Kuma.1503

PvP Queues be like ☑☑☑☑☑☑☑☑☑☐

I have a potential suggestion. I'm curious what others might think of it. What if Anet updated poison with a new effect. Reduces healing by 33%, further increased to 66% against downed targets. What this means is that poisoning a downstate body becomes a viable means of counterplay when dealing with rez skills. If my mental math is correct, this will prevent them from rezing even if the rez skill is cast immediately. I'm not sure about the exact number, but perhaps this is one avenue Anet could take.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Aanyway, in conclusion, most stat types in this game have a place. Perhaps not in endgame PvE, but theres so much more to this game than raids and fractals. > > > > I think this is the most important takeaway from this thread. > > Metabattle and Snowcrows and such aren't the only available builds in this game, yet people always seem to act like nothing except that is viable. Those builds are for Raids and raids only. Maybe fractals, but those are just the 2 gamemodes available, each one has a different set of stats that might be more useful, plus, as seen above, some other stats than only "raid approved" can be just as viable if not more due to what else you get to bring to the table. > > What's more - metabattle has some really downright stupid ineffective builds listed that make no sense, and people just copy those without a thought and just run with it, then wonder why it's not working that great. I see those sites as kind of a starting points for people who are maybe struggling. Like, see what they put out, understand how and why it works, sometimes they do have great explanations on synergies, and then just go from there, make your own, play around with sets, traits, etc. It's a great learning tool maybe, but certainly not "be all end all". > > Like, recently, i made myself a Chronomancer build i named *"The Crit Kitten"* (i'm playing a Charr), and it's focused on a mix of Assassin's armor+weapons with Marauder trinkets and backpack. Chronomancer runes, precision sigils and the precision stacking one on greatsword. Might on crit generation one on Sword/Sword. And it's amazing! Just what i needed to freshen up from my usual Minstrel's WvW support (which i also built myself, i don't use the metabattle one). Hell, i even ran Minstrel's in open world and dungeons. Fights take an hour but i can't be killed, that's a plus i guess lol. I ran the Wintersday Strike standing in one spot not bothering to even move just facetanking all the damage while healing myself with inspiration traitline and Minstrel's. And anyone who was near me would of ocurse get alacrity and healing from my wells. I could have done the same in Wanderer's, trading some healing power for some damage, and it would have been just as fun. > > I crit all of the time, my clones crit all of the time *and* apply bleeding when they do it, i have some easy quickness generation for some more bursty stuff and most mobs up to and sometimes including elites, just melt. There's constant bleed being applied, with phantasms high damage and shatters, it's like a constant assault. If i wasn't an idiot when it comes to dodging i would probably be able to solo Champions with it, it's really fun to play! > Is it the most DPS i could have gotten out of whatever i built? Probably not. But it's useful in just about any situation and if i had Ascended stuff on it, i bet i could run Fractals with it too. I even ran WvW blobs with it! > > But what's beautiful about it is, i can swap Marauders for maybe Commander's or Diviner's for more concentration, giving me more quickness and alacrity to sacrifice some of the bleed application for quicker cooldowns, allowing me to use my skills more often and faster, maybe getting more damage output that way. Or i could get some Bringer's or Viper's in the mix to get more out of that bleed i apply! > > There's many fun combinations with stats you can do, and anyone who says X stat combo is useless is either a hardcore Raider or has no imagination. > There's so much fun stuff you can do with builds, it's ridiculous! Interesting, I may have to give that Chronomancer build a try. One thing I like about Marauder gear is that it has Precision as the primary stat. It makes it easier to crit cap, which makes it less of a dps loss than one might expect over Berserker. Oh boy though, do I have bone to pick with metabattle. It's funny you mention Chrono because the Minstrel build is the one of the worst offenders I've seen yet. Why, on a build with some of the lowest sustain in the game, would they **ever** run Minstrel gear? The reccomended build doesn't even run inspiration, so 90% of your self healing is coming from your heal skill. Is it worth completely forgoing damage just to heal for ~2000 more on your heal skill? I'd argue no. Minstrel is just plain inefficient unless running the Inspiration Traitline. Otherwise, you don't have the healing to take advantage of the healing power. If running the domination variant like Metabattle recommends, you'd be much better off running Wanderer. It has a roughly equal amount of tankiness (swapping Swapping Toughness for Vitality but this is easily made up for with Durability runes), and comes with the added benefit of not completely gimping your dps. You could take that same gear set and roam around in small scale fights while still feeling useful to your group or even do open world content with it with no fear of death.

