Burnfall.9573

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > All eyes are on Thief Profession and Stealth in the upcoming patch. To once again be the deciding factor of Guild Wars 2 fate.

> > All eyes are on Anet to either deal with Toxicity with a blow or to continue minimizing it?

> >

> > Toxicity is a serious threat to healthy competition. Making excuses for it or to even try to minimize it by throwing it under the carpet will only result in Chaos.

> >

> > What we are witnessing here is the birth of Chaos and it will not end here until Thief Profession is completely redesigned from the ground-up with a complete removal of Stealth mechanic in the game

> >

> > or simply 'kill-switch' Thief Profession

> >

> > -no alternatives or short-cut to this-

> >

> > (within the last 3 previous months; large guild members totalling 800+ walked away from the game including new players who have huge influence to the population. Also not forgetting a large portion of streamers quiting guild wars 2 alongside with many of their followers due to Toxicity running freely in the game)

>

> I play all classes, no thiefs aren't impacting my gameplay even in WvW or sPvP. Replayable and new content are. Where are the new Elites. Where are the new WvW maps, where are the new sPvP maps and game modes. Where are alliances, guild goals and missions. Where are the rewards that would draw interest. Where are the new things to achieve and work towards. Where are the new dungeons and fractals. Where are the new meta events that are fun and rewarding and have something to work towards that would challenge do I ranked sPvP or this event that would get me new gear for my WvW build-out. No thiefs aren't the end all issue even in teh slightest, at least not to me.

i do know there are many other main factors that affected the decline as a whole and Thief Profession played a major role in it. There are more Truth to this matter and this isn't mainly about Thief Profession. I'm sorry if i come across as singling out Thief Profession this way as being the only main factor

You raise important factors as well and i agree with you

All eyes are on Thief Profession and Stealth in the upcoming patch. To once again be the deciding factor of Guild Wars 2 fate.

All eyes are on Anet to either deal with Toxicity with a blow or to continue minimizing it?

Toxicity is a serious threat to healthy competition. Making excuses for it or to even try to minimize it by throwing it under the carpet will only result in Chaos.

What we are witnessing here is the birth of Chaos and it will not end here until Thief Profession is completely redesigned from the ground-up with a complete removal of Stealth mechanic in the game

or simply 'kill-switch' Thief Profession

-no alternatives or short-cut to this-

(within the last 3 previous months; large guild members totalling 800+ walked away from the game including new players who have huge influence to the population. Also not forgetting a large portion of streamers quiting guild wars 2 alongside with many of their followers due to Toxicity running freely in the game)

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Guys, it's just a way to win trade without involving other people into the win trading, so there is no risk in gossip.

>

> Multi Accounts, Multi Windows = Set your bot to try hard if on your team. Set your bot to throw if lands on other team. DC your bot if on your team and it looks like you're going to lose rating. EZPZ

**+1**

sad Truth

https://i.imgur.com/xwADOsH.gifv

The question we should all be asking is; why was Thief designed to be a designated Toxic Profession?

In their defense, didn't you find something wrong with their roles... to spread Toxicity everywhere they go, was already decided long before they could even comprehend what is going on?

That by putting Thief Profession in a pedestal would not mark them as the most hated profession?

That by giving illusions that they get equal fair nerfs that it would remain so without ever displaying Partial-Treatment= Favoritism?

That by designing them to specifically target a Scapegoat Profession? Yes, there is a designated Scapegoat Profession and that is Necromancer

There is a agenda behind all of this and it is continually being challenged.

I feel your pain Thief Profession; Toxicity was forced on you long before you were created and for causing you to take all the blame for it

yeah!! i am truly sorry.....that you were set-up by design to be hated :(

> @"lighter.2708" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"lighter.2708" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"lighter.2708" said:

> > > > > In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...

> > > > > Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds

> > > > > Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds

> > > > > Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

> > > > >

> > > > > also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,

> > > > > people don't look at overall picture at all...

> > > > > should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...

> > > > > necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

> > > > >

> > > > > like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

> > > >

> > > > I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

> > > >

> > > > In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

> > > >

> > > > The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the _vampiric_ trait without forgeting _vampiric ritual_ and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

> > > >

> > > > The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (_well, signet, spectral_ and _minions_).

> > > > - _Well_ because _vampiric ritual_ isn't touched.

> > > > - _Signet_ because _signet of vampirism_, _signet of undeath_, _signet of suffering_ and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.

> > > > - _Spectral_ because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.

> > > > - _Minions_ because _blood fiend_'s heal on hit and _vampiric_'s heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

> > > >

> > > > And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like _parasitic contagion_ or _unholy sanctuary_.

> > > >

> > > > To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

> > >

> > > **First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know**

> > >

> >

> > By reading the patch notes that were released.

