New Maps

[Calle.8746]

Hola,

 

I missed the introduction of the desert map, currently the Red Border in wvw so I missed all the hate for it due to being on a break at the time. I can understand it considering there was no gliding and no mount during that time but I do really enjoy the desert map a lot. After playing GW2 since release and mostly playing WvW I've have grown extremly bored of the same old fucking maps every single fucking time I play.

 

How are the thought of everyone else towards getting some new maps into WvW? Would it make any difference? Would it be bad/good?

 

I'd love to see themed maps. Liked RED is Desert, Green is Jungle, Blue is Snowy. Would also love to see a new EBG. Just bored running the same shit over and over.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[Svarty.8019]

Let's go over it yet again... Last time Arenanet created new maps for WvW, they said it would take years to make it, then they spent two years making a map that was way way way way way more complex than any WvW player wanted. Presumably a simpler map would take less time to create, but who knows if that's true or not?!

 

A lot of people complained (you won't find (m)any complaints by me about the Desert map, btw, I still believe the powerful lords at the side keeps create situations where you get the best fights in the whole of WvW), and although it's been adjusted many times since then, it's still the least popular of the regular maps (I believe this is largely to do with the crap Garrison and "wrong" distance between towers and keeps). It was designed by map artists and it looks very very pretty, but they didn't seem to take into account the range of trebuchets or how zergs would interact with it.

 

Why can't you go up the towers?! :( This was something I was very much looking forward to, initially.

 

TL;DR

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Clownmug.8357]

Yeah, a jungle themed map would be nice. Maybe something like Tangled Depths to really drive the desert BL haters crazy.

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> Yeah, a jungle themed map would be nice. Maybe something like Tangled Depths to really drive the desert BL haters crazy.

 

I like secret routes - they reward exploration.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> Yeah, a jungle themed map would be nice. Maybe something like Tangled Depths to really drive the desert BL haters crazy.

 

Not having gliding available outside your territory would make that hard to play, depending on the map structure that is.

[blp.3489]

> Not having gliding available outside your territory would make that hard to play, depending on the map structure that is.

 

I think they should add a map where gliding and all the PVE mounts can be used, with terrain that's designed with that in mind, and with appropriate defense mechanisms.

 

Maybe the mounts can only be gotten from stables, like the loaner mounts before you get your mount license in PVE, that you therefore want to protect, and you have to go back to after you dismount.

[Sviel.7493]

The main problem with their first new map is that they left myriad issues unresolved and just dropped a new map in as if that would make it all go away. At the same time, they forced all dedicated WvWers into PvE to get their guild buffs back. To top it off, they dropped the first round of elites and created the largest combat disruption of all time. It was just too much at once. Even before you got to the issues with the map (like the poorly implemented Oasis event).

 

That said, I do think they're capable of delivering some interesting maps. I would love to see this in the future. However, at this exact moment, I'd rather they got back to the basics and improved those instead of vomiting out new and shiny game-breaking things once a year a so. They haven't given me much reason to have hope, but they've at least released a game whereas CU is 6 years late.

[kash.9213]

I'd like a copy of whatever living world or story map is out at the time and maybe future story updates can have some background chatter, passing comments, or visual nods in the pve maps towards the spvp and wvw efforts so we're not detached from the rest of the game. Then rotate one more classic map that maybe has a story step or something in the current story or is relevant somehow. A problem would be spreading people out too much although we can get more active map alerts, preferably tools scouts can use with some wvw currency or something that pings the radar.

 

Since I'm always harping on wanting an open world pvp version of the mega server that wont happen this would at least give some stretches for maneuvering and just having fun but can funnel people into the action so anyone looking for the large fights aren't spending all night running around trying to catch up.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> I'd like a copy of whatever living world or story map is out at the time and maybe future story updates can have some background chatter, passing comments, or visual nods in the pve maps towards the spvp and wvw efforts so we're not detached from the rest of the game. Then rotate one more classic map that maybe has a story step or something in the current story or is relevant somehow. A problem would be spreading people out too much although we can get more active map alerts, preferably tools scouts can use with some wvw currency or something that pings the radar.

>

> Since I'm always harping on wanting an open world pvp version of the mega server that wont happen this would at least give some stretches for maneuvering and just having fun but can funnel people into the action so anyone looking for the large fights aren't spending all night running around trying to catch up.

 

This for some reason made me think of amnoon. How about a fully urban map?

[subversiontwo.7501]

New maps can make old content feel new and be a very effective way to garner public rapport with little effort.

 

WvW maps should be conducive to WvW however. The problem we've had with both EotM and DBL is that Anet attempted to do "something different" with them and that just doesn't translate well to the mode at large. It creates conflict within what the mode intends to be.

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> ...Last time Arenanet created new maps for WvW, they said it would take years to make it

Hold the phone. These guys are churning out new sizable pve maps every 2 to 3 months and decent sized instanced maps on the interim. I understand there's a competitive element to wvw maps so more time has to be taken to look over the maps and adjust for balance. But multiple years?

