sigur.9453
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> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > setup was:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos
> > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
> > > > > >
> > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> > > > > LMAO
> > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players
> > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot
> > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue
> > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom
> > > >
> > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist!
> > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss.
> > > >
> > >
> > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1
> > > the result was
> > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS
> > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2
> > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3
> > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2
> > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8
> > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25
> > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29
> > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7
> > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9
> > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2
> > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3
> > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8
> > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9
> > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4
> > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5
> > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2
> > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18
> > >
> > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid
> > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> >
> > good job,well done.
> > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands.
> > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values.
>
> i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build
> if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger
no, full stop!
first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners.
second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes.
did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter.
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> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > setup was:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2 chronos
> > > > > > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > > > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > > > > > 1 support scourge
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
> > > > >
> > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
> > > >
> > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> > > LMAO
> > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players
> > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot
> > > and by your definition its called a social issue
> > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom
> >
> > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist!
> > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss.
> >
>
> from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1
> the result was
> encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS
> Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2
> Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3
> Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2
> Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8
> Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25
> Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29
> Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7
> Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9
> Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2
> Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3
> Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8
> Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9
> Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4
> Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5
> Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2
> Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18
>
> conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid
> and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
good job,well done.
now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands.
and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > > > > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> > > > > > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> > > > > > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and there goes your argument.
> > > > > > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe read the "has been" part (even Revenant has had quite a period that they were the absolute go for class in **every** raid)!
> > > > > Also, you're wrong: [Chrono](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/support/), [Druid](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/healing/), (https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/)(https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/berserker/banner/) ??? (seeing you put dps between brackets!)
> > > > > And, maybe I should make myself clear here that I consider the "PvE endgame" as a more or less overall term where some classes really rule in general, maybe not EVERY single boss, but Raids in general, T4 fractals in general, or back in the days, dungeons in general! And like I stated, Necro has **NEVER** had that title before (and every other class has)!
> > > > > EDIT: before you start: and what about Epi-bounce?: that was considered an exploit by ANet and they nerfed it (making it a niche, at best).
> > > >
> > > > t4 fractals, 4 necros 1 druid. it was even for a long period of time as far as i remember. arguably not meta, but the go to pug composition.
> > > > yeah, correctly, i was speaking about dps classes, no reason to argue against or about the holy support trinity.
> > > >
> > > > edit:i cant remember rev been the go to class at any point in time. situational it had its up and downs (like necro)
> > >
> > > this is a discussion about PvE end game content that mean fractal CMs , raid and raid CMs
> > >
> >
> > ok then dhuum cm leaderboard:
> > https://www.gw2raidar.com/leaderboards
> > 3(1) scourges in first place. and before you go "but epi nerfed". this is with current (!) patch
> > sabetha leaderboards i see a lot of scourge symbols there.
> > same goes vor vg leaderbords.
> >
> > and lets not talk about the epi bounce era pre nerf.
> >
> >
>
> i have told you many time that anet consider epi bouncing as an exploit and not how epi is designed to function they did and will take action against epi bouncing until its dead .
a nice comment out of context, which dispoofs nothing i have postet.
oh, and since you mentioned it, could you please link me the dev statment that states "epi bouncing is an exploit". apearantly i missed that.
last time i checked, epi was still in the game. but im eager to be proven wrong.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> > > > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> > > > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
> > > >
> > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> > > >
> > > > and there goes your argument.
> > > > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
> > >
> > > Im going to disagree with you there, since a class should not be excluded from the desire to do that particular raid.
> > >
> > > Having different builds for different raid bosses is one thing, like Eles having large targets and small target.
> > >
> > > The major issue is necros are optimal for 1 or 2 and non meta for the majority of them.
> > >
> > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> > >
> > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/
> > >
> > >
> > > How is that good design that reaper is only really good for 1 or 2 raids, and the majority of them can skip necro?
> > >
> > > How is it good a build like scourge which is very non meta in pve raids, has its only thing that it has maybe going for it(Support) gutted?
> > >
> > > A class should never be bad at everything, because that is just terrible design. A class who is built up as support can fail at dps, but if it also fails to be a useful support, then that is very bad design.Oversights such as I discussed with dragonfury, and he can confirm this, that the nerf to grit because of a rune oversight, is bad design and questionable. Anet should not have released the new runes without bug testing them.