> >

> >

>

> ..oh boy..

-correction>was-

took care of it :)

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > **+1**

> >

> > The game balance is ridiculously Trash; Aoe spamming everywhere, +1 shotting everywhere, reflects everywhere, pullings everywhere, unkillable everywhere, stealth everywhere, evading everywhere, Bad Design mechanics spamming everywhere, Toxic +1 shotting in downstate, Toxic design Thief Profession having a circus fiesta everywhere, anytime.......endless Toxic Damage Manifesto everywhere, the lists is endless...

> >

> > Seriously, how much harders does Toxicity gets? Absolutely None!

> >

> > -leave too hard for healthy competitive games who won't put up with Toxicity being a good thing for their game-

> >

> > Yes in this game, Toxicity is good and the patch wont fix it without the game being completely reworked

> > -1 big patch is impossible to fix 9 years of piles of intentional damages made to the game-

> >

> > As usual, i left with 6 players in disgust before replying here

> >

> > (by the way, i don't prevent any new players from 'checking the game out' for themselves, but if they are always the ones to tell me to leave....they have my full support)

> >

> > --have a good day--

> >

>

> Why still play if u leave in disgust everytime u play, it's never changing lol. So many better games out there so play em.

**+1**

It's the new players; i can't stop them for being nosy lol. Seriously, I am enjoying many healthy competitive games out there with former guild wars 2 players and at the same time, helping those who want to try guild wars 2 out....not long before they start running out of the door much quicker than i ever did lol I wish i knew better than sooner l

so yeah!

It's nice here and relaxing. The best feeling on the other side of the fence is feeling valued and that concerns matters and most importantly, that Toxicity is actually bad

Psycoprophet, as always...is a pleasure of speaking with you :)

-one thing we have in common-we both want change

for different results, of course lol

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who thought "huh, that leeching venoms is OP or over performing" or "Spider Venom is OP af, anet should nerf it".

> > > >

> > > > There are more important "balance" changes that need to be looked at first for thief than some somewhat underutilized utilities.

> > >

> > > Shadow Arts Double DP thief literally just won the January EU and NA MATs, dethroning all comps that carried a FB at all after literally three years of support FB defining PvP. The month before it was Double Daredevil that also dethroned team comps that carried a FB. On NA right now 6 of the top 10 are running Shadow Arts DP thief as their main.

> > >

> > > What do you think suddenly changed?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > All this is kinda irrelevant by months end no?

>

> Not really because literally nothing on the current thief/daredevil kit is being touched to the degree.. say meta rev is.

>

> Like right now thief gets a bit of a cooldown increase on Withdraw, a bit of a healing nerf on Escapists Fortitude, the 30% damage nerf everything else is getting, and that's it while other meta builds are eating stuff like;

>

> > * **Empty Vessel (Stunbreak on Legend Swap): This trait has been retired and been replaced by Contained Temper.**

> > * **Contained Temper (NEW): Gain fury when you disable a foe.**

> > * Deathstrike: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced second strike power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.7. **Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 18 seconds**

> > * Unrelenting Assault: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.57 to 0.38. Reduced might duration per strike from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. **Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds**

> > * Shackling Wave: **Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.1**. Increased vulnerability stacks from 8 to 12

> > * Riposting Shadows: **Increased energy cost from 30 to 40. Reduced endurance gain from 25 to 15**

> > * Warding Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.1. **Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds**

> > * Surge of the Mists: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.18 to 0.001

> > * Facet of Strength: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds

>

> Thief is literally the most untouched class by the upcoming megabalance patch to the point where they've barely been touched at all and it's already so meta 6 of the top 10 are specifically maining Shadow Arts DP thief.

**+10**

As Always, Excellent Work!! Mortrialus


> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> GW1 is a jewel that should never change, better yet, the only thing they should do is upgrade the textures but keep everything else untouched.

> the fashion choice is what ppl want in GW2, not the other way around...

**+1**

Exactly this, and Gwen's Profession-Mesmer ideology was created and used as a marketing strategic tool in accomplishing that mission

**+1**

The game balance is ridiculously Trash; Aoe spamming everywhere, +1 shotting everywhere, reflects everywhere, pullings everywhere, unkillable everywhere, stealth everywhere, evading everywhere, Bad Design mechanics spamming everywhere, Toxic +1 shotting in downstate, Toxic design Thief Profession having a circus fiesta everywhere, anytime.......endless Toxic Damage Manifesto everywhere, the lists is endless...

Seriously, how much harders does Toxicity gets? Absolutely None!

