a plea for 3rd expac

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> There's a way to breathe life into the game without Especs.

>

> Additional Specialization Traitlines.

>

> Traitlines already have a tradeoff for existing, being that if they are used, another useful traitline isn't being used.

>

> Unlike Especs, they shouldn't dramatically alter the playstyle or Profession mechanic to the point where the whole trade-off fiasco has to repeat again.

> A new traitline with a new base weapon would honestly be healthier for the game overall because many professions have essentially "dead", "weird", "clunky" weapons that desperately need a good offhand or mainhand compliment.

 

All you are suggesting is to add the same thing an an elite spec but without the change in class mechanic.

 

Your post reads balance problems but do you know how many balance problems a new base weapon would cause ?

 

You also say trade off fiasco but that was only the case because the specs were poorly designed from the start. With the change in balance paradigm and specs all having tradeoffs the new ones, which we know will be in an expac....come.on....its like one of THE main selling points, will be better designed from the start so you won't have people complaining about tradeoffs because they got used to their spec mechanic just being base class +.

 

[Teratus.2859]

The main thing i'm hoping for with Elite Specs is that they feel very foreign and different to what we've had with the past ones.

Most of the current specs are in some way an extention of the core classes but ultimately feel similar enough to still say yea this is a variant of this class etc.

 

I want the Canthan batch to feel almost like totally new classes to fit with that foreign and almost alien experience it'll be like returning to Cantha.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

I'm on board _IF_ this balance team stays.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

 

> All you are suggesting is to add the same thing an an elite spec but without the change in class mechanic.

>

> Your post reads balance problems but do you know how many balance problems a new base weapon would cause ?

>

> You also say trade off fiasco but that was only the case because the specs were poorly designed from the start. With the change in balance paradigm and specs all having tradeoffs the new ones, which we know will be in an expac....come.on....its like one of THE main selling points, will be better designed from the start so you won't have people complaining about tradeoffs because they got used to their spec mechanic just being base class +.

 

I think traits are significantly easier to balance over Elite Specs, because Elite specs are more or less an entire Profession alotgehter.

 

Holosmith for example, plays nothing like a traditional Engineer.

Deadeye as well, plays nothing like a traditional Thief before Deadeye was a thing.

 

I just felt maybe they could make more Specializations to enhance already existing gameplay without being as game-changing as an Elite Spec.

When one thinks Elite Spec, one related to things like MORE, NEW, STRONGER, BETTER.

I feel like that probably let to alot of Power creep, as evidenced with PoF Especs vs HoT Especs.

 

As for weapons : I think weapon balance is pretty decent right now.

I do not think a single weapon in this game right now is obnoxiously or unhealthily designed.

 

The only thing is remotely obnoxious is Thief D/P set stealth spam, but the problem doesn't lie in the weapons, but Thief's Ini mechanic.

 

 

[Avatar.3568]

HAMMER RANGER

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> HAMMER RANGER

 

Rifle ranger

[bravan.3876]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

>

> It's a guarantee that:

> 1.) You will buy the xpac

> 2.) Still not use the Canthan Mesmer elite spec

> 3.) Feel personally attacked when they rein in said elite spec anyway

 

There is a big difference between rein in and dumbing down and adding clunkyness or even butcher skilled and not op playstyles on a spec for the sake of one op playstyle they could balance out way easier and without deleting skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. They reined in the spec a lot pre patch with several nerfs already, the one dodge change is a useless killer not even solving the problems on the one op playstyle. Just lets add a f5 to core Mesmer before next xpac release so for the next time we talk about elite spec trade offs we can deal with Mesmers as we did with Engi: Replacing pre buffed core f5 with some elite mechanic and call it a trade off day.

If i would be a Mesmer main i would hardly think about buying an expansion for certain, sometimes it is easier to not have something at all instead enjoying something what then just get destroyed in such a nonsense, unlogical and most of all unnecessary way contradicting base mechanics of classes or specs, showing the lack of class knowledge from miles away. Feeling pranked is nothing i would pay for either.

 

Just to not be missunderstood: I am not asking for a Holo or Scrapper trade off, i am not saying Condimirage was fine and didn't need nerfs, i am only refering to the inconsistence in Anets trade off agenda and the unfair treatment between different specs and also refer to how useless and wrong the one dodge change for Mirage is.

