Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"Thomas.1374" said:

> Just as the title says.

> I don't want to choose a main yet, cause the balance patch could reset my progress.

> Any advice welcomed.

Regarding:

> I don't want to choose a main yet

* Settle on that before the balance patch. We arent expecting complete reworks with the balance patch, so it's safe to assume classes will more or less play the same mechanically, just to varying degrees of effectiveness.

* Whichever class you like the feel of the most in terms of its general playstle (You can run a little PVE to find out whether or not you would like playing that way competitively), settle on that ASAP.

* Take a look at Metabattle for a detailed explanation of a known working build for your class, as well as how it works and what some of your skill synergies are.You do not need to adhere to the metabattle build, but it will let you know what does and doesnt work for specific playstyles.

* Read your tooltips. Learn what your skills do in their entirety.

* Fight training dummies. As a general rule, you want to be fluent enough with your class that you are dealing damage constantly, and can rotate through weapon or element/legend swaps without having to stop moving.

* Fight NpCs. Same as above, but they will fight back and get you familiar with a handful of animations you will need to dodge.

* Do not be afraid to deconstruct and redo your build. Metabattle is a template, but there are other options that have advantages for every class.

* Learn to control your camera. In addition to having a fluid rotation, you should be familiar enough with your camera that you are ready to move in any direction at any time, including about faces, without having to backpedal. Not only is backpedaling slow, it also tends to be an indicator of a novice player or a player without good grasp of their mobility, and will make your opponent more aggressive against you.

* Jump into the free for all arena and hit people. Usually they will respond by wiping you off the face of the earth, so prepare for that. Expect to die a lot as you learn what animations do what.

* Use the combat log and death log. They will indicate what you need to look out for from certain classes.

* Once you can reasonably hold your own vs most classes in the arena, try out unranked and be prepared to play that for a while. On top of learning your class mechanics, you also need to learn about conquest strategy, what secondary objectives do, and what classes tend to behave like in the conquest matches. That's a whole other section of info, so for now just focus on understanding your classes's rotation (how and why it works), as well as picking a class you are willing to invest in for a reasonable amount of time.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > Do PvP players want a smaller player base because this is how you get a smaller player base.

> >

> > I get that running up against premades in unranked is frustrating, It sucks for the solo players at unranked, but the playerbase will suffer more from the alternative as it stands.

> >

>

> Your right, but my frustration isn't any less justified. My outlook of PvP is bleak at this point. Unless this next patch changes stuff in a big way some how I think I'll finally have had enough.

Hopefully Swiss gives premades a more rewarding way to do team pvp that isnt struggling to make automatics, and we will still have breathing room for solo players after its implementation.

The team players werent happy about getting booted out of ranked either, but before we bleed more players by shoving teams back into ranked again stabilizing the classes comes first.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> Do PvP players want a smaller player base because this is how you get a smaller player base.

I get that running up against premades in unranked is frustrating, We do have a group of people that want to also ranked solo, though.

Ideally ranked should be for teams, and unranked should be for solo. You're going to upset a group of people no matter what option you pick though.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > Custom arenas for that OP

> > >

> > > Go tell that to AT groups queuing unranked.

> >

> > That was for you to avoid getting 5 man teams against you, not them.

>

> Why is it always the AT teams and top of the leader board players that have the right-of-way in PvP? The kitten am I doing getting queued multiple times against a pre-made? One time? Sure. Multiple times? Come on now, I even waited a good 10 minutes to try to queue dodge them. Way do I have to stop playing the game mode to avoid getting roflstomped because Anet can't make a 5 man ranked mode? This is the reason the pvp community is shrinking is people having to tip toe around this kitten. It's not on me, it's on anet. I didn't choose to play against these guys, I was put against them. Don't go blaming me I didn't want this.

This sentiment is probably precisely why so many people voted for solo q and fight tooth and nail to stop premades from seeping back into ranked to begin with, actually. Neither the players that want to rank nor the players that play unranked want to be pubstomped. Unranked just happens to be the less punishing place to put the premades (and ironically this choice punishes ranked because now ranked is subjected to wintrading/match manip), but-

I've been thinking about this off and on. Premades do indeed fix the problems of people not pulling their weight in ranked/unranked, but at the cost of anyone that just wants a quick game's sanity.

We probably dont have enough players to satisfy both wishes (in the sense of making a team and solo queue for both unranked and ranked) , on top of that. I hope that swiss provides a more frequent /better rewarded system for people that want to do team comps so we have enough room for both player flavors.

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> Go q ranked if u want to avoid 5man q’s

I mean, he's right. I don't know whether that's good or bad at this point.

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

> > > ---

> > >

> > > Seriously, this is what you all asked for 2 years ago the removal of conditions 2 years fast forward we are in a pure power meta and guess what its bursty as hell. I warned you guys 2 years ago about this. All them condition mirages did convert to power shatter and all the other condition builds like necros went to reaper. Blame yourselves.

