Azure The Heartless.3261

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> >

>

> > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

 

What if I don't see the mesmer go into stealth? lets say they've entered stealth behind a brick wall and I'm not in combat.

What if the mesmer -Is- running mass invis?

What if the memser is running Torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding? Decoy still stealths you if you dont have a target in range selected, and it wont spawn a clone to give you away if you so choose.

What if the mesmer has entered stealth behind me, behind an obstacle and has blinked into GS range to set up burst?

These are all situations you can run into on the field that would make counting to dodge burst not effective.

 

Not every situation starts out with you visually identifying the mesmer.

Not that any of this detracts from the point that "Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth". That is a fact. Stealth has no telegraph. if it does, I'd like spammable backstab back.

 

 

> @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> reve are unkillable, need some fixing.

 

XD

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> PvP has died how many times already?

 

Every season

> @"Axelteas.7192" said:

> Hack dont kill the PVP, **this died when Gw2 became free to play**. Anyone can create alter accounts and put toons afk to manipulate combats.

 

Yep, this is a major problem we all have to deal with. People with no prior experience or even an investment in the game logging on, thinking "hey lets go play ranked for leaderboard" and tanking teams, or people creating alts with [redacted way to manipulate matches] to tilt games.

 

 

...

 

When Ranked fails, Custom Arena will prevail.

 

lmao I like this

30 pages of Nerf Mesmer tears inc

 

We're almost dere

> @"Jojo.6590" said:

 

>First off, the level of toxicity amongst players in these “OP class” threads is degusting. When you debate with someone and can no longer disprove or prove your point and then jump to stating the other person’s grammar is bad, they’re bed, etc you automatically INVADIALTE your entire side.

 

_No you don't. You don't get to discredit a fair point in its entirety based on the nature of a portion of the the people who made it. You may only do that if they do not have a solid foundation for accusing the target of the argument (in this case, mesmer being broken) to begin with. People get passionate, especially when things are unfair. You can only disregard them if they are lying or completely unfounded. The nature of the argument is the class is, at this time, overpowered, and that holds true in several cases for Mesmer._

 

>The amount of fabricated claims against Mesmer is just insane at this point. Eight plus clones to prema stealth, the list goes on. Before claiming a class is broken why don’t you try playing it first, to see how it functions. Mesmer cannot have any more than THREE clones up at one time! However, they may have 3 clones up and several phantasms at one time. Phantasms are extremely easy to notice as they’re a transparent purple/ pink. The Phantasm change was a very BIG quality of life change for Mesmer, especially because of how its main mechanic functions. This is both a buff and a nerf, as Mesmers can no longer rely on phantasms to rally them when they’re down. If you every played Mesmer, it has some of the WORST down state abilities.

 

You're ignoring the fact that "several phantasms" is a large portion of what makes the class currently broken. The fact that they are extremely easy to notice IS part of the problem, not to mention to the fact that "several" can easily mean half a dozen, each of which do damage, apply soft cc, and grant boons. If you would, please take a look at the Staff / Sword Shield Chronomancer. No class should be able to manifest so many phantasms that it locks down anyone outside of 900r.

 

People who do not play mesmer will use "clone" as a blanket term for "illusion" or "phantasm" I am pretty sure the balance team knows this as well.

 

_I'll ignore the low hanging fruit of "Mesmers can no longer rely on phantasms to rally them while they're down."_

 

>Some of my favorite fabricated complaints about Mesmer besides the two mentioned already includes the ones asking to do away with clones/ phantasms completely as its too hard to tell where the Mesmer is, or how **Mesmer has no tells on its more devastating skills.**

 

Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

 

>Understand this clearly, this is the gimmick of Mesmer, its not going to change, learn to tab target or acutely focus the clones. Fighting a Mesmer is like playing the game “one of these things does not belong”, the one with the most buffs on their bar usually is the Mesmer, that’s not hard to notice, unless you don’t pay attention to it! Because of the phantasm changes you can NO longer ignore clones, you need to kill them. This is extremely easy to do since they have very little health. Its also not hard to tell When a Mesmer is going to shatter, look 3 clones are up and they’re all suddenly running towards me = shatter inc.

 

**We aren't largely complaining that mesmer is too hard to find. We are claiming that mesmer has too much access to too many tools for fights versus mesmers to be fair. Deflection.**

 

>Or better yet the claims that stealth is too powerful for Mesmer as it can hide them, before they burst.

>You know that’s not just a massive tell but there is also another class called thief that does this too, maybe you should treat the Mesmer a bit like a >thief when you notice them going into stealth.

