ZDragon.3046

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Or u could actually throw out some legitimate ideas to help make stealth fit more in line with the game lol

>

> You're asking too much of Burnfall. He's seen too much on the battlefield. He's going to be like that until there's a stealth rework, and probably beyond.

>

In truth though Burnfall's post is pretty relevant, this time.... everything in said that video is pretty accurate even to this day in gw2.

There is no natural detection of any kind vis other games which all have some form of detection or limiting factor be it incoming damage or casting any skill after the fact which breaks the effect. Gw2 lets stealth run a bit more wild than almost every other game that might have a stealth mechanic.

For weakness that would be a direct buff because right now weakness is based on rng

there is a 50% chance of it working super effectively and a 50% chance of it not reducing damage at all.

Your idea would make it more stable which in my opinion would be a direct buff to it.

Im all for less rng in the game tbh

Cant say i agree much with protection nerfs though.

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> Stealthed enemy within 1200 range = yellow exclamation mark in debuff panel

> Stealthed enemy within 400 range = red exclamation mark.

>

> Each debuff has a sound effect as well. Debuffs can stack depending on stealthed enemy count.

Effectively does nothing but add visual bloat to the game. That wont stop a thief from perma stalling near you or what happens where there is more than once instance of stealth which takes priority.

either rework stealth entirely or lean into other methods that effectively have more meaning. Just because you know a thief is close wont stop them from just stalling and waiting for you to burn skill if anything this just encourages you to burn more skill where it might not be effective.

The damage reduction idea i saw in some other post would be more effective especially when people want to stall for long long periods of time.

Ideally if they reduce damage in the right way and eliminate one shot potential thief should be fine. IF stealth is still too insane after the nerfs then nerf it directly and if that still does not solve the problem its time to rework how it works.

> @"Bealis.6023" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I think the active part means less gameplay from traits, like the 300 second cooldown on passive stances for Warrior for example.

>

> Ill need to recheck the traits I had to overlook something C:...300 seconds? :o

>

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

>

> > However still i do get what you mean when it comes to long instances of combat such as fractals etc where some players for sure might be that tatical about when they swap pets and and merge etc. I think this change does need to happen though otherwise soulbeast ends up with more utility than intended in one mode where as it might not matter in the others.

> Its true that i fixated too much on pve:) Possibly such a tradeoff must be same in all modes for the sake of the traits right?

I think that pest will still have value and since fusing now triggers pet swap related traits it might not be so bad depending on how those sync up and work with other traits it might be more fluid but who knows. Obviously it wont make up for an entirely second pet but it might help QoL in some ways overall with trait interactions.

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > They said they would buff it in the global notes. I.e the notes that pertain to PvE.

> >

> > this confused me. doesn't global = all modes, how does global = pve? everyone is saying that. they never said that those notes were specifically for pve either. also those guys don't do pve balance...

> Not only that but pretty much everyone has had the same reductions. Literally it feels like half these salty posts are from people only looking at or considering their own classes(s).

The only bit i dont agree with on this statement is that many other professions not all of them but some of them still have their traits that reduce the cooldowns on their active defenses as far as we know for example

Warriors active balance stance, zerker stance, endure pain got their cooldowns increased how ever the trait last stand while its active is 300s its passive that boost the effect on all stance skills is still very much in the game and will apply to the the active utility skills. so even though the base times increased there is an option to boost them. and on other professions drop the cooldowns back down etc.

(edit made a fix here with my warrior example not sure why i thought cd reduction was a thing here but you know what i mean as an example))

Necro had spectral mastery taken away and the cooldowns on the actives were dropped respectively now the cooldowns are going back up (or in some cases just out right increasing even more for the skills that didnt drop in that patch ((cough... spectral armor)) which is very suspect but also probably an oversight.

This is my only hang up on the spectral skill increases.

Still you aint wrong.

I dis like the corrupting boon spam to be viable meta can we compromise and meet in the middle?

> @"Bealis.6023" said:

> Heloo thx for the input. Iam still a torn about this though:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > How ever in some choices like your example with soulbeast being locked to 1 pet those changes are good as they enforce a sense of thinking and choice making that is more active than passive. You choose which pet you want before you go in which is an active choice and also balances them out a bit more.

