Daddicus.6128

My daughter plays with me a lot (for her, that is). I help her out by sending her materials and such. But, I can't send her account-bound stuff, because ... it's account-bound. So I thought, "I wish I could send her a few things, to give her a little jump-start."

Now, I don't know if this is a good idea, or a lame-brained one: sell us a gem-store item that will allow us to transfer a limited selection of account-bound goodies to friends.

Now, I can see how this could be fraught with issues, since there are usually good reasons stuff is account-bound. Hence, the need to make the list of things transferable smaller than the whole list of account-bound items. The amounts allowed would have to also be limited.

Additionally, this could be used by RMTs. But, that's why I would make it a gem-store item: so ANet knows about the transaction. Shining a light on one's RMTs would not be a good idea.

I envision you double-clicking the item, and be presented with a list of things allowed to be sent. You would be allowed to check the boxes next to (say) four of them. Each item would also have numerical limits on the number allowed to be sent (many of them would allow only one to be transferred).

There probably should be a tight limit on how many of these gem-store items you could purchase in a period of time.

Thoughts?

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> Might be a bug. My last three fights started with a vortex on the edge, one in the middle, and one right next to her. My account may be bugged, though, because I can't get one of the achievements to advance. I'll try again tonight.

I think it was a bug. After waiting another day, I was able to get the achievement (by re-doing the first three bosses in tier 1). Then, I watched a couple of Liadri fights, and the vortices were where you guys saw them. So, I'm calling the whole thing one big bug.

I've found a few more items that can't be salvaged, sold, traded, or forged: the three grand sun/wind/lightning catcher items. So, there seems to be precedent, since those require festival tokens and favors. So, my sentiments in this matter have to be tempered a bit. :'(

Might be a bug. My last three fights started with a vortex on the edge, one in the middle, and one right next to her. My account may be bugged, though, because I can't get one of the achievements to advance. I'll try again tonight.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > Yeah I hate it too. It’s so ridiculously difficult any manner of success is almost entirely luck. You have to play it again and again until you get lucky enough to pass each bit, I suppose. When there’s too much to possibly deal with it’s not skill, it’s stupid RNG. Other than this fight and the turai one (which is only a tiny, tiny bit less annoying), this is by far my favorite festival

> >

> > Everything on that fight follows a timer so the entire fight can be predicted. There’s no luck needed for the encounter itself.

>

> This.

>

> There is literally no randomness in that fight. The pattern of the ground aoes, where the light circles spawn, the attacks she uses at different ranges, where the shades spawn, etc. None of it is random.

This is so amazingly easy to falsify, I'm surprised anybody would say it. Just watch any two fights. The first vortex is in a different spot every time.

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > @"Mil.3562" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > > "OMG I GOT A FREE SKIN HOW DARE YOU ANET"

> > > > > > > -op

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please read his post again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He got the skin from doing a chain of achivements, which means he sort of worked for it. Nothing is free. It is free only because the cost has not revealed itself yet.

> > > > >

> > > > > He most probably got the achievements for one of two reasons:

> > > > > a) he enjoyed the content, so he played it and got a skin for free out of it

> > > > > b) he wants to get AP, so he farms achievements aaaaaand got a skin for free out of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Either way, a free skin.

> > > >

> > > > Not really. I did the content so I could get the rewards, like I always do. I would rather be doing fractals. I was dumbfounded when I found out it is worthless (to me).

> > >

> > > Guess you should have checked the reward then. That's on you for doing the content only for the reward, for a reward you don't want. Not going to get much pity here.

> >

> > Brilliant idea. And, how exactly was I supposed to know that it couldn't be salvaged or forged? The entry in the wiki says it NOW, but that's because I wrote it after I learned it.

>

> Actually you are right. I meant that you could have looked at the item, but I hadn't considered the lack of information regarding non-salvageable. Though the point still stands that you did get the skin.

Which is why I was so confused when I received it: typically, you have to salvage exotics to get the skin. Not always, though, so you have a point.