I don't mind Herald being strong in PvP. Sure, it's been good more often than not, but it also doesn't have much of a place in other game modes even WvW after the nerfs to hammer and road. If PvP is the one place where it gets to shine, then I say let it.

If there's one thing I love about Gw2, it's buildcraft. There are so many stat types that look useless on the surface, but can actually be useful with the right build. Here's just a few examples of builds I've made work: Weaver utilizing a mixture of Marshal and Celestial gear with Antitoxin runes for WvW. It's nigh unkillable 1v1, and I chose to make up for it's lack of pressure with strength and battle sigils, making it easy to stack to 25 might by blasting fire fields. This build doubles as my go-to for soloing difficult bounties, Hero Points, or when I'd like a cozy run through HoT. Engineer with a mixture of Wanderer's and Commander's stats. Imagine pre-nerf Prot Holo in PvP. In ran a paladin amulet for a decent mixture for pressure and sustain. Now imagine it with a ton of concentration on top (and about ~200 ferocity because I run berserker weapons), and you have my build. I love this build because it enables so many different fun, solo friendly builds on my engineer. I've found that this is a great mix of stats for soloing fractals, dungeons, and bounties. Flamethrower scrapper that consistently upkeeps 25 might and quickness Prot Holo for soloing bounties, but with near permanent uptime on prot, regen, fury, and might. Regular old scrapper, running the traits: Kinetic Stabilizers, Mass Momentum, and Short fuse. This lets me give myself long durations of stability whenever I CC a mob or deal breakbar damage, might whenever I gain stability, frequent bursts of quickness, and perma fury. Drunk Holo/Scrapper. Chug your elixirs, give yourself every boon in the game (except alacrity), go ham or Static Discharge with Kinetic battery, which lets me sit on a permenant ~17+ seconds of quickness. Note: you could use this same gearset on a Boonbeast to great effect. Some other builds I've ran include: Plaguedoctor Scourge, Saraph+Viper FIrebrand. A good mixture of support and condi damage. Firebrand, I've found, doesn't need vitality to stay alive. You can easily keep yourself topped off with just a small amount of healing power and some concentration. Full-Bringer Deadeye. ... No I'm not kidding. Yes, that was a Bleach pun. Many considered it the worst arc in the series, so I made the worst possible wvw build to ever fight against. If anyone doesn't know what stats bringer gives (I don't blame you, who runs bringer stats?) it's Vitality, Precision, Expertise. If you want to do... anything deadeye is known for like, y'know, damage, this build isn't for you. But, this just so happens to have the **perfect** stat set for a bunker immobilize build. Vitality to ensure that any attempts to swat you away fail, Expertise so that you can spam 2 to your heart's content and keep some poor soul immobilized forever, Precision, so you crits can generate extra malice, allowing you to consistently proc Maleficent Seven. I run this build as a meme when playing WvW with my friends. If anyone tries to mess with us, I lock down the target, they burst them, rinse repeat until they're all dead. Aanyway, in conclusion, most stat types in this game have a place. Perhaps not in endgame PvE, but theres so much more to this game than raids and fractals.

The thing that irks me most isn't that Anet decided to de-powercreep the game. It's how they went about it. If you're going to rip away power, it needs to be done surgically. You need to consider the broader impacts of the changes you're making. Do you want to take away damage on all CC? Fine, but what about skills like Executioner's Scythe, which is supposed to execute targets on low HP? What about heavily telegraphed skills Like Prime Light Beam, which are visually communicated as something that **should** hit hard? It doesn't make sense that a long cooldown elite should have similar impact to your average weapon skill. You could replace it with point blank shot, and it would be a drastic improvement. Then you have other nonsensical nerfs. Why does Grenade Barrage. **The burst skill with the longest cooldown** in the grenade kit, deal less damage than shrapnel grenade? At some point, when you're adjusting numbers, you have to stop and consider: "I know the community asked us to tone down the hard hitters, but if we tone down any further, ithey'll be weaker than the filler skills. Is that good design? Is it intuitive? Is it logical"? If the answer is "no" to all three, that's a bad change. At the end of the day, the only way I can describe the Feb 2020 patch is lazy. Even if the game was in need of a de-power creep, they went about it in all the wrong ways, taking a one size-fits all approach instead of the careful surgical approach that was needed. It would be like if someone said "This table is too tall" and your response was to whack off the legs with a sledgehammer. I believe the patches should be reverted.

