Shirlias.8104

> @Kapax.3801 said:

> Seriously, the solution is easy, Normal mode / Challenge mode

>

> Normal mode, casual players.

> Challenge mode, demanding players.

>

> In this way the casuals will be happy with their "light way of playing".

> and the elitists will be happy to be the Arians of GW2...

Then Normal mode players will start to pretend rewards.

Let's be honest raid are not impossibile, and players want to Tag with other in order to get carried ( most of em ). There is no effort at all.

@"Cynn.1659" : thank you.

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > So the tl;dr is that you want to buy the HoT legendaries? I can get behind that.

>

> I wonder why Gen 1 are available for sale but Gen 2 are not? I've read so many posts trying to wrap my little brain around it, but so far no one has come up with a good sound reason.

I know it sucks, but ANET want that you play the game ( or to say it better, do specific time sink tasks ) in order to achieve leggies.

This is the only reason.

You managed to get rich by playing the game the way you want?

You can't get your leggie unless you play some specific content, though you could have the golds needed.

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> Not to the degree of what i see in gw2. And every time i try to debate this with other people they just get even more entrenched in there beliefs.

I can accept this point of view, but even if gw2 is way worse than the others mmo the fact remains.

> Granted i have no way how to solve this issue other then getting every raider to play another mmo for a long period of time.

I doubt it would change a thing about.

I guess that pugs fail some encounters even with a meta squad, and because of that they will try to reduce that possibility the more they can.

I feel that probably would be the opposite instead.

Players, wipe after wipe, will manage to try with a meta build... then they will find themselves dead because of team mates with non meta build.

At that point they will start to realize that, in a pug context, it's better to build up a good team, and it's not selfish to search for players which use meta builds.

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> >

> >

> >

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> >

> > Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

> >

> > GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

> > Don't even mention the stronghold season.

> >

> >

>

> I have Undefeated/Eternal title from Vale.. If i was carried I would of been one shotted and not gotten the title, but I didnt die and have the title, Or does that skill not translate either because its not ALL the raids in gw2.. Nothing convinces you guys... This is why people are complaining and need the raids to change, if someone who is skilled like me can have such a hard time, imagine how others who aren't as skill must fair

You got a title, and 1 achievement.

So?

Guess how many ppl managed to have that one?

I don't get your point at all.

I mean... no, really i don't know.

However, I was refering to what you said about wow and legend spvp, and explain ed how it works ( you can check wow now and see for every boss how many try the guild needed, and for spvp...Let us forget about that part ).

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> OP is kinda right this is not the type of game that supposed to have a rigid meta, by designer and by difficulty of fights. I think the elitism here on face is kitten due to the type of MMO this is. The average end game content like CMs, don't hold a candle like the end game of FF14/TERA yet the community is like a billion times more intolerant. It truly perplexes me to this day.

Because they want to be sure to take the easiest path above everything else?

It's pretty common in both games and reality.

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

Don't even mention the stronghold season.

> @fewfield.7802 said:

> Altough I dont play fotm and raid anymore i still need ascended to maximize my stats for wvw(even it affects not that much to the gameplay) and some twinky stuffs or cool skins to fulfill my own taste of uniqueness and fashion XD

I do understand, but think of it as something to do while you play, not as main goal ( the difference is not that big ).

It's ok for me too.

GW2 is a filler game after all, and unless you farm it in a rush, you will have 3 months to enjoy it while playing other games, or simply without playing everyday.

> @IcyTear.6378 said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > > @IcyTear.6378 said:

> >

> > > - The point in rewarding people for helping new players is encourage them to do that . It's very simple as 1 + 1 = 2 . What is the point of questioned ?

> > > - Well , you might be a good guy who's very friendly and always happy in helping people for nothing but i'm not . I'm not a Saint , i could help my friends , my guild members but help a stranger , a lot of strangers for nothing - I said no .

> > > - This will not be the situation i proposed . Do you know why ? Cause reward could adjust in an acceptable number . I know my idea could not be optimal but we could discuss , right ?

> >

> > No you don't understand.

> >

> > We don't have to reward players for carrying noobs to raid.

