Cantha and the tengu.

[coso.9173]

One thing in favor of new races, is that arenanet has said no to them, like they said no to mounts and a 3rd expac, and here we are now xD

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > You can keep downplaying the effort/costs associated with adding a new playable race but Anet has already stated several times that it’s unlikely for those reasons. They’re clearly in a better position to know what it would take to implement something like this than you. The best you’ll probably get is a combat tonic.

> > >

> > > Also, tengu wouldn’t make sense to be in Cantha as a playable race or anything else for that matter.

> >

> > 1. They know the way to cantha and we do not, they could lead us there and the opening or seg-way into the canthan storyline is going to the dominion of winds. Because we are called there due to the tengu wishing to return to their homeland; They have seen our deeds and know we can help them with this and humbly ask us to help them go home. Maybe more over they didn't get everyone out and they are worried for their kin, due to the growing tensions to non humans over there~

>

> Everyone knows where Cantha is. The Tengu, who have isolated themselves, now suddenly want humans to help them go back to Cantha where other humans had exiled them? That’s a bit of a stretch and also something unlikely to happen.

>

> > 2. And you mean like they were with mounts? Oh!! OH !! what about living world being equal to expansions, both of these turned out false and both of them have become something of a meme. They've said numerous times voice acting is simple. They have also been proven to use a program which makes the armor work with the models, so no its not a monumental effort. They can do it; Its a matter of if they want to put in the effort as the domain in which their game resides has steep competition from other games who give a TON More with their expansions than A-net has with Gw2 and it would be a good way to pull in new people, old people and draw a ton of attention to the product.

> >

>

> Mounts were different. It wasn’t about the cost.

>

> Living world is the equivalent to expansions *IF* they had included features from previous expansions such as elite specs. Content-wise, they’re nearly identical. Another thing that I left off is that unlike expansions where Anet received money from everyone that accesses that content and features, the LW content is generally “free” for all active players as it’s subsidized by the gem store.

>

> Please provide a source to your claims about the voice acting and ease of doing the armor.

>

> > You can keep playing up the effort of a minor task that I've seen ONE person work on in other games and get out with minimal effort. You could also try and push the narrative "Id rather them put the resources elsewhere." But thats how I feel and felt about raids, oh those are dead as a doornail now aren't they? Looks like we have plenty of resources to go around perhaps? Hmm. It also would break up the basic and tired/boring human lore which honestly I and many others couldn't be bothered to care about..

>

> Not all games are created the same. What may be easy to do in one game may not be as easy in another or even possible for that matter. It’s been well known how much of a mess Anet’s coding is and how much effort they’ve had to make for something that should have been simple.

>

>

 

They talked about how voice acting wasn't necessarily hard outside of scheduling durring S4 when we took the fight to Kralk and we got a new voice actor for the female charr, proof its not hard to do voice acting nor are they affraid to replace people should the need arise. The armor thing was something That_Shaman and a few others showcased a long, long time ago prior to HoT. They showed how the armors merely just splashed onto the model, and even showed the new tengu models with customization that FAR exceeds any non-player race. Going as far as to showcase the model is an altered version of the charrs, with the same exact areas that armor can clip onto and grab thus giving them an appearance. After viewing it themselves they stated they might look better than charr, because the reason charr have so many issues is because of their hunched back and posture. The tengu are like an up-right version of their model and thus lack those issues.

 

I mean they said no to a 3rd expansion, and mounts as stated above.... And yet here we are so anything is possible.

[Blur.3465]

Honestly, they can do Tengu with Charr model/skeleton and just change posture.

WoW did that with many races, for example.

Allied races in WoW:

Vulpera (a whole new race) using a Goblin Skeleton/rig

Zandalari Trolls using Night Elf model

Nightborne using Night Elf model

...and sooooo on.

 

...and realistically, WoW has a TON more armor sets, they sorted that problem with using same models and just changing and altering the posture a bit for the new races.

Exception being Vulpera with helmets and Kul Tiran humans which are a totally new model.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > You can keep downplaying the effort/costs associated with adding a new playable race but Anet has already stated several times that it’s unlikely for those reasons. They’re clearly in a better position to know what it would take to implement something like this than you. The best you’ll probably get is a combat tonic.

> > > >

> > > > Also, tengu wouldn’t make sense to be in Cantha as a playable race or anything else for that matter.

> > >

> > > 1. They know the way to cantha and we do not, they could lead us there and the opening or seg-way into the canthan storyline is going to the dominion of winds. Because we are called there due to the tengu wishing to return to their homeland; They have seen our deeds and know we can help them with this and humbly ask us to help them go home. Maybe more over they didn't get everyone out and they are worried for their kin, due to the growing tensions to non humans over there~

> >

> > Everyone knows where Cantha is. The Tengu, who have isolated themselves, now suddenly want humans to help them go back to Cantha where other humans had exiled them? That’s a bit of a stretch and also something unlikely to happen.

> >

> > > 2. And you mean like they were with mounts? Oh!! OH !! what about living world being equal to expansions, both of these turned out false and both of them have become something of a meme. They've said numerous times voice acting is simple. They have also been proven to use a program which makes the armor work with the models, so no its not a monumental effort. They can do it; Its a matter of if they want to put in the effort as the domain in which their game resides has steep competition from other games who give a TON More with their expansions than A-net has with Gw2 and it would be a good way to pull in new people, old people and draw a ton of attention to the product.

> > >

> >

> > Mounts were different. It wasn’t about the cost.