> Since theoreticaly yes, you get a sense of planning. But in in-game experience you are usually allready well aware of your 2 pets. Often, when players want to get fast throught a combat scenario, they paradoxically dont bother and stay with one pet either way. It starts to get different when in long fights like metas or fractals. So for some traits to kick in (if you have them), your basically forced to unmerge either way (+to use pets unmerged ability). So in this scenario, which is basically 50% of Soulbeast gameplay, you get the option to change pet to adapt. And players who change it like that always do it actively, not without thinking. So in some sense actually those players that dont think dont have a need for second pet. Might be just my view though :)

>

>

In pve this understandable however in pvp i think having 2 pets on soulbeast is slightly too much people argued that while merged they didnt have a pet at all so that was the trade off but people could easily by enough time to murge fire off any skills then un merge swap pets for both sets of pet actives etc and in some cases for example like smoke scales utility or the plasma gain from the pigs it ends up being a massive benefit for a minor tradeoff when looking at it like that. I personally considered soulbeast to be one of the professions that still lacked a realistic trade off and this more or less forces them to have one be it late to the game so it i can see how players might take it as considerably unfair. Had this change happened in the patch that enforced other trade offs on other professions the impact of it might not have been as bad.

However still i do get what you mean when it comes to long instances of combat such as fractals etc where some players for sure might be that tatical about when they swap pets and and merge etc. I think this change does need to happen though otherwise soulbeast ends up with more utility than intended in one mode where as it might not matter in the others.

This also prevents pet selection from allowing one build chocie to be the be all end all "good against the majority" kind of thing and allows for more direct weaknesses that comes with the perks that soulbeast does offer. I think making it so that one build is only good against 2 or 3 other professions only and not so much for the rest is a good thing. IF a build current handles 5-6 or more professions of the 9 comfortably then it needs more weaknesses. But thats just my point of view. We shouldnt be able to build for every situation or even the majority of situations just a few of them combined on how you like to play.

> @"Bealis.6023" said:

> Hello,

> as upcomming balance patches are going to wrap around an idea of more active gameplay in terms of skills, I would like to know what are your thoughts and/or expectations of how this setup could look like in-game? After going through the patch notes on the skills, I feel like I like the direction but I still dont fully grasp how the skills/builds will prompt players to play more actively. I get a better picture on competitive modes , but pve is a whole new playground.

> From my understanding, some specific builds could benefit from certain level of stagnation, basically being spammy without much thinking. But there are some big hits like removing stunbreaks and stability, or SB pet restriction, which might actually lead players to be more careful and less active in some aspects.

> I know this is a challenging ballance and I really appreciate the effort, I guess we just need to wait for more benefits when all comes rolling.

ITs a good direction that ideally is not going to be a smooth transition especially if anet does not do a few more reworks across traits and skills that were changed just to fit the masses of everyone else.

For example

CC attacs like Headbutt and Executioners Scythe have skill bloat tied into them that does not matter with anet ideal direction but they were changed because the masses changed. Now parts that weight into the skill are still there bloating it that dont really matter.

Another example is with nerfing traits to a point they become too unrealistically situational. No one wants a trait they cant reliably depend on even if its one with a long cooldown which means people go from one passive thing to another passive thing and never look at the one that changed because ideally its a dead trait for 14 minutes and 54 seconds of a potential 15 minute pvp match. A great example is right at the start of the notes with warrior and endure pain, its going to only activate twice per match and only for a few seconds each time.

Increasing the passive cd on Endure pain to 300 seconds will jus push people to take Armored Attack which is ideally just as passive if not more passive than endure pain it just has a lesser effect but its an effect people know they can count on being active. Throughout a match.

Ideally traits like this need to be redesigned to provide a lesser passive but a rare strong active even if the active has a long cd like 300s.

For example people might still use "Last stand" because while its active can only be triggered every 300 seconds at least its always passively going to be semi useful if players opt to run the active stances on their utility bar.

Additionally making global changes with wording that wont fit all game modes is troubling the more relevant example i can think of is with necro in who they wanted to remove stability but also improve their active stunbreaks which is true in pve but they did the opposite in pvp which has some necromancer players pulling their hair out.

The good sides of this direction can be seen though for example

The choice to generally cut damage on the majority of cc and lower overall damage

How ever in some choices like your example with soulbeast being locked to 1 pet those changes are good as they enforce a sense of thinking and choice making that is more active than passive. You choose which pet you want before you go in which is an active choice and also balances them out a bit more.

On some professions the changes do push more active choices and play styles while on others in warriors case it some of the choices do not and only promote more passive choice making.

Also as a necro main i think the majority of necro might not need access to stability so long as everyone elses damage is addressed and allows it to soak damage in a way thats effective and equal to other professions just avoiding the damage. Right now the two styles of play have such a wide gap which makes common necro players feel uneasy about the notes on paper.