> > >

> > > We can solve this by allowing condition specs back in pvp.

> >

> > Condition oriented builds that do high levels of damage while also having high sustainability and ability to escape lockdowns are not any less busted and poisonous to the meta because there's a power meta now. There still needs to be a limit on any build, whether condi or power oriented, regarding how much time they allow for response to power damage delivery and damaging conditions. No matter what the meta happens to be, there is no justification for builds that are unreasonable to fight across the board.

>

> This was never true then and it isnt now. People then and now refused to put a new skill on there bar and would have rather have the mechanic gone then be given tools to deal with the mechanic.

You're half right. There were a contingent of people complaining that refused to adapt, sure. But Condition Mirage in the state that it was in was insane. It has been under the knife more times than almost any other condi spec, and it still remains a strong contender for sidenoding. Thieves were stacking 25+ poison on you in a short period of time before they got rebalanced. It is true that some people are griping and not using what they have to fix the problem, but there indeed have been valid concerns.

> I was here when the entire debate started about condition damage and it started FAR LATER in the gamer during PoF hot and vanilla gw2 was absolutely fine with LESS condition removal then we had in PoF. Conditions had been in the game for a long time only in the recent 2 years has it been nerf so hard.

Some of the condi changes for the PoF era were recent, and new synergies were discovered and became mainstream for Condi Mirage during that time. Nerfs caught up, and any new builds that -resembled- that condi builds power level swiftly got tapped down as well.

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

> ---

>

> Seriously, this is what you all asked for 2 years ago the removal of conditions 2 years fast forward we are in a pure power meta and guess what its bursty as hell. I warned you guys 2 years ago about this. All them condition mirages did convert to power shatter and all the other condition builds like necros went to reaper. Blame yourselves.

>

> We can solve this by allowing condition specs back in pvp.

Condition oriented builds that do high levels of damage while also having high sustainability and ability to escape lockdowns are not any less busted and poisonous to the meta because there's a power meta now. There still needs to be a limit on any build, whether condi or power oriented, regarding how much time they allow for response to power damage delivery and damaging conditions. No matter what the meta happens to be, there is no justification for builds that are unreasonable to fight across the board.

excess of anything, whether its power damage, sustain or condi damage needs to be addressed. The people that complained about condi mirage/condi thief/class here in particular were not wrong, and people suddenly getting instanuked on non glass amulets by spiteful mesmers/thieves/class here without telegraph whose builds allow them to do that just means there's two problems. not one.

Also, necros aren't playing reaper. They're playing core, because its the only answer to people that know how to kite short of dying.

> @"WillPaharu.4837" said:

> Not the damaging any way. the utility ones, fine. like blind and such.

>

> Condi builds don't have a place in competitive gaming.

No.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> Condis are easier to deal with than power

> BUT

> Condi skill animations are way more subtle.

This.

Either very carefully balance so each class has reasonable access to cleanse for what the current condi meta demands, or make the skills that put high condition stacks on you more noticeable/more avoidable, then reduce cleanse so you have to struggle with that 15 bleed stack you got nailed with for not dodging a 2 second cast. that's a fine line to walk, but its doable.

> @"The Quad.8625" said:

> Hi ArenaNet.

>

> So 6 months ago I wrote a thread on why I could not get a Skyscale (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/78566/why-i-will-never-be-able-to-get-a-skyscale#latest). You addressed the topic and since then I have had my mount for many months and I absolutely LOVE it! It was worth all the gold and time I spend unlocking it. It has opened up the whole game for me and I can finally get 100% map completion much easier now. Thank you!

>

> My Springer and Griffon have been retired to a farm somewhere and they are resting. I take them out now and again so they don't get jealous of the Skyscale. :-)

I'm so happy to just see objective joy coming from players flying with dragon buds all over the map.

That's real wholesome.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> That's what I thought, too, but even I was finally able to manage it and I play very casually.

This. I live in Heart Of the Mists and havent gotten my skyscale yet, but between the wiki and a little furstration Ive made some progress on it. Only a matter of time, a little grind here and there.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > You could argue anytime you take home then wipe them at mid you all should just sit at mid/watch home and you probably win more often. But we don't we wipe um at mid and instantly 2 or 3 charge their home and then get wiped and the match turns. I def have come back more often cause of dumb moves by the other team but it's hard to get players to sit in wait instead of charge and fight regardless of the score so you have to be the guy making good decisions when you see victory in sight

>

> Someone has to push far, otherwise opponent team will gain points for free.

That depends largely on how hard the team wiped. If theyre -ALL- on respawn and they see their home being decapped, they can just outnumber home then take mid, or outnumber mid then pull back to home.

