Solution to stealth

[felix.2386]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

>

> what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?

> here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balanced

> balance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.

> you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

>

> here is fun note for you.

> chess are unbalanced.

> yes you heard it right.

> white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.

> someone always has advantage no matter how trivial

 

by simply giving both players the ability to play as white, of course, give everybody stealth/teleport, like in LoL, #teleportforeveryone!

[szeng.1267]

I would rather have stealth consume 10 endurance per second(really only 5 or less since players gain 5 per second which can be increased with vigor, food, and traits). No more stealth spamming. You actually have to decide if you want to stack up 10s of stealth and lose 50 endurance or is 3s enough and only lose 15 endurance.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Just gets tiring every second post is nerf stealth etc etc so just wish somthing would change to at least slow down all the constant complaint threads on stealth lol. It's literally rehashing the same thing over and over as it's all been said.

[Dralor.3701]

This is not a good fix for stealth, in wvw you could just port anytime you got the alert if you were worried about being ganked. It would also be ridiculously easier to find a mesmer hiding in a keep.

 

Would be a lazy “fix” IMO.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> This is not a good fix for stealth, in wvw you could just port anytime you got the alert if you were worried about being ganked. It would also be ridiculously easier to find a mesmer hiding in a keep.

>

> Would be a lazy “fix” IMO.

 

There's a reason this is in the PVP sub.

[Dralor.3701]

Okay. It’s still a bad idea and would dumb down the game mode.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

didn't damage just get nerfed? whats the point crying about stealth? and in pvp no less lol. hardly an issue compared to wvw.

 

edit

i'm not necessarily against the idea just seems to me people are bringing up stealth a lot recently.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> didn't damage just get nerfed? whats the point crying about stealth? and in pvp no less lol. hardly an issue compared to wvw.

>

> edit

> i'm not necessarily against the idea just seems to me people are bringing up stealth a lot recently.

 

Every 2 weeks. There are these 3 people who alternate making these "delete stealth" posts every 2 weeks. Balance or viability is not even taken into consideration, they just throw in some random idea to weaken/destroy stealth.

I wonder if they stop after the patch, as thief oneshots will be literally impossible with the damage nerfs on stealth burst skills.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"lighter.2708" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

> >

> > what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?

> > here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balanced

> > balance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.

> > you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

> >

> > here is fun note for you.

> > chess are unbalanced.

> > yes you heard it right.

> > white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.

> > someone always has advantage no matter how trivial

>

> by simply giving both players the ability to play as white, of course, give everybody stealth/teleport, like in LoL, #teleportforeveryone!

 

its not like that.

immagine both parties have the same boards in chess, white goes first ( uses stealth to open up ).

but white has to use utility, immagine giving up a pawn to be white. then white would lose on average more games.

 

as for everyone having stealth, i 100% guarantee you, that mesmer is one of the classes that makes the least use of stealth.

if stealth was give to any other class it would be abused WAY more. all mesmer can use stealth for is more around and, charge mantra ( if its used ) use healing skill, and hide animation of 1 ability.

can you immagine what FB would do with stealth? you drop him low after 30s of 1v2. he stealths, heals to full. gains every boon in the game, unstealths.

now I have 3s invuln that refreshes all the tomes, im full hp with every boon in the game. I also recharged 2 mantras. Fight me.

[Poledra Val.1490]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"lighter.2708" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

> > >

> > > what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?

> > > here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balanced

> > > balance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.

> > > you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

> > >

> > > here is fun note for you.

> > > chess are unbalanced.

> > > yes you heard it right.

> > > white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.

> > > someone always has advantage no matter how trivial

> >

> > by simply giving both players the ability to play as white, of course, give everybody stealth/teleport, like in LoL, #teleportforeveryone!

>

> its not like that.

> immagine both parties have the same boards in chess, white goes first ( uses stealth to open up ).

> but white has to use utility, immagine giving up a pawn to be white. then white would lose on average more games.

>

> as for everyone having stealth, i 100% guarantee you, that mesmer is one of the classes that makes the least use of stealth.

> if stealth was give to any other class it would be abused WAY more. all mesmer can use stealth for is more around and, charge mantra ( if its used ) use healing skill, and hide animation of 1 ability.

> can you immagine what FB would do with stealth? you drop him low after 30s of 1v2. he stealths, heals to full. gains every boon in the game, unstealths.

> now I have 3s invuln that refreshes all the tomes, im full hp with every boon in the game. I also recharged 2 mantras. Fight me.

 

Mesmer makes the least use out of stealth you say? I firmly disagree, you only just have to look at the one shot mesmer build coming out of stealth to realize that your wrong and if the mesmer is in a pinch it just restealths (on demand almost) and ports halfway across the map. Resets themsleves before you can take a sip of your drink.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"lighter.2708" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

> > > >

> > > > what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?

> > > > here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balanced

> > > > balance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.

> > > > you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

> > > >

> > > > here is fun note for you.

> > > > chess are unbalanced.

> > > > yes you heard it right.

> > > > white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.

> > > > someone always has advantage no matter how trivial

> > >

> > > by simply giving both players the ability to play as white, of course, give everybody stealth/teleport, like in LoL, #teleportforeveryone!

> >

> > its not like that.

> > immagine both parties have the same boards in chess, white goes first ( uses stealth to open up ).

> > but white has to use utility, immagine giving up a pawn to be white. then white would lose on average more games.

> >

> > as for everyone having stealth, i 100% guarantee you, that mesmer is one of the classes that makes the least use of stealth.

> > if stealth was give to any other class it would be abused WAY more. all mesmer can use stealth for is more around and, charge mantra ( if its used ) use healing skill, and hide animation of 1 ability.