> @"NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > OK, while updating the wiki for the other items I found that can't be salvaged (etc.), I found that the wiki entry for Inquest Apparatus says it CAN be salvaged, yielding 1000 volatile magic. But, the one I have can't be salvaged. Is that a bug?

>

> It should be salvageable. I remember salvaging mine down without any issue.

Sounds like a bug. Thanks.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said:

> > > It's no less useless than a festival mini or tonic reward.

> >

> > But you would know that before you tried for the reward. This item is gear, not a mini, skin, or novelty.

>

> It still changes nothing, because you'd still go for the related achievements to -at the very least- get APs.

In another thread, I discovered that it will be impossible for me to get the AP level needed for the reward I really wanted for APs: the six radiant armor skins. So, I've given up on going for APs any more. They're a side issue now.

OK, while updating the wiki for the other items I found that can't be salvaged (etc.), I found that the wiki entry for Inquest Apparatus says it CAN be salvaged, yielding 1000 volatile magic. But, the one I have can't be salvaged. Is that a bug?

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> No, it's not the same and it's not even close to being the same type of content. Kind of forced comparison.

Actually, it's logically identical. He's referring to the process of the reward-giving, not the content done to achieve the reward. As I understand them, you do raids, get loot from individual bosses, and then a larger reward at the end of a raid. That's functionally identical to this.

More to the point, would you appreciate doing the whole raid, for the purpose of getting a back item as the raid reward, only to find out it was useless (to you)?

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> It _is_ a bit weird that you can't break it down for raw materials, but I also noticed that right-clicking it gives you a 'customize' option similar to what we saw of the new legendary upgrades interface. Perhaps the item is bugged currently? Not being able to sell it doesn't seem strange to me but, on the other hand, you were able to sell [Mini Freezie's Heart](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_Freezie%27s_Heart "Mini Freezie's Heart") which was an achievement for completing Wintersday annuals.

>

> In light of those things, I'd consider the fancy chicken we got this year to be more limited than other exotics and meta rewards because of the inconsistency between them. So not entirely useless, but oddly restricted.

I think all stat-selectable items have "Customize" as an option now. The really odd thing about this one is that there is a "Customize" with no options to customize.

You could be right that this is an oversight.

> @"DaFishBob.6518" said:

> It's no less useless than a festival mini or tonic reward.

But you would know that before you tried for the reward. This item is gear, not a mini, skin, or novelty.

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > It can't be salvaged, sold, or forged, and none of my characters can use it. [...] Please make it useful for SOMETHING.

>

> This goes for many items. If they change it here, they need to change all of those.

>

See my other question, are there ANY other items like this. What I meant by this is other exceptions to the list on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Salvage:

These items cannot be salvaged:

* Some starting equipment

* Items normally salvageable, but are soulbound to a deleted character

* Equipment bought with Karma

* Coin (except cultural armor)

* Equipment received from level rewards or a Level-80 Equipment Package

* Some equipment from story rewards, such as the masterwork weapons in Order weapon containers.

I originally opened up this line of reasoning when someone above stated that I could have looked it up to learn about it. That wasn't possible before I modified the wiki entry for it. Then, I got to thinking, I can't think of any other item, outside of the above exceptions, that can't be sold, traded, forged, nor salvaged. (The wiki page is only referring to salvaging, but that's a discreet subset of what I'm wondering about.

This was a side-tangent to the original discussion, but it's related. It seems to me there was one that I opined about in a previous thread, but I don't think I've run into any others.

Well, it turns out that I actually have a mule dedicated to storing these. So far, I have collected Commander's Victorious Holographic Wings, Mysterious Vine, Mad Memories: Complete Ignition (MM:CI), Inquest Apparatus, Seraph Seraph Protector, and now this one.

MM:CI is one that was received from a festival reward. So, there's at least one precedent. I should have added "not a stepping-stone in a scavenger hunt" to the qualifiers.

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > I received a Diviners Winged Lantern for some "achievement" in the festival. It's a back item with Diviner's stats. It's also totally useless. It can't be salvaged, sold, or forged, and none of my characters can use it.

> > >

> > > What is the idea of having worthless rewards as part of festivals? Especially as the reward from a cumulative achievement? Please make it useful for SOMETHING.

