Burnfall.9573

here is a dual between a Thief Profession player vs a Necromancer Profession player, playing a tank build

'stability', 'Op healing-tank build'.....absolutely nothing couldn't save the Necromancer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRFnPiPMFcw

the question to be asked is, how does a condition base profession dies to a non-condition base profession and being immune to all of its conditions all at the same time?

Example: it's like having a mach 1 aircraft out speeding a mach 6 aircraft and calling it 'balanced', 'good design'

It's Unbelievable what Guild Wars 2 put up with!!

History shows that asking for nerfs, is asking for excuses to not deal with the root cause problem

-once again, Bad Design is screaming all over Thief Profession design-

Thief Profession either need to be completely redesign at once or be immediately removed

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > I've been trying to hammer this in since before the patch dropped. Game-wide nerfs won't magically create a balanced PvP landscape. Outliers will always exsist. Nerf those outliers and classes previously kept in check by said outliers will be come the new OP.

>

> You don't fix the symptoms.you fix the cause. The cause is slow patch cadence.

**+10**


> @"anjo.6143" said:

> There is no intention of nerf on burning? It seems way op

**+1**

-i actually walked into wvw and was baffled and astonished....how can this not be taken seriously?-

how was this not included in the hotfix patch??

there is no serious urge of urgency to remove this Toxicity, that's it!!

yeah, that's it folks!!

-a bad design stealth mechanic is fine, a bad design mesmer/thief profession are fine, an elementalist profession having absolutely no identity is fine, +1 shot is fine, exploiting teleports is fine too...folks...everything is fine as always-

nothing new to see here folks

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> One shot builds are never healthy for the game

**+1**

_healthy competitive games would never put with this Toxicity_

Guild Wars 1 as its prime lead example

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > @"Kronan.6712" said:

> > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > > @"Kronan.6712" said:

> > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And thank you for this thread @"Gondolph.7201" :) It is just a personal point of view, but I do not completely agree about nerfing the thief. Before the "Unbalanced patch" of February 25, same a pretty bad Warrior was able to kill condi thiefs:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And I am not sure that the Warrior is the best to clean condi.

> > > > > > So, for me the issue come from the "Unbalanced patch".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" rights, but not all the thiefs can play as XxkazuyaxXX the master of thieves.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Didnt know Sindrender also went by XxkazuyaxXX

> > > >

> > > > Yes sorry @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" master of thieves was really exaggerated.

> > >

> > > I currently run the condi rifle build (SB for getaways or to stun res's) however this gave me an idea. How do you think the build would be impacted if you used Binding Shadows over Blinding Powder?

> >

> > Swapped my SB for P/D and WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Much Nastier.

>

> Yup. Condi DE with P/D built for torment duration is really quite nasty atm. Pretty fun to hunt condi mirages with it.

-Title is misunderstood-

take a look at this .....too painful to watch (see>NCsoft's Earnings Report as result)

-this is the impact and effect Thief Profession has on potential-new players who enters wvw-tragic

_'you lose more often than you win'_

> regarding symbolbrand what is that floor thing that symbol firebrands put on the floor that does burst dmg?

this?

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> 

>

> somehow 3 characters short

>

this really speak volumes about Thief Profession behavior....i truly understand why they behave this way


_nerfing will not change anything_

**_redesiging is the only way_**

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> PvP ≠ WvW

>

> ANet was right in only applying 90% of these changes to PvP. I mean, what exactly is an immortal signet Necro going to do in WvW? Win duels? Get ping ponged in a zerg for an extra 10 seconds while forgoing almost all of its corrupts? Sure, WvW balance is questionable, but like @"lodjur.1284" said, symbolbrands and signet Necros are not exactly the most glaring issues, and they *did* actually target a very relevant skill for Firebrand in WvW.. This was more of a hotfix than anything for three specs that were clearly dominating the current meta in PvP. **Give the WvW balance some more time; it has been 8 days.**

is it really that hard to apply these changes to WvW as well?

