Daddicus.6128

The game keeps losing connection to the server. Code =7:11:3:191:101

Worked fine earlier today and last night.

It won't stay up long enough to send an in-game support notice. Now, it won't log in at all, so I'm putting the message here.

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> The way I see it is, the core specialisation introduces you to the class and most of the mechanics of a class. The specialisations then add to this, once you have already learnt the "core/backbone" of a profession. Playing a core class in open world is sufficient enough to clear all content.

>

> The beauty of core classes is that you are not locked into any trait line, so you can build pretty much any way that you want. The specialisations are well.. specialised, and when you specialise in something, it means you are good at it, so it makes sense that the specialisations would be strong in what they specialise in.

>

> Of course this is different from a PvP or WvW standpoint, you are objectively at a disadvantage without the expansions (less so in PvP, some core classes are viable).

Except the elite specs commonly have nothing at all to do with the profession. Think ranger and druid. What on earth do they have in common besides pets? Soulbeast is closer, but daggers?

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

>

> Edit - though this is all moot as the ship has sailed.

Possibly. But, if it has, then 90% of the arguments against this idea evaporate. Getting a new elite is probably not going to happen. But, these wouldn't be new. The would be slightly beefed-up old lines.

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> I would still like to see a kick-kitten elite longbow ranger.

> I have the Dragonhunter for an elite bowman to run around with instead.

Exactly my point. Why on earth is a guardian better with a longbow than a ranger? That makes no sense whatsoever. Yet, here it stares us in the face.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Ignoring elite specializations and how they are currently still often more potent compared to core trait lines, which can also be considered a good thing since most priority balance happens around how trait lines synergize with 1 elite trait line (which in turn reduces work load a lot since not all trait lines need to be equally powerful), this suggestion would result in:

> - a LOT of extra work in balancing old content which currently works fine. Work hours which could be spent on developing new content, most directly new elite specializations

> - future balance workload becoming overproportionatly higher since designing and balancing 2 for each core trait line would require double to constant monitoring

> - create more unintuitive barriers where some players already need time to adjust and understand the current traitline system

> - no significant shift in class performance abilities. For example: heal guardian works just fine, it simply is outperformed by heal firebrand. The role as such though is more than possible on guardian, unlike say a thief or mesmer. The net gain of possible roles per core class would not significantly increase, definitely a lot less than with a new set of elite specilaizations

> - many core builds are quite powerful currently in different game modes

>

> In short: this idea creates more current and future work for less return than alternative areas where these resoucres could be used, has no significant impact on the class role distribution and doe not provide any significant actual new content.

>

> **TL;DR**:

> Another one of those "great" ideas where people just start talking about what they think would be great without actually spending even 2 minutes on refining their idea into a state where it would make sense to implement into the game or even discuss. Another idea which has a chance of 0.00001% of ever getting taken serious by people who actually have to manage the workload at a time where resources are strained already.

What is so complex about multiplying numbers? Change NOTHING ELSE. Just multiply all values by the percentage targeted by elites now. (Which I don't know, but I assume ANet does. One person above suggested +20%.)

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> I am pretty sure this would simply break competitive modes even more. As it is, core professions excel still in wvw roaming/smallscale and in pvp. Core guard, mesmer, thief, ele (yes, ele), necro, warrior, theyre absolutely more than just viable. I cant even begin to imagine a more buffed core warr, or thief.

As I said, I don't care about competitive modes. This idea would be for PvE.

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > This has been mentioned and discussed many times in the past, if curious about more details search for some of the old threads.

> > >

> > > But basically the most "likely" way to solve that, is to promote the 5th traitline of each class into a specific "core-elite-spez". I'll use guardian as an example, so the trait line "Virtues" (which is the one that affects the virtues the guardians class mechanic) would be promoted to a elite variant.