> > >
> > all dps builds combined,
> > ele is meta on 2 bosses
> > chrono excluded the obvious support part on 4
> > engee on 6
> > ranger excluded the obvious support on 0
> > thief rules supreme.
> > guardian on 7
> > herold on 3
> > warrior excluded the obvious support on 0
> > necro on 2
> >
> > i see outliers here, but its not necro.
> >
> > necro isn´t bad at everything, NO class is!
> > don´t know why you think sup scourge is bad.
> >
>
> The problem is, look at the scourge support, it says on snowcrows unsubstantial and inefficient, and there you have a reason for elitists to deny you and flat out be elitist against a spec.
>
> I heard that the ones that were good in support are not fully correct, because of the change to scourge support.Wether this is true or not, its still super niche and very much a class build that has few places to shine or be desired.
>
> The word of the day is classism, and its not even 100% since its not a social class, but rather comparable to racism, so lets call it class racism.
>
> If ANET does stuff that encourages class elitism and class racism, then that is what is going to happen. They created some of the problems, so of course they have the responsibility of fixing it. It isn't our fault that the class has limitations that limit our dps to the point where we are less likely to be taken over one of the overlords of dps being:Thief Mesmers holomancers etc, because they have superior dps and these classes also have superior support, so where does that leave scourge in support? helping bad players who die constantly, but even in raids, that wont work since its perma death in escort if you die.
>
>
>
>
thats the thing with elitist, they deny EVERY CLASS that is not meta on a certain boss the participation. it has nothing to do with necro. but luckily there is a whole lot more groups that only destinct between power/condi + please dont suck.
sup scourge is probaply the most popular 2nd healer (pugs need 2 healers most of the times) at the moment, on literally every boss. (at least i cant think of a boss atm where sup scourge would suck by design, please correct me if im wrong)
dps overloards currently are thief, dh, ren, & if we don´t get to picky mirage (super niche like scourge) thats 4/10 classes. necros are not alone. engee is a great overall pick though.
call it racsim then, i won´t.
i don´t get the "helping bad players that die" argument. helping players not to die is support? sorry if i ask, how many raid expierence you have?
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > setup was:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2 chronos
> > > > > > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > > > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > > > > > 1 support scourge
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
> > > > >
> > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
> > > >
> > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> > > LMAO
> > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players
> > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot
> > > and by your definition its called a social issue
> > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom
> >
> > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist!
> > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss.
> >
>
> yea its in the "middle"
> if took your time and look at the stats for each boss you ll see that power reaper is not at the bottom because he is always above tempest (they have weaver) and warrior (losing DPS because they take banner)
> and scourge except very few bosses he is at middle but other bosses at the bottom
above tempest, above spellbreaker, above herold above soulbeast,above other classes.................varifies from boss to boss---> the middle. some professions even have higher benchmarks on SC site. how is that possible?
edit: don´t think pwarrior would to a whole lot more dps without banners.
so for scourge you mean a good mix?
and suprisingly mostly ahead of firebrand which also is better on the benchmark?! it can even outdps a condi engee on mathias that is 4-5k ahead the benchmarks?!
its almost as that there is no universal truth.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> > > > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> > > > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
> > > >
> > > > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> > > >
> > > > and there goes your argument.
> > > > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
> > >
> > > Maybe read the "has been" part (even Revenant has had quite a period that they were the absolute go for class in **every** raid)!
> > > Also, you're wrong: [Chrono](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/support/), [Druid](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/healing/), (https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/)(https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/berserker/banner/) ??? (seeing you put dps between brackets!)
> > > And, maybe I should make myself clear here that I consider the "PvE endgame" as a more or less overall term where some classes really rule in general, maybe not EVERY single boss, but Raids in general, T4 fractals in general, or back in the days, dungeons in general! And like I stated, Necro has **NEVER** had that title before (and every other class has)!
> > > EDIT: before you start: and what about Epi-bounce?: that was considered an exploit by ANet and they nerfed it (making it a niche, at best).
> >
> > t4 fractals, 4 necros 1 druid. it was even for a long period of time as far as i remember. arguably not meta, but the go to pug composition.
> > yeah, correctly, i was speaking about dps classes, no reason to argue against or about the holy support trinity.