> >

> > Living world is the equivalent to expansions *IF* they had included features from previous expansions such as elite specs. Content-wise, they’re nearly identical. Another thing that I left off is that unlike expansions where Anet received money from everyone that accesses that content and features, the LW content is generally “free” for all active players as it’s subsidized by the gem store.

> >

> > Please provide a source to your claims about the voice acting and ease of doing the armor.

> >

> > > You can keep playing up the effort of a minor task that I've seen ONE person work on in other games and get out with minimal effort. You could also try and push the narrative "Id rather them put the resources elsewhere." But thats how I feel and felt about raids, oh those are dead as a doornail now aren't they? Looks like we have plenty of resources to go around perhaps? Hmm. It also would break up the basic and tired/boring human lore which honestly I and many others couldn't be bothered to care about..

> >

> > Not all games are created the same. What may be easy to do in one game may not be as easy in another or even possible for that matter. It’s been well known how much of a mess Anet’s coding is and how much effort they’ve had to make for something that should have been simple.

> >

> >

>

> They talked about how voice acting wasn't necessarily hard outside of scheduling durring S4 when we took the fight to Kralk and we got a new voice actor for the female charr, proof its not hard to do voice acting nor are they affraid to replace people should the need arise.

 

That’s different from an entirely new race with its own set of voice actors. Very much different from simply replacing an existing voice actor with another.

 

> The armor thing was something That_Shaman and a few others showcased a long, long time ago prior to HoT. They showed how the armors merely just splashed onto the model, and even showed the new tengu models with customization that FAR exceeds any non-player race. Going as far as to showcase the model is an altered version of the charrs, with the same exact areas that armor can clip onto and grab thus giving them an appearance. After viewing it themselves they stated they might look better than charr, because the reason charr have so many issues is because of their hunched back and posture. The tengu are like an up-right version of their model and thus lack those issues.

>

 

Tengu could very well have their own unique issues. Anet had commented about why a new race wouldn’t work in a post within the last year or two. Chances are what your saw before HoT was deemed not viable.

 

> I mean they said no to a 3rd expansion, and mounts as stated above.... And yet here we are so anything is possible.

 

It wasn’t a hard no though. There’s a difference between saying “no this will not be in the game” versus “ “no we don’t have any plans to have this in the game”. Using your argument, one could say that any possible thing that a player could ever want Anet to do would be possible. One could argue that Anet could add a purchasable unlock for all achievements on the basis of “well they said no to mounts and expansions but here we are”.

[rylien.3824]

Every thing in its time is anyway : we shall see what the time will be for its announcement.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Blur.3465" said:

> Honestly, they can do Tengu with Charr model/skeleton and just change posture.

... that's literally what they are today. Well except it's the same posture.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

Caledon Forest is gonna be packed this expansion (assuming we go to the Dominion of Winds)

[Kanok.3027]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> Caledon Forest is gonna be packed this expansion (assuming we go to the Dominion of Winds)

 

I hope we do and I agree. Those maps surrounding Dominion of Winds are gonna be VERY popular, although I would also like to see what became of Claw Island since it's close to it...

[moonstarmac.4603]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> If you're truly taking us to cantha in the far flung future.... could you please make the tengu playable. It would be the perfect place for them; I know it probably wont happen as it seems anything I want goes that way. (Rip my norn expansion, with elite specs and so on themed around it.) But I felt like it would be good to bring it up now that the winds of cantha are blowing strong, and you seem to be aiming that way.

>

> As a long time player Id love to experience tyria as one of them, and learn of them. Plus they'd look cool next to everyone else in our roster of player characters~

 

You must not have read 'Movement of the World' then. Usoku drove out all sentient non-human races, ie: Tengu and Dredge. He also crushed the Luxons and Kurzicks to unite Cantha.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > > Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Who knows.

> > > > >

> > > > > Knowing full well it wont be the cantha I remember and love, there is only one reason Id ever submit myself to more human lore drizzled all over everything. And that would be if they gave us tengu, im sorry my expectations are that it would be playable. That it will be a kitten haven and that EVERYTHING will have anime references everywhere with nothing of the original cantha to be seen. Im not excited as much as I am dissapointed, knowing this saga will be rushed to finality the race I play now will get next to nothing (I doubt norn will get any focus this saga. Seems charr are the real focus.) So I mean all this did was give me a small inkling of hope friend, I know im foolish to hope as time and again the prove to me im not the demographic they make the game for anymore. But Ill savor the hope while I have it, Im not sure how much more disappointments I can handle with this game anymore.

> > > >

> > > > It can only truly be a disappointment if you continue to set unrealistic expectations for it. While yes it would probably be nice to see new races, I just don't think its a feasible endeavor to embark upon just for the sake of adding a new race. There is a **lot** that needs to go into that and their time and effort is better spent on actual gameplay elements to keep the game going. It doesn't really have to do with them not catering to "your" demographic and I, at least personally, believe that its just not a realistic expectation to have for them going into any expansion. Like I said, the amount of time and effort needed for that is **a lot**. So it really doesn't have to do with a different demographic.

> > >

> > > It really isn't that difficult, you can keep saying it is but I've watched and seen for myself what it would entail. The armor is put into a program that snaps it to the portions of their model that it can link too which is why charr have so many issues. I doubt they hand craft everything for each race, because pardon my french if they did than they clearly aren't good with charr or norn and it would make sense as to why they were ignored most of the time. Tengu and Charr share the same model and the only difference is the posture really, so Tengu are there and are done. They had a face lift in HoT, and it was because they were going to be playable and the reasoning they gave as to why they decided against it is because tengu and rev's coming out at the same time almost assured there would be nothing but tengu revenants..

