James.1065 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." They then proceed to make the following changes: 1. remove foot in the grave from the game 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Did you read more than the necro patch notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 ^ basically, Every class got nerfed so leaving necro as it was would mean Necro being way too strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Guys necro is already the walking ping pong ball of the game. You can't admit the profession has a weakness of low stability, and then proceed to cut it back further while increasing hard CC across the board and then increase the necro CD to the stun breaks At least leave it the same CD. Reducing the necros availability to stability while increasing thier CD on stun breaks while at the same time increasing every professions hard CC is like a 3xnerf on a class known to already suck at staying on its feet - and ANET call it a "buff" How is that making balance!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity.6304 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Their argumentation doesn’t make sense. OP is correct. It’s not about the nerf as such, it is about the balance team saying they take our stability and buff our stunbreaks instead - what they didn’t do. They nerfed them. At least in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 You do understand that when many classes are having their stunbreak CD's nearly doubled, a measly 5s increase is relatively a buff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > You do understand that when many classes are having their stunbreak CD's nearly doubled, a measly 5s increase is relatively a buff? Mate, have you ever tried playing a necro? It is already suffering with the current state of CC, lack of stability and long CD's on stun breaks. In what reality do you exsist that this increased CD is a "buff"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > You do understand that when many classes are having their stunbreak CD's nearly doubled, a measly 5s increase is relatively a buff? No, That's simply not a "buff" which ever twisted way you want to word it or look at it. Buff - make (an element in a role-playing or video game) more powerful. Adding a longer CD on it isn't "buffing" a single thing at the very least rework the ability or make it do something more with what it's already able to do. Do not simply say "we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately" and proceed to just add a slightly longer cd lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > You do understand that when many classes are having their stunbreak CD's nearly doubled, a measly 5s increase is relatively a buff? > > No, That's simply not a "buff" which ever twisted way you want to word it or look at it. > > Buff - make (an element in a role-playing or video game) more powerful. > > Adding a longer CD on it isn't "buffing" a single thing at the very least rework the ability or make it do something more with what it's already able to do. Do not simply say "we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately" and proceed to just add a slightly longer cd lol. It's a buff to the class. Not to the skill. If everyone else gets nerfed 30%, and you get nerfed 10%, then the overall effect on the class is a buff. This is basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Think about it the other way. If everyone else's stunbreaks CDs were reduced to 1 second, and necros stunbreaks CD's were reduced to 20s, would you be sat there going "hey we got buffed, yaay". No. No you would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Push the patch, then if necros continue to get ping pong balled you can give them more access to stunbreaks. With damage coefficients coming down across the board and ccs being nuked, LF is indirectly being buffed. Eternal life gives you more of it. It looks bad for necro on paper but they could turn out to actually soak a lot of damage now. If not, then fine reduce stunbreak cds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Think a lot of necro mains are underestimating how tanky some necro builds are about to become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 It's just Necro Mains don't read the entire patch notes apart from the necro side so they don't actually understand what is happening to the other 8 professions compared to Necro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"James.1065" said: > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates Without context, these might seem bad. However if you read the entirety of the patch notes, defenses/stunbreaks on other classes were hit harder, and CC damage is basicly nullified, which means any CC heavy build coming in to stunlock you will only tickle when the next patch hits. If you trait defensively, and take a vitality/thoughness amulet, your necro will be an absolute tank, being able to trade blows with literally anything(as long as you don't get ganked). Read the whole thing again and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 There are definitely a few errors in the print of the patch for sure like moa stance- reducing from 66% to 20%, where I should say from 33% to 20% unless they mean there’s some extra synergy with beast mode which there isn’t. I think we all know what they mean in those cases. > @"James.1065" said: > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates You have a good point are they increasing cd and if so is this really a buff? They said they would decrease so maybe it’s just a typographical error, we’ll have to see. IMO hopefully necro is the fastest and strongest class in pvp after this patch hits, LUL jk it probably won’t be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 There are a lot of core design decisions that are flawed for multiple classes (my opinion) do not expect these to ever be fixed in this game. Resource systems, health pools, access to certain boons, stealth, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 where were u when necromancer is kil i was watching thief streams and eating dorito when phone ring "necromancer is kil" "no" All jokes aside, death shroud will have more value (in tanking) post patch. They probably nerfed stability for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > There are definitely a few errors in