> >
> > edit:i cant remember rev been the go to class at any point in time. situational it had its up and downs (like necro)
>
> this is a discussion about PvE end game content that mean fractal CMs , raid and raid CMs
>
ok then dhuum cm leaderboard:
https://www.gw2raidar.com/leaderboards
3(1) scourges in first place. and before you go "but epi nerfed". this is with current (!) patch
sabetha leaderboards i see a lot of scourge symbols there.
same goes vor vg leaderbords.
and lets not talk about the epi bounce era pre nerf.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > > > >
> > > > > > setup was:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2 chronos
> > > > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > > > 1 support scourge
> > > > > >
> > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > > > >
> > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> > > >
> > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
> > >
> > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
> >
> > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> LMAO
> what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players
> and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot
> and by your definition its called a social issue
> and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom
it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist!
look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
> >
> > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> >
> > and there goes your argument.
> > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
>
> Im going to disagree with you there, since a class should not be excluded from the desire to do that particular raid.
>
> Having different builds for different raid bosses is one thing, like Eles having large targets and small target.
>
> The major issue is necros are optimal for 1 or 2 and non meta for the majority of them.
>
> https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
>
> https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/
>
>
> How is that good design that reaper is only really good for 1 or 2 raids, and the majority of them can skip necro?
>
> How is it good a build like scourge which is very non meta in pve raids, has its only thing that it has maybe going for it(Support) gutted?
>
> A class should never be bad at everything, because that is just terrible design. A class who is built up as support can fail at dps, but if it also fails to be a useful support, then that is very bad design.Oversights such as I discussed with dragonfury, and he can confirm this, that the nerf to grit because of a rune oversight, is bad design and questionable. Anet should not have released the new runes without bug testing them.
>
all dps builds combined,
ele is meta on 2 bosses
chrono excluded the obvious support part on 4
engee on 6
ranger excluded the obvious support on 0
thief rules supreme.
guardian on 7
herold on 3
warrior excluded the obvious support on 0
necro on 2
i see outliers here, but its not necro.
necro isn´t bad at everything, NO class is!
don´t know why you think sup scourge is bad.
-
> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> > > Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> > > It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> > > And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
> >
> > https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
> >
> > and there goes your argument.
> > no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
>
> Maybe read the "has been" part (even Revenant has had quite a period that they were the absolute go for class in **every** raid)!
> Also, you're wrong: [Chrono](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/support/), [Druid](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/healing/), (https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/)(https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/berserker/banner/) ??? (seeing you put dps between brackets!)
> And, maybe I should make myself clear here that I consider the "PvE endgame" as a more or less overall term where some classes really rule in general, maybe not EVERY single boss, but Raids in general, T4 fractals in general, or back in the days, dungeons in general! And like I stated, Necro has **NEVER** had that title before (and every other class has)!
> EDIT: before you start: and what about Epi-bounce?: that was considered an exploit by ANet and they nerfed it (making it a niche, at best).
t4 fractals, 4 necros 1 druid. it was even for a long period of time as far as i remember. arguably not meta, but the go to pug composition.
yeah, correctly, i was speaking about dps classes, no reason to argue against or about the holy support trinity.
edit:i cant remember rev been the go to class at any point in time. situational it had its up and downs (like necro)
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > >
> > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > >
> > > > setup was:
> > > >
> > > > 2 chronos
> > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > 1 support scourge
> > > >
> > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > >
> > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > >
> > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> >
> > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
>
> its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue. if you would look at raidars global stats, you would see that necro is pretty much in the middle of the pack.
conclusion 1: necros balancing is fine, sure, could get some buffs, but so do other classes.
conclusion 2: if necro is in the middle of the pack, shouldn´t there be other classes to that are excluded from so called elitist meta groups? hint: there are!
and no, i like necro, im havíng quite a lot of fun playing power reaper (scourge not so, its boring)
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> >
> > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> >
> > setup was:
> >
> > 2 chronos
> > 4 pReaper
> > 2 cScouges
> > 1 cReaper(!)
> > 1 support scourge
> >
> > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > c) not min max gear + buffood
> >
> > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> >
> > necro does fine in raids.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
-
> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:
> Funny how everyone always gives anecdotal proof of how _viable_ Necromancers are. But I believe there is NO issue at all on how viable the Necro as a class is in the PvE endgame. That should also not be the discussion here!
> It is the fact that they've NEVER been legitimately **optimal** in the whole PvE endgame (save for those periods where they were either bugged or exploitable), and pretty much every other class has been, or is!
> And really, this is something only ANet can do something about!
https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/
and there goes your argument.
no (dps) class is optimal on every boss/situation. nore should any class be, that would be the definition of bad balancing.