> > >

> > > My expectations are low, so low I expect play-ability and that might be a stretch. I've learned to really look at games as "What gimmick are you going to try and use, to push your money milking scheme?" Why wont races happen? Simple. Can't be milked like mounts or gliders, that is why we won't see it and honestly Im over the human centric kitten. So if it comes out and isn't too my taste or it didn't manage to inspire me to be interested that will be on them, but I know full well it wont be the cantha I want and will be some weird anime thing. (Id be surprised if it was still imperial china/fedual japan in theme.) And all the armor will only really look good on humans again, so no my expectations are as low as they can be. But I can still want and hope, The game has been a disappointment for years to me and as it goes the reason I get on are the friends I've made not for my own personal goals or machinations. They failed to make me care in PoF, The last time I cared was HoT which in my opinion was the best content release (Content wise) they had ever done. Story has gotten better over time but it just... I don't know I don't really play mmo's for a story, it never works out and if I wanted story id go play Witcher 3... or dragon age origins or any other number of single player game.

> > >

> > > Part me however thinks... they might just be doing this as the "Oh kitten, in case of X break glass." And this will be the "Legion" that was to WoW to guild wars 2 which means they could pull out all the stops. Honestly they kind of have too... They've burned their player base so many times that Id be surprised if they held back and did a PoF that it would go over well.. (PoF was a mess at launch even worse than HoT because at least HoT was fun. The PoF maps were boring, large and empty with bounties kind of just being bleh..) Kind of one and done maps, with no reason to return to them due the HoT maps still having legendary crafting accessible through them and almost required to be done for said crafting.

> > >

> > > You might not want, see or believe its possible.. I know it is and I know it wouldn't take them as much time as everyone claims or even as much work. They themselves said voice acting is neither that expensive or time consuming, and the model is basically done it just needs sprucing in the hair and face department but they data-mined tons of heads and accessories back durring HoT. Hell this thing has Idle animations just like the player races, and they had the voice of Illidan for the male PC they only needed the female PC. Seems close to shipping ready to me hoss~

> >

> > It isn't just about the armor sets and animations.

> >

> > They would need a starting zone, their own personal story, racial skills, voice actors for the player characters themselves. None of those things are cheap or simple, nor are they already done.

> >

> > The starting zone alone would mean either adapting an existing area for it or developing an entirely new one, as well as creating a story to justify their presence and for it to fit within existing canon and tooling dialogue, missions, and such for it.

> >

> > They would also need to create their racial story from level 2 to 30+, multiple variations mind you, so as to be on par with the personal stories of the existing races as their decisions during character creation determine what takes place in them.

> >

> > Then from level 40 to 60+ they would need to create another whole new set of stories considering the timeline where the three orders (Priory, Vigil, Order of Whispers) have already been formed into the Pact.

> >

> > Then from level 60 to 80 this is a similar endeavor as this section of the personal story involved the Pact a well as the fall of Zhaitan at the end.

> >

> > It isn't some small undertaking and you can't neglect the effort that would need to go into it so that anyone who does want to play Tengu gets the effort put into their implementation that many would expect is due. Retconning existing lore into having the Tengu just being there from the beginning would defeat the purpose and just create a lot of unnecessary confusion.

> >

> > You might not care terribly about the lore factor in regards to something like this but it is still a factor and one that would not be ignored were they ever to go about adding a new playable race. Like I said, its a much bigger thing than you might want to acknowledge.

>

> Look they don't need a personal story I can break this down and make it work, make it work properly and make it work with LESS effort than people are asking for while retaining what it is people are asking for.

> * They get an instanced ten level starting zone, within the dominion which showcases what has happened durring the time we have been galabanting around doing things. The commander falls in this saga and we somehow had ended up tied to them; This way we step into current events and simply are the commander. OR we forego the starting zone and just say we were one of the tengu who joined the pact; So you can go through the original arc (I have no clue why you'd want too.... the base games story is trash.)

> * Make you start at level 70, you must have a level 80 on your account so you can make tengu.

>

>

> And thats it, that is all you have to do. The lore!?!? LMFAO the lore of this game is a joke my friend, it pays no respect to established lore and merely does whatever is cool and needs to be done. We haven't had the dev's or the company respect their lore since this game came out; All this because the roleplayers want to have their character remain the same as everyone else. Which is 100% the problem and the fact that this is being used to hinder the development of cool things that would refresh the gameplay of core zones? This is the same tired arguement that is thrown out everytime a new race is brought up; This is the same tired arguement that has been debunked numerous times because we can just have them SKIP all of the original story as they were not there. You could even have the commander die at any point, we did die with balthazar we could insert our tengu there where they stepped up to fill those shoes. We could die to bangar due to the blow with the bow; And they could step in there and become the new commander. There are so many ways to make this work; We don't need a new starting zone, we don't need a 1 through 80 personal story we just need them to make it make sense.

>

> Revenants are STILL not cannon outside of rytlock, so if you were a revenant in the prior arcs you're not cannon at all. Because he is the first revenant, they didn't care about the lore then and they didn't care about the lore when they turned balthazar evil. They didn't care about the lore when they introduced and killed vlast for NO REASON and they don't care about the lore now. There has never been a circumstance where they have cared about the lore at such a level it would hinder people from doing something in game, or obtaining something. non-humans using god power through the flame sword sohothin? Makes no sense. A charr becoming a shining blade? Makes no sense. Trahern dying to sate the rabid hate he had garnered for the SAKE of sating it and not for a worthwhile arc's close? Makes no sense.