> @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > How did you know about my alt account!? > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > Oh, I should mention on the topic of burn guards. You can make some small adjustments to the meta scrapper build, take purity of purpose instead of HGH, run purge gyro instead of Elixir R. Enjoy your permanent aegis. > > > > Really great way to make burn guards want to alt+f4 > I just wish I could do as much burns as guardian with Flamethrower, but somehow someone wacking you with a sword applies more burns then someone blasting you with fire. It makes sense because it's **maaaagical fire**. It's blue so that means it's probably hotter. yeah idk either

I played a ranked game a few hours ago. I was playing core condi mesmer. I noticed mid was stalemated with a scrapper and core shout guard on the opposing team, so I decided to push into far. Along the way, I happened to notice the enemy burn DH rotating into mid. The other 4 members of the enemy team were accounted for, and I was confident I could win the 1v1 if the DH turned around. Now, pop quiz what do you think I did next? If you guessed dodge into the center of the node so that I can tank as much trap damage as possible, you would be **correct!** The DH comes back in time to find me lieing in a pool of shame. He finishes me off and sets up his trap for the next idio-- victim that comes by. Not two seconds later my teamate arrives. Pop quiz, what do you think he did? If you guessed, dodge into the dead center of the node so that he can take as much trap damage as possible you would be **correct again!** The DH didn't even need to hit either of us. So there I lied with my charr buddy, silently contemplating if I should uninstall. If there are *more* people out there who are even half as dumb as me... Well it's no wonder everyone wants DH nerfed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > I'm not a fan of the amulet system to begin with. I'd much rather have a pool of stat points that I'm allowed to allocate however I wish > > Then we would have condi meta because condis need really only 1 stat to work, rest can be invested into survival. One way to help with that. Sigil of cleansing cleanses 1 condition >>> reverted to 3 conditions

I'm not a fan of the amulet system to begin with. I'd much rather have a pool of stat points that I'm allowed to allocate however I wish

How did you know about my alt account!? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Oh, I should mention on the topic of burn guards. You can make some small adjustments to the meta scrapper build, take purity of purpose instead of HGH, run purge gyro instead of Elixir R. Enjoy your permanent aegis. Really great way to make burn guards want to alt+f4

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > 99k? > Downstate bruh. > > Besides burn guard is one if the more easy builds to deal with. > > Wait till yu fight Turret Flamethrower Scrapper. Yup. ... ... ... What? You were expecting me to defend it? I play that build. I know it's dumb.

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > "Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument. > > > > > > > > stop defending your busted especs, i never said it will never happen, but HoT sure speed that up by immediately happening on release and more times in equal time span > At what point did I defend elite specs? My focus has been on the Feb 2020 patch. To be more clear. Elite specs are a factor in bringing us the meta we have now, but that does not mean that, had Anet never created them, we would never have been in a meta similar to this. That was the point I made. HoT, and parts of PoF have shown us that the game is capable of being sufficiently balanced and enjoyable to play in spite of, or arguably because of Elite specs. Instead of focusing on that, I chose instead to focus on the patch **directly responsible** for slowing the game down. That was its intended goal, and it pushed too far. It and the subsequent patches which have shared the same direction.

"Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument.

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) > > u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine and meta like these would never happen. > > mechanically wise, every single espec are busted with exception of berserker after removing core burst skill, mechanically wise, berserker is lesser then core war. > You're looking at a snapshot of an old meta, frozen in time. We can't turn back the clock and see what would have happened to a [pre- HoT meta]( ) after years of balancing. It may very well have been the case that after years of Forum QQ, power dip may have put us in a similar spot we're in now. What we can say with certainty is that the Feb 2020 patch represents a drastic swing in tempo for pvp. This patch was directly responsible for slowing down fights, lowering dps, legnthening cooldowns, and removing tools players had at their disposal for countering tactics like this (e.g. hard nerfing many sources of might and quickness). Meanwhile I've been crying since before the patch hit "Stop! Think of the long term consequences!" I've seen this all happen before. Ah well, the forums got what they asked for.

Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh Feb 2020 was a mistake :^)

> @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > This actually brings up something very funny. Did you that, after the nerfs, Shrapnel Grenade does more damage than grenade barrage? > > Even without factoring in the bleed. Good ol' Anet balancing. Makes perfect sense. > > Yes, and it's sad to see. > > > That aside, the build runs marauder for a very good reason, and that's because, while engi can get away with zerker amulet thanks to it's higher base hp (18k if running explosives), the scepter warhorn build really wants the extra vitality from marauder amulet, because otherwise you will **explode** if a thief or power rev so much as looks at you funny. > > For a more realistic test, i'd reccomend running it with marauder amulet. Also for a laugh, try the engi burst with shrapnel grenade instead of barrage. > > You're missing the point. Lightning Orb is over the top. Single target damage and team fight damage. > > How fast you do or do not die to a thief does not validate a broken skill. If Tempest is truly lacking in other areas, buff those. > > > > I see where you're coming from. When it comes to doing tests especially, you want your variables to remain consistent. That said, it does warrant noting because skills do not exist in a vacuum. If you don't mind me bringing up smash bros as an example. I mained Charizard back in Smash 4. Now Zard was considered to be one of, if not the worst characters in the entire game. He was riddled with flaws. Large hurtbox, god awful disadvantage state, combo food, and god forbid you opponent crosses up your shield. Because of all these flaws and more, he was not a good character. But Flamethrower? **Busted**. Hey, I noticed you trying to literally exsist offstage. Let me just press B in this specific angle aaand... you're dead. Either that or you took a billion percent for free. In spite of that very obnoxious abuse case, the skill overall wasn't broken. And that's because A. The opponent was putting charizard offstage far more often than he was putting them offstage because he naturally loses neutral interactions and B. This one strength, however good, does not begin to outweigh all of his other cons. In the same way, yes, Zerker tempest can dish out absurd damage with lightning orb, but that build is a gimmick at best because if you get blown up in a teamfight (and you most likely will), your dps drops to zero. ...So you're probaby going to wonder why I bothered saying any of that because in the end, I agree with you. Specifically your last statement. I'd be 100% okay with Anet saying: "Lets tone down lightning orb's abuse cases, but also buff them in other ways". One way you could do that is by changing the skill itself. If it travels faster it won't do as much damage as it does now... and you've just made the skill more consistent. Less obnoxious abuse case. It won't deal nearly as much damage, but it would probably still be a net buff overall because it becomes usable in a 1v1.

> @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > I apologize for the misunderstanding. I read over your post a few times, but I'm not sure I completely understand the contradiction you're pointing out. > > To clarify I was making two separate points. > > > > Point A. The skill is balanced in spite of the damage it deals because it's extremely slow and avoidable. > > > > Point B. If you were to increase the projectile speed of lightning orb, you would also reduce the damage. > > No worries, thanks for taking the time to read it a few times even. I understood your point about increasing the speed and I agreed, it might help. > > The contradiction (at least in my mind) was with how you valued speed and really isn't that important. > > > Finally point 3... > > I understand what you're saying and agree that getting hit repeatedly by Lightning Orb should chunk you. Chunk, not kill. > > Regarding teamfights, I think you're selling its long range, multi-hit, and auto-targeting qualities vastly short. To focus only on the damage aspect, I tested Grenade Barrage using my berserker Engi and Lightning Orb using your build with berserker amulet. On the Heavy Golem pack in HOTM, Grenade Barrage did 17,079 damage. Lightning Orb did 19,891 damage. Note that these are _ideal_ conditions for Grenade Barrage: 5 targets hit by all grenades. Lightning Orb does this level of damage almost regardless of target number. > > Based on my test, your claim about team fights is wrong, especially for "average" AoE. > > I can't comment on whether Tempest needs a rework to offset dependence on a broken skill like Lightning Orb, but that's a separate issue. > This actually brings up something very funny. Did you that, after the nerfs, Shrapnel Grenade does more damage than grenade barrage? Even without factoring in the bleed. Good ol' Anet balancing. Makes perfect sense. That aside, the build runs marauder for a very good reason, and that's because, while engi can get away with zerker amulet thanks to it's higher base hp (18k if running explosives), the scepter warhorn build really wants the extra vitality from marauder amulet, because otherwise you will **explode** if a thief or power rev so much as looks at you funny. For a more realistic test, i'd reccomend running it with marauder amulet. Also for a laugh, try the engi burst with shrapnel grenade instead of barrage.