-leave too hard for healthy competitive games who won't put up with Toxicity being a good thing for their game-

Yes in this game, Toxicity is good and the patch wont fix it without the game being completely reworked

-1 big patch is impossible to fix 9 years of piles of intentional damages made to the game-

As usual, i left with 6 players in disgust before replying here

(by the way, i don't prevent any new players from 'checking the game out' for themselves, but if they are always the ones to tell me to leave....they have my full support)

--have a good day--

> @"PLS.4095" said:

> Perma stealth is actually the problem and it's actually nerf in the new patch.

> Others are just qq and L2P issu.

yet Thief Professional Players says otherwise. In fact, there are other ways to Perma Stealth that aren't being addressed in the new patch. In other word, we are being given half-truth to our faces...


-nothing more to add

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> I think after all these yrs it's pretty clear what anets vision and stance on stealth is at least regarding thief so no topic pls, time to move on. Getting pretty old.

'A vision is successful when it “speaks” to a wide audience, tells an engaging story that people want to be a part of, challenges people, and creates a sense of urgency. Success occurs when the vision becomes embedded in the daily decisions and actions taken of those you want to lead. A vision is not merely an extended strategic plan or “mission.” When we see a vision that is working, guiding an organization to sustained growth, we know that behind it are leaders who are comfortable leading with their hearts as well as their heads'

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Slowpokeking.8720" said:

> > > Keep most of the game mechanics with minor improvement.

> > >

> > > Update the character model, emotion and visual and fashion choice greatly. Also if possible let us be able to jump.

> > >

> > > I still love the game so much because it's fun in a unique way.

> > >

> >

> > i would definitely like a Guild Wars remake. Obviously, after merging Guild Wars 2 servers and allowing Toxicity run its course, why not?

> >

> > - 1 Toxic game to its grave

> > - 1 Healthy Competitive game is given new breath of life

>

> Fun fact: accusing everyone else of toxic behavior is toxic behavior.


> @"Slowpokeking.8720" said:

> Keep most of the game mechanics with minor improvement.

>

> Update the character model, emotion and visual and fashion choice greatly. Also if possible let us be able to jump.

>

> I still love the game so much because it's fun in a unique way.

>

i would definitely like a Guild Wars remake. Obviously, after merging Guild Wars 2 servers and allowing Toxicity run its course, why not?

- 1 Toxic game to its grave

- 1 Healthy Competitive game is given new breath of life

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> ^ Title

>

> * Negative 33% damage game wide

> * Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

> * Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

> * Healing game wide -33%

> * **Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched**

>

> If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

>

> If this is not addressed before the patch drops, we'll see QQ in the forums on this topic, like an avalanche coming down a mountain.

In other word; Necromancer Profession deserves to be incapable, defenseless, alone


we were never good enough, never was...being everyone's punching bag....end up hurting all over again

> @"Invictorum.7643" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"cobbah.3102" said:

> > > Just delete thief , problem solved.

> >

> > delete Stealth across the board; simple as that

>

> So what defensive buffs will you give to thief to make up for losing stealth, as well as nullifying almost an entire traitline for the class?

it wouldn't only be Thief Profession, but including all Professions.

-intentionally giving stealth 8 years of power to cause chaos...nothing to compensate for its loss

-this should be enough to compensate for it

(in fact, just this morning 8 new players quit because they've had enough of Thief Profession. These 8 players are part of large guilds in a healthy competitive game. It didn't take long for them to share their Toxic experience in twitch. Guild Wars 2 is Anti-Healthy, Anti-Competitive and it is very well deserve when especially new players suddenly leaves it. Nothing will change in the next upcoming Patch if Stealth is not dealt with or to be completely removed. Anet is fully accountable for allowing this Toxic Mechanic pushing even new player away from playing the game) Even guild wars 2 once dedicated streamers are no longer dedicated after opening their eyes of seeing how truely the game does promote and encourages Toxicity and how it continue finding any excuses to not completely address it at its core root. Most importantly, how Anet never cared about our concerns especially when it comes to us begging them when Toxicity is being exploited

As long Anet continues defending Toxic Thief Profession and Toxic Stealth mechanics, nothing will ever change. The next patch is proof of it and that is why it is a big joke and once again, another slap on our faces for believing in it

-take a look at this-

> @"cobbah.3102" said:

> Just delete thief , problem solved.

delete Stealth across the board; simple as that

Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.

And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.

This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

since this thread is about living world; i would like to drop this here and to be taken seriously. (I'm not a fan of Wooden Potatoes but am considering it now) Lately, i've noticed Wooden Potatoes taking part in streaming with other players who shares different mind set and views about guild wars 2 unhealthiness and non competitiveness.

I've noticed him allowing himself to understand their views more and allowing himself to be more acceptive and receptive to the Truth. Fast forward, i'll let the Truth speak for itself.

by the way, Thank You! Wooden Pototatoes for your patience, hard work, empathy, commitment and most importantly for taking your time to experience other players experiences

'Anet need to pay very much attention'


> @"Anput.4620" said:

> So you are increasing all mobility cooldown while Thief still has current shortbow 5? Guess no one can catch a Thief again ever, i don't like the longer cooldown approach, always liked shorter cds.