>

> So please I am a lore nerd, I love the lore of this world PRIOR to guild wars 2. But the sequel has done everything in its power to destroy established lore, heck even its own lore with stuff such as Asgeir and jormag. Jormag just let him go and it wasn't him punching his tooth out of his face and yeeting it down to hoelbrak, it was jormag giving it basically too him. Or the fact that it wasn't svanir pulling on the power and willingly succumbing for power, it was drakkar corrupting his mind and yadda yadda. No one is bad and everyone is redeemable, our villians are beyond god level threats and we are now expected to believe a charr with a magic bow.... Managed to bring us low? Us? Who has fought gods and monsters far beyond this charr, us who has more experience and battle prowess and wears LEGENDARY gear. Sure. Lore. Makes sense.... I guess... maybe.... wait... nevermind.

>

> Tengu can happen, they should happen. I know they probs wont but I mean it would be a nice give for the fan-base. We have three humanoid races and two bestial races... one more bestial would even it out and be great.

 

I never said that it "couldn't" happen, I said that with the amount of effort that would need to be put into it, regardless of how much you want to downplay it and how much **you** don't think the lore needs to be considered, that it just isn't a feasible endeavor to undertake for an expansion **especially** at this point in time when content is the most important thing that they should be focusing on going forward.

 

I understand your personal feelings, I understand you would love to play the Tengu as a race and your beliefs on how it could be implemented with minimal time and effort...but that simply doesn't seem like the reality at this point due to the several reasons I pointed out in my previous post. This topic has been brought up before both of the previous expansions released, the reasons as to **why** they aren't likely to do it have been stated each time and I understand the vehemence to not simply take that as fact, because I also understand that when people want something badly enough they will make any kind of argument they can to justify the "why" and the "how". I understand you want to hold out hope that it will happen, maybe it will and maybe ANet will prove me and many others wrong and roll up with it as a surprise feature of the next expansion *however* it just doesn't seem like its a very realistic expectation, or hope, considering everything that has already been said on the topic.

 

And just to clarify...I have nothing against them adding another playable race. I think that'd be great, but it just does not look like it is something that is in the cards both based on things they have said in the past and the kind of effort that would need to be expended to do so. It is most certainly not just a one person job based on how ANet themselves would likely prefer to implement a new race were they to ever do so. This might be an MMORPG but ANet has historically implemented mechanics paired with lore. Even WvW has lore associated with it, not a lot, but it has justification *in the lore* (regardless of your feelings on how good or bad the lore is), so you can't expect them to just ignore that because you, and maybe others, aren't willing to accept the reality of the circumstances.

 

Also "they *should* happen". I mean I personally think ANet *should* remove downstate, I think ANet *should* rework how reviving works, I think ANet *should* do a lot of things. Neither you or I get to make those decisions for them, nor does that mean what either of us, or some others, think they *should* do would be the best course of action, or feasibly executed. For example, I do think ANet *should* remove downstate and rework revive mechanics, **however** I completely recognize that doing that simply isn't a realistic or feasible approach to resolving the issues I see that downstate has currently in the game (mostly to do with PvP/WvW). Obviously there are some exceptions to this but a compromise or general consensus has been arrived at in regards to those things, like recently the attempts to resolve the power creep issues in PvP/WvW and their work to make the game balance better, which that is still a work in progress.

 

All I have suggested to you, and others, was to be realistic and not to set expectations for something like them adding a new playable race with the expansion. Hope all you want, sure, but don't get your hopes up. Be realistic.

[Dante.1763]

tbh the only way ill be happy with Cantha is if they add the tengu, and Ritualists as a class. Ill buy it regardless, but i wont be happy about going back.

[lothefallen.7081]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

>

> You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

>

> If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

>

> Who knows.

 

Remember, this game is monetized mostly by cosmetics so ArenaNet really doesn't have to design content in the same way that a sub game like woW has to just to keep people logged in playing for as long as possible. It actually makes a lot of sense for ArenaNet to invest into the fashion wars endgame by making a new race to market cosmetics for in the cash shop. You have to think about their monetization structure -- they are going to build features and systems that help them sell cosmetics to excited customers. And playable Tengu is exciting because Avian races are not really common in MMOs plus GW lore potential for the race means many, many different possibilities for story-telling.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"lothefallen.7081" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

> >

> > You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

> >

> > If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

> >

> > Who knows.

>

> Remember, this game is monetized mostly by cosmetics so ArenaNet really doesn't have to design content in the same way that a sub game like woW has to just to keep people logged in playing for as long as possible. It actually makes a lot of sense for ArenaNet to invest into the fashion wars endgame by **making a new race to market cosmetics for in the cash shop**. You have to think about their monetization structure -- they are going to build features and systems that help them sell cosmetics to excited customers. And playable Tengu is exciting because Avian races are not really common in MMOs plus GW lore potential for the race means many, many different possibilities for story-telling.

 

Why? They don’t market anything in the gem store today that can’t be used by any other race.

 

You can also do pretty much the same storytelling of Tengu without needing the player to be one. All that people miss out on is if they want to RP.

[Reincarnatie.7254]

Tenguuuu~!!!

 

The only reason to buy any more character slots--for me, anyway--is for a new race! Three more soldiers for the FashionWars!!

 

Even though we're going to Cantha (another human-lore land), I'm excited for playable-Tengu because the Dominion of Winds has been locked off FOR SO LONG (and ANet's feather-game has improved so much T_T).