> > >

> > > * This means it can't be equipped until level 71 (unlock the 3rd trait line)

> > > * Can't be used together with other Elite's (can't mix Virtues with DH or FB)

> > > * Would still not get any own skills or weapons

> > > * Would allow ANet to balance it to compensate for the difference in power with the existing elites, easier to balance

> > > * Limits most classes from double stacking traits that changes how their profession mechanic works (example no stacking Beast Mastery and SoulBeast for ranger)

> > > * Somewhat hard lock core into playing with their new core-elite because a large part of their power will be focused in that traitline. (most likely by having some big +X% damage bonuses tied into it, to compensate for the generally higher bonuses of elites)

> > > * Would effectively reduce the amount of core builds most people use, since everyone would feel "forced" into using Virtues if they don't use the expansion elites. Essentially you could break down most builds to "run one of the 3, then build after what you want that elite to do".

> >

> > Agreed. I wouldn't limit it to just one trait line, though. But, one would have to choose a single trait line as your elite. (Of course, there would be five, if you wanted to spec out five characters as one of each, but that doesn't seem likely for most folks.)

>

> The reason I suggested to upgrade 1 traitline, and a specific one, is because honestly otherwise this is just too much work for too little return. Considering how poorly ANet been handling balancing in this game as it is the last 4-5 years.

>

> At that point, you might as well just have a feature that says if you have a class with only core traits, gets a free +20% damage bonus, to compete with the elites. (Number pending depending on actual balance etc)

>

> Reworking all 5 trait lines to be both core trait lines and core-elite-traitlines (potential, if put into the third spot) isn't that far from asking for 2-3 new elites, in pure work and balance load. The scale of the idea becomes unrealistic.

Yeah, that would work. (Assuming 20% is the right number. But, they would know that.) Different idea for the same concept. Thanks!

One thing might not be clear in my proposal:

Characters would get ONE elite specialization, same as now. The key would be that one of them, instead of choosing what are the current elites, could be one of the original five, but at the same slightly elevated power level as the elites have.

I THINK that this would mean simply math calculations. If the elites are targeted at 5% better, than make zeal 5% better. And virtue, etc. They shouldn't need to change anything else. (But, your character could only use one of them at a time, and would forego having an elite spec to do it.)

NOTE: by "power" in all of the above, I mean general power level, not the specific attribute called Power.

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Providence.7185" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > And why would anyone wanna buy expansions, in that case?

> > > Edit: the fact that you cant play guard healer isnt druid. Its firebrand.

> >

> > You raise a good point. However, it goes beyond what you stated. Buying the expansions is not enough to get the elite specs. It simply makes them available.

> >

> > To get use the elite specs a new player must 1) purchase the expansions as you stated, 2) get the necessary glider / mounts for step #3, and level up said mounts and 3) get the hero points in expansion content - all this on an under powered (in most cases) core spec.

> >

> > Even the above fails to mention that following the typical game path the new player still will spend 80 levels and much of the Personal story on a - typically - less interesting/fun core spec.

> >

> > I would argue that the requirement for unlocking the elite specs - beyond purchasing the expansions - hurts the Devs business model substantially. Too many roadblocks are placed between the new/ish player and the coveted elite specs and all those fun looking game play videos he sees.

>

> PoF and HoT heropoint trains are being done many times during a week. Newbies will have virtually no issue getting all 250 required points.

Correct, but if someone wanted to get all 7 elites (if all of this idea is implemented), they wouldn't be able to do it on a single character. Now, you can actually attain both elites without too much difficulty, but adding 5 more would require new "something" (to replace or add to hero points).

> @"Providence.7185" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > And why would anyone wanna buy expansions, in that case?

> > Edit: the fact that you cant play guard healer isnt druid. Its firebrand.

>

> You raise a good point. However, it goes beyond what you stated. Buying the expansions is not enough to get the elite specs. It simply makes them available.

>

> To get use the elite specs a new player must 1) purchase the expansions as you stated, 2) get the necessary glider / mounts for step #3, and level up said mounts and 3) get the hero points in expansion content - all this on an under powered (in most cases) core spec.

>

> Even the above fails to mention that following the typical game path the new player still will spend 80 levels and much of the Personal story on a - typically - less interesting/fun core spec.

>

> I would argue that the requirement for unlocking the elite specs - beyond purchasing the expansions - hurts the Devs business model substantially. Too many roadblocks are placed between the new/ish player and the coveted elite specs and all those fun looking game play videos he sees.

I understand, but disagree, at least sort of. My idea should come with requirements as well, and of a similar amount of work to attain as it would being a new elite spec.