 

Deflection, but I'll bite. You mean whine for their damage to be nerfed? Got it.

 

 

>Last are the ones asking for Mesmer to see 70%-80% damage reduction, THAT’S STRIGHT UP GUTTING A CLASS, does not matter what class this is >done to THAT’S GUTTING ALL DAMAGE FROM A CLASS

 

O h l o o k.

 

> There are other classes/ specs way more broken them Mesmer! Warrior, Guard, Reve, Ranger, Thief, Necro all have specs that are extremely powerful/ broken. Yet all the hate is pushed towards Mesmer, because Its suddenly good to play when it once was not too much of a threat. What Mesmer is currently able to do now Thief has been able to due for years! The amount of condies a Mesmer puts out is nothing compared to a necro nor the stacks of burning from a fire brane. Ranger; decent mobility, health regen, and a pet that does about 95% of their damage while they can soak up everything and anything. I can go way more into detail but if you made it this far I guess its time for what you’ve been waiting for!

 

Deflection. It's always been a threat and all of those classes you listed have at one point been D or E tier. OMEGALUL REVE.

 

>F4 ability distortion causes any clones (max of 3) that were destroyed by this ability to spawn mirage mirrors due to the desert distortion trait. Each mirror procs mirage cloak which does not just trigger the ambush attack but also triggers renewing oasis and evasive mirror (the later if an attack was avoided). EM is a free break out of jail free card and condi cleanse, but only when the dodge button is used. Signet of Illusions is used to reset distortion to do the rotation again with little to no down time, thus making a mirage very difficult to pin down. On top of this, the ambush on the one handed sword is upright over powered, it is a spam-able blink that does not require you to actually hit the dodge button like EM nor does it require you to have a target to cast, it simply requires mirage cloak.

 

I zoomed in on "only when the dodge button is used", as if endurance is a hefty price to pay for not eating a burst when you're out of cds.

 

> Chrono:

> This has to do mostly with just one trait and the phantasm change, and that is Chronophantasma; When a phantasma dies it is re-summoned, does its attack again and then dies and becomes a clone. This definitely needs some changes and is why phantasmal Defender/ disenchanter is so powerful. Either put an ICD on it or it change it so that phantasms no longer spawn a clone after it dies.

 

If you go that route, the problem is also with Continuum split, and Ether signet. It would be easier to cap the phantasms or reduce their damage/effects.

 

Mesmer mains are saying the phantasm change is "much needed". And I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that given that pve might need it. A revert would be nice, but it is unfeasible given that the balance team cannot split mechanics between pve and pvp/wvw.

 

> I Have posted this as a show of good faith, in hopes of seeing other players come out about what truly is broken for their classes as I have for mine. This is what the forums are for, not fighting each other, that’s why we have PVP! If we do this, it will make it that much more easy for the Devs to properly balance classes, and maybe give them a bit of extra time to create some cool surprises for us.

 

Deflection.

 

Yes. The class needs to be balanced from the top down. Please do not gut mesmer's core like you've done with several other specs when elites overperform, balance devs. That being said, they still have a heaping plate of advantages, and it needs to be addressed.

 

I read your whole post, what do I win?

 

 

 

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> But what if my account only has one character on it?

 

time 2 lrn teef

I hit my nonsense threshold in the first few sentences and autotl;dr'd

Gw3 is a myth.

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> One fall or slip and you might as well not finish it because you're not doing it in time for the Achieve.

 

That's specifically why I like it though...

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Capping the phantasms is an awful solution. It doesn't address the synergy between a specific trait and skill combination that is overperforming. But it affects the entire class, not to mention severely hamstrings everything mesmer does. In your rush to cap phantasms, you completely ignore how that will harm our ability to generate clones, since those are dependent on getting phantasms out.

 

Would it though? You would still be able to generate clones through passives and utilities. Is adding another set of illusion slots specifically for phantasms actually a hamstring, and if so can you give me a situation where that would be a substantial nerf? I'm not talking about jamming your clone slots with your active phantasms, but I also don't have a hundred hours on mesmer, so that would be appreciated.

 

> SotE had its CD lowered, because as a heal its very lackluster for a 35 second CD. The active effect on it should be changed, and then almost every problem people have with illusion spam would go out the window, without needlessly nerfing the class. Sure, some of it would still be possible if you abuse CS. But wasting a 105 second CD to double up on a phantasm is not a great idea, in any situation. Not to mention its an incredibly limited opportunity, coming in at over 3x the CD of SotE.