Seems like a bit of stretch. That said, all people are looking for is a different aesthetic, correct? They don't need to introduce fancy (often unbalanced, abusable or game breaking) mechanics, people asking for new maps just want something different to look at.

 

~ Kovu

[Captain Kuro.8937]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> I'd like a copy of whatever living world or story map is out at the time and maybe future story updates can have some background chatter, passing comments, or visual nods in the pve maps towards the spvp and wvw efforts so we're not detached from the rest of the game.

 

That could work !

Put 2 coppies of each map to make it bigger , or turn their axis .

And have an NPC to vote to''leave it when the new story updates come up , or change it to ''

 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

if you mean that like "a changing map", that'd be a really cool idea. technically a bit much work tho i fear. considering updates of wvw take barely any capacities, it's unlikely to happen.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > ...Last time Arenanet created new maps for WvW, they said it would take years to make it

> Hold the phone. These guys are churning out new sizable pve maps every 2 to 3 months and decent sized instanced maps on the interim. I understand there's a competitive element to wvw maps so more time has to be taken to look over the maps and adjust for balance. But multiple years?

> Seems like a bit of stretch. That said, all people are looking for is a different aesthetic, correct? They don't need to introduce fancy (often unbalanced, abusable or game breaking) mechanics, people asking for new maps just want something different to look at.

>

> ~ Kovu

Shush you.

 

**Clearly** it takes far longer development time to use an existing basic design layout - lets say EB 3-way of border keeps and a central fortress - and redesign, readjust and remodel it with mostly existing 3D assets - lets say the HoT jungle scheme in general and Tarir design for the central fortress - than it takes making entire new maps and Living Stories.

 

[Sviel.7493]

I don't see why Anet would be interested in simply reskinning old maps.

 

When they made DBL, they attempted to address several long-standing issues through the map design. It was sort of hit-and-miss, but overall a great success in my book...except for the part where it was several years too late and most of the remaining population had grown to love the flaws.

 

If they remake EBG, they will likely want to make similar updates. The neutral camps would probably get removed, some of the free trebbing spots would disappear (like in the most recent map adjustment), and towers would be redesigned to have at least two doors. I imagine they'd also upgrade the lords from the army of potato clones too.

 

But after the DBL reception, I doubt they're feeling too eager to attempt all that. Reskinning the map in such a way as to miss all opportunities to perhaps make the game mode more popular is just not a winning proposition for them.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Sviel.7493" said:

> I don't see why Anet would be interested in simply reskinning old maps.

>

> When they made DBL, they attempted to address several long-standing issues through the map design. It was sort of hit-and-miss, but overall a great success in my book...except for the part where it was several years too late and most of the remaining population had grown to love the flaws.

>

> If they remake EBG, they will likely want to make similar updates. The neutral camps would probably get removed, some of the free trebbing spots would disappear (like in the most recent map adjustment), and towers would be redesigned to have at least two doors. I imagine they'd also upgrade the lords from the army of potato clones too.

>

> But after the DBL reception, I doubt they're feeling too eager to attempt all that. Reskinning the map in such a way as to miss all opportunities to perhaps make the game mode more popular is just not a winning proposition for them.

DBL wasnt a "great success" until they listened to the community and made some massive changes. DBL 1.0 was *horrible*.

[Sviel.7493]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> DBL wasnt a "great success" until they listened to the community and made some massive changes. DBL 1.0 was *horrible*.

 

I'm not saying there weren't mistakes, though we likely disagree on exactly what those mistakes were. Just, the changes they made from a map layout standpoint were very good. Things like having two camps feeding into the northern towers so that their upgrade times aren't three times higher than everything else on the map, and things like putting more distance between the corner spawn camps and the side keeps. Also, the side keeps don't have any reusable siege spots where you can hit both outer and inner at once and North Camp is in a more accessible location where it's more reasonable for invading servers to contest it.

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > ...Last time Arenanet created new maps for WvW, they said it would take years to make it

> > Hold the phone. These guys are churning out new sizable pve maps every 2 to 3 months and decent sized instanced maps on the interim. I understand there's a competitive element to wvw maps so more time has to be taken to look over the maps and adjust for balance. But multiple years?

> > Seems like a bit of stretch. That said, all people are looking for is a different aesthetic, correct? They don't need to introduce fancy (often unbalanced, abusable or game breaking) mechanics, people asking for new maps just want something different to look at.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

> Shush you.

>

> **Clearly** it takes far longer development time to use an existing basic design layout - lets say EB 3-way of border keeps and a central fortress - and redesign, readjust and remodel it with mostly existing 3D assets - lets say the HoT jungle scheme in general and Tarir design for the central fortress - than it takes making entire new maps and Living Stories.

>

 

I'd play on a competitive Auric Basin. I'd play the hell out of that.

 

~ Kovu

[gert.7698]

I’m in for new maps! Would also be cool if they use the EOTM map in a wvw rotation from multiple maps (instead of the EB map the whole time...)

[Syrus.2174]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Sviel.7493" said:

> > I don't see why Anet would be interested in simply reskinning old maps.