 

Aside from that said: Me like new xpac and new elites. But Anet should rly rethink their selling policy. Always ruin old elites with added clunkyness and overnerfs and killing gameplay flow and skill ceiling to then just sell new op specs is not rly the best way. Most ppl would buy the new xpac/ elite specs for the sake of having more diversity, there is no need to create a buy to win aspect to new elites to sell more by making old elites/ core less attractive to play.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

> >

> > It's a guarantee that:

> > 1.) You will buy the xpac

> > 2.) Still not use the Canthan Mesmer elite spec

> > 3.) Feel personally attacked when they rein in said elite spec anyway

>

> There is a big difference between rein in and dumbing down and adding clunkyness or even butcher skilled and not op playstyles on a spec for the sake of one op playstyle they could balance out way easier and without deleting skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. They reined in the spec a lot pre patch with several nerfs already, the one dodge change is a useless killer not even solving the problems on the one op playstyle. Just lets add a f5 to core Mesmer before next xpac release so for the next time we talk about elite spec trade offs we can deal with Mesmers as we did with Engi: Replacing pre buffed core f5 with some elite mechanic and call it a trade off day.

> If i would be a Mesmer main i would hardly think about buying an expansion for certain, sometimes it is easier to not have something at all instead enjoying something what then just get destroyed in such a nonsense, unlogical and most of all unnecessary way contradicting base mechanics of classes or specs, showing the lack of class knowledge from miles away. Feeling pranked is nothing i would pay for either.

>

> Just to not be missunderstood: I am not asking for a Holo or Scrapper trade off, i am not saying Condimirage was fine and didn't need nerfs, i am only refering to the inconsistence in Anets trade off agenda and the unfair treatment between different specs and also refer to how useless and wrong the one dodge change for Mirage is.

>

> Aside from that said: Me like new xpac and new elites.

 

I don't think they'll gut a new mesmer elite spec, they've learned their lesson.

New mesmer elite spec will be trash at release. B)

[bravan.3876]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

> > >

> > > It's a guarantee that:

> > > 1.) You will buy the xpac

> > > 2.) Still not use the Canthan Mesmer elite spec

> > > 3.) Feel personally attacked when they rein in said elite spec anyway

> >

> > There is a big difference between rein in and dumbing down and adding clunkyness or even butcher skilled and not op playstyles on a spec for the sake of one op playstyle they could balance out way easier and without deleting skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. They reined in the spec a lot pre patch with several nerfs already, the one dodge change is a useless killer not even solving the problems on the one op playstyle. Just lets add a f5 to core Mesmer before next xpac release so for the next time we talk about elite spec trade offs we can deal with Mesmers as we did with Engi: Replacing pre buffed core f5 with some elite mechanic and call it a trade off day.

> > If i would be a Mesmer main i would hardly think about buying an expansion for certain, sometimes it is easier to not have something at all instead enjoying something what then just get destroyed in such a nonsense, unlogical and most of all unnecessary way contradicting base mechanics of classes or specs, showing the lack of class knowledge from miles away. Feeling pranked is nothing i would pay for either.

> >

> > Just to not be missunderstood: I am not asking for a Holo or Scrapper trade off, i am not saying Condimirage was fine and didn't need nerfs, i am only refering to the inconsistence in Anets trade off agenda and the unfair treatment between different specs and also refer to how useless and wrong the one dodge change for Mirage is.

> >

> > Aside from that said: Me like new xpac and new elites.

>

> I don't think they'll gut a new mesmer elite spec, they've learned their lesson.

> New mesmer elite spec will be trash at release. B)

 

Would be more fair at least or not? You at least know what you are buying then right from start and can decide. Other ppl who think, that paying for an espec that will have one op playstyle for 2 years and carry them for that duration worth the money, might disagree here. They do not care that the whole spec including all skillful and not op playstyles get butchered for the sake of the op one they abused.

 

I just feel sry for every not fotm Mesmer player did the effort to play something skillful and not carrying on that class/spec and get kicked in the face several times a day by undeserved hate from other players losing to something they should beat easy with their builds and undeserved nerfs from Anet directed at the one op build the not fotm Mesmers didn't even touch himself for some misplaced honor and hardmode reasons. I know why i do not play non meta, i don't see any good reason by being less carried then everyone else, while most of the ppl who win by build then do not even give you credit and instead just develop a false ego about the won by build result. Better just kick them with their own cancer they are carried on and then let them cry for good reasons at least^^

 

Btw if i remember right most ppl called Mirage trash after beta and after PoF release, while i was sure from the first moment i saw that overloaded condi spec that it will be completely op when ppl finally get used to it and play it with the Mirage mechanic (IH/ambushes) on Condi.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer **will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow**.