 

We'll probably also run in to more Tengu in the Woodland Cascades when the Charr take us there for the next part of the Saga.

I hope I'm done making Xiuquatl by then...

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"lothefallen.7081" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

> >

> > You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

> >

> > If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

> >

> > Who knows.

>

> Remember, this game is monetized mostly by cosmetics so ArenaNet really doesn't have to design content in the same way that a sub game like woW has to just to keep people logged in playing for as long as possible. It actually makes a lot of sense for ArenaNet to invest into the fashion wars endgame by making a new race to market cosmetics for in the cash shop. You have to think about their monetization structure -- they are going to build features and systems that help them sell cosmetics to excited customers. And playable Tengu is exciting because Avian races are not really common in MMOs plus GW lore potential for the race means many, many different possibilities for story-telling.

 

Sure, but all recent posts from the devs themselves, like on the main site, indicate their intention to focus on content for the game. What has been hurting them more is their lack of focus on actual content, which has lead to less skin sales because people will only log in to play the actual content, complete it, then log off and with what we have been given for a while now that content tends to get completed within like...a day...*maybe* slightly more.

 

You can't sell skins to people who aren't even logged in, or bothering to log in, when they release new skins.

 

Also as was just said by Ayrilana, it isn't like they market anything in the gem store that can't be used by any other race.

 

Like I said, I understand the desire for a new race...but it just doesn't seem like its something feasibly within the cards right now. Also **again** like I said, when people want something bad enough they will come up with any and all reasons as to the "why" it "*should*" be added and "how" it "*should*" be added.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Reincarnatie.7254" said:

> Tenguuuu~!!!

>

> The only reason to buy any more character slots--for me, anyway--is for a new race! Three more soldiers for the FashionWars!!

>

> Even though we're going to Cantha (another human-lore land), I'm excited for playable-Tengu because the Dominion of Winds has been locked off FOR SO LONG (and ANet's feather-game has improved so much T_T).

>

> We'll probably also run in to more Tengu in the Woodland Cascades when the Charr take us there for the next part of the Saga.

> I hope I'm done making Xiuquatl by then...

 

Lets be clear here...playable Tengu is nowhere near confirmed as a thing. People are just speculating, and hoping, do not set them actually being playable as an expectation for the expansion.

[Opal.9324]

I get the feeling this isn't going to happen, but I'd love it if it did. Seems like bird people in every MMO that has them are only ever allowed to be NPCs or monsters. As a bird lover, this makes me really sad.

[Ayakaru.6583]

While it would be a precedent to add Tengu to the story, it would still mean that the Tengu cannot be playable in the pre-cantha story, and would in all future content require unique dialogue because they can't be the dragons watch leader, either.

What you'd probably end up with is a Tengu NPC joining the player, and from the player perspective being a Tengu joining a group of NPCs

[Lonami.2987]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> They would need to retroactively place tengu in all of necessary historic events. Otherwise tengu commander would make no sense.

>

> Thing is that storyline of Commander is very specific and very personal so it would take alot of work for a tengu commander to make sense.

 

Just make the commander step down at the end of LW5, giving us a fresh start. Then don't allow the new playable races to play the old story.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> While it would be a precedent to add Tengu to the story, it would still mean that the Tengu cannot be playable in the pre-cantha story, and would in all future content require unique dialogue because they can't be the dragons watch leader, either.

> What you'd probably end up with is a Tengu NPC joining the player, and from the player perspective being a Tengu joining a group of NPCs

 

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > They would need to retroactively place tengu in all of necessary historic events. Otherwise tengu commander would make no sense.

> >

> > Thing is that storyline of Commander is very specific and very personal so it would take alot of work for a tengu commander to make sense.

>

> Just make the commander step down at the end of LW5, giving us a fresh start. Then don't allow the new playable races to play the old story.

 

 

Or they could do something like they did in GW1. "You are viewing past events and playing this story through someone elses eyes" kinda thing. So you would play through the pact story and all that from the point -after- a faction is chosen.

 

Youd still have a level 1-20? or was it 1-10 personal story for fresh characters, but the choices you made would only affect those options, when you hit the point of chosing a faction thats it. You pick, the missions start, you get that message, all NPCs in game treat the pact commander as a Sylvari or Human all the way up the end of the Zhaitan story. After that it doesnt matter your race.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > > > Don't get any unsubstantiated expectations for something like this, though.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You might want it, but if they don't actually make the Tengu playable don't let your misplaced expectations dictate your reactions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If they add them, cool, sure, whatever. However I highly doubt we will be getting a new playable race out of the next expansion. There is an unreasonable amount of work that would need to go into that, which I know has been rehashed over and over again whenever this topic has arisen and with how content dead PoF ended up being and how persistently starved for content people have been ever since I don't think devoting the amount of time needed for a new race would be the best approach.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Who knows.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Knowing full well it wont be the cantha I remember and love, there is only one reason Id ever submit myself to more human lore drizzled all over everything. And that would be if they gave us tengu, im sorry my expectations are that it would be playable. That it will be a kitten haven and that EVERYTHING will have anime references everywhere with nothing of the original cantha to be seen. Im not excited as much as I am dissapointed, knowing this saga will be rushed to finality the race I play now will get next to nothing (I doubt norn will get any focus this saga. Seems charr are the real focus.) So I mean all this did was give me a small inkling of hope friend, I know im foolish to hope as time and again the prove to me im not the demographic they make the game for anymore. But Ill savor the hope while I have it, Im not sure how much more disappointments I can handle with this game anymore.