BUT, the requirements might be fulfillable in core or even in the LS zones. I suspect they would have to add some kind of hero-point-like structure to make the costs clear to players, as they are with current elites.

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > _I'm only discussing PvE, although some of this might apply elsewhere._

> >

> > Elite specializations have has one significant issue across the board: they reduce the ability to play the core profession. Elites beef up the character too much to ignore. It simply makes playing a core profession undesirable.

> >

> > To fix this, I think the core specializations should have the ability to be slotted as an elite, and receive a corresponding increase in power to match.

> >

> > I'm not sure how much more powerful a current elite spec is compared to non-elite ones, but devs must have access to that information. So, if they do, that would make it nearly trivial to do the calculations: just multiply by that percentage.

> >

> > Getting them to be slotted as elite might be more complicated, though. Perhaps creating a new trait line with the same traits, but a different name might work. Then, disallow using the old and the new together.

> >

> > I would really like to be able to play a guardian healer as a guardian, but having druids in the game makes that a stripped-down option. Same thing for warriors, necros, and most of the professions.

>

> They should bring all the professions into the elite spec power scale at their core level, which would mean E-specs would become different ways to play rather than straight upgrades with little nuances. They shouldn't be stronger but should be just a different and potentially more diversifying portion of your class; This then would help with balance and future E-specs to be more nuanced.

Exactly. Ele becomes a viable alternative to tempest or weaver.

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> And why would anyone wanna buy expansions, in that case?

> Edit: the fact that you cant play guard healer isnt druid. Its firebrand.

Expansion or not doesn't matter. I personally would make this independent of them, but there's no reason they couldn't be part of an expansion.

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> This has been mentioned and discussed many times in the past, if curious about more details search for some of the old threads.

>

> But basically the most "likely" way to solve that, is to promote the 5th traitline of each class into a specific "core-elite-spez". I'll use guardian as an example, so the trait line "Virtues" (which is the one that affects the virtues the guardians class mechanic) would be promoted to a elite variant.

>

> * This means it can't be equipped until level 71 (unlock the 3rd trait line)

> * Can't be used together with other Elite's (can't mix Virtues with DH or FB)

> * Would still not get any own skills or weapons

> * Would allow ANet to balance it to compensate for the difference in power with the existing elites, easier to balance

> * Limits most classes from double stacking traits that changes how their profession mechanic works (example no stacking Beast Mastery and SoulBeast for ranger)

> * Somewhat hard lock core into playing with their new core-elite because a large part of their power will be focused in that traitline. (most likely by having some big +X% damage bonuses tied into it, to compensate for the generally higher bonuses of elites)

> * Would effectively reduce the amount of core builds most people use, since everyone would feel "forced" into using Virtues if they don't use the expansion elites. Essentially you could break down most builds to "run one of the 3, then build after what you want that elite to do".

Agreed. I wouldn't limit it to just one trait line, though. But, one would have to choose a single trait line as your elite. (Of course, there would be five, if you wanted to spec out five characters as one of each, but that doesn't seem likely for most folks.)

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"xenon.3264" said:

> > ehm no. core profession are core. what if i wanted core guardian to be buffed to be a condition dps and not a healer ?

>

> And elite specs where supposed to come with some sort of negative so that it wasnt a straight out upgrade, and they do not do that at all for most classes. I cant even play my Ranger without SB these days cause Ranger is so weak on its own. Anets balancing has never been great, but elite specs made it way more obvious. Same with my ele and weaver.

That's my point: you can't play a ranger in high-level zones. Or, rather, you can't play one as effectively as any other class using an elite spec.

This would level the playing field between the core professions and the elites, to make them playable again.

> @"xenon.3264" said:

> ehm no. core profession are core. what if i wanted core guardian to be buffed to be a condition dps and not a healer ?

Then you do that. Makes no difference. You don't HAVE to be a healer; that's just what I want. The point is you would be a GUARDIAN, not a firebrand or dragonhunter.

_I'm only discussing PvE, although some of this might apply elsewhere._

Elite specializations have has one significant issue across the board: they reduce the ability to play the core profession. Elites beef up the character too much to ignore. It simply makes playing a core profession undesirable.