If they wiped staggered, decapping home then immediately leaving to keep them split and feeding you if they arent cohesive is almost always the better option.

> @"Ghetx.1752" said:

> To push for more than one node at 480 points,while enemy has 400 points?

>

> Instead of stacking and waiting it out for 10 seconds,you proceed to spread out,and lost game,while being 80 points ahead.

>

> Now i have seen it all,pvp is really the most brainless part of this game.

>

> There's really no point of trying to contribute your team,because you will give your 200% while rest of the team cant use their brain and there's ALWAYS going to be someone who's gonna ruin your effort.

You know what fixes that?

Premades.

Funny Jokes aside, I dont know why people keep avoiding that conclusion . Ranked right now is "lol dont take it serious" or "Lol duo queue or queue dodge for good games", but the moment people suggest being allowed to pick 5 people for their team to minimize people not pulling their weight, hordes of people come out of the woodwork decrying them, and some even suggest the removal of duo queue.

Solo Queue matches bombing because of carry meta not working out is not any less frustrating than getting steamrolled by a handpicked team. In fact, in the latter case at least what you will blame for the loss is something you can see.

There's no way to take ranked serious when your rank depends on 5 people performing the same task, often without even knowing each other.

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> Comments are only disabled on the unlisted video made to announce tomorrow's Guild Chat. I don't think it'll be the norm.

>

> Edit: Link to the post for anyone wondering https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-chat-shadow-in-the-ice-preview/

Oh, I see. Comments probably turned off to stop speculation from uncovering what the trailer means until the Guild Chat?

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> Maybe you got banned from posting there?

^?

I can comment as well.

> @"Arken.3725" said:

> While I understand the posts above sentiment, condition spread of a fb isn't nearly as insane a most other professions. My issue with that proposed Nerf is that if you do that and all you have again is burning with nothing to keep it ticking (like core and dh) it'll never be useful.

Then what are we looking for, burn stack reduction? I will disagree that the condi spread is more than it should be, but I don't main guard so I am open to being wrong on that.

I still think that it does too much to single targets for a support build. Either its boon application should be more support facing(particularly so that it cant cover its mobility weakness with Shining River and most of its non-preservative boon applications, like might, get pushed to allies rather than itself), or the damage it itself can put off should be reduced (in as much as burn stacks and weapon coefficients).

Slow, but immovable is okay in my book. Slow and Strong also is (as long as it can mitigate some damage too). Fast, Strong and Immovable not so much.

> @"Alin.2468" said:

> If I remember correctly, people voted in huge majority for SoloQ, in like 80% (answer is in the old deleted forum). A second vote would have been redundant considering the polemics were settled and community was no longer screaming on forum regarding this subject.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> 1. They said it would be a beta season. They didn't say this would be permanent. And this poll was presented before ANYONE knew how badly players were going to exploit this system with match manipulation. Back then, I even voted YES for the beta season for this system. On paper, it sounded good.

Can confirm it was also supposed to be a trial. It says so on the link itself. I voted yes in that poll, but I was expecting it to be temporary/for one season. Not.... This.

https://i.imgur.com/99pSyRv.png

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > I think bringing 5 man Que back to ranked is a HORRIBLE idea. **I think it would be much better to stop allowing duo que and make everyone solo que in ranked.** that would make it the MOST balanced on average.

> >

> > Or just get rid of the rating system because the idea of the same rating applying to people who 5 man vs solo que makes the entire idea of rating a HUGE JOKE.

>

> Solo-only queue past a certain rating has been tried before and what it leads into is everyone running tryhard side node builds. People running the most broken "carry" builds to try 3v1ing enemies. This is NOT a fun playstyle.

>

> The teammates are also at peak fluctuation here. It'll be impossible to climb unless you invest in some cheese bunker build that is very boring and not indicative of how AT's play out.

It also puts every player at the mercy of any player on their team caving to bribery/wintrade propositions, thus not fixing the issue we have with queuing right now.

> @"rowdy.5107" said:

> Im guessing it will only be a matter of time before these "top players" get banned for match manipulation and win trading. Funny, when you face these "top players" in the arena and in unranked. they get WRECKED.

1.) It's true. There are a handful of players that make really bad decisions up close that make you wonder how they have plat/ X of the Arena. Some of those people with "I'm skilled" titles like Kronos and Markuhitos(did I spell that right? Sylvari rev?) are legit, but others...

2.) I wouldn't expect it to go anywhere as long as people keep thinking ranked means something/is worth anything in its current state. Match manipulation is hard to prove, because the only people who know of it that aren't stupid are people that would also be hurt by disclosing it.

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> As I've said before, Firebrands represent what other classes should be. Its not that they're too strong, its that everything else is weak.