History repeats itself and obviously continues to do so; this is the reason why WvW was ignored in the first place....PvP only is what destroyed it and Anet is doing it all over again

**Pushing players against wall to play PvP for positive changes are more reasons for even more population drop!!**

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!

**PvP Only** -making exceptions to the rule.........continues

WvW is once again being excluded from any positive changes

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> ANet stated long before the patch went live that they planned to do more frequent balance passes to bring things in line. This means bigger/more in depth patches on a more regular schedule which means things like this, Condition Damage, was probably left alone to see how it would perform before giving further updates in the future. I'm sure the same will be done for skills/traits/utilities that aren't performing as ANet thought they might. Maybe X skill had too much damage removed and will get some/all of it's damage back in a future update. Or maybe Y trait didn't get enough of an internal cooldown increase and will see that fixed later on.

>

> Y'all need to relax with these complaints. It's always going to be hectic after a balance patch but after one like this with over 1000 changes I'm amazed so many thought nothing would be problematic. If anything, I think this patch was done very well and a lot of things ( not all ) have been adjusted very nicely.

>

> Chill and wait a while until the next patch. I'm sure other things will get the attention they need by then. It won't be the end of the world if certain classes have obnoxious condition builds for a little while.

SpellOfIniquity.,it's a trend in Guild Wars 2 balancing and you know it :)

we are just calling it out for what it is, that's all

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> It's a common misconception. The patch just made it so, if you want to do a lot of damage, you have to invest into doing a lot of damage. Someone who's full glass with maxed out modifiers and might is still going to knock your block off.

+1

correct

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Sinfullysweet.4517" said:

> > I will just leave this here. I am so beyond tired of babysitting the fire keep from thieves with near perma stealth. Just last night for nearly an hour four of us chased two green de’s with traps, aoe, reveals and with sniff. They had no intention of getting the keep, but with them having access to a portal it was a constant hide and seek game. Fun for the DE’s not so much for the seekers. I jokingly refer to them as rats, and placed “rat” traps out - blue ac’s with mastery skill four - to be bait. Either a) the Zerg on red came through and obliterated the two rats or b) they got tired of the cat and mouse game.

> >

> > Again so tired of babysitting keeps on the desert borderlands. Please rethink the portals.

> >

> > Edit: I have no issue with perma stealth because as a scout and roamer I sacrifice my damage yet can cross ebg in complete stealth to monitor movements of the enemy group. It is useful but portal is really damaging.

>

> **As thief player I don't know why they gave thief a portal, should have remained a mesmer thing. Something aiding them in a fight would have been far better as their evade ability needed no boosts**.

**+1**

wouldn't you also agree that this is why Thief Profession is hated?

-here we have a game which should respect Profession identities and their roles and to have a single Profession taking everything away from them?-

As you mentioned, Mesmer Profession Portal was its uniqueness and what identified it amongst the other professions and what did Anet did, destroyed and robbed them of their identity in favor of another profession who did not need it?

In other word, to please Thief Profession in every way for what????

**-Thief Is Anet Perfect Profession-**

Thief Profession has it all, what more does Anet want to give to this profession??

How much more Power does Anet want to give to this Profession?

**How much more Grandiosity does Anet want to give to this Profession??**

> @"Kragat.5734" said:

> [https://imgur.com/a/YXOWU8d](https://imgur.com/a/YXOWU8d)

imagine Guild Wars 2 without Thief Profession........where there wouldn't be Professions race to Power Creep

-what's been happening is, every professions are trying to outdo each other damages including Thief Profession damages why?-

Example; it's like a weapon arm race, there has to be **One** who have it all.....whom everyone is trying to keep up with

**Thief Profession is the One** whom every professions are trying to keep up with

**that is what make Thief Profession The Most Dangerous Profession In Guild Wars**

---This Is What Make Thief Profesion A Serious Threat To The Stability In Guild Wars---

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I knew it. heartseek OP

> **nerf teef**

> @"sayori.4836" said:

> Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed.

> Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder.

> And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again.

> This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.

>

> 

>

**+1**

**Thief Profession Immunity To Nerfings continues.....**

Heartseeker

(notice the date>>>>**Sep 7, 2012**<<<<)

Backstab

(notice the date>>>>**Nov 14, 2012**<<<<)

-this really never gets old-

8 years later.........**WHERE ARE THE 'NERFS!!!!!''????**

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > > That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?

> > > > > ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

> > > >

> > > > Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

> > > >

> > > > The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

> > > >

> > > > -No Lessons Were Learned-

> > > >

> > > > 1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot

> > > > 2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic

> > > > 3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth

> > > > 4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth

> > > > 5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic

> > > > 6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable

> > > > 7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

> > > >

> > > > The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

> > > >

> > > > **until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity**

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > >

> > > As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

> > >

> > > On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

> >

> > Solomon-Proverb are everyday applicable lessons.and guidlines. The quote I used are the lessons of repetitions and the reality of continual unlearned lessons.and seeing it for what it is

> >

> > Speaking of God, God want his words to be applicable through actions, not by words. With growth through learning and telling us the harsh reality when they aren't meet.

> >

> > We are human afterall including Anet and us players. We all make mistakes and the results of it are by our actions.

> >

> > Words not action will turn things arround. Until than, this is the reality and the casualities when serious actions are continually being thrown under the rug.

> >

> > The main lesson here us, 'Nothing Will Change If You Don't Change'

> >

> > '"Thief Profession will never be healthy or competitive to the game and it's community unless f its redesigned'"

>

> You're right in a sense about the book of proverbs, although that book has an underlying theme too, read chapters 1 to 3 through in one sitting and you'll see that it's not just a collection of wise sayings. That quote however is from Ecclesiastes, which shows the futility of man's work and of living for any reason other than to glorify God. Applying that quote to an MMO is really not the right context at all haha

**+1**


you are right, i was wrong. I will learn my lessons from now on

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?

> > > ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

> >

> > Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

> >

> > The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

> >

> > -No Lessons Were Learned-

> >

> > 1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot

> > 2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic

> > 3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth

> > 4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth

> > 5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic

> > 6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable

> > 7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

> >

> > The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

> >

> > **until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity**

> >

> > 

> >

>

> As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

>

> On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

Solomon-Proverb are everyday applicable lessons.and guidlines. The quote I used are the lessons of repetitions and the reality of continual unlearned lessons.and seeing it for what it is

Speaking of God, God want his words to be applicable through actions, not by words. With growth through learning and telling us the harsh reality when they aren't meet.

We are human after all including Anet and us players. We all make mistakes and the results of it are through our actions.

Words not action will turn things around. Until than, this is the reality and the casualties when serious actions are continually being thrown under the rug.

The main lesson here is, 'Nothing Will Change If You Don't Change'

'"Thief Profession will never change if it is not redesigned'"

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?

> ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

-No Lessons Were Learned-

1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot

2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic

3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth

4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth

5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic

6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable

7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

**until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity**


> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself. **I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been**. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming.. **yet anet seems to dont care.**

**+1**

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-**current build variations included**-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

**Redesign Is The Only Way**

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> So before patch hit everyone was saying condi was gonna be meta. Funny. I don't see any condi players. Mirage / necro was primary condi specs, and mirage got big nerf so I don't see much of those at all. Yea there are condi revs, but for blobs it's mostly the same, it seems. Fbs and necros with revenants.

>

> And roaming? Dominated by rangers, thieves and guardians/ DH all playing power.