> > > > >

> > > > > It can only truly be a disappointment if you continue to set unrealistic expectations for it. While yes it would probably be nice to see new races, I just don't think its a feasible endeavor to embark upon just for the sake of adding a new race. There is a **lot** that needs to go into that and their time and effort is better spent on actual gameplay elements to keep the game going. It doesn't really have to do with them not catering to "your" demographic and I, at least personally, believe that its just not a realistic expectation to have for them going into any expansion. Like I said, the amount of time and effort needed for that is **a lot**. So it really doesn't have to do with a different demographic.

> > > >

> > > > It really isn't that difficult, you can keep saying it is but I've watched and seen for myself what it would entail. The armor is put into a program that snaps it to the portions of their model that it can link too which is why charr have so many issues. I doubt they hand craft everything for each race, because pardon my french if they did than they clearly aren't good with charr or norn and it would make sense as to why they were ignored most of the time. Tengu and Charr share the same model and the only difference is the posture really, so Tengu are there and are done. They had a face lift in HoT, and it was because they were going to be playable and the reasoning they gave as to why they decided against it is because tengu and rev's coming out at the same time almost assured there would be nothing but tengu revenants..

> > > >

> > > > My expectations are low, so low I expect play-ability and that might be a stretch. I've learned to really look at games as "What gimmick are you going to try and use, to push your money milking scheme?" Why wont races happen? Simple. Can't be milked like mounts or gliders, that is why we won't see it and honestly Im over the human centric kitten. So if it comes out and isn't too my taste or it didn't manage to inspire me to be interested that will be on them, but I know full well it wont be the cantha I want and will be some weird anime thing. (Id be surprised if it was still imperial china/fedual japan in theme.) And all the armor will only really look good on humans again, so no my expectations are as low as they can be. But I can still want and hope, The game has been a disappointment for years to me and as it goes the reason I get on are the friends I've made not for my own personal goals or machinations. They failed to make me care in PoF, The last time I cared was HoT which in my opinion was the best content release (Content wise) they had ever done. Story has gotten better over time but it just... I don't know I don't really play mmo's for a story, it never works out and if I wanted story id go play Witcher 3... or dragon age origins or any other number of single player game.

> > > >

> > > > Part me however thinks... they might just be doing this as the "Oh kitten, in case of X break glass." And this will be the "Legion" that was to WoW to guild wars 2 which means they could pull out all the stops. Honestly they kind of have too... They've burned their player base so many times that Id be surprised if they held back and did a PoF that it would go over well.. (PoF was a mess at launch even worse than HoT because at least HoT was fun. The PoF maps were boring, large and empty with bounties kind of just being bleh..) Kind of one and done maps, with no reason to return to them due the HoT maps still having legendary crafting accessible through them and almost required to be done for said crafting.

> > > >

> > > > You might not want, see or believe its possible.. I know it is and I know it wouldn't take them as much time as everyone claims or even as much work. They themselves said voice acting is neither that expensive or time consuming, and the model is basically done it just needs sprucing in the hair and face department but they data-mined tons of heads and accessories back durring HoT. Hell this thing has Idle animations just like the player races, and they had the voice of Illidan for the male PC they only needed the female PC. Seems close to shipping ready to me hoss~

> > >

> > > It isn't just about the armor sets and animations.

> > >

> > > They would need a starting zone, their own personal story, racial skills, voice actors for the player characters themselves. None of those things are cheap or simple, nor are they already done.

> > >

> > > The starting zone alone would mean either adapting an existing area for it or developing an entirely new one, as well as creating a story to justify their presence and for it to fit within existing canon and tooling dialogue, missions, and such for it.

> > >

> > > They would also need to create their racial story from level 2 to 30+, multiple variations mind you, so as to be on par with the personal stories of the existing races as their decisions during character creation determine what takes place in them.

> > >

> > > Then from level 40 to 60+ they would need to create another whole new set of stories considering the timeline where the three orders (Priory, Vigil, Order of Whispers) have already been formed into the Pact.

> > >

> > > Then from level 60 to 80 this is a similar endeavor as this section of the personal story involved the Pact a well as the fall of Zhaitan at the end.

> > >

> > > It isn't some small undertaking and you can't neglect the effort that would need to go into it so that anyone who does want to play Tengu gets the effort put into their implementation that many would expect is due. Retconning existing lore into having the Tengu just being there from the beginning would defeat the purpose and just create a lot of unnecessary confusion.

> > >

> > > You might not care terribly about the lore factor in regards to something like this but it is still a factor and one that would not be ignored were they ever to go about adding a new playable race. Like I said, its a much bigger thing than you might want to acknowledge.

> >

> > Look they don't need a personal story I can break this down and make it work, make it work properly and make it work with LESS effort than people are asking for while retaining what it is people are asking for.

> > * They get an instanced ten level starting zone, within the dominion which showcases what has happened durring the time we have been galabanting around doing things. The commander falls in this saga and we somehow had ended up tied to them; This way we step into current events and simply are the commander. OR we forego the starting zone and just say we were one of the tengu who joined the pact; So you can go through the original arc (I have no clue why you'd want too.... the base games story is trash.)

> > * Make you start at level 70, you must have a level 80 on your account so you can make tengu.