I think that I've seen every class that has been deemed busted or overpowered make this claim at some point. I've done it myself perhaps.

Which is easier? Nerfing one or buffing 8?

Even if that was the case, The fact that every class has too much access to everything is why the balance patch has 800+ skill splits.

If you don't have an exploitable weakness that is more approachable than "destroy my 10 horticruxes" then you probably need shaving. It doesn't even need to be big, just a drawback that people can game around.

We keep coming back here to this argument every time a class becomes rotationally immortal. Like under the surface everyone wants bunker meta again.

I support all of these, particularly the first. Arena is basically my second home while I wait for Swiss/anything more frequent than automatics that doesnt subject me to what solo q is doing right now.

And the traps are annoying. Let the people who got their way into Champions Rest get like a special throne chair or something they can use to overlook the arena. Let them put up flags or something that's visual only, that's less obnoxious to people who want to pvp. Ganking will never stop but at least ganking puts them in a spot where they can get steamrolled.

> @"gdubze.6015" said:

> Either way bribery or wintrading, people say its not happening even in lower brackets but the evidence speaks for itself. This is what artificially keeps players in the wrong league brackets

This right here is important.

I wouldn't expect people benefiting from it at least in some regard to claim anything other than it doesn't exist, but this is what happens when you have a team that you have no rapport with and have enough power to cause a loss by inaction and get away scot free.

Whether he was joking or not (and he obviously wasnt because afk is observable), people will pay or cheat their way up the ranking board if the system lets them. And not only that, if you are not insulated by a team of people you trust you also become susceptible to people using that same influence to tank your teams. to spite you.

Breaking up team games was a mistake. We underestimated how low people would be willing to go for adulation.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > They have high ratings because of players like me that test off meta builds in ranked.

> >

> > That and after all these years I am still clueless about how conquest works.

> >

> > I still have to stutter step with another player who might (25 stacks) be getting home.

> >

> >

>

> Nerf Crab Fear, makes top players too stronk

Thief is supposed to be +1. Nobody said it couldnt be +1 for opposite t- **dishonored**

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Ha.

>

> I countered your counter already.

>

> I ALWAYS waste my steal.

>

~~I hate this~~ Of course oversights like that would need to be looked at

Yes, but __only very slightly__ .

Maybe Shining river needs a touch. Maybe a slight damage nerf or a condi spread shave.

I'm totally fine with guards being support as long as they have to take their time getting to a point or be escorted, and can't beat down people in addition to being omegatanky. The core of that is fine, but pick one or the other. If theyre support, their offensive capabilities should buff their allies but their defensive ones should affect them.

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > @"Tycura.1982" said:

> > Before the game came out from way back when I thought steal would literally steal a skill from someone. That would be really cool for Pvp. Similar to how it is now but instead of preset skills per class thief would copy the last skill used. Barring that give them the "Use Scepter" steal skill when stealing from eles.

>

> Tbh this would be amazing and could really create some bait-counter play. It would be fun to try and stow-cancel important skills to try and bait a steal so they waste it.

We had that in game too for GW2 for a little. There was a WvW event where killing someone gave you a skill on your bar that the defeated class had access to. Wouldnt be opposed to it if implemented right.

Well done on the update. I might want a few of those for my guardian.

GW2 handles their MMO really damn well in terms of combat mechanics and design. I just __wish the competitive side was shown a bit more love__ .

> @"Fearless.3569" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"Bassdeff.1895" said:

> > > If players aren't already trying their hand at PvP nothing will encourage them to do so. Most GW2 players want nothing to do with PvP and I don't blame them. It has always been the most toxic mode of the game and the rewards are kind of kitten.

> >

> > Things could be done to try to draw in PvP players from other games. I don't agree we can't encourage people to do so. I had several guildies who had no intention of trying it until I talked them into it and they had a fun time running with me as a team. Now we play on the regular together. That's not a scaleable solution though, that's why I'm asking this question.

>

> You can't draw players to PvP from other games that has PvP when....

>

> - AFKers go unpunished

> - Match Throwers and manipulators go unpunished

> - Botting go unpunished

> - Win Trading go unpunished

> - PvP rank and leaderboards only reflects who is the best at bending the rules with outer game METAs.

> - Your skill does not reflect your rank

> - Devs. just don't give it nearly as much attention as other games that have PvP

> - You are punished more for expressing your discontent in a match for such ongoing while they go completely unpunished.

> The above are reasons GW2 have no chance to pull PvPers from other games with PvPers in them.

This is the most accurate summation of the issues. I can't recommend this competitively because, sooner or later, you're going to get matched with people that orchestrate throwing to inflate their own numbers, and there's nothing you can do to counter it.

If there is visible proof that the above is being addressed, and people that have been found to be manipulating matches get their rewards and rankings pulled, then we can talk about promoting PvP.