> >

> > When they made DBL, they attempted to address several long-standing issues through the map design. It was sort of hit-and-miss, but overall a great success in my book...except for the part where it was several years too late and most of the remaining population had grown to love the flaws.

> >

> > If they remake EBG, they will likely want to make similar updates. The neutral camps would probably get removed, some of the free trebbing spots would disappear (like in the most recent map adjustment), and towers would be redesigned to have at least two doors. I imagine they'd also upgrade the lords from the army of potato clones too.

> >

> > But after the DBL reception, I doubt they're feeling too eager to attempt all that. Reskinning the map in such a way as to miss all opportunities to perhaps make the game mode more popular is just not a winning proposition for them.

> DBL wasnt a "great success" until they listened to the community and made some massive changes. DBL 1.0 was *horrible*.

 

It's still horrible.

 

While I at times even liked playing on Desert BL, at some point I always run into things that just don't work out well in WvW.

A map with less clutter and especially fewer height differences and more standard sized objective, not to mention less annoying NPCs, especially lords, would be very much appreciated. Having to take detours everywhere because there's a massive drop isn't fun and means much time spend moving between objectives. I feel like I'm always struggling to find ways to get to where the action is without killing myself through fall damage on the way there, despite usually knowing the way. It's just not fun, nor intuitive.

And objectives that are almost 10% the size of the map are quite annoying to scout, especially when their design is this unrealistic, a keep that is underground but not really doesn't make much sense as it is. Not to mention all the places mesmers or thieves can hide in these massive objectives. Even towers are large enough that you can easily be missed by the enemy and retake them once they are gone. Few people bother checking everywhere because it takes so long, causing objectives to flip much faster and easier than on the normal maps.

Fire and Air keep are just ridiculously easy to attack from afar and Garri can almost be opened by the time you found where the enemy is, even if you got a defending zerg near it. Though despite it all, Fire is probably my favorite keep on the map... There's a reason fortifications in real life were usually put on elevated places, they are easier to defend and overlook the area.

Fire practically being underground adds another layer to it as well, which increases the map's size significantly, even if there's usually nothing going on up there.

I do like that towers can be entered from not just one way though. With how big they are that at least saves some time of running all the way to the entrance.

Not to mention, Lords should be sturdy, not annoyingly jump around. The players are there to defend an objective.

 

There are just so many flaws with this map, it's pointless to list them all, and it would probably make more sense to design a new map instead.

The Alpine Borderland surely isn't perfect, but it plays much smoother and offers much better chances for decent fights. Objectives are actually defendable.

 

I'm all for a new map, but if they ever release one, I most certainly hope for them to not clutter it too much, to keep the height differences small - there should not be a need for teleports to move around properly! -, to keep objectives properly sized and easier to overlook, to keep running distances between objectives low, but spacing things out decently at the same tim... and so on.

 

Personally I prefer EBG-style maps, with all parties having somewhat equal starting positions and a more middle-focussed fight, instead of the one-side-defends kind of maps. But it is as it is. Overall I would really prefer to have another Alpine Borderland for Red ... or let the players (who completed Silver chest this week?) choose which map they get next week... then again, that'd always end up as Alpine anyway...

[Hannelore.8153]

I actually think that DBL and EoTM are good maps, and tbh, these days DBL sees alot of play after mounts were added. Zergs spend quite a bit of time there taking the keeps and fighting off defenders (which is alot harder than on ABL, due to better mechanics).

 

EoTM just isn't played because its not rewarding, and lack of gliding and mounts makes it frustrating.

 

And yes, we need another Jungle Borderlands (JBL) to replace the second ABL, because it gets really boring having to play the same map against two servers when your home Borderlands is DBL, because all you see on the offensive is either EBG or.. snow.

 

Lots and lots of snow.

 

One request though, as I've suggested before, if we add more maps they need to be disabled during off-hours to limit coverage.

[dikkejonko.5803]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > Yeah, a jungle themed map would be nice. Maybe something like Tangled Depths to really drive the desert BL haters crazy.

>

> I like secret routes - they reward exploration.

 

There are no secrets in wvw maps after a couple of days

[Jski.6180]

I like to see a river map where you have water that is not deep enofe to swim in but gives moment boots depending on who controls the ends of the river objectives. A very flat to hill map no cliff.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"dikkejonko.5803" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > Yeah, a jungle themed map would be nice. Maybe something like Tangled Depths to really drive the desert BL haters crazy.

> >

> > I like secret routes - they reward exploration.

>

> There are no secrets in wvw maps after a couple of days

Have you sieged DBL bay through the window in the lava basement yet?

 

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> One request though, as I've suggested before, if we add more maps they need to be disabled during off-hours to limit coverage.

 

I think that's the opposite of what we need, isn't it? We want people spaced out and all over the place! Sure, we also want fights, but if we begin with the premise of us being so near to one another that it's impossible to attack anything effectively, what's the point in trying?

 

The mounts have effectively shrunk the playing area of WvW, so another map might help to counter that effect.