 

**+1**

there will absolutely be no hesitation for me; i will not be buying the expac especially because of that including many other repetitive continual unlearned unresolved factors

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > > I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

> > > >

> > > > It's a guarantee that:

> > > > 1.) You will buy the xpac

> > > > 2.) Still not use the Canthan Mesmer elite spec

> > > > 3.) Feel personally attacked when they rein in said elite spec anyway

> > >

> > > There is a big difference between rein in and dumbing down and adding clunkyness or even butcher skilled and not op playstyles on a spec for the sake of one op playstyle they could balance out way easier and without deleting skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. They reined in the spec a lot pre patch with several nerfs already, the one dodge change is a useless killer not even solving the problems on the one op playstyle. Just lets add a f5 to core Mesmer before next xpac release so for the next time we talk about elite spec trade offs we can deal with Mesmers as we did with Engi: Replacing pre buffed core f5 with some elite mechanic and call it a trade off day.

> > > If i would be a Mesmer main i would hardly think about buying an expansion for certain, sometimes it is easier to not have something at all instead enjoying something what then just get destroyed in such a nonsense, unlogical and most of all unnecessary way contradicting base mechanics of classes or specs, showing the lack of class knowledge from miles away. Feeling pranked is nothing i would pay for either.

> > >

> > > Just to not be missunderstood: I am not asking for a Holo or Scrapper trade off, i am not saying Condimirage was fine and didn't need nerfs, i am only refering to the inconsistence in Anets trade off agenda and the unfair treatment between different specs and also refer to how useless and wrong the one dodge change for Mirage is.

> > >

> > > Aside from that said: Me like new xpac and new elites.

> >

> > I don't think they'll gut a new mesmer elite spec, they've learned their lesson.

> > New mesmer elite spec will be trash at release. B)

>

> Would be more fair at least or not? You at least know what you are buying then right from start and can decide. Other ppl who think, that paying for an espec that will have one op playstyle for 2 years and carry them for that duration worth the money, might disagree here. They do not care that the whole spec including all skillful and not op playstyles get butchered for the sake of the op one they abused.

>

> I just feel sry for every not fotm Mesmer player did the effort to play something skillful and not carrying on that class/spec and get kicked in the face several times a day by undeserved hate from other players losing to something they should beat easy with their builds and undeserved nerfs from Anet directed at the one op build the not fotm Mesmers didn't even touch himself for some misplaced honor and hardmode reasons. I know why i do not play non meta, i don't see any good reason by being less carried then everyone else, while most of the ppl who win by build then do not even give you credit and instead just develop a false ego about the won by build result. Better just kick them with their own cancer they are carried on and then let them cry for good reasons at least^^

>

> Btw if i remember right most ppl called Mirage trash after beta and after PoF release, while i was sure from the first moment i saw that overloaded condi spec that it will be completely op when ppl finally get used to it and play it with the Mirage mechanic (IH/ambushes) on Condi.

 

Regarding the last part, yes, most players (even non mesmers) voted mirage as being the trashiest elite after beta.

There were several issues some which are now on game again, mc being 0.75sec being one of the them, axe being clunky (still is, axe 3 fails easily) ,etc.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Cool looks asian themed, hope warrior gets a samurai pole arm spec is so.

> >

> > Exactly what I was thinking lol.

> >

> > Thief can get ninja and mesmer can get... naruto? idk maybe like hand fan :p

>

> Thief will get assassin (shadow form for perma invulnerability) and mesmer will get ~~moa form~~ nerfed.