> 1shot rangers and vault spamming thieves with an occasional condi dodger thief. Holos I don't see much of. Maybe warriors here and there but not really.

you forgot +1 shot Thief Profession

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98908/thief-still-hitting-for-5k#latest

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"SamouraiPizzaCat.4821" said:

> > Power builds still work. You need to make adjustments. I've adjusted all my toons. They are still playable. You need to theory craft.

>

> This man knows his stuff.

> Power was a lot stronger than condi before the patch.

> On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most effective, power was 10 and condi was around 6-8 depending on class before the patch.

>

> After the balance, condi is still around 6-8 and power has also been brought down to the same 6-8 level.

>

> Power vs Condi effectiveness is now balanced.

>

>**As the Samourai cat said, power still works**. But you need to theorycraft. Bring more condi clears and you can still do well.

>

> I fought Cake Walk Vaans just yesterday. I won the first round against his spellbreaker using a condi core necro. He tweaked his build to include more anti-condi and came back to thrash me twice.

>

> Please stop complaining that condi is stronger because it ain’t true. We all have access to many condi management tools. It is just a matter of whether you want to include them in your build.

>

> Those who adapt survive.

**+1**

'They nerfed me and I became more POWERFUL'

(current build included)

> @"Klypto.1703" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Klypto.1703" said:

> > > I mean the term condi spam itself should have been enough of a deterrent to bringing it back again but no they weren't happy with the power being scaled way too high so lets bring back something they hate even more. Except this time lets completely nuke thief and warrior out of being playable that will really make them happy.

> >

> > everything is coming back...the patch was just a reset....'a slap on the wrist'

>

> Yeah everything that is condi lol power builds are obsolete again.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> even with detection, good thieves can dodge you for long enough to get stealth mode back again, and still kill very quick, no matter the dps nerf (**plus they can go condi even more comfy now, since the cleanses got nerfed.**) still, not their 1v1 capabilities are the problem.

>

> thief roamer packs are pretty annoying but numbers often win. i don't agree with saying "thieves ruin wvw" tho, but they should not exactly be getting too much attention when balancing. **they got buffed kinda again as beeing the most efficient killers again, since most dps got reduced way stronger than theirs.**

>

> keep hiding thieves ARE problems. completely nuts that this is even possible.

**+1**

'Guess who's back.....again?'

'Gw2 WvW Condi Deadeye is back !'

(current--build....stay tune.....)

> @"Turkish Special Forces.7193" said:

> GJ ARENA NET ! you literally ruin the game no more fun in wvw servers are laggy everyone playing condi no talent begging for some1 to die their condi the game is just over for me I just bought pof 1 month ago if I knew what was gonna happen I would never buy the game...

**+1**

> @"Klypto.1703" said:

> I mean the term condi spam itself should have been enough of a deterrent to bringing it back again but no they weren't happy with the power being scaled way too high so lets bring back something they hate even more. Except this time lets completely nuke thief and warrior out of being playable that will really make them happy.

everything is coming back...the patch was just a reset....'a slap on the wrist'

What a surprise!!!

Not!!

not too long ago; i walked into wvw and pvp and asked myself, what did this patch do? the damages and the gimmicks are everywhere. I literally laughed out loud and we shared the joke amongst ourselves.

'balance' in Guild Wars 2 remains a complete joke once again; Toxicity never left, its symptoms are resurfacing all over again at a full rate because Anet continues to refuse to address its root cause problem

Power damages are returning all over again, condition has return, all this patch did was shoving Toxicity under the rug and guess what, for 8 years....Toxicity can no longer be contain

Bad Design Mesmer Profession and Thief Profession continue to +1 shot, Toxic Stealth is having a party, Toxic mechanics are just laughing away at once again at 'balance' who pretend to take itself seriously.

Guild Wars 2 'balance' is a circus fiesta and will always be because patches after patches, the jokes was already there.

-the next patch after next patch will not result in anything...just a continual laughing meme

-one thing for sure; absolutley no lessons were learned to the patch-

---it's just not worth to take 'balance' serious anymore---

--the game started as a joke and will end as a joke--