Cynz.9437

Raise of the engi and ranger overlords?

> @"azzardome.9184" said: > man pls buff thief, class trash :( I wouldn't say trash i do wish thief had more options (e.g. support, give me baaaard plzzz) beside being only decap bot. I know, i know, other classes have same issues but frankly i think there would be less complains about having 2 thieves on team, less complaining about nature of the thief, maybe more viable spots in raids and also less cases of wvw zergs instantly kicking thief players if the class had more roles. All that xpacs brought us were just another annoying dps specs that is why even 8? years later we still mostly run d/p with some s/d and rifle in between and generate hate in the community. On other hand think about how meta changed for example for guards or engi, at some points they were running support, node holder, side noder, decap builds, straight dmg etc. I currently don't have enough equipment slots and templates because... of my mesmer. Yep, not thief, but mesmer.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > > > > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > > > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > > > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > > > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > > > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. > > > > Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much. > > try having 2 mesmers or 2 elementalists :D Been there, done that. Still had higher chance to win simply because those 2 can fight while holding point (although mirage less so) where thief has to stealth to survive and do damage which leads them to lose point. Let make it so all classes lose few ticks of point when using healing spell or high damaging attack. Don't like it? Thought so.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much.

> @"appelflap.8310" said: > > I personally think the problem is rather that every other nerf was justfied with IA existing as it was. Now they nerf IA + Signet, what does it mean for other nerfs that have been implemented in the past? I mean, they can nerf all they want, i just wonder, what does Anet want for thief in general? If decap/+1 is now allowed, what is? Dueling? People hate it. Condi? People hate it. Support? There is no support build for thief beside BT in raids in some encounters. Tank thief? Healer? Not really possible. Which is it? > > Thief (daredevil) is still a +1/decap after patch, you just need a bit more skill now I think you misunderstand me. Previous nerfs have been justified with the point that thief was supposed to be decap bot. Hence why mobility is where thief was supposed to shine. Now you can't argue IA + sigil wasn't quite hefty nerf to mobility and to + role. Sure, you can override it with "skill" but fact remains - they once again touched mobility. Meaning, nothing will stop them from doing it in the future as well. So my question is, what thief supposed to be in eyes of devs. I mean, they wouldn't nerf IA if they thought decap bot was ok. The reason why they nerfed IA + sigil because they obviously thought that thief had too much mobility. However this kind of contradicts the narrative that devs told us in the past. Also, you "skill" argument is kind of faulty here. I could apply it to any other things. Guess what, then many things wouldn't exist in this game anymore be it open world or certain classes/mechanics. E.g. you don't need passive traits or pets if all could be easily covered by "skill" so there should be no problem to remove them all together. Somehow i doubt players maining certain classes would love such change though.

> @"appelflap.8310" said: > So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd, how is that underwhelming? **If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past. ** I personally think the problem is rather that every other nerf was justfied with IA existing as it was. Now they nerf IA + Signet, what does it mean for other nerfs that have been implemented in the past? I mean, they can nerf all they want, i just wonder, what does Anet want for thief in general? If decap/+1 is now allowed, what is? Dueling? People hate it. Condi? People hate it. Support? There is no support build for thief beside BT in raids in some encounters. Tank thief? Healer? Not really possible. Which is it?

I have a friend that has name that looks like CD-key, was an accident. He is just your average GW2 player, not a bot. Apparently happens to some people. Tbh, the bots i haven't seen bots with cd-key as name yet.

> @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. **Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play.** But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. I am actually confused now. I thought the main consensus was that thief is ez to play, free win, etc. which people basically used to justify any kind of hate/nerf wishes for the class. Now i read this. So which is it actually? Also, i really would like to remind the community that there have been been times in this game when thieves were built more around evades/dodges and dueling - everyone screamed bloody murder and begged for nerfs, because, oh wonder, thieves playing those builds didn't just lie down and gave free point. Honestly, be careful of what you wish for. Does anyone remember the initial explanation from Anet, why thief fighting capability got heavily nerfed pre-HoT? Right, it was mobility. Every patch since then has been justified with "teef should be decapper, not dueler". Now they nerfed mobility (once again) and i do have one question at dev team: what should thief be? What does dev team actually invisions thief to be? It is like mesmers should be clone masters yet balance patch would reduce max number of clones to 1 because people get annoyed by the screen clutter or just hate to fight mesmers.

> @"Raizel.1839" said: > Well I like the nerfs, I always hated thief in PvP/WvW so this nerf is welcome for me. If balance would be based only on subjective feeling of the players then we wouldn't have anything to play lol. "I hate thing XY so it should be removed from the world" - every snowflake ever.

> @"epoc.7941" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > PvP community in this game is too small to carry 5 man queues. Unless you want to face same team over and over and over again. In this case you might as well just use customer arena. As far as solo queue goes - once you get to certain rating, all you see are the same ppl in every match, so it is not like you only meet "strangers who don’t care". > > It’s only small BC of the poor support it gets. There’s no allure to going in with randoms to try to get wins and rewards with hopes that the other four players cooperate or are competent. With the choice to play with some friends it would help many who are pushed away especially by toxic players in queue. Options help the community. > If i recall correctly one could queue as team in the past. Guess what. That queue was still dead af. Even pre-HOT pvp community of GW2 was too small. I also would disagree with you as far as support goes - they improved pvp a lot in comparison to the "ol' good times". The problem is, they took too long for it, most people moved to other things. You also forget that this game is pretty old. I don't think it is worth for Anet to invest much money into pvp. I honestly would prefer them to invest the remaining resources into balancing than adding game mode that is maybe used by 25-30 people in the region, at best.