> >

> > It unlocked a skin for you, so it's not "worthless." It's just inconvenient.

> > You also seem to forget that not everyone participating in the festival is a veteran with drawers full of ascended trinkets, so it's certainly valuable to some people (especially core-only players).

> >

> > Would it be better if it also had a vendor value or be usable in the forge or have an additional use? Sure.

> > Still no need to over-dramatize the situation.

>

> You cannot know what value a backpack skin has for someone. It can be very little, close to "worthless". But, let's suppose it is not worthless. Being "inconvenient" is even worst than "worthless". "Inconvenience" is even lower on the enjoyment scale than "nothing". Being unable to salvage it/sell it to a vendor turns this "inconvenience" into a frustration. This is not the only situation when the best use for a "reward" is to destroy it. But you spend some effort in this (click / confirm / maybe type the name) than in the situation you receive nothing. As I said before, "inconvenience" is even worst than "nothing".

>

> And now let's make a small imagination effort startig from the next statement:

>

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

>

> > He most probably got the achievements for one of two reasons:

> > a) he enjoyed the content, so he played it and got a skin for free out of it

> > b) he wants to get AP, so he farms achievements aaaaaand got a skin for free out of it.

> >

> > Either way, a free skin.

>

> Let's substitute "the festival" with "the raids". I suppose the raiders enjoy the content. They get AP from raiding. And now, le't suppose that after clearing all the wings from the HoT raids they receive the LI for every boss AND, once they complete the raid A SINGLE extra reward consisting in an exotic backpack. Not salvageable, impossible to sell, having the option to destroy it - but only after clicking/confirming/typing the name.

>

> What do you say? It is the same reward in a different situation.

>

> I don't know how some players can find "wisdom" (to quote our Silvary race) in a reward giving you a sentiment of frustration (because the best use for that "reward" is to destroy it).

Exactly.

Guys, think about this: what other exotic gear is excluded from being sold, traded, salvaged, or forged?

There are VERY few, and the ones that do usually have a reason behind it (like, the free armor you get from a level 80 boost, stuff you get from leveling up, or stuff you buy from a karma merchant.) The wiki's salvage page has a list, and none of them apply here.

Can anybody think of any other rewarded gear that is like this? I'm sure there must be, but I can't think of any.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> and here I thought Diviner gear was great for Quickbrand, Alacrigrade and chrono...

>

> I guess I was wrong. /s

Perhaps, but all 28 of my mains already have ascended back items with stats matching their builds. One even has Diviner's (a Chronomancer.)

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > The drop rates haven't changed.

> > >

> >

> > How do you know this?

>

> for this month's chest? I don't.

> For other month's, I collect data from people posting results about their drops and collate and compare. The chance of uncommon or better at 10% hasn't changed, near as I can tell, since ANet swapped to the current "seasonal chest" format.

>

> It's not 100% conclusive because reliable sources that publish all the drops accurately are rare, so the counts aren't as high as I'd like. There's not enough data, for example, to decide if the drop rates for each item within a rarity level are comparable or not. But it's enough to compare common vs uncommon vs rare.

>

> More importantly, though: any claim that the rates have changed has never been backed up by any evidence, only by anecdotes.

Sounds good. I was just wondering if you had inside information.

I recommend using a disclaimer in your first post in a thread about data. You have one later on, but I replied before I saw that one.

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Mil.3562" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > "OMG I GOT A FREE SKIN HOW DARE YOU ANET"

> > > > > -op

> > > >

> > > > Please read his post again.

> > > >

> > > > He got the skin from doing a chain of achivements, which means he sort of worked for it. Nothing is free. It is free only because the cost has not revealed itself yet.

> > >

> > > He most probably got the achievements for one of two reasons:

> > > a) he enjoyed the content, so he played it and got a skin for free out of it

> > > b) he wants to get AP, so he farms achievements aaaaaand got a skin for free out of it.

> > >

> > > Either way, a free skin.