> > Currently the situation is that raid are sold for Ectos ( Mostly ANET's fault with the Raid mastery which forbidden you from gettin ss, but now it should be fine ), and if you allow players to gain rewards with no delay you can exploit the timegate set for the legendary armor ( which ALL the other modalities have ), and also push toward raidselling or farming.

> >

> > It won't help anybody.

> >

> > It seems that the suggestion is made for somebody which already raids and want more rewards or to rush the legendary armor.

> >

>

> No you don't understand .

>

> Why we don't have to reward players for carried noob to raid ? At home when you help your mother your sister ... , do receive anything ? A cake , something or a simple thanks could count as a reward .

>

> Currently the situation is raid seller . You're are right . Do you know why ? Because there's no one willing helping them that why they have to buy raid kill .

>

> As i said , reward could adjust in an acceptable number . Example : after first kill and get full reward . The second kill will just give you shards and reward minus Li . The third kill is just shards , fourth kill is shards - 5 ......

>

>

>

Dude, they won't give advantages to sellers.

If players wants to help each others they can do it without rewards.

It makes me sick to see that there should be some extra in order to push players to help newcomers.

Also you still don't get the part about raid sellers.

Now they sell, after with an even greater reward they are going to sell even more.

If you can't accept this scenario you are definitely blind.

Here you are pretending that ANET gives you something which suggests you to bring into your raid people who didn't complete the run.

Want to help a new player? Do it.

Don't want because you don't have anything back? Don't do it.

Also guild could farm bringing each other member if they would with your system.

> @IcyTear.6378 said:

> - The point in rewarding people for helping new players is encourage them to do that . It's very simple as 1 + 1 = 2 . What is the point of questioned ?

> - Well , you might be a good guy who's very friendly and always happy in helping people for nothing but i'm not . I'm not a Saint , i could help my friends , my guild members but help a stranger , a lot of strangers for nothing - I said no .

> - This will not be the situation i proposed . Do you know why ? Cause reward could adjust in an acceptable number . I know my idea could not be optimal but we could discuss , right ?

No you don't understand.

We don't have to reward players for carrying noobs to raid.

Currently the situation is that raid are sold for Ectos ( Mostly ANET's fault with the Raid mastery which forbidden you from gettin ss, but now it should be fine ), and if you allow players to gain rewards with no delay you can exploit the timegate set for the legendary armor ( which ALL the other modalities have ), and also push toward raidselling or farming.

It won't help anybody.

It seems that the suggestion is made for somebody which already raids and want more rewards or to rush the legendary armor.

> @fewfield.7802 said:

> Can I have some challenge World Bosses that need more well organized **and provide reasonable reward.**


There are some fights which was reworked and needs a little bit of strategy, but you must consider that even simple fights like **Triple Trouble** or **Serpent's Ire** can be avoided due the fact that some players

* Are afk, just hit randomly to tag.

* don't know the boss mechanics.

* Stay dead and don't release.

* Are, overall, a malus for those who play the event in a proper manner ( since the event scales with the number of players ).

Sometimes an event like Tequatl can fail because many players don't know how to turret and in these years managed only to DPS DPS DPS.

And talking about Tequatl, after years, just a few seconds before the landing DPS phases there are no Fire fields, but a spam of useless fields.

So, challenging events do exists but could be difficult to achieve due to community.

As for the reasonable rewards... you can only expect something like Tequatl or TT. 2g + some chests.

Also about your last part

> Plz anet plz consider this point of view. Not everyone want to go play Raid to get more challenge and epic PvE content. There are a lot more ordinary PvE players who dont to raid like me but we still need some epic content to experience

If you don't like Raid or fractals, you don't need things like Ascended or legendary equipment.

All the content is meant to be for exotic geared players, so you only have to enjoy it.

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> There are two sides to it. I do believe there are three kind of people.

> 1: Players who don't have much clue about how builds work at all

> 2: players using builds copied from a website

> 3: players who maybe take inspiration from a website build, but know what they are doing and tweak their build themselfes AND test it.

>

> I think I fall into category 3. Shortly after PoF I decided to switch back to engineer and make her a holosmith. I started with making my own build and then compared it to a build on meta battle. It was for 80% the same. I did use some of these advices to tweak it, but others I did not (some protection I didn't feel I needed). So now it is about 90% the same. I did tested it first in a story mode AC and a Explorable mode AC before using it in e.g. fractals.