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > How about this...we remove stealth from the game. Thieves can have their evades, Mes the clones, etc. just no more stealth. > > Because, that's what this is about. TC 'mained mesmer for 6 years' most likely because of the ability to shatter bomb from stealth, the massive broken condi's from clones for years, etc. Then mesmer got adjusted / nerfed so moved on to thief...because of stealth and ability to run away. > > Essentially if you are dying to necros and ranger pets you have bigger L2P issues. For one, we'd like a vertical teleport like thief has, which is invaluable in WvW. Mmm, there used to be times in GW2 when most viable thief builds were all about evades and dodges (condi dd d/d and s/d) - community screamed bloody murder so now we are back to stealth builds. I personally would love to have support build on thief so we don't get instantly kicked from zergs for simply playing the class. Maybe then people will also stop complain so much about the class that has nothing else to offer besides being annoying stealthy/evading fly.

PvP community in this game is too small to carry 5 man queues. Unless you want to face same team over and over and over again. In this case you might as well just use customer arena. As far as solo queue goes - once you get to certain rating, all you see are the same ppl in every match, so it is not like you only meet "strangers who don’t care".

They nerfed core thief heavily because of DD mobility using exactly same logic. They don't care. Just live with it.

> @"GreenZap.1352" said: > Hi, > > Is there any way to make S/P work for HoT open world solo? > > I know that they removed EVADE on Sword 3 which sucks. > > Any tips? S/P still has evade, idk where you are getting your info, unless it is a joke post. I use S/P for open world.

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > Regarding daredevil. Adding the 3rd dodge was meaningless, even if it was only 2 Dodges, dash would still be crazy good and a lot of people would pick daredevil just for dash. I am not so sure, tbh. I was always fan of core d/p, tripple dash (hey, decap bot) is only reason why i still pick DD. If dodges were reduced to 2 i might drop DD altogether. Once again though, i am sure they will murder everything thief (and other classes) have to try to force us to buy xpac. The new elite will be OP compared to the rest of the builds for 6-12 months then the nerf bat will be swung again. "Been there, done that". Just don't feed them more ideas if you want this class be somehow playable til next xpac. They are (and never were) interested in balance.

Define "doesn't good damage"? Is it your damage in raids that bothers you or on golem? In raid situation there are a lot of variables that affect damage (be it lack of quickness or boss mechanics etc.) so you can't compare it to golem dps. Yes, you lose a lot of damage if you attack boss from front due to Twin Fangs. Have you tried to use signet basically at the end of bound into staff 2? Staff 2 (at least for me) is the main source of damage, given the bound effect + endurance traits, i would try to combine those 2 the most instead of just draining endurance.

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > Hear me out guys : > > > > Revert Ini cost of Infiltrator's Arrow. > > BUT > > Make it no longer usable to scale up cliff-faces. > > > > :^) > > I honestly think they should have left IA cost the same initiative as it did before this patch, but the range should be reduced to 600 if used while in combat. Not sure if that's even possible with the current code, but I said what I said. How about not nerf core builds that are basically not played because of changes like this? They could have addressed DD, they could have addressed DE but no, of all things they heavily nerfed core build that had barely any mobility on first place. You know some people don't have xpac, some just enjoy playing core and now they get punished for existence of DD? Same goes for engis this patch as well.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Zacchary.6183" said: > > *(Unhindered Combatant Dashes, Speed Runes and Channeled Vigors past you)* > > Nothing personal, kid. > > Vault + Dash too. > Staff will replace SB as mobility tool. > > Sucks to no longer be able to consistently port up cliffs, but good luck catching a Staff DD running away. Anyone tried staff + d/p yet?

@Op they don't care and they never will. If you want balanced pvp i suggest to play different game and stop financially support Anet.

I think the change is great. Now we (thieves) have better excuse not to help out teammates, not to decap, not to +1 due to lack of ini. Just heartseaker through the map, grab popcorn and watch our teammates burn in the condi dumpster fire. Time to lay back and get carried :D I am sure rest of the pvp community will enjoy it as much :D > @"Kondor.2904" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > > > It was a broken skill since launch. > > > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? > > Half of the other specs in the game: >  > Tbh they have done it to thief plenty of times already. Core is hardly playable and got hit really hard this patch as well (for no reason) but nobody will notice since all you can mainly see in pvp is DD and DE. My best assumptions is that all those changes have been (and will be) done to force us to buy next xpac.

Given how IA has relative high chance to fail (THAT they still didn't fix it after all those years), the change is kind of meh :| I mean it is not like they changed the role of thief in pvp (decap bot), just another nerf to mobility for the sake of it. How dare people to play the class how it was meant to be played by devs lol. And here i wanted to spend some money on gems... oh well, guess not. Seems like Steam will be getting all the € this Xmas xD