 

That would tentatively help for Mirage and core. Chronos with the Chronophantasma gm would probably still be too strong.

 

 

> @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> The only sad thing is that they have thrown away another PvP season. And the real problem lies to when it is rotated correctly there is hardly a counter for it, at worst case it will escape. Ideally there should be classes countering each other and never 'gifted' ones. That would produce a healthy competitive environment and no complaints.

 

This.

I don't care if everything is a little bit broken, or some traits are strong against other classess. As long as classes can be built to shut down the spec, that's a good place to be.

> @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

>words

 

Or we can do perfect imbalance where everyone is a little bit broken, but in ways that make other classes, builds, or specs counter them.

 

 

3,3,3,3,3, 5,5,5,5,5, 4,4,4,4,4, 1,1,1,1,1, and 2,2,2,2,2 are not accepted strategies for winning as thief.

As thief, you must die and never decap far.

They're working on it. Don't give exploits attention in public, where other people who may have an interest in picking up the exploits can see it. It'll make the problem worse for everyone involved.

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > I want to play power reaper

> > >

> > > but nope

> >

> > It's not bad once you get used to it. just hard. I run GS/Staff with very few issues apart from the mesmer thing.

>

> I have over 2000 matches on reaper alone. I like to think that I'm used to the whole Reaper thing at this point.

 

I didn't notice I was responding to you, of all people.

oof.gif

I still like it though.

[Disclaimer: Friend's suggestion.]

 

Every problem in pvp solved ever, immediately. /hyperbole

 

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> I want to play power reaper

>

> but nope

 

It's not bad once you get used to it. just hard. I run GS/Staff with very few issues apart from the mesmer thing.

> @"Itz Jay.8941" said:

> RULES of the TEEF

>

> 1: It is always the fault of the theif.

> 2: If it isn't, please refer to rule 1.

> 3 The job of theif is to decap far, rip boons from foes granting them to allies instead rendering them useless and to remove the last portion of the targeted enemies health in team fights. Theif also must stomp with his stealth and utility, he must also interrupt stomps on allies. He must also stealth allies when they are downed or low health, he must also +1 fights to either defeat enemies or just enable full capping of nodes. If in any case the theif doesn't do this, you get downed and die, or lose a fight on any section of the map, please refer to rule 1

> 4 Even though theif no longer has the quick burst, headshots, mobility and quick stealth capabilities of D/P, it doesn't matter, in any case rule 1 still applies.

> 5 Only one rule actually matters, please refer to rule 1

>

> **EDIT:

> Most important rule**: If the theif is playing deadeye (as long as he is not Vallun) he is not actually a theif and is in fact a potato playing a potato build worse than the worst revenent builds, in this case you must instantly bombard him with insults in the hope that he swaps class, which he won't, because he thinks he is a theif. In the case that he doesn't swap class, well, you might as-well alt+F4 and tell the enemy team members how much gold you want for the win trade on discord.

 

The only PVP Strategy guide you will ever need

I went to go look at the chrono spec on paper.

 

**Phantasmal Warlock** does Damage (3x): 498 (0.45), and spawns two instances, at 1200 range. Each strike puts two stacks of vuln on you.

**Phantasmal Swordsman** does Damage: 504 (0.5)?, and gives the mesmer 8 stacks of might if it hits, at 1200 range.

**Echo of Memory**, if block channels, does Damage: 907 (0.9)? once the illusion gets out, at 900 range. It also slows you for 2 seconds, and gives the mesmer protection.

**Phantasmal Defender,** once spawned, does a 900 range taunt for three seconds and at base does Damage: 452 (0.46)? This can increase up to 500% based on damage received, which makes its max damage raw 2,260.

**Phantasmal Disenchanter** rips boons from your target at 900r, doing 400 damage if you have at least one boon, and 1,007 damage raw if you have no boons. It takes 5 boons off of you. This attack can bounce, so one instance can hit you multiple times. _You can't block this._

 

You can have all of this on one build. note that none of the skills ever require you to get within 900r of your opponent.

 

1. With [Mental Defense](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mental_Defense "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mental_Defense"), you can cast another defender if you block or evade an attack. if you evade multiple attacks in one dodge, you can summon multiple defenders.

 

2. [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether") heals you for 350 on a 1 second interval whenever you summon an illusion. if you pop it it refreshes ALL of your phantasms immediately, except for the one noted in 1.

 

3. [Chronophantasma](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chronophantasma "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chronophantasma") Makes all illusions resummon themselves after performing their initial attack.