 

I doubt thief would get Assassin, thief itself is already a spiritual successor to assassin. And uh, we dont need *another* +1 spec for thief. Id rather have something that can actually 1v1, or something that does cool support stuff.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > > > I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a guarantee that:

> > > > > 1.) You will buy the xpac

> > > > > 2.) Still not use the Canthan Mesmer elite spec

> > > > > 3.) Feel personally attacked when they rein in said elite spec anyway

> > > >

> > > > There is a big difference between rein in and dumbing down and adding clunkyness or even butcher skilled and not op playstyles on a spec for the sake of one op playstyle they could balance out way easier and without deleting skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. They reined in the spec a lot pre patch with several nerfs already, the one dodge change is a useless killer not even solving the problems on the one op playstyle. Just lets add a f5 to core Mesmer before next xpac release so for the next time we talk about elite spec trade offs we can deal with Mesmers as we did with Engi: Replacing pre buffed core f5 with some elite mechanic and call it a trade off day.

> > > > If i would be a Mesmer main i would hardly think about buying an expansion for certain, sometimes it is easier to not have something at all instead enjoying something what then just get destroyed in such a nonsense, unlogical and most of all unnecessary way contradicting base mechanics of classes or specs, showing the lack of class knowledge from miles away. Feeling pranked is nothing i would pay for either.

> > > >

> > > > Just to not be missunderstood: I am not asking for a Holo or Scrapper trade off, i am not saying Condimirage was fine and didn't need nerfs, i am only refering to the inconsistence in Anets trade off agenda and the unfair treatment between different specs and also refer to how useless and wrong the one dodge change for Mirage is.

> > > >

> > > > Aside from that said: Me like new xpac and new elites.

> > >

> > > I don't think they'll gut a new mesmer elite spec, they've learned their lesson.

> > > New mesmer elite spec will be trash at release. B)

> >

> > Would be more fair at least or not? You at least know what you are buying then right from start and can decide. Other ppl who think, that paying for an espec that will have one op playstyle for 2 years and carry them for that duration worth the money, might disagree here. They do not care that the whole spec including all skillful and not op playstyles get butchered for the sake of the op one they abused.

> >

> > I just feel sry for every not fotm Mesmer player did the effort to play something skillful and not carrying on that class/spec and get kicked in the face several times a day by undeserved hate from other players losing to something they should beat easy with their builds and undeserved nerfs from Anet directed at the one op build the not fotm Mesmers didn't even touch himself for some misplaced honor and hardmode reasons. I know why i do not play non meta, i don't see any good reason by being less carried then everyone else, while most of the ppl who win by build then do not even give you credit and instead just develop a false ego about the won by build result. Better just kick them with their own cancer they are carried on and then let them cry for good reasons at least^^

> >

> > Btw if i remember right most ppl called Mirage trash after beta and after PoF release, while i was sure from the first moment i saw that overloaded condi spec that it will be completely op when ppl finally get used to it and play it with the Mirage mechanic (IH/ambushes) on Condi.

>

> Regarding the last part, yes, most players (even non mesmers) voted mirage as being the trashiest elite after beta.

> There were several issues some which are now on game again, mc being 0.75sec being one of the them, axe being clunky (still is, axe 3 fails easily) ,etc.

 

Tbh that was a nerf to MC i totally agreed with.

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Cool looks asian themed, hope warrior gets a samurai pole arm spec is so.

>

> Exactly what I was thinking lol.

>

> Thief can get ninja and mesmer can get... naruto? idk maybe like hand fan :p

 

With the next expansion Thief will get the ability to throw shuriken for over 9000. Mesmer will gain the ability to Naruto Run... that's it. What, were you expecting more?

[Alin.2468]

I do not want, nor need, another expansion. Let's not create hype, as we already know what will happen and what we'll get.

[MyPuppy.8970]

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> Give Ele Longbow!

 

Just this, please. I've been saving skins for this day.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

oh yeah, I almost forgot:

teef should come pre nerfed.

[Ovark.2514]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I will hesitate to buy a new expac. Mesmer will get another nice spec that will be nerfed to trash tier after sales slow.

 

Man mesmer mains never get old. Mesmer is literally a class built to be op. By DEFAULT, mesmer gets 2 dmg skills, 1 hard CC, and an up-to 4s of Invulnerability that can be activated in the middle of other skills and while CCd. Anet must have decided that, since mesmer is one of the most unique classes to their game they would make it stronger than the rest baseline. Don't worry mesmer man, the new expac will definitely have a broken spec for you. It's taken, what, 3 years to reign in the last strong elite spec?

[Ovark.2514]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-to-spring-summer-and-the-future/

>

> anet pls don't make op elite specs that break competitive modes again.

> also: AWESOME.

