Rickster.8752 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. Ideas: - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > Ideas: > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed > > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. **+10** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > Ideas: > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth make it -50% at least, like in other mmorpgs where stealth isnt so op (and no reveal-cleansing for deadeyes lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Aoe direct damage (not conditions) should remove stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > > > Ideas: > > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > > make it -50% at least, like in other mmorpgs where stealth isnt so op > (and no reveal-cleansing for deadeyes lol) > I think 30% movement AND just 50% lower endurance gain would be good. Could just make endurance never recharge in stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I assume you support the redesigns necessary to support any of these changes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 people have made suggestions about stealth since 2012, they have just given up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Just make the person like transparent but untargetable while stealthed, maybe reduce the damage they take as compensation. That way they're always visible and the same mechanics still apply like Aoe is good, skill tracking still exists, but you cant get suprised by somone coming out of the nothingness anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primatos.5413 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 My problem with stealth is only.. there is little to no chance of removing some classes out of an object like keep or tower. Should not work this way. Imo mark invisible in objects after maybe 5 mins and give us a way to catch uncatchable inside objects or just spawn port them. End. Unfortunately lot of players like to do clowny things with this mechanic which are extremely unfun to handle and have no counterplay... how does this fit with competitive gameplay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > Just make the person like transparent but untargetable while stealthed, maybe reduce the damage they take as compensation. That way they're always visible and the same mechanics still apply like Aoe is good, skill tracking still exists, but you cant get suprised by somone coming out of the nothingness anymore Good idea. That also solves the super lame thing of having to stay close till a thief pops up on the map, which again has no counter play. So much about the thief class just lacks counter play in conquest honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > Just make the person like transparent but untargetable while stealthed, maybe reduce the damage they take as compensation. That way they're always visible and the same mechanics still apply like Aoe is good, skill tracking still exists, but you cant get suprised by somone coming out of the nothingness anymore > > Good idea. That also solves the super lame thing of having to stay close till a thief pops up on the map, which again has no counter play. So much about the thief class just lacks counter play in conquest honestly. It's just the simplest easiest change that I think has chance of getting used. Nothing fundamentally changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > I assume you support the redesigns necessary to support any of these changes as well. This. Do you really think ANET has the resources or motivation to completely rework classes with stealth access to compensate for a change/removal of stealth? Not gonna happen lol. We can argue that it SHOULD happen, but it's not going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > I assume you support the redesigns necessary to support any of these changes as well. > > This. Do you really think ANET has the resources or motivation to completely rework classes with stealth access to compensate for a change/removal of stealth? Not gonna happen lol. We can argue that it SHOULD happen, but it's not going to. Thief would still be fine if they didn't regain endurance in stealth or are slightly slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution.5409 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Is there anything you don't call OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 As always, people try to nerf the wrong thing about stealth. Your changes mostly kill the already severely *underperforming* in-combat stealth. There would basically no reason to ever use shadow arts or any stealth ever again, except *exactly* for stealth one-shots. Which are the bleeding problem in the first place. The problem with stealth is out of combat stealth. Because while stealth has counterplay (and quite a lot of it), that counterplay only works if you know that there is a stealth character around you, and roughly where they are (aka, in-combat stealth). If you didnt even know the Mesmer was there before you get blown up, well, not much you could have done. What stealth needs is nerfs to its out of combat state, but *buffs* to its in-combat state (in particular for thief, as Mesmers clones actually cover up some of the big weaknesses for stealth). The easiest solution is probably capping stealth duration at 5 seconds or so, while making you move inherently faster in stealth (And probably revert some of the SA changes that nerfed in-combat stealth but buffed out of combat stealth). Maybe make stealth also drop channeled skills and skills fired after gaining stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > @"Madisonlee.9641" said: > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > I assume you support the redesigns necessary to support any of these changes as well. > > > > This. Do you really think ANET has the resources or motivation to completely rework classes with stealth access to compensate for a change/removal of stealth? Not gonna happen lol. We can argue that it SHOULD happen, but it's not going to. > > Thief would still be fine if they didn't regain endurance in stealth or are slightly slower. Course they would, stealth is only used out of combat, and moving slightly slower out of combat isnt a big deal. Itd kill in-combat stealth completely, but in-combat stealth is already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotte in space.2158 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them ^This would do the job. Stealth has to change and it will change ! Question is just when ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 They need to stop the "stealth at start and get a 1 shot" because it ruins the game. Something needs to be done. I like the idea of people in stealth being visible but not target-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > Ideas: > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed > > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. You're calling OP **anything which is a threat to your necro main**....along with condi rev, you're extremely oppressive ...let's no forget that, that nerfs will still come the necro and rev way after everything is said and done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trixantea.1230 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 World of Warcraft actually handles stealth mechanics better than GW2. I don't ask to copy/paste WoW's stealth but they could make stealth remove/prevent boons, reduce healing and movement speed while stealthed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"trixantea.1230" said: > World of Warcraft actually handles stealth mechanics better than GW2. I don't ask to copy/paste WoW's stealth but they could make stealth remove/prevent boons, reduce healing and movement speed while stealthed. It *really* doesnt. WoWs stealth is basically the same permastealth oneshot cheese, except without the need to use smokefields and reveal your presence every 10 seconds. And once again, all your suggestions destroy the already weak in-combat stealth, while leaving the problem, *out of combat* stealth, completely untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 We went a good 3 weeks without a "dElETe sTeAlTh" thread guys! This is a record high, last time we got this much of a downtime since the deadeye rework! > @"Rickster.8752" said: > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. Here is your tradeoff: you have to invest in skills/traits to maintain it, losing damage potential for your burst. Also cannot contest/defend points. > Ideas: > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) The game literally has traits going the opposite way. Also there are no more stealth 1-shots. Even on the lowest base health classes, equip an amulet with any vitality on it and no opener can kill you. > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds I'm starting to think you're just trolling and I got baited hard. > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them I'm just going to leave this here... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed You cannot be serious. Please tell me I got baited, noone who played this game for more then 20 minutes can type something like this with a straight face.... RIGHT? > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. Stealth counter: reveal. General cleave/channeled skills still hit targets in stealth. On the off chance you're not trolling, I'd advise to go try the stealth heavy classes before wanting to balance them. (Ranger, mesmer and thief) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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