> > can you immagine what FB would do with stealth? you drop him low after 30s of 1v2. he stealths, heals to full. gains every boon in the game, unstealths.

> > now I have 3s invuln that refreshes all the tomes, im full hp with every boon in the game. I also recharged 2 mantras. Fight me.

>

> Mesmer makes the least use out of stealth you say? I firmly disagree, you only just have to look at the one shot mesmer build coming out of stealth to realize that your wrong and if the mesmer is in a pinch it just restealths (on demand almost) and ports halfway across the map. Resets themsleves before you can take a sip of your drink.

 

I worded in poorly, what I ment to say is that mesmer getting 10s stealth benefits from it less then warrior getting 10s stealth.

is that clearer ?

[Poledra Val.1490]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"lighter.2708" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > > Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

> > > > >

> > > > > what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?

> > > > > here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balanced

> > > > > balance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.

> > > > > you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

> > > > >

> > > > > here is fun note for you.

> > > > > chess are unbalanced.

> > > > > yes you heard it right.

> > > > > white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.

> > > > > someone always has advantage no matter how trivial

> > > >

> > > > by simply giving both players the ability to play as white, of course, give everybody stealth/teleport, like in LoL, #teleportforeveryone!

> > >

> > > its not like that.

> > > immagine both parties have the same boards in chess, white goes first ( uses stealth to open up ).

> > > but white has to use utility, immagine giving up a pawn to be white. then white would lose on average more games.

> > >

> > > as for everyone having stealth, i 100% guarantee you, that mesmer is one of the classes that makes the least use of stealth.

> > > if stealth was give to any other class it would be abused WAY more. all mesmer can use stealth for is more around and, charge mantra ( if its used ) use healing skill, and hide animation of 1 ability.

> > > can you immagine what FB would do with stealth? you drop him low after 30s of 1v2. he stealths, heals to full. gains every boon in the game, unstealths.

> > > now I have 3s invuln that refreshes all the tomes, im full hp with every boon in the game. I also recharged 2 mantras. Fight me.

> >

> > Mesmer makes the least use out of stealth you say? I firmly disagree, you only just have to look at the one shot mesmer build coming out of stealth to realize that your wrong and if the mesmer is in a pinch it just restealths (on demand almost) and ports halfway across the map. Resets themsleves before you can take a sip of your drink.

>

> I worded in poorly, what I ment to say is that mesmer getting 10s stealth benefits from it less then warrior getting 10s stealth.

> is that clearer ?

 

Honestly I think mesmer gets huge benefits from stealth if you look at its core mechanics and how its traits are synergized. It is also no coincidence that Mesmer as a whole has arguably been the most broken class in over half decade in gw2 pvp. Mesmer in general has just a plethora of tools to keep it alive and stealth on demand is one of those and yes it benefits hugely from quite possibly strongest mechanic in pvp currently. Thief also benefits from this scenario in huge ways to naturally.

[Aza.2105]

They should just introduce more skills that have reveal debuff on them. And buff ones that are underwhelming like light's purification. A big change to that would be making the base duration higher and stack in duration. Currently its a 1 second duration and doesn't stack in duration. That would be a big change to have more stealth counter play.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> Okay. It’s still a bad idea and would dumb down the game mode

 

I've seen this idea in another game with Conquest, that's why I posted it. It worked pretty well, and also offered increased movement speed. All attacks on someone with stealth automatically revealed them.

 

Please provide why it's a bad idea, I am looking for criticism.

[Shao.7236]

Adding a small channel of ¾ to stealth attacks that provides a reveal upon the start is a better idea, because it's possible to react with something, any powerful attack from the very start should.

 

You may wonder why ¾ and not ½, the answer is lag. It's the only proper way to do it and get rid of instant cast that requires impossible actions to perform.

[Dralor.3701]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > Okay. It’s still a bad idea and would dumb down the game mode

>

> I've seen this idea in another game with Conquest, that's why I posted it. It worked pretty well, and also offered increased movement speed. All attacks on someone with stealth automatically revealed them.

>

> Please provide why it's a bad idea, I am looking for criticism.

 

I think it would take away some of the need for map awareness and communication. Instead of worrying about a mia call just have to look for the icon.

[Ghostof Luzifer.6159]

I would suggest to rather either add more reveal mechanics over all classes or rework stealth so that the stealthed player becomes increasingly visible the further he moves away from his stealth up location. The oneshots from stealth are imo only a problem since players can travel across the map in stealth and oneshot you without you seeing it coming. If you know that there is a thief/oneshot mes etc around its allready much more difficult to oneshot you.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Why not "nerf" stealth only as an escape tool, like, all classes that have stealth, can just use it in front of everyone and disengage easily, without any way to be countered.

 

You can make it like those Mordren/Frogs who go invisible, but if you have the mastery you can still see their form, make it so, if someone goes invisible in front of you, you see their outline so you can follow and punish him, if a player wants to have true invisibility while in combat, they would need to hide or break LoS first, it would make players think more before going insivisible, and not just using and going away 100% safe.

The other one i tought is to reduce insivisible time by half if you stealth in front of your opponent, like he's more aware of his surroundings and will detect you faster, so like in the above suggestion, you wanna disengage with stealth, you have to think a safe course of action first, or your opponent have a better chance of punishing you,

 

Don't see much of a problem in it being used as an attack tool tbh, it's PvP, you should be aware at all times.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Stealth is cloak, think predator. Moving while clocked used small amount of endurance and reveals u when depleted. Standing still gives full invisibility and slowly recharges endurance. Give thief a few skills that grant full invisiblity while moving for 3 sec. Think this would solve a lot of issues complainers have. Also makes a otherwise mobile class have to play far slower if true invisibility is wanted. They already have the cloaked look implemented when freindly's see invisibile aly's