> @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > We can kill two birds with one stone here. > > > > Increase the speed lightning orb travels by double or more. Leave the rate at which it fires projectiles the same. > > The end result is less total hits, less damage, but the skill can actually hit someone who is paying attention. > > > > That said, the skill in its current state is fine for a number of reasons. > > > > 1. It is **very** easy to avoid. You don't even need to use a dodge, just walk perpendicular to the skill and it won't hit you. > > 2. In a teamfight, it's more difficult to notice it among all the noise, but it will also spread out its damage among all targets in range, resulting in less damage per target > > 3. In a 1v1 where it can actually down someone, it's trivially easy to avoid. > > > > It's one of those skills that seems rediculous on paper, but doesn't pose many issues in practice. It's a slow moving nuke trading speed and consistency for raw power. These kinds of skills are fine to have in a game, and tend to be some of the more fair/balanced skills in spite of their power in ideal scenarios. It would benefit from a more noticeable animation though. > > The speed increase might help. I believe you contradicted yourself saying more speed would reduce damage at first, but also say it's a nuke that traded speed for power. > > I don't see the difference between reasons 1 and 3. > > I also believe it's narrow-minded to say it's trivial to avoid. Endurance isn't infinite, stuns exist, and movement may be restricted in corridors or to important conquest nodes. > * 100 Blades was trivial to avoid until paired with Bulls Charge > * 100 Nades kit swap ability was trivial to avoid until paired with Magnet > * DH traps are trivial to avoid until paired with Maw > * Etc > > I stand firm that no one skill should be able to 100 - 0 you this quickly. Yes, big damage skills should have more noticeable animations. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I read over your post a few times, but I'm not sure I completely understand the contradiction you're pointing out. To clarify I was making two separate points. Point A. The skill is balanced in spite of the damage it deals because it's extremely slow and avoidable. Point B. If you were to increase the projectile speed of lightning orb, you would also reduce the damage. The reason why increasing projectile velocity would reduce the damage is because when lightning orb is within range of an enemy, it fires projectiles at them at a fixed rate. If the orb moves more quickly, it will be within your vicinity for a shorter amount of time, therefore it shoots a smaller number of projectiles at you. This change would accomplish two things. 1. Reduce the damage lightning orb deals 2. Increase the consistency in which the skill lands. Smoothing out the two extremes in which the skill either A. Doesn't land and does no damage or B. Manages to land its full damage against one target and chunks them. ------------------------------------------- In regards to your second point... you're right, reasons 1 and 3 were redundant. ----------------------------------------- Finally point 3... I'd like to start by saying... Lightning orb **does** hit hard. Like, oh, boy, does it hit hard. But the difference between a warhorn tempest and a warrior or DH is the potency and/or amount of CC both have. DH can set up its damage with dragon's maw or Chains of light Warrior has Shield bash, Bulls Charge, Headbutt, ect. How does a warhorn tempest set up into lightning orb? For context, because I play a fair bit of warhorn tempest whenever I want to have fun, this is the build I commonly use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGAFsEGaYZCsOmHbkdilzkVbD-z5IeGZqCCYKYiB Because I'm so squishy, it helps to have mist form as a "Oh f***" button and Lightning Flash to reposition or make aggressive plays. Earth Shield is there to prevent the enemy team from simply focusing me in teamfights. Whenever I'm the primary focus, I can simply pull it out and kite them around, buying my team enough time to get a lead in damage. What the build lacks is a way to set up lightning orb on it's own. Cyclone's pull doesn't last long enough. The pull from Earth shield also does not last long enough, and is easy to avoid. Magnetic surge is a daze, not a stun. My best bet is to hit the final pulse of my Earth overload, and then swap into Air (while still under the influence of Transcendent tempest) and cast Lightning orb, but this is **extremely easy** to see coming. If you see a tempest earth overloading, and you do not dodge the final pulse, and worse, don't cleanse the immob, you deserve what comes next. For this reason, if lightning orb lands, it's safe to say, my opponent misplayed and deserves to get chunked. As for the argument "It lands more consistently in teamfights". There are **much** harder hitting skills in teamfights. Lightning Orb damage is absurd when it hits an isolated target (and y'know... actually **hits**) but in a teamfight, you can do more damage with your average AoE. A Barrage on node, A reaper dropping well of darkness or using soul spiral, ect. AoE skills easily outperform lightning orb in terms of dps in teamfights.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > What even is this forum any more??? > > "Symbol of punishment does 18k damage" > > "Ranger has almost no stability access" > > I'm coming to realise that this entire forum is an experiment in AI designed to troll me. You live in a simulation. Nothing is real. Wake up! Wake up and find the tru-- *deleting file. . . Kuma_1503.exe* *opening. . . post_forum_gw_68932.doc*. . . This is really a non-issue here. The joke is "just dodge" but in this case the solution is "just walk".

