Adzekul.3104 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Who designs this stuff? The first instance in the new story looks very nice, and the escorts are good, but the boss fight (Ancient Forgeman) is absolutely horrible. The scaling (as with all story scaling) is really bad, there is too much to do, and people have no clue cuz there are no clear instructions that can be actioned within reasonable response times. How did this go live? The disparity between the ease of the escorts and the difficulty of the boss fight is shocking. The tank is permanently at minimal health, nobody knows how to CC the boss, the portals respawn way too fast and the boss takes so very little damage cuz we spend ages killing the mobs and repairing tank and .. and ...broken armour with no way to repair ... and ... people leave the instance and no new people rejoin ... and ... utter futility with anything less than an experience raid comp. No way to have any clue how many people are in the instance. If you exit in frustration at the incompetence / inexperience of others, you have to redo the whole instance from scratch. So if you leave the boss fight after 30 minutes of futility, you have to repeat about 1 hour of content. Public Instance fiasco. Episode fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 The boss fight is quiet easy, I didn’t have any problems with a public group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzekul.3104 Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Lucky you. May I guess that you ran it last night after the patch went live? Probably the optimal time to run it as the pool of players was likely very large. As and when you get stuck with 4-5 random casuals plus yourself, maybe your experience will be different. And so I complain as I do every episode about the scaling problems. Fights always seem to be designed for peak play, and not lazy afternoons. They get adjusted afterwards, but then the scaling is not implemented for the next design cycle. And so the scaling problems repeat every most episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 The boss fight is fine. It’s explained what to do by the ambient dialogue from the Charr team. All of the issues you mention stem from players not paying attention to anything since they started the instance. > The tank is permanently at minimal health, Then heal it with the scraps mentioned near the beginning of the mission. > nobody knows how to CC the boss, Player issue. NPC tells you to go into the tank and use the grapple or whatever it’s called. Earlier in the mission, you had to do this to proceed. > the portals respawn way too fast Spawn rate is fine otherwise you’re just standing around with nothing to do. > and the boss takes so very little damage cuz we spend ages killing the mobs and repairing tank and .. Primary damage comes from the tank and more specifically after you break the defiance bar. > and ...broken armour with no way to repair ... While it could be beneficial to have an anvil at the start I don’t find it necessary as players should not be dying that much on normal mode. > and ... people leave the instance and no new people rejoin ... As far as I’m aware, this only incurs in a public instance. Players should still be able to join in a squad instance. > and ... utter futility with anything less than an experience raid comp. You don’t need a raid comp for normal. Difficulties on normal is entirely a player performance issue. > If you exit in frustration at the incompetence / inexperience of others, you have to redo the whole instance from scratch. Same thing happens if you leave a dungeon assuming you’re no longer in the team. > So if you leave the boss fight after 30 minutes of futility, you have to repeat about 1 hour of content It shouldn’t take more than 30-45 min for the entire thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 You can comfortably solo this. Just kill the enemies from the portals, repair whenever scrap drops and the tank is damaged to 50%, pick up every single ammo drop you can and just hold down 1 in the tank after you got rid of the armor through the harpoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzekul.3104 Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Not going to argue, because you are right. But how does one get the content done when the general population is not capable of following basic principles / common sense / guidance from the game? I am not going to ask my WvW-focused guild to provide 9 others in order to do this. It'll never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I loved the fight. Ill admit not many were looking at the mechanics, but I kept on tank heal and that worked out fine. You don't even really need to harpoon the boss - it just makes it go quicker It all seemed well explained or intuitive enough to work out. Def one of their better bosses I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 The mission should be infallible on normal in theory. I haven’t tested that out as every group has been capable of doing it. Not using CC on the boss just means that the fight takes longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I thought the boss fight was fine. I was in a public instance and the only "problem" I saw was the obstinance of people not wanting to CC or repair the tank. If players don't want to run the fight in an optimal way, than its just going to take longer to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickDntn.1847 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I had a problem with the last boss in one of my public run because I think there are only 5-6 six of us. It took sometimes for us to really get it together since it seems you need 6 people harpooning to break its bar, and between the portals, mobs, and keeping the tank up so we can use it, we're pretty much overwhelmed, some downed in cc phase, and people barely notice cc calls when they are overwhelmed by these kinds of stuff. Mechanic wise its pretty simple, but I hope they would polish it further especially with scaling in public mission as we go further into the seasons. But honestly, with full squad and even full public group, it's less problematic to no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 done it four times, 3 was fast successes. But the fourth? Horrid and exactly as the op describes. A constant overload of enemies and low health tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 If you’re having issues, make sure that none of the challenge motes were activated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 People really do find ways to complain about _anything_ . It's a fun ride, no complaints. Way easy without challenge motes active, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 There are very clear instructions on what to do. Some people just don't follow them, that is a vastly different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanok.3027 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Haha...we three-manned the instance easily. Three DPS builds and we wrecked the final boss. It took us a couple of mins to understand what to do, but once we got it, it was so easy. I'd imagine a bigger group did better. The final boss was so easy the second time around (my friend didn't get story credit, so we had to go again) and I'd love to do it again with another friend of ours and simply wipe the floor with everything. If you had trouble, perhaps it's just because the people you ran with couldn't be bothered to either do anything and pull their weight, didn't listen or just aren't that good to begin with at following instructions. We're not even hardcore or anything. We were just having fun and it was great. - Kill portals - Barrier Runes - Scrap metal to heal vehicle - After venting pressure, get in vehicle and CC using skill 3 (spam it) - Shoot with ammo and any DPS on the ground - ??? - Profit It's so easy and it was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drennon.7190 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Wait, people are having trouble with this? I did this on public and it was