> >

> >

> > And thats it, that is all you have to do. The lore!?!? LMFAO the lore of this game is a joke my friend, it pays no respect to established lore and merely does whatever is cool and needs to be done. We haven't had the dev's or the company respect their lore since this game came out; All this because the roleplayers want to have their character remain the same as everyone else. Which is 100% the problem and the fact that this is being used to hinder the development of cool things that would refresh the gameplay of core zones? This is the same tired arguement that is thrown out everytime a new race is brought up; This is the same tired arguement that has been debunked numerous times because we can just have them SKIP all of the original story as they were not there. You could even have the commander die at any point, we did die with balthazar we could insert our tengu there where they stepped up to fill those shoes. We could die to bangar due to the blow with the bow; And they could step in there and become the new commander. There are so many ways to make this work; We don't need a new starting zone, we don't need a 1 through 80 personal story we just need them to make it make sense.

> >

> > Revenants are STILL not cannon outside of rytlock, so if you were a revenant in the prior arcs you're not cannon at all. Because he is the first revenant, they didn't care about the lore then and they didn't care about the lore when they turned balthazar evil. They didn't care about the lore when they introduced and killed vlast for NO REASON and they don't care about the lore now. There has never been a circumstance where they have cared about the lore at such a level it would hinder people from doing something in game, or obtaining something. non-humans using god power through the flame sword sohothin? Makes no sense. A charr becoming a shining blade? Makes no sense. Trahern dying to sate the rabid hate he had garnered for the SAKE of sating it and not for a worthwhile arc's close? Makes no sense.

> >

> > So please I am a lore nerd, I love the lore of this world PRIOR to guild wars 2. But the sequel has done everything in its power to destroy established lore, heck even its own lore with stuff such as Asgeir and jormag. Jormag just let him go and it wasn't him punching his tooth out of his face and yeeting it down to hoelbrak, it was jormag giving it basically too him. Or the fact that it wasn't svanir pulling on the power and willingly succumbing for power, it was drakkar corrupting his mind and yadda yadda. No one is bad and everyone is redeemable, our villians are beyond god level threats and we are now expected to believe a charr with a magic bow.... Managed to bring us low? Us? Who has fought gods and monsters far beyond this charr, us who has more experience and battle prowess and wears LEGENDARY gear. Sure. Lore. Makes sense.... I guess... maybe.... wait... nevermind.

> >

> > Tengu can happen, they should happen. I know they probs wont but I mean it would be a nice give for the fan-base. We have three humanoid races and two bestial races... one more bestial would even it out and be great.

>

> I never said that it "couldn't" happen, I said that with the amount of effort that would need to be put into it, regardless of how much you want to downplay it and how much **you** don't think the lore needs to be considered, that it just isn't a feasible endeavor to undertake for an expansion **especially** at this point in time when content is the most important thing that they should be focusing on going forward.

>

> I understand your personal feelings, I understand you would love to play the Tengu as a race and your beliefs on how it could be implemented with minimal time and effort...but that simply doesn't seem like the reality at this point due to the several reasons I pointed out in my previous post. This topic has been brought up before both of the previous expansions released, the reasons as to **why** they aren't likely to do it have been stated each time and I understand the vehemence to not simply take that as fact, because I also understand that when people want something badly enough they will make any kind of argument they can to justify the "why" and the "how". I understand you want to hold out hope that it will happen, maybe it will and maybe ANet will prove me and many others wrong and roll up with it as a surprise feature of the next expansion *however* it just doesn't seem like its a very realistic expectation, or hope, considering everything that has already been said on the topic.

>

> And just to clarify...I have nothing against them adding another playable race. I think that'd be great, but it just does not look like it is something that is in the cards both based on things they have said in the past and the kind of effort that would need to be expended to do so. It is most certainly not just a one person job based on how ANet themselves would likely prefer to implement a new race were they to ever do so. This might be an MMORPG but ANet has historically implemented mechanics paired with lore. Even WvW has lore associated with it, not a lot, but it has justification *in the lore* (regardless of your feelings on how good or bad the lore is), so you can't expect them to just ignore that because you, and maybe others, aren't willing to accept the reality of the circumstances.

>

> Also "they *should* happen". I mean I personally think ANet *should* remove downstate, I think ANet *should* rework how reviving works, I think ANet *should* do a lot of things. Neither you or I get to make those decisions for them, nor does that mean what either of us, or some others, think they *should* do would be the best course of action, or feasibly executed. For example, I do think ANet *should* remove downstate and rework revive mechanics, **however** I completely recognize that doing that simply isn't a realistic or feasible approach to resolving the issues I see that downstate has currently in the game (mostly to do with PvP/WvW). Obviously there are some exceptions to this but a compromise or general consensus has been arrived at in regards to those things, like recently the attempts to resolve the power creep issues in PvP/WvW and their work to make the game balance better, which that is still a work in progress.

>

> All I have suggested to you, and others, was to be realistic and not to set expectations for something like them adding a new playable race with the expansion. Hope all you want, sure, but don't get your hopes up. Be realistic.

 

Welp, ill be completely honest with you because emotionally I don't support this game as much as Id like. Hell I hardly log in anymore because well a multitude of reasons, I never liked elona so the past two years of story and maps + E-specs were lost on me. I also hate human lore or human characters in games so I avoid it, I dislike having to be told the story of a race that is the least interesting acrossed ALL of fantasy regardless of place, time or world building. Im not a big anime fan and so I fear Cantha will be an anime + human centric + Human based E-specs and wont be the place I fell in love with or remember so fondly from back way when.