-
Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
setup was:
2 chronos
4 pReaper
2 cScouges
1 cReaper(!)
1 support scourge
don´t mind the low dps numbers
a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
c) not min max gear + buffood
it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
necro does fine in raids.
-
> @"Farkon.2170" said:
> > @"Dace.8173" said:
> > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > Even when i personally never do PvE (so i cannot speak from my personal experience), i see that there is obviously a Problem with necro in gw2. i also dont understand why People prefer to wait 5 more minutes for Special classes than needing 2 more min with necro in Team. of Course it is stupid, but finally this Situation is real and anet created that by mishandling the necromancer FOR YEARS. Maybe necro could easily do that stuff but anet made community toxic AGAINST necros and **should take responsibility** for this and make the game fun for necro mains again because games should be fun and not frustrating.
> > >
> > > maybe at the very beginning of the game the current performance of necros would be enough, but after all the years of necro underperformance in pve we have that situation (and i really feel with OP, because his screenshoots are real and frustrating). atm, after years of mishandling the Situation there is just 1 solution left, bringing necro exactly in line with others.
> >
> > Arena Net did not make people toxic against Necromancers. That's just silly and a statement you can't support. The situation is not as simplistic as you paint it and ignores far too many important factors.
> >
> >
>
> Indirectly they did. Indirectly they can prevent people from being toxic to Necromancers by giving them a feasible role in which they can contribute to, whether it's DPS, Support, or another viable role.
> With a role then players will have a need for them instead of the opposite.
> Also, there's a lot of assumptions being flung around and I found it amusing when you got mad at my quotes.
> Regardless, the fact of the matter is Necros are underperforming and unfriendly to newer players due to never being updated and their innate limitations as well, we can argue the semantics until we're throwing mud around like monkeys, but it doesn't change that fact.
But there are already viable dps an support options. They are even meta on some bosses. I think we don't need to talk about wvw. And they are quite the opposite of unfriendly to new players which imo is the main reason of the "necro hate". Regarding viability necros are in line with other professions.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"Dace.8173" said:
> > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > >
> > > > i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players
> > >
> > > thats a blatant lie.
> > > i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Why am I not surprised that a blatant lie was said in this thread. I do declare ....
>
> can someone explain where and when i did this "blatant lie"
> i never claimed that those pictures are mine
> i did say they are from other necro and i did blank the name because i did promise so
> but sense sigur recognize the picture yea it fact it was from him
> and i did reach out to him and take his permission to share these pictures
> again what lie ??
you wrote, quote : "i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players."
while it may be true, that the original poster of these images acceptet to share those pictures (there is an actual interessting 8 month old reddit thread with those images)
you lied by implying that "a lot of others" (or in fact you mentioned "all") sent you their horrible expieriences, to strenghen you statment that NO NECRO is allowed in good groups and to further blow up the problem. its a very manipulitive lie. a for afford though, if you actually have contacted the "owner" of those images.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > >
> > > we both a necro main in the same bout and many others
> >
> > you lied, shame on you.
>
> shame on you for thinking that i am lying and what a nice respond to a undeniable evidence in image form
you lied, very blatently and for "the whole world to see" , to "proof" you statments. its disgusting.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
>
> we both a necro main in the same bout and many others
you lied, shame on you.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> >
> >
> > mhm, must be hacks.
> > one for disguising as another class, and one for increasing the dps
>
> i just saw that so its YouTube after all
> and they know that he is teapot LMAO
> and what a nice evidence to show that reaper can join a training group
> i did say to teapot many times before the release of W6 if you truly support necro how about you take your necro to your world first clear for W6 and he ignore that what can you say about Anet partner
> do you want to see teapot say the truth see this at 1:22:30
> "at the end of the day a necro cant compete with raw dps output of these power classes at vale guardian all its good at is during the split phases "
> and what a nice video necro only been used for epi bouncing which was nerfed and only effective in limited times
> and anet consider epi bounce as an exploit they tried to destroy it last balance patch but ended up just nerfing epi by 50% (bounce by 75%)
>
>
epi WAS already nerfed when that video took place. facts are a bummer.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> i know you ll say these words so i did reach out to other necros and they accepted to share some images so see if it VERY specific scenario or thread does NOT represent the experience of all necro players
thats a blatant lie.
i think @"Sublimatio.6981" postet these pics some while ago. not sure if on reddit or on the forum.