very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Drennon.7190" said: > Wait, people are having trouble with this? I did this on public and it was very easy. What’s likely happening is that someone activated one or all of the challenge motes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiilimon.6094 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Adzekul.3104" said: > Not going to argue, because you are right. But how does one get the content done when the general population is not capable of following basic principles / common sense / guidance from the game? > > I am not going to ask my WvW-focused guild to provide 9 others in order to do this. It'll never happen. Use one of the 4 free slots for a pve guild, really easy to find people willing to help you that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > You can comfortably solo this. Just kill the enemies from the portals, repair whenever scrap drops and the tank is damaged to 50%, pick up every single ammo drop you can and just hold down 1 in the tank after you got rid of the armor through the harpoon. How do you break the break bar completely? When I played it solo, I was only able to reduce the break bar to around 30% with spamming the tank-skill-3 (harpoon) before the skill went into cool down. And without a fully broken break bar, it takes way too long for my taste (so I left after the boss had 70%, because I proved to myself that it was solo-able and because I had already finished it before in a public mission). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Zok.4956" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > You can comfortably solo this. Just kill the enemies from the portals, repair whenever scrap drops and the tank is damaged to 50%, pick up every single ammo drop you can and just hold down 1 in the tank after you got rid of the armor through the harpoon. > > How do you break the break bar completely? When I played it solo, I was only able to reduce the break bar to around 30% with spamming the tank-skill-3 (harpoon) before the skill went into cool down. And without a fully broken break bar, it takes way too long for my taste (so I left after the boss had 70%, because I proved to myself that it was solo-able and because I had already finished it before in a public mission). > You must be missing one pull then, the bar is tuned in a way that requires 100% of your hits with the harpoon ability to break it and it runs out pratically the moment the bar breaks. I just spammed 3 once the bar was up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Adzekul.3104" said: > Who designs this stuff? The first instance in the new story looks very nice, and the escorts are good, but the boss fight (Ancient Forgeman) is absolutely horrible. The scaling (as with all story scaling) is really bad, there is too much to do, and people have no clue cuz there are no clear instructions that can be actioned within reasonable response times. > I did it with 6 people, boss took a little while to kill but overall it was pretty clear what we had to do, we just weren't taking it all that seriously because we were having fun. > How did this go live? The disparity between the ease of the escorts and the difficulty of the boss fight is shocking. > Bosses are supposed to be harder, that's why they're bosses :D In all seriousness though, sounds to me the problem was more to do with your group being unable to coordinate rather than the content itself. > The tank is permanently at minimal health, nobody knows how to CC the boss, the portals respawn way too fast and the boss takes so very little damage cuz we spend ages killing the mobs and repairing tank and .. and ...broken armour with no way to repair ... and ... people leave the instance and no new people rejoin ... and ... utter futility with anything less than an experience raid comp. > Tank was permanently at max health for me.. even with only 1-2 people bothering to heal it. CC phase gets a direct call to Harpoon the boss so if nobody's CCing that's a player coordination problem not a content problem. Portals need to respawn somewhat fast because it's the only way you can restock ammo for the tank. Broken armour by deaths? surely you could have taken turns leaving the instance and coming back repaired. I can assure you that this content isn't even on the same continent as raids are.. it's practically the same if not easier than most dungeon content is. > If you exit in frustration at the incompetence / inexperience of others, you have to redo the whole instance from scratch. So if you leave the boss fight after 30 minutes of futility, you have to repeat about 1 hour of content. > That's typically how rage quitting works.. This really is mostly down to your group tbh, I've been hearing that people are soloing this instance and that it scales with the amount of players but I havent tested to confirm this yet. Either way I advise you try again, hopefully you'll have a better group this time and you'll beat the content with little difficulty ^^ Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTGuevara.9018 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Sounds to me you just had a bad group. It's pretty much an open-world group event. It's no more and no less than that. The encounter is intricately designed so that people coordinate doing different tasks to maintain the charr campaign, ex: someone on the tank, someone else taking down portals, another gathering materials for repairs. Again, it's no different than the open world where you have multiple chain events going off at once. I will say though that yes, it's long. God help you if you disconnect! I will also ask: what happens if the Forgeman fails? Do you start the whole campaign over or is there a checkpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Adzekul.3104" said: > Who designs this stuff? The first instance in the new story looks very nice, and the escorts are good, but the boss fight (Ancient Forgeman) is absolutely horrible. The scaling (as with all story scaling) is really bad, there is too much to do, and people have no clue cuz there are no clear instructions that can be actioned within reasonable response times. > The instructions was all the bits before it. You were supposed to be paying attention. That was blindingly obvious with how they reiterated the different sections. This is the equivalent of someone sleeping through class and then wondering why they failed the finals but blamed the teacher instead. > @"Adzekul.3104" said: > Not going to argue, because you are right. But how does one get the content done when the general population is not capable of following basic principles / common sense / guidance from the game? > > I am not going to ask my WvW-focused guild to provide 9 others in order to do this. It'll never happen. As pointed out in a different thread the instance does in fact scale pretty well to the point that it can be soloed on a healer build. It **can be** done with 10. It doesn't require 10. Just as normal story bits can be done with 5 but doesn't require 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 the boss fight was fine. Two people were smart enough to stand on the plates and the others were hard hitting enough to take down the mobs. Could have gone better, but still was reasonable smooth - and the tank never suffered real damage. Some people are just not able to read and or listen. And there is nothing one can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukia.4802 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 My first run went fine, I had players that know how to tie their own shoes in the morning. But my 2nd run.. I don't know how many times I said in chat how to CC boss and even explained there was a timer when he vents, multiple times. Everyone refused to listen so it took ages to kill it. Honestly I wanted it to fail, there is no excuse for letting that fight eventually succeed despite horrible performance from the players. If it failed then maybe they will do the mechanics next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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