 

So you have at least one taunt, potentially more if the mesmer happens to dodge, an unblockable projectile that does damage and wipes your boons, vuln being applied to you, slow being applied to you, might being applied to the mesmer, and damage being applied to you for hitting the target taunting you.

 

And these phantasms can have their cooldowns refreshed instantly.

And with Chronophantasma, they get summoned twice.

And none of them require the mesmer to get in closer than 900r.

And Continuum split refreshes the illusions recharges AND the signet that allows you to recharge the illusions.

So, with a rotation, you can summon... 12, probably 18 phantasms (probably even more than that), that rip boons from the opponent, apply taunt to keep them from moving, put vuln on the opponent, grant the mesmer might, and slow the opponent.

 

Oh, and every time an illusion manifests, including when phantasms become clones, _the mesmer heals._

 

And they started a season with mesmer in this state.

And some mesmers are angry because people are complaining about screen clutter.

And Mirage is still broken because someone thought it was a good idea to let mesmers also get out of stuns for free.

 

I don't understand the rationale behind letting this get through playtesting. Someone DID test this right?

What I do understand, however, is that Signet of the Ether is not the only problem. Even without it, chronophantasma and cont. split will make the phantasms spammy.

 

 

Cap them at three.

 

 

 

My condolences to those braving ranked this season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Press escape.

> Go to options.

> Go to graphics options.

> LOD distance: medium, preferably high.

> Character Model Limit: High.

>

> If you’re getting lower FPS then lower other settings a little, great candidates are post processing, shadows and shaders, antialiasing, turning off hi-res character textures and turning down Character Model Quality.

>

> Remember it’s better to see a potato coming than for it to kill you because you can’t see it, no one likes being killed by a potato.

 

How about we not be forced to change our graphics settings to deal with -one- class and instead fix the class?

> @"paShadoWn.5723" said:

> This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

 

This is the same argument people used to defend bunker ventari revs, bunker turret engineers, scourges, cele eles, bunker guards, current druids and basically everything else that requires you to devote two people just to fight one person.

 

Just wanted to point that out. If it was a team game, it would be balanced around 1v1 so a certain class didnt immediately cause a balancing issue when capping nodes.

 

It's not a strong argument to protect overpowered specs.

 

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

 

 

 

People are hyped up and angry because chrono and mirage are busted, esp with the recent rework that allows multiple illusion casts, and all traits the class owns are now being scrutinized. People are finding that the traits give too much for too little, especially compared to some of the other classes that have seen multiple nerfs in the spirit of removing passive play and such.

 

The problem is with chrono and mirage benefiting multiple times over from really good synergy, and the majority of their traitlines being good for general use instead of being borderline useless except for specific situations.

 

Hopefully Anet does not overnerf. the problem lies with the elites, not with core. start from the top, then shave closer to core as you need.

lmfao /14chars

My capturing was originally done in a trash format so I am redoing -everything- in order to make it look proper. In the meanwhile, I've picked a couple of wins and losses versus the Mesmers I could get ahold of (as well as a warrior because surprise, it works on melee wars too) to just show.

 

I'll do it better and make a compilation vid as I go.

 

Disclaimers:

 

* I'm bad at rev

* In no way do I believe these matches are indicative of lack of skill by my opponents, or my skill as a Herald.

* I lost a billion times

 

 

[A Chrono vs. Herald](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=ABWMUYYfn-U")

[Vs. Staff Mirage](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=kVNM3fSKyck")

[Vs. Warrior](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=QLW2knydBDw")

[Vs. Mirage](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=FrDbpif-eOE")

[Vs. Aforementioned Mirage](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=DGTMCoLKnwA")

 

Thoughts so far are I'm either bad or its too hard to perform consistently. I'm going to keep grinding it though.

 

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> Condi Mirage is definitely a counter to the meta power staff (Chronophantasma Disenchanter). I have fought other condi classes, and when not built with the correct amulet, it can melt if you screw up. Thank you for actually noticing, nad making a constructive thread about this instead of just another complain thread. I'm putting a ton of time into learning that build on the chrono to learn what counters it as it's the number one build I've gotten complaints on, but am ont unkillable unless my opponents don't have condis, or I mess up and eat them.

 

Update:

 

Having an incredibly hard time with staff mesmers, so I question this.

 

Still working on this where I can and _losing a whole lot of matches_, but the ones where I was not outplayed from the start seem to be lost because of stealth plays in order to heal.

 

I don't think it's a hard counter, but it does work. grinding it some more.