-
mhm, must be hacks.
one for disguising as another class, and one for increasing the dps
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > i realy hope you won´t face any discimination in RL, because this is laugable compared to other issues. its a god kitten game.
> > > > > > also there is an distincion between desciminating for factors that are in ones own choosing (behaviour, music/fashion style, class in an online mmo) and factors one can not choose (ethnic, sex, sexual orientation).
> > > > > > one is socialy acepted, one is not.
> > > > > > i agree by definition you are correct, but it still sounds way to overdramatic for me. if they didn´t let me play in their group, i feel angry (I wouldn't care in fact)
> > > > > > , not discriminated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yeah another reason why dps meters are a good thing i guess. happens.
> > > > >
> > > > > No form of discrimination is socialy accepted nor should it. Maybe it's less important in most of the eyes but you can't justify it by saying it's socialy accepted. Someone not getting a job because he got a tatoo or is dressed like a biker is someone victim from discrimination. This might not seem as important in your eyes than someone discriminated based on it's ethny, sex or sexual orientation, you might say that he can hide the tatoo or change to more formal closes but it doesn't mean that it harm less the victim or that it's "ok".
> > > > >
> > > > > The starting point of this thread is discrimination and like I said, victims here can only give example of what they "suffer" and try to ask for balance in order to shut down these behaviors.
> > > >
> > > > Ever thought/Said one of the following things or similar to them:
> > > >
> > > > i don´t think i want to have to do with that person because this person,
> > > > is listening no nickelback.
> > > > is wearing crocs.
> > > > just wolf.whistled another person.
> > > > made a faschist gesture.
> > > > littered the ground.
> > > > looks better then you.
> > > > does play another class in an mmo.
> > > > writes random lists on the internet to make a point
> > > > ........
> > > >
> > > > congratulation, you are an evil person that discrimates. or wait, nobody cared?is this social aceptance?
> > > > you get the point.
> > > >
> > > > while i agree with you and would say not getting a job because of a tatoo is in fact discimination, everyone not getting "the job" is also disciminated in some way, since the decission why someone not gets/gets the job is also mostly based on "feelings", since HR department haven´t seen any of them work "in real time". but we are getting a bit off topic i guess.
> > > >
> > > > balance has nothing to to with it, since necro is in the best place it ever was with various viable/meta/pug meta builds. yet OP sticks with her/his statment that no good groups are taking necros, which was disproved with evidence , because s/he thinks it does too little dps. which was also disproved with evidence, and it has no support spot either, which was also disproven. OP is blinded by evidence it seams.
> > > > not beeing able to join every group is not necro specific, its in commanders right to exclude classes. i have been pugging with worse classes (power herold, power mesmer,.....) btw. i don´t know where you find those necro hate groups, i havent seen noone for ages, and i also never seen a necro joining a group and not getting kicked getting super exited about it.
> > > > long post, who cares.
> > >
> > > it is necro specific not being able to join every group
> > > and you have very strong opinion for someone who dont play the profession
> > > and i dont "thinks" it does too little dps i know that because unlike you i play the profession
> > > what all you said was disproved with evidence
> > > and you show no evidence other than epi bouncing and i ll say that is an evidence that necro only good for epi
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
> > I don't even know how to respond to such bs. Or are you new to raids? Sry then, was assuming you are a veteran. Nvm then, get used to the content, what I said will start to make sense.
>
> may be i ll believe you when i have access to your discussions page
> but i cant so that make be doubt you are a player like me
No offense, but I have no idea what your last 2 posts mean.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > i realy hope you won´t face any discimination in RL, because this is laugable compared to other issues. its a god kitten game.
> > > > also there is an distincion between desciminating for factors that are in ones own choosing (behaviour, music/fashion style, class in an online mmo) and factors one can not choose (ethnic, sex, sexual orientation).
> > > > one is socialy acepted, one is not.
> > > > i agree by definition you are correct, but it still sounds way to overdramatic for me. if they didn´t let me play in their group, i feel angry (I wouldn't care in fact)
> > > > , not discriminated.
> > > >
> > > > yeah another reason why dps meters are a good thing i guess. happens.