>

> The issue with the list above is that people in category 2 often don't have the skills to see if people in category 3 are making the right choices. Pug's are pugs and when things go bad, people will often blame the one who didnt followed meta. This leads to a believe that anything not meta is bad.

I disagree.

There are 2 kind of situation mostly

**First Situation**

> Players part of a guild, which raid together, in a friendly way, and manage week after week ( try after try ) to improve, maybe adjusting their strategy, and finally take down the boss.

Here we have

* A friendly environement

* Affinity with the other members

* Vocal chat and sinergy with the strategy itself ( if there are changes, they are decided by the group of person itself ). You will probably try to fill the slot you are supposed to play at the best you can ( meta build, knowing mechanics and rotations, etc ).

* No problem on Wipes ( since you can try the day or the week after, and it's something which bring ofc frustration, but also the desire to improve and achieve a specific goal altogether ).

**Second Situation**

> Players which Join ( or make up ) a PUG squad in order to make a raid. Most of the people are completely strangers, and the more the raid fails the more the frustration.

Here we have

* A friendly environement UNTIL THE RAID GOES WELL

* No affinity

* Not necessarily vocal chat and probably a raw strategy ( since the classes could be different time after time ) though the bosses mechanics are always the same

* Wipes perceived in a bad way, which brings the player to be frustrated ( if you are also a duckhead you will probably start to flame, being toxic towards your fellas ).

Now, **in the first situation** you could probably play a different build or bring a total stranger ( guilds sell raids, which means they can easily do the content with 1 player less ). You could also achieve a goal with a less efficient build because the teamplay is good.

In the **second situation** you can't rely on sinergy and habits, so it should be a priority for those who want to try to bring the most efficient and High reward/Low risk class/build/equip they can. This because you don't know who you are going to play with, so at least the squad formation must be impeccable.

Your team priority MUST be to reduce the risk to the minimum.

That said player can ask to join, make their own team and so on.

But feeling rejected because a group of total strangers which bring a specific well made build in order to be super efficient don't want to risk by inviting players who have a different build, it's simply selfish.

The best you can do is set up your own team and searching for players whatever the spec.

If you don't and still pretend to be accepted with that build, you are simply saying

> I don't want to learn a specific build, i don't care if they want a meta, i want to be carried by other players and meanwhile play the build i want.

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> And then after curing Elitism Anet could go on and end world hunger and climate warming.

>

>

We are working on the climate warming, but the Norn President Donald Braham still push to kill dragons.

> @IcyTear.6378 said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > It's boosting, not encouraging lol.

> > Also is something related to raidselling ( 300ecto per run ).

> >

> > If you want to help you can do the raid with the new player without claiming your reward... really i can't believe it...

>

> Believe me . If players are encouraged to help newbie , raid seller will disappear like they never exist . Do you know why ? Because everyone will be happy to bring newbie in their group , they don't have to buy raid kill anymore .

What's the point in rewarding people for helping new players?

It should came from them, not because of a reward.

> I would like to help you but i already cleared the content...

This is mostly the current situation, towards new players which not necessarily you know ( guildmates ie ).

> Great job guys! Now we can sell an indefinite number of runs, and farm bosses AOE for loot.

This will be the situation you propose.

PS: i don't know why but seems that you don't link together "those who will bring new players to raid " with "those who sell raids". Also, your proposal will remove timegate from PVE, and this won't happen ( 100 tickets per SPVP season, 365 tickets per WvW week, 13 LI per Week from raids ).

Yes! and please allow us to make scarlet gifts too.

> I swear, this time is definitely a present.

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> After all, otherwise all dps slots would be filled by Weavers and Mirages no?

I don't know. Maybe in order to incrase survavility other classes are required ( firebrand maybe, for average dps and quickness ).

> @sigur.9453 said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > > @Lunarlife.5128 said:

> > > I agree they non meta builds does work. I've done Vale Guardian three different ways and there's a fourth and a fifth I still want to try. I also really want to try an enrage build on Vale where you tank the 200% extra damage. (Would be cool if it was only 50% or 100% because that's more ways to kill the boss while not making it the fastest way so it wouldn't be meta)

> >

> > About that, doesn't a meta raid clear a boss with plenty of time left?