the print of the patch for sure like moa stance- reducing from 66% to 20%, where I should say from 33% to 20% unless they mean there’s some extra synergy with beast mode which there isn’t. I think we all know what they mean in those cases. > > @"James.1065" said: > > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates > > You have a good point are they increasing cd and if so is this really a buff? They said they would decrease so maybe it’s just a typographical error, we’ll have to see. They said they would buff it in the global notes. I.e the notes that pertain to PvE. If you read those you can clearly see they did buff them in that mode. They got nerfed here..like pretty much every other stun break in the game based off the PvP notes. The OP is trying to call them out for doing exactly what they said by using another game modes notes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > There are definitely a few errors in the print of the patch for sure like moa stance- reducing from 66% to 20%, where I should say from 33% to 20% unless they mean there’s some extra synergy with beast mode which there isn’t. I think we all know what they mean in those cases. > > > @"James.1065" said: > > > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > > > > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > > > > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > > > > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > > > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > > > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > > > > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > > > > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates > > > > You have a good point are they increasing cd and if so is this really a buff? They said they would decrease so maybe it’s just a typographical error, we’ll have to see. > > They said they would buff it in the global notes. I.e the notes that pertain to PvE. If you read those you can clearly see they did buff them in that mode. They got nerfed here..like pretty much every other stun break in the game based off the PvP notes. > > The OP is trying to call them out for doing exactly what they said by using another game modes notes.. > > Have you ever heard a necro in pve complain of this lack of stability? EVER!? Go play a few hours of necro yourself and then read 80% of pvp necro comments and you will quickly realise as Anet even mention themselves it's a profession light on stability and mobility. That means in pvp, necro in the current state is already below average. That means to make balance you don't cut off more acess to stability and increase CD of stun breaks for the necro, especaily when increasing all the hard CC of all professions. To make balance at the very least shave the stability and leave the stun break CD alone,while reducing other professions to the same level of stun break and stability of a necro. Essentially what has happened is that all professions have moved the same amount of stun breaks backward, so necro is relatively speaking in the same spot as it was before the patch, but with less stability. So it's actually a huge nerf while Anet calls it a buff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > ^ basically, Every class got nerfed so leaving necro as it was would mean Necro being way too strong Other classes might have been over performing and needed a nerf. Just to get to the necro level Sorry but in no game mode ever was necro considered king or even average with mobility and stability. Everyone including Anet knows it's light on stability, but what do they do? Take thr game mode where the most CC is thrown out and increase hard CC even more, shave off more necro access to stability and increase thier CD on stun break. You can read all the patch notes you want of every profession you want, it still does not justify this poor "balance" decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"James.1065" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > There are definitely a few errors in the print of the patch for sure like moa stance- reducing from 66% to 20%, where I should say from 33% to 20% unless they mean there’s some extra synergy with beast mode which there isn’t. I think we all know what they mean in those cases. > > > > @"James.1065" said: > > > > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > > > > > > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > > > > > > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > > > > > > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > > > > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > > > > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > > > > > > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > > > > > > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates > > > > > > You have a good point are they increasing cd and if so is this really a buff? They said they would decrease so maybe it’s just a typographical error, we’ll have to see. > > > > They said they would buff it in the global notes. I.e the notes that pertain to PvE. If you read those you can clearly see they did buff them in that mode. They got nerfed here..like pretty much every other stun break in the game based off the PvP notes. > > > > The OP is trying to call them out for doing exactly what they said by using another game modes notes.. > > > > > > Have you ever heard a necro in pve complain of this lack of stability? EVER!? > > Go play a few hours of necro yourself and then read 80% of pvp necro comments and you will quickly realise as Anet even mention themselves it's a profession light on stability and mobility. > > That means in pvp, necro in the current state is already below average. That means to make balance you don't cut off more acess to stability and increase CD of stun breaks for the necro, especaily when increasing all the hard CC of all professions. > > To make balance at the very least shave the stability and leave the stun break CD alone,while reducing other professions to the same level of stun break and stability of a necro. > > Essentially what has happened is that all professions have moved the same amount of stun breaks backward, so necro is relatively speaking in the same spot as it was before the patch, but with less stability. So it's actually a huge nerf while Anet calls it a buff! Dude, just stop, its embarrasing. They said it themselves in the patch notes; necro is SUPPOSED to have less stab/stunbreak than other classes, and is compensated for it by having by far the highest health-pool, and more boon/condi control than any other class. You might as well argue that necro should have the same access to teleports as mesmer, the same access to blocks as guardian, and the same access to evades as thief........ that's the whole point of having different classes with different play-styles. Things have different strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"James.1065" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > There are definitely a few errors in the print of the patch for sure like moa stance- reducing from 66% to 20%, where I should say from 33% to 20% unless they mean there’s some extra synergy with beast mode which there isn’t. I think we all know what they mean in those cases. > > > > > @"James.1065" said: > > > > > In thier own words on the wiki page Anet state: > > > > > > > > > > "Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response." > > > > > > > > > > They then proceed to make the following changes: > > > > > > > > > > 1. remove foot in the grave from the game > > > > > 2. Increase spectral walk CD by 10 sec in pvp > > > > > 3. Increase spectral armour CD by 5 sec in pvp > > > > > > > > > > Is this a joke or an over sight? I mean pvp is the game mode that requires the shorter CD on the stun breaks. Why on earth is pve recieveing a decrease in CD OF These skills, while pvp they increase it!? > > > > > > > > > > Come on guys, think about what you are doing before you make these updates > > > > > > > > You have a good point are they increasing cd and if so is this really a buff? They said they would decrease so maybe it’s just a typographical error, we’ll have to see. > > > > > > They said they would buff it in the global notes. I.e the notes that pertain to PvE. If you read those you can clearly see they did buff them in that mode. They got nerfed here..like pretty much every other stun break in the game based off the PvP notes. > > > > > > The OP is trying to call them out for doing exactly what they said by using another game modes notes.. > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever heard a necro in pve complain of this lack of stability? EVER!? > > > > Go play a few hours of necro yourself and then read 80% of pvp necro comments and you will quickly realise as Anet even mention themselves it's a profession light on stability and mobility. > > > > That means in pvp, necro in the current state is already below average. That means to make balance you don't cut off more acess to stability and increase CD of stun breaks for the necro, especaily when increasing all the hard CC of all professions. > > > > To make balance at the very least shave the stability and leave the stun break CD alone,while reducing other professions to the same level of stun break and stability of a necro. > > > > Essentially what has happened is that all professions have moved the same amount of stun breaks backward, so necro is relatively speaking in the same spot as it was before the patch, but with less stability. So it's actually a huge nerf while Anet calls it a buff! > > Dude, just stop, its embarrasing. > > They said it themselves in the patch notes; necro is SUPPOSED to have less stab/stunbreak than other classes, and is compensated for it by having by far the highest health-pool, and more boon/condi control than any other class. > > You might as well argue that necro should have the same access to teleports as mesmer, the same access to blocks as guardian, and the same access to evades as thief........ that's the whole point of having different classes with different play-styles. Things have different strengths and weaknesses. > > The aurguement is that they are making an existing problem worse. Not balancing it. It is not that hard to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"James.1065" said: > Have you ever heard a necro in pve complain of this lack of stability? EVER!? I must admit that I did complain about stability in PvE for the necromancer when they replaced _Plague_ (transformation) by _Plagueland_. Because of visibility, I used _Plague_ over the horrendous and hideous_Lich form_ (which change your point of view, give a feeling of being slow as hell and, above all, have no feet!) to cross a part of the jumping puzzle in Metrica province (which happen to be a thin rope with nasty gust of wind throwing your character down the rope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > Dude, just stop, its embarrasing. > > They said it themselves in the patch notes; necro is SUPPOSED to have less stab/stunbreak than other classes, and is compensated for it by having by far the highest health-pool, and more boon/condi control than any other class. > Well, you have a point, however to make thing fair why not make hard CC pass throught blocks. Those are not "stability" yet they still negate CC afterall doing the job of stability. The simple fact that necromancer don't have access to blocks effectively give them less way to counter CC. From what I could see the skills that block (outside the semi invincibility skills) or give aegis didn't get nerfed. Like people like to say, you have to take everything into account and aegis/blocks are not much different than stability when facing hard CC yet they come out of the patch in a surprisingly almost untouched state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"James.1065" said: > > Have you ever heard a necro in pve complain of this lack of stability? EVER!? > > I must admit that I did complain about stability in PvE for the necromancer when they replaced _Plague_ (transformation) by _Plagueland_. Because of visibility, I used _Plague_ over the horrendous and hideous_Lich form_ (which change your point of view, give a feeling of being slow as hell and, above all, have no feet!) to cross a part of the jumping puzzle in Metrica province (which happen to be a thin rope with nasty gust of wind throwing your character down the rope). Great, I am glad for you and your pve buff. The point is the buff this buff fixes a problem necro has in all game modes, yet they offer the solution only in pve, while in my opinion this fix is needed more in pvp actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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