We've already had two people coming to the forums, bright eyed and excited to try out their old build/class in PvP. Only to realize it got dumpstered in one of the many nerf patches. "De-powercreeping" is one of the worst things that has happened to pvp. All we've done is trade one extreme for another (less fun) extreme, and people are leaving because of it.

What if the rune looked like this Rune of the Covenant 1. 25 power 2. +2% Boon Duration 3. 75 Power 4. +3% Boon Duration 5. +100 Condition Damage 6. Gain 3sec Stealth and Superspeed upon activating a signet. Signet effects are reversed while they are recharging. Meaning while your signet recharges, if it would give you +25% MS you get -25% MS. If it would give you +180 power you get -180 power. Signet of Inspiration gives the corrupted variant of whatever boon it would grant. (e.g. Instead of Swiftness + Alacrity it gives Cripple + Chill) For Eles with [Written in Stone](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Written_in_Stone) these effects would cancel out to zero.

I was going to respond to the post Trevor sent but I don't see it anymore. Was there mod action taken? There didn't seem to be anything wrong with it. Anyway, I can understand the frustration. Going out of your way to explain your reasoning in as much detail as possible only for someone to hit you with a "lol too long didn't read" and provide a one sentence rebuttal that you've already countered within the post itself. Any hopes of productive conversation just grinds to a halt at that point. If it's worth anything, something I learned from far better debaters than myself is that once someone makes takes a public stance, they're much less likely to go back on it because they feel like they're locked in. Admitting you're wrong almost makes you feel foolish, like you've "lost". But the points you make aren't just for the person you're conversing with, it's for anyone else who happens to be keeping up with the conversation. If you do a good job of explaining yourself, you might manage to change other minds by proxy. You've managed to do that with me on more than one occasion. I quite enjoy reading your walls of text.

I'm going to sound like a parrot at this point but: QQ Nerf Thread Template: "Nerf X it can [insert list of pros while conveniently ignoring cons]. It's broken and needs a nerf." Snark aside, the reason why Renegade can do so much is because of the way the Revenant class is balanced. Pro: You have a deep bag of tricks that allow you to adapt to a wide variety of situations Con: Your tricks come with hefty energy costs. You're the only class where your utilities share a resource with your weapon skills.

We can kill two birds with one stone here. Increase the speed lightning orb travels by double or more. Leave the rate at which it fires projectiles the same. The end result is less total hits, less damage, but the skill can actually hit someone who is paying attention. That said, the skill in its current state is fine for a number of reasons. 1. It is **very** easy to avoid. You don't even need to use a dodge, just walk perpendicular to the skill and it won't hit you. 2. In a teamfight, it's more difficult to notice it among all the noise, but it will also spread out its damage among all targets in range, resulting in less damage per target 3. In a 1v1 where it can actually down someone, it's trivially easy to avoid. It's one of those skills that seems rediculous on paper, but doesn't pose many issues in practice. It's a slow moving nuke trading speed and consistency for raw power. These kinds of skills are fine to have in a game, and tend to be some of the more fair/balanced skills in spite of their power in ideal scenarios. It would benefit from a more noticeable animation though.