> > I mean, shouldn't this be enough for a not meta raid ( or maybe partially not meta ) to clear every fight?

> >

> > I didn't play any raid, but i watched some videos and streamers and most of the times you happened to end the fight with 2/3 mins left.

>

> you can,you can even solo/duo/5man bosses, but if the commander want´s meta build, you should play one. (there is a reason they want that)

> if you don´t like that, don´t join the group

>

We do all agree on that point ( except some obviously ;) ).

I was talking about the possibility that a raid could achieve a kill with a rng squad ( and since i had no experience in terms of raid but some videos, i simply asked if it was possible ).

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> When someone joins a pug team with a certain profession they are expected to run a meta build, it would be nice to say if you are not and if the build is an actual working one then many more groups would accept that player. That's what the non-meta user can do to help, then it's up to the meta players to be more open and accept different builds in their teams.

But even so, why should the team take you?

There are plenty of players who want to do raid and manage to bring a class with a meta build.

I mean i do agree with you that the one who join the squad would be the one which tell the others that he's playing a different build and that he can manage a decent DPS, this is respectful and friendly towards the others... but even so, why should they bet on you?

You could expect that they kick you but also that they decide to give you a chance, indeed, but even so the best thing would be start a own raid open to everybody and try to manage at least a kill.

This is to me the major issue.

> Players want the kill and put blame on each others if it don't happen, though maybe it's the first time they do the fight, their build is not the most efficient, and their skill is not really above average. This leads to frustration and chain disband.

> @Lunarlife.5128 said:

> I agree they non meta builds does work. I've done Vale Guardian three different ways and there's a fourth and a fifth I still want to try. I also really want to try an enrage build on Vale where you tank the 200% extra damage. (Would be cool if it was only 50% or 100% because that's more ways to kill the boss while not making it the fastest way so it wouldn't be meta)

About that, doesn't a meta raid clear a boss with plenty of time left?

I mean, shouldn't this be enough for a not meta raid ( or maybe partially not meta ) to clear every fight?

I didn't play any raid, but i watched some videos and streamers and most of the times you happened to end the fight with 2/3 mins left.

It's boosting, not encouraging lol.

Also is something related to raidselling ( 300ecto per run ).

If you want to help you can do the raid with the new player without claiming your reward... really i can't believe it...

> @Lunarlife.5128 said:

>**In WoW it's usually because you don't have the kills or experience to do the boss**

In WoW is mostly Equip related.

It's not that players skill themselves during the weeks ( and meanwhile, maybe, bosses get nerfed ).

They obtain better equipment which incrases their DPS, healing and survavility.

The top guilds also try over and over the content, which requires time in adjunct of skill and coordination ( but as everything if you do it many many many times you will eventually become good at it ).

GW2 when the raid is out everybody has the same possibilities.

There's no equipment escalation, and due to the large amount of time the encounters can be done also with not meta builds.

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> ??? Do you even know what that word means?

It was definitely the autocorrector.

It wasn't you who offended the raiders.

I have your back pal.

> @Lunarlife.5128 said:

> 7. Win

> Have to include the win. Did get the 3 ? right though!

Seems a reasonable request.

Another party for the Commander of the Pact!

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > Didn't even read. The title alone says what person you are.

> > > I run minstrel firebrand and I know better than to expect a group who wants meta, to take me.

> > >

> > > So either do

> > > 1. Do not join a meta wanted group.

> > > 2. Start your own party.

> >

> > Now this should be interesting. Just exactly what person do you think I am?

>

> Nice, the one thing you took away from that.

> **You called people sheep for wanting a meta then switched the title**. But before doing that you start attacking the "sheep". That's a bit contradictory.

> Even after they told you why there is a meta, you still could not grasp it.

>

> To answer your question.

>

> You're either the type of person who WANTS his answer to be right or a narcissistic.

Definitely a scapesheep.

Err, scapegoat.

By the way, there are currently 2/3 threads which have in common the topic

> Complains about Raid and those who raid with meta builds, looking for those who have LI, and so on.

Whine apart, i don't get yet what could be a good solution for them ( with them i am refering to those who whine ).

It's like every RPG system.

The choice does not exists ( because there is always a best build to play with ) and still does exist because of the players which wants a progression and the illusion of a choice, though it only leads to balance difficulty.