> > >
> > > No form of discrimination is socialy accepted nor should it. Maybe it's less important in most of the eyes but you can't justify it by saying it's socialy accepted. Someone not getting a job because he got a tatoo or is dressed like a biker is someone victim from discrimination. This might not seem as important in your eyes than someone discriminated based on it's ethny, sex or sexual orientation, you might say that he can hide the tatoo or change to more formal closes but it doesn't mean that it harm less the victim or that it's "ok".
> > >
> > > The starting point of this thread is discrimination and like I said, victims here can only give example of what they "suffer" and try to ask for balance in order to shut down these behaviors.
> >
> > Ever thought/Said one of the following things or similar to them:
> >
> > i don´t think i want to have to do with that person because this person,
> > is listening no nickelback.
> > is wearing crocs.
> > just wolf.whistled another person.
> > made a faschist gesture.
> > littered the ground.
> > looks better then you.
> > does play another class in an mmo.
> > writes random lists on the internet to make a point
> > ........
> >
> > congratulation, you are an evil person that discrimates. or wait, nobody cared?is this social aceptance?
> > you get the point.
> >
> > while i agree with you and would say not getting a job because of a tatoo is in fact discimination, everyone not getting "the job" is also disciminated in some way, since the decission why someone not gets/gets the job is also mostly based on "feelings", since HR department haven´t seen any of them work "in real time". but we are getting a bit off topic i guess.
> >
> > balance has nothing to to with it, since necro is in the best place it ever was with various viable/meta/pug meta builds. yet OP sticks with her/his statment that no good groups are taking necros, which was disproved with evidence , because s/he thinks it does too little dps. which was also disproved with evidence, and it has no support spot either, which was also disproven. OP is blinded by evidence it seams.
> > not beeing able to join every group is not necro specific, its in commanders right to exclude classes. i have been pugging with worse classes (power herold, power mesmer,.....) btw. i don´t know where you find those necro hate groups, i havent seen noone for ages, and i also never seen a necro joining a group and not getting kicked getting super exited about it.
> > long post, who cares.
>
> it is necro specific not being able to join every group
> and you have very strong opinion for someone who dont play the profession
> and i dont "thinks" it does too little dps i know that because unlike you i play the profession
> what all you said was disproved with evidence
> and you show no evidence other than epi bouncing and i ll say that is an evidence that necro only good for epi
> 
> 
>
I don't even know how to respond to such bs. Or are you new to raids? Sry then, was assuming you are a veteran. Nvm then, get used to the content, what I said will start to make sense.
-
> @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > i realy hope you won´t face any discimination in RL, because this is laugable compared to other issues. its a god kitten game.
> > also there is an distincion between desciminating for factors that are in ones own choosing (behaviour, music/fashion style, class in an online mmo) and factors one can not choose (ethnic, sex, sexual orientation).
> > one is socialy acepted, one is not.
> > i agree by definition you are correct, but it still sounds way to overdramatic for me. if they didn´t let me play in their group, i feel angry (I wouldn't care in fact)
> > , not discriminated.
> >
> > yeah another reason why dps meters are a good thing i guess. happens.
>
> No form of discrimination is socialy accepted nor should it. Maybe it's less important in most of the eyes but you can't justify it by saying it's socialy accepted. Someone not getting a job because he got a tatoo or is dressed like a biker is someone victim from discrimination. This might not seem as important in your eyes than someone discriminated based on it's ethny, sex or sexual orientation, you might say that he can hide the tatoo or change to more formal closes but it doesn't mean that it harm less the victim or that it's "ok".
>
> The starting point of this thread is discrimination and like I said, victims here can only give example of what they "suffer" and try to ask for balance in order to shut down these behaviors.
Ever thought/Said one of the following things or similar to them:
i don´t think i want to have to do with that person because this person,
is listening no nickelback.
is wearing crocs.
just wolf.whistled another person.
made a faschist gesture.
littered the ground.
looks better then you.
does play another class in an mmo.
writes random lists on the internet to make a point
........
congratulation, you are an evil person that discrimates. or wait, nobody cared?is this social aceptance?
you get the point.
while i agree with you and would say not getting a job because of a tatoo is in fact discimination, everyone not getting "the job" is also disciminated in some way, since the decission why someone not gets/gets the job is also mostly based on "feelings", since HR department haven´t seen any of them work "in real time". but we are getting a bit off topic i guess.
balance has nothing to to with it, since necro is in the best place it ever was with various viable/meta/pug meta builds. yet OP sticks with her/his statment that no good groups are taking necros, which was disproved with evidence , because s/he thinks it does too little dps. which was also disproved with evidence, and it has no support spot either, which was also disproven. OP is blinded by evidence it seams.
not beeing able to join every group is not necro specific, its in commanders right to exclude classes. i have been pugging with worse classes (power herold, power mesmer,.....) btw. i don´t know where you find those necro hate groups, i havent seen noone for ages, and i also never seen a necro joining a group and not getting kicked getting super exited about it.
long post, who cares.