 

A lot of what they do is lost on me because I shrug it off, and Id honestly of preferred if Cantha was the living world story and the icebrood saga had taken its place as an expansion to really focus on norn/charr stuff. (Wont happen, anet seems to hate them with norn receiving much of the ire.) So I need something outside of the facets I know are not going to appeal to me. (I mean, realistically its going to be naruto time in guild wars. We all see it coming. Im not looking forward to weeb-land) Tengu being playable would make it bearable because at least its new and different, its NEVER been done in another game. And they look cool; Posture and body structure together they look cool and it would be nice to have a second race to love alongside the norn as I really, really don't care about the others.

 

As funny as it sounds I don't see the other races as anything other than enemies, because really they were all enemies at one point. Humans and their fanatic god worship, charr and their warmonger, asuran and their blatant disregard for life or the cycle and sylvari being dragon minions (They could of been cooler in appearence, but ok.) I really don't have much drawing me on the cosmetics end, and masteries are a given as are E-specs and like PoF I am banking on them kind of being a wash for me in theme because PoF didn't really gibe with me well.

 

Im expecting nothing of them, Im not even expecting them to make an expansion Id like. (Despite loving the old cantha, from gw1 and that being my start.) Im expecting them to bend me over and give me what for, with the lore I like being tattered and more forced ... eer.. stuff I guess? I stopped caring around the time joko died honestly. Joko was the one good thing to come out of S4, made me really feel like I had an enemy and as of now I kind of just shrug my shoulders and go "eh" at the story so there is that. So I guess we shall see~

 

I wont be mad if they don't make it playable, I don't expect them too. I Expect excuses as I have no faith in the company; Haven't in a long time and Im hoping they can prove me wrong. But Judging by them promising me norn stuff, and me not getting norn stuff Im going to go out on a limb and say it will be "Business as usual" and we will just get a HoT or PoF and not a proper expansion. ~ Cheers regardless

 

(this balance patch didn't fix as much as I'd like either. The cc-ping-pong is outta control, and some classes/specs feel terrible right now.)

[Malavian.4695]

So a little brainstorming to get around the barricade. If the Tengu were added, it would require:

1) An advancement arch from 1-80

2) Modeling

3) Voicing

4) Tying in with the story of the Commander

5) Some racial abilities to match those of other races.

 

Possible solutions:

1) When we went to Elonia back in GW1 the characters advanced in a contained environment to levels sufficient to compete in open world. Tengu have been isolated for a long time so containing their character development arch within the city would be reasonable. As long as they had training areas, it's achievable.

2) I believe many of the Tengu have already had some incidental modeling from HOT. Working off the Charr model seems reasonable. I think it would also make a lot more sense if every armor set you find DIDN'T magically fit every race. Just saying....

3) I think the cost of voicing can be reduced if it just focuses on the new expansion forward. Don't recreate everything from scratch. Just build from this point forward. No, a Tengu cannot go back and become the commander in previous content. It's just the price to pay for the new race. If you wanted to ensure a relationship with Aurene, then include that during the development story from 1-80.

4) Having the Commander suddenly transform into a Tengu does not seem a viable option. So travelling to Cantha would likely be better suited to an expedition commander or Strike commander. Just change the term used when travelling to the new area and presto. Same dialogue, all characters.

5) On the racial ability front, I was thinking it might be advantageous if the Devs considered expanding all racial abilities rather than adding new specializations in this expansion. Tengu in Japanese lore were associated with training martial skills to outsiders. If the outside Commander were brought in to be taught his "inner nature" that might add a layer on top of existing specializations rather than forcing another substitution. Some basic ideas: Asuran drones/tech/new understanding of the Great alchemy, Charr going beast mode with natural abilities of claw, horn and fang, Humans could channel spirits like the ritualist everyone is hungry for, Norn channeling the lost spirits for new abilities, Sylvari doing plant shaping/plant animation, and Tengu having a whole array of war skills from weapon mastery.

[Teratus.2859]

Originally they were supposed to be playable as we know but it would be a bit difficult to do it justice at this point since in the almost 8 years since Gw2 has been around the Tengu have remained largely isolated, distrusting and kind of xenophobic of other races.

There are very, very few exceptions to this attitude too, the only one I can recall from memory is a Tengu blacksmith that aided us in the pact back in the personal story.

[Animism.7530]

This seems inherently unlikely. There are many other races more prominent and better suited to being a playable race - not that I see any point in making new ones at this point in time.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Animism.7530" said:

> This seems inherently unlikely. There are many other races more prominent and better suited to being a playable race - not that I see any point in making new ones at this point in time.

 

Such as what thought? Currently in game there arent many.

 

The tengu are the biggest one. We know that before the game was released they where among the species actually considered for a playable race(dev interviews posted on the old forums), they have many many variations of models, a full suite of animations, their models, animations and skeletons have been updated multiple times. They share the rigging points of the Charr,. They also originated from Cantha, at least the large majority of the ones who settled the Domain of Winds did.

 

And another criteria, the race has to fit into the theme of Cantha. Eliminating the Kodan, Largos, Centuars, Dwarves, Skritt, Grawl, Ogres, Quaggans, Krait and just about -every- species on the continent of Tyria that players have asked for as a playable race but i think i listed all those.

 

The only other race that fits into a canthan themed expansion which i will say i think would be neat are the Naga if they still exist that is. A playable snake species? bring it.

 

if they went the route of a new race, they could make a brand new race, they have the talent and as long as it fits into the lore, do it.

 

But, i doubt they will add a new playable race, or a new class. All i want is a continent, elite specs, a decent story, the Rainbow Phoenix as a pet and ill be happy. A new race or class would be icing on the cake.