To fix this, I think the core specializations should have the ability to be slotted as an elite, and receive a corresponding increase in power to match.

I'm not sure how much more powerful a current elite spec is compared to non-elite ones, but devs must have access to that information. So, if they do, that would make it nearly trivial to do the calculations: just multiply by that percentage.

Getting them to be slotted as elite might be more complicated, though. Perhaps creating a new trait line with the same traits, but a different name might work. Then, disallow using the old and the new together.

I would really like to be able to play a guardian healer as a guardian, but having druids in the game makes that a stripped-down option. Same thing for warriors, necros, and most of the professions.

I have no idea. I've never completed it, so I've never received the rewards. Being impossible to complete makes it hard to discern whether the rewards are worth it.

Ummm, just choose a group that's towards the bottom of the list.

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> As far as I know, Chris Cleary is still here. (There's always only been 1 Dev for the economy.)

>

> As to the items, the Wiki (link above) is your friend. Good luck.

The wiki wasn't my friend for the chili node, because when I bought it, the entry was almost barren of facts.

It turns out the missing entries are because it only shows what is currently available. Also, it is manually updated, so it's going to be out of date a lot during sales.

I just added an entry on the talk page for that page. Usually gets results.

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > I've noticed that some infinite harvesting tools in the gem store are 700 gems, and others are 1000.

> > > >

> > > > What is the difference between those types? I can't see a reason from the descriptions. The all have glyph slots and animations.

> > >

> > > What tools in the gem store are 700 gems? Are they marked as discounted?

> > >

> > > There are bundles, and that of course tend to offer a discount compared to single purchases. Bundles such as the Unbound or Volatile sets costs 2700 gems, or an effective discount of 10% compared to buying 3 single tools.

> > >

> > > There's also a bundle of "plain" unbreakable tools that don't offer any special animation, and correspondingly is slightly cheaper than bundles of those that do: 2400 gems for the set, so 800 gems/tool.

> > >

> > > As for glyphs - all tools, infinite and regular, have a glyph slot except those vendor-bought ones that have a glyph-effect "baked in".

> > > The prices for gem store tools have not been updated after the Glyph system was introduced, so the cost the same as they did before, whether they include a glyph or not.

> >

> > Glitter Bomb Harvesting Tool, and

> > Thresher-Sickle 5000

> >

> > Both are listed at 700 gems on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility (towards the bottom of the utility section).

>

> Strange, I'm pretty sure I've seen at least the glitter bomb at 1000.

> I note that the gem store history of both have their latest appearance as 30% off. I wonder if someone updated their price to what was actually the discounted price.

Could be, but there's also the Chop-It-All Logging Axe at 700. Someone would have had to make the mistake three times.

However, your post got me interested, and I looked at previous versions of the table. There are dozens of items missing from the table now AND the table a year ago. I'm going to flag it on the wiki for someone to take a look.

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > I've noticed that some infinite harvesting tools in the gem store are 700 gems, and others are 1000.

> >

> > What is the difference between those types? I can't see a reason from the descriptions. The all have glyph slots and animations.

>

> What tools in the gem store are 700 gems? Are they marked as discounted?

>

> There are bundles, and that of course tend to offer a discount compared to single purchases. Bundles such as the Unbound or Volatile sets costs 2700 gems, or an effective discount of 10% compared to buying 3 single tools.

>

> There's also a bundle of "plain" unbreakable tools that don't offer any special animation, and correspondingly is slightly cheaper than bundles of those that do: 2400 gems for the set, so 800 gems/tool.

>

> As for glyphs - all tools, infinite and regular, have a glyph slot except those vendor-bought ones that have a glyph-effect "baked in".

> The prices for gem store tools have not been updated after the Glyph system was introduced, so the cost the same as they did before, whether they include a glyph or not.

Glitter Bomb Harvesting Tool, and

Thresher-Sickle 5000

Both are listed at 700 gems on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility (towards the bottom of the utility section).

Thanks!

I think Ol Nik's answer seems correct, but I'm going to wait for a few more posts before marking it. Others might have more suggestions.

I've noticed that some infinite harvesting tools in the gem store are 700 gems, and others are 1000.

What is the difference between those types? I can't see a reason from the descriptions. The all have glyph slots and animations.