-
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > you should tell that to op, he stated in this thread that he dont want necros in his groups. or something similar.
> > > > but true, i also have prejudices when a necro/dh joins, but it has nothing to do with balance or benchmarks. (but im always willing to give them a chance to proof me wrong)
> > > > discrimination is a far to hard word for not beeing able to join into every group.
> > >
> > > To discriminate: to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality:
> > >
> > > When someone judge how you will perform based on the profession you play and reject you before even giving you a chance, what else is it if it's not discrimination? I won't describe a cat by saying that it's a furry beast, I'll say that it's a cat. Discrimination exist as long as you are rejected specifically based on the profession you play instead of your actual performances in the fight.
> > >
> > > One of my favourite example of discrimination is something that happened to me in fractal in the HoT era. I joined a PuG to clear my daylies as a dps condi chrono (something unthinkable at that time). We were progressing just fine until this revenant started to bother me with his "Condi chrono? Why don't you play a proper build? Where's your support? What are you good for?... Blah Blah Blah". The revenant was "meta" and performed poorly but the group was doing fine. I quited the group and found another group shortly after doing again all 3 fractals before my first group managed to even finish their own daylies.
> > >
> > > The morality is that despite not being meta I was compensating for the poorly played meta revenant.
> > >
> > > Here, a good song against discrimination:
> > >
> >
> > i realy hope you won´t face any discimination in RL, because this is laugable compared to other issues. its a god kitten game.
> > also there is an distincion between desciminating for factors that are in ones own choosing (behaviour, music/fashion style, class in an online mmo) and factors one can not choose (ethnic, sex, sexual orientation).
> > one is socialy acepted, one is not.
> > i agree by definition you are correct, but it still sounds way to overdramatic for me. if they didn´t let me play in their group, i feel angry (I wouldn't care in fact)
> > , not discriminated.
> >
> > yeah another reason why dps meters are a good thing i guess. happens.
>
> so i have full legendary gear for my power reaper or condi scourge but my all exotic holo never get me kicked and i do less DPS on my holo because i am not yet familiar with holo rotation ( is it fair)
> i dont care if i dont joined there group but its a big wast of time to join then kicked without getting a chance
> and getting the usual learn a real DPS profession from toxic player this called cyber discrimination and that feels bad and i hope no profession will ever face that in the future
>
really "a big waste of time"? maybe just save some of it through not arguing about why you got kicked then.
nanana, watch out, calling someone toxic is disciminating.
no worries, worst case anyone can play any other profession anyway.
thank god we have player that allow necromancer in end game content
in Necromancer
Posted
> @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Btw. this happend out of boredom with my static + 2 randoms (we don´t do w3 normaly)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.gw2raidar.com/encounter/TonnesPunchesNervousTrustsDrinking
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > setup was:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2 chronos
> > > > > > > > > > > > 4 pReaper
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2 cScouges
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1 cReaper(!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1 support scourge
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > don´t mind the low dps numbers
> > > > > > > > > > > > a) mayor hickups in orb phase (we tried to insta pull in a circle with GS5, which happend 0/6 times)
> > > > > > > > > > > > b) most of us have never been on the golem with necro (okok, we honestly suck with that class)
> > > > > > > > > > > > c) not min max gear + buffood
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > it was a pretty chill (hehe) first try though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > we also 6 or 7(?) manned escort beforehand with 1 chrono rest necro.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > necro does fine in raids.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > no one here is arguing the capability of any profession to clear contents what we are here discussing is why a certain profession keep getting kicked from PUGs before they are allowed to do content
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > so you finaly agree that its not a balance issues, perfect. can we now talk about the social issue why necro(an dh also in that regard) have a chance of not beeing accepted?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > its is NOT a social issue its A PURE BALANCE issue as in a one certain profession doing way less than any other profession and it did stay at the bottom for too long
> > > > > > > > > and you want it to stay the lowest for some reason
> > > > > > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > > > > > sry, you sound like you want necro to be the be all, end all meta dps/support/power/condi class.