>

> I guess every ganking group on warclaws can also chase any non-Thief down now while they are in combat.

**+1**

that what make the 'balance' patch a joke because it still promotes Toxicity

In other word, this patch is repackaging Toxicity into something good by intentionally leaving Toxic elements like Stealth, Stealth Stacking, +1 shot, evade, down state, visual effects, condition, Teleport including shortbow mobility untouched

All It Is; is....Rebranding Toxicity nicely

> @"SnowHawk.3615" said:

> What a joke.

here's another joke that will continue after the patch

(as always, not attacking Thief Profession players but attacking Thief Profession Toxic design)

-no amount of 'nerfing' will fix this profession until it is completely redesigned -

**In Fact, the next upcoming patch will force them to use their conditions more**

> @"Liewec.2896" said:

> i play zerker, i've always played zerker in every MMO i've played.

> so nope i won't "cool my jets" when the MMO that i've played for 7 years

> decides to nerf not just my favourite character, not just my second favourite,

> but ALL of my characters...

>

> condi bunker meta was the worst period of PVP in GW2,

> and THAT is what the devs are pushing us back too.

**+1**

take a look at this

A TRUE DISPLAY OF SALTS GLORIOUS COORDINATION!

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> People have been asking for something like this for years now. We shall see if they were right and how everything turns out once this nuke has hit and we have had some time to get used to the new balance. I certainly salute this bold new approach to balancing their game. It is a refreshing change after years of overbuffing stuff and listening to the whining.

**The upcoming patch is nothing but Half-Truth from Truth**

People including new players have been asking to reduce Toxicity for years which includes the complete removal/reworking of all Toxic Elements including Power Creep, Condition Creep, Bunker Creep. reworking/removal Thief Profession, Reworking Mesmer Profession to its origin in Guild Wars, reworking Toxic skills, Reworking Toxic Mechanics, Removing/Reworking Stealth, Reworking/Removing Teleport, Eliminating +1 shot mechanic/Instant Kills, Reducing Op sigils/runes, reworking/removing down state, removing pullings, reworking sigils/runes, reworking Elite specialization, Reworking weapon stats, Reducing Aoe effects and its range, Eliminating Stealth and Teleport Exploits, Reducing/Eliminating varieties of skills per professions, improving Necromancer Profession design including boosting its mobility instead of being a punching bag, Giving Elementalist Profession identity, giving Ranger Profession access to more pets, Skill stackings, reducing Toxicity at its roots as a whole etc...

What this upcoming patch does is cherry picking some Toxic Elements and making claims that 'competition matters'.....that we have finally listened to years of your feedbacks and concerns

That is called Half-Truth/False Truth

**Be Not Deceived!!**

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> With respect to PVP...

>

> As a whole I don’t like any of these changes and the direction the game is going. It’s like backwards development to your game.

>

> I think slowing down the game play and catering to the crowd that was never really that good at the game is the wrong way to go - completely.

>

> I think after all this development time you will see the same people achieving a**nd the same people crying** ... except it will be crying about something different, and the game will be less fun for a guy like myself who has been keeping up with the pace of the game through constant development over the years.

>

> I feel like this game is/will lose some of its edge in this update. - The dodge button and the explosiveness and responsiveness of the combat system is what high rank PVP players like in your game. Also the amount of CHOICES.

>

> You guys are removing even more amulets I see on top of this?

>

> Like at one point you have to say enough is enough and and stop changing the game to fit the desires of a certain vocal group of the population.

>

> At least if you are going to waste development time, cater it to the people that actually excel at your game. Not the ones that barely understand it.

>

> Cutting down damage, healing, CC, stun breaks - removing even MORE amulets??? INCREASING COOL DOWNS???? ... you are just making the game more slow paced and passive and taking away complexity. It’s straight up removing depth from the game and closing the gap between those that understand and those that don’t.

>

> Yeah you will appeal to the new guys or the guys that never get a clue but you are hard capping the possibilities.

>

> Here’s to hoping for a new XPAC that will RETURN things to their CURRENT power levels. SMDH

because,


'Starting Strong, Finishing Weak'

**Intentional Toxic remains**

Exploit Stealth Design, Exploit Teleport Design, +One Shots. Toxic Pullings, Toxic Thief Profession Design, Toxic Mesmer Profession Design, Toxic Mechanic Designs, Toxic Skill Designs, Food Buffs, Bad Design Sigils/Runes Buffs., Toxic Mobility, Toxic Condition Thief Profession.....anything else missing??