>

> edit

> please for the love of god don't release any more especs with offhands. main hand/ 2 handed is the way to go! it has way more impact on play style and is generally way more enjoyable of a thing to play around with.

 

Only exception to weapon skills is thief since it will get more build options with an offhand instead of mainhand.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Tbh that was a nerf to MC i totally agreed with.

 

I would too if not for a bunch of stuff, ambushes cast time and movement distance were not adjusted and it was released too late when people had already developed muscle memory.

[apharma.3741]

I agree, sounds awesome, pls don't bring in overpowered elite specs.

 

What I want from an elite spec: It gives my class a role it doesn't already have. It doesn't matter if it's a niche and generally just average outside of that niche where it's good.

 

An example: We have 3 clear support elite specs, Druid, Firebrand and Tempest however they're all competing for the same role.

 

Druid is a quick rotating targeted healer/cleanser (not much AoE healing) then it has it's niche.

Firebrand is more of a boon/ability support, it doesn't gain extra healing outside of it's base weapons/traits, still slow, it has a niche.

Tempest is an AoE healer/cleanser but slower to bring out the support, probably drop some boons, this gives it a niche.

 

Tempest will be better when we have team fights going on, FB might be better for comps with better self sustain, Druid will be better for faster and more mobile comps with lots of rotation.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > Tbh that was a nerf to MC i totally agreed with.

>

> I would too if not for a bunch of stuff, ambushes cast time and movement distance were not adjusted and it was released too late when people had already developed muscle memory.

 

But that is exactly the point of longer casttime than dodge duration, that ambushes have counterplay by making ambushes interruptable (including on clones, also gives a little window of possibility to cleave clones before they finished the whole ambush). Shorter movement distance is also something makes sense as some form of trade off. That do not contradict the whole mechanic and dumb it down even. So i was ok with that too, i was also ok with nerfing the vigor in Mirage traitline. That all made sense for adjusting a very strong instant dodge feature without destroying all skill ceiling of the spec.

While the one dodge change itself is completely unlogical nonsense (yes i have to stack both words to describe how bad and clueless this change is) in every aspect and they did it AFTER all the other nerfs which balanced out MC ALREADY (including the inherent costs the spec had since PoF release). That just makes it double nonsense.

 

After all the nerfs to MC and the whole Mirage spec pre patch already, all they needed to do was to nerf ONLY Condimirage by nerfing condi clone dmg (normal autoattacks and clone ambushes) or better rework Condi ambushes totally to be more about effects/ utility (comparable with sword ambush) and not dmg. And then give some condi dmg back to shatters. Then we would have a not op Condimirage spec that needs more skill to be played. Sometimes life can be so easy but it seems Anet prefer unnecessary changes with higher costs in skill ceiling/ tactical deepness/ mechanical complexity and more clunkyness and unlogical changes not even solving any issues over senseful changes rly solving the issues of Condimirage at the roots.

[uberkingkong.8041]

> @"Starbreaker.6507" said:

> The game needs something because quite frankly the newest iterations of "living world" have been complete snooze-fests.

>

> Having said that though, they have a terrible balance track record since the first expansion and I shudder to think what adding another elite spec into the mix would do.

 

Needs guild wars.

Right now theres hardly any reason to make a guild in PvP, that actually functions as a guild. A guild that just thats just there so people can find other PvP'ers isnt really a guild, its just another LFG function because maybe the current isnt that great?

Maybe have a function active players, and it lists active players and show their player information.

 

A player finder that you dont have to be proactive on would would eliminate need to make filler LFG pvp guilds and if you don't want to be bothered just turn it off.

 

**New expansion should have better player finder, and pvp wise should have Guild Wars.**

[Avatar.3568]

> @"Alin.2468" said:

> I do not want, nor need, another expansion. Let's not create hype, as we already know what will happen and what we'll get.

 

Powercreep let's goo

[mortrialus.3062]

I care more about elite specs providing interesting, ambitious changes towards game play styles and class niches and capabilities than being perfectly balanced or even underperforming right out the gate.

 

Whether you choose to accept it, as bumpy as elite specs have been for balance and power creep if we lived in a world where all of the HoT and PoF elite specs were awful and never worth taking compared to just running core specs the game-mode would be in a far, far worse situation due to the terminal level of staleness. Like imagine where League of Legends or Magic the Gathering would be if they never released new champions/cards after the initial sets.