> >

> > Not really. I did the content so I could get the rewards, like I always do. I would rather be doing fractals. I was dumbfounded when I found out it is worthless (to me).

>

> You should correct your original post, though you did point out that it's not usable by any of your characters, you still stated it's totally useless when in fact it is not "totally" useless. To you yes, but it might be useful to someone...nothing is totally useless(no matter how much we like to think so, something might be totally useless to that person, but someone, somewhere might and most likely will find it useful). This is a common fallacy that I see stated at least once a day in all walks of life.

Can I somehow get it into someone else's hands? If not, THAT ITEM is useless. Learn your logic before spouting false fallacies.

An over-arching meta's reward should have value to EVERYBODY, not just some people.

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > A skin? A skin for a meta-achievement?

> That's very often the tangible reward for meta achievements, especially for festivals. Why does this surprise you?

>

> > I suppose I could consider it a valuable skin,

> The problem is you didn't complain about it being insufficiently valuable; you claimed it was worthless..

>

> > since it's value as back armor is zero.

> You mean that you can't think of a use for it. It's value as back armor is more than zero for those interested in builds using those stats.

>

> > But, this is the final reward in the annual meta for a festival.

> Yes, it is.

>

> > It should have at least SOME value.

> It has some value. You just don't consider it important, which is different.

>

> > It's not even valuable as a skin.

> Then explain how else you can obtain that skin other than via completing the umbrella achievement for the festival?

>

> And by the way: keep in mind that this is _in addition_ to all the rewards you've gotten for doing the component achievements.

>

>

You just always have an answer, don't you. "Valuable skin" is sarcasm. It has no value as a skin, because I can't sell it.

Stop being such a fanboy and think like a player.

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Mil.3562" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > "OMG I GOT A FREE SKIN HOW DARE YOU ANET"

> > > > > -op

> > > >

> > > > Please read his post again.

> > > >

> > > > He got the skin from doing a chain of achivements, which means he sort of worked for it. Nothing is free. It is free only because the cost has not revealed itself yet.

> > >

> > > He most probably got the achievements for one of two reasons:

> > > a) he enjoyed the content, so he played it and got a skin for free out of it

> > > b) he wants to get AP, so he farms achievements aaaaaand got a skin for free out of it.

> > >

> > > Either way, a free skin.

> >

> > Not really. I did the content so I could get the rewards, like I always do. I would rather be doing fractals. I was dumbfounded when I found out it is worthless (to me).

>

> Guess you should have checked the reward then. That's on you for doing the content only for the reward, for a reward you don't want. Not going to get much pity here.

Brilliant idea. And, how exactly was I supposed to know that it couldn't be salvaged or forged? The entry in the wiki says it NOW, but that's because I wrote it after I learned it.

Well, it's not just fractals. Queen's Gauntlet does it, too. Fortunately, it kills them all as you're leaving a battle, not when you enter.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Mil.3562" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > "OMG I GOT A FREE SKIN HOW DARE YOU ANET"

> > > -op

> >

> > Please read his post again.

> >

> > He got the skin from doing a chain of achivements, which means he sort of worked for it. Nothing is free. It is free only because the cost has not revealed itself yet.

>

> He most probably got the achievements for one of two reasons:

> a) he enjoyed the content, so he played it and got a skin for free out of it

> b) he wants to get AP, so he farms achievements aaaaaand got a skin for free out of it.

>

> Either way, a free skin.

Not really. I did the content so I could get the rewards, like I always do. I would rather be doing fractals. I was dumbfounded when I found out it is worthless (to me).

A skin? A skin for a meta-achievement?

I suppose I could consider it a valuable skin, since it's value as back armor is zero. But, this is the final reward in the annual meta for a festival. It should have at least SOME value. It's not even valuable as a skin.

I received a Diviners Winged Lantern for some "achievement" in the festival. It's a back item with Diviner's stats. It's also totally useless. It can't be salvaged, sold, or forged, and none of my characters can use it.

What is the idea of having worthless rewards as part of festivals? Especially as the reward from a cumulative achievement? Please make it useful for SOMETHING.

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> The drop rates haven't changed.

>

How do you know this?