> > > > > > > > > i want necro to be treated inline with other profession i can only assume where this irrational hatred toward necro is coming from
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> > > > > > > LMAO
> > > > > > > what a sound argument that good necro can out DPS other profession played by bad players
> > > > > > > and a good player on any other profession can out preform god tier necro player by alot
> > > > > > > and by your definition its called a social issue
> > > > > > > and its not in the middle here is a hint [sC benchmark](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ "SC benchmark") you ll see both necro elites are in the bottom
> > > > > >
> > > > > > it might me a shocker but golem =/= actuall raidboss. you sound like an elitist!
> > > > > > look at the global stats https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats an filter by boss.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > from the data of gw2raidar stat filter by each boss and by taking the most effective DPS build for each profession on every boss and rank them on scale 1 to 9 (1 top 9 bottom) if a profession have 2 DPS build i ll take the highest and it will be counted as 1
> > > > > the result was
> > > > > encounter_____________necromancer rank __ necromancer DPS/NO.1 DPS
> > > > > Vale Guardian___________________6________________19.9/24.2
> > > > > Gorseval the Multifarious__________5________________18/21.3
> > > > > Sabetha the Saboteur____________6_________________19.7/23.2
> > > > > Slothasor______________________8_________________17.5/23.8
> > > > > Matthias Gabrel_________________5________________19.6/25
> > > > > Keep Construct_________________7_________________23.8/29
> > > > > Xera_________________________6_________________15.3/18.7
> > > > > Cairn the Indomitable___________9__________________24.4/35.9
> > > > > Mursaat Overseer______________9__________________25.7/33.2
> > > > > Samarog_____________________6__________________14.2/16.3
> > > > > Deimos______________________8__________________16.7/26.8
> > > > > Soulless Horror________________9__________________24.4/32.9
> > > > > Voice in the Void______________4__________________13.9/16.4
> > > > > Conjured Amalgamate__________6__________________35.1/46.5
> > > > > Twin Largos__________________5__________________17.7/25.2
> > > > > Qadim______________________7__________________13.9/18
> > > > >
> > > > > conclusion so the global stat from necromancer is 6.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> > > > > but the fact that necromancer out DPS warrior in most of the time because warrior is a support DPS and taking in account total DPS increase to the whole group , warrior will out perform necromancer and taking that in account the new corrected global stat from necromancer is 7.25 (highest possible score is 1 and lowest possible score is 9)
> > > > > and i like to call that necromancer performance coefficient in raid
> > > > > and you claim that neromancer is in the middle of pack is as obscured as you claim that the game is balanced because
> > > > > > @"sigur.9453" said:
> > > > > > as long as a good player on necro can outdps every other profession played by an average player, its not a balance issue.
> > > >
> > > > good job,well done.
> > > > now it would be interessting what scores the other classes have. then we can compare where necro actually stands.
> > > > and since appearently you don´t know, warrior has a dps build, so you really should not take banners into account when you compare the dps values.
> > >
> > > i know necro is underperforming so i did the math its necromancer forum after all and the warrior builds provided by gw2raidar is with banner and we all know that is better than warrior DPS and i did say i ll take the most effective DPS build
> > > if you want to do the math for other profession be my guest and from what i saw when i did my calculation necro would be at the bottom and the only other profession that might come close to necro will be ranger
> >
> > no, full stop!
> > first: the warrior build on raidar are WITH an WITHOUT Banners, they sadly share the same "slot". but be assured that the top numbers are done WITHOUT banners. on condi at least, on power psb should be better then core, and then also, without banners.
> > second: dont get me wrong here, i don´t mean it hostile, but your score for necro is pretty meaningless if you dont compare it with other classes.
> >
> > did a "quick one" for warrior and got a "score" of 7,06. so WORSE then necro overall. yet i was perfectly able to join every group as war dps player so far (2 years +). ---> balance doesn´t matter.
>
> i did told that i ll take the most effective build for each profession so warrior with banner is the most effective build for warriors (DPS increase to the whole group is added to warrior DPS)
> and trying to compare warrior to necro is obscured
> BTW by taking warrior banner into consideration warrior score will be higher and the corrected necro score is 7.25
you just can´t change values because they don´t fit you good madam/Sir.
or do you want do do the math vor chrono dps group increase with the boon share? keep it real here.
why is it obscure? explain.
what are you talking about? waah?!