If damage comes down in the right way and necro can soak hits for sustain instead of avoiding them (people screaming necro op need to remember we dont have blocks, extra evades, vigor up time, invulns etc.) I think the biggest issue will be the rest of the community adjusting to the idea that necromancer wont be inherently free anymore even if its a pingpong ball and they will not like it and demand it to be nerfed even more.

But if i can have something thats not just boon corrupts that keeps me viable in the meta im happy with it.

If they remove necromancers ability to damage soak when that is their ideal way of increased sustain over just avoiding or blocking the damage like every other profession then we will have a major problem. Which might be liable to happen if enough people complain that they cant kill necros cause too tanky. Basically if necro gets to the way it is right now where the incoming damage from any profession melts its shroud or vastly outperforms its life force gain / shroud making damage soaking no where near as effective as damage evasion we got real big problems.

Now the only exception to the stability rule is reaper. Reaper is designed to be in peoples faces where its generally the most dangerous especially for a light armor profession with no blocks, evasive skill, disengage etc. Reaper does need **"SOME"** stability access possibly a tiny bit more than what they are allowing right now. I think the nerf to infusing terror was a bit over kill but other professions also got some pretty insane "over the top" nerfs that are just as questionable.

The spectral skills i would have been fine with increasing if there was still a trait tied to them that allowed their cooldowns to be reduced back down a bit or effectiveness to be increased. Had "spectral mastery" and or "Last Ghasp" not been removed from their soul reaping line i might agree with the increase to their spectral defenses skills.

Ideally the OP is kind of right to be frustrated as the global notes speak a total 180 of what they did in pvp.

My thoughts is that they could have at least given spectral armor 2 charges as it was the only spectral skill to not recive anything when spectral mastery was removed. ITs cd did not even decrease during that patch and it gained no bonus effects or QoL improvements like spectral walk did. So we lost a passive spectral armor and the active one gained no benefit from losing its respective trait.

I think reaper will be in a good spot still though core necromancer however im not so sure too much is effectively changing especailly with doom no longer being instant for me to be sure about how effective it will be for solo play and jumping into a match. IT might have some tanky build options but i dont know about any damage role options without having a support tied to its leg anymore.

@"James.1065"

Keep your head up and start playing around with non meta builds is the best advice i can give you. Start playing as if the traits are already changed.

For example if you are using foot in the grave currently stop using it.

IF you use one of the amulets being removed from the game stop using it.

Ideally the better you get now with things that are not changing much and not using things that wont be in the game in a month or so the more prepared you will be when the changes hit the game. Then you can unleash your power patch day ;) :+1:

> @"gdubze.6015" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"gdubze.6015" said:

> > > If this game is based on animations and seeing what the enemy is doing, why on earth do you put the damage numbers over the character you are attacking ? Pure genius!

> >

> > Generally you wont be attacking if you dont think its not safe for you to do so. So either you are watching their character for animations of danger to avoid and because you want to be able to avoid you wont be wasting cds and or attacking which locks you into animations where you may not be able to dodge.

> >

> > If you are attacking then you are probably not worried about anything they are going to do as you feel you having the opening to attack.

> >

> > There really is no reason the dps numbers are actually not over bloated like they tend to be inalot of other games. The only time the numbers bother me is when barrier hit points are stacked with normal hit points which can result in a bit of number bloat but generally its fine.

> >

> > At best ask for a option to make damage numbers simpler / smaller in the UI.

>

> Like I told the other people this is not a thread on basic pvp awareness! I dont need you trying to explain your reasons on why you think im doing something. I am saying that the damage numbers obscure the animations when you are in a fight. Specially team fights the screen is so clustered and you have the numbers on top of that also. Critical hits are the worst offenders!

I personally dont agree but it is worth consideration i have played games where dps numbers block everything while i dont feel this way about gw2 im not surprised that someone might its really just a case by case bases. Perhaps an option to turn down the opacity damage numbers and combo field notifications?

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > > > Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).

> > > > > > Now here are the things I really do not understand:

> > > > > > - Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.

> > > > > > - Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.

> > > > > > - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

> > > > > > - Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

> > > > >

> > > > > With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

> > > >

> > > > What you are suggesting is the most uninterractive way of playing one could ever imagine. Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

> > >

> > > I don't find having 15 million stab, on top of 2 health bars, and a high natural health pool, making you tanky by default "interactive" and "fun". Especially after these damage nerfs. You want the best of all worlds. Too bad.

> >

> > They only thing that will be tanky is core necro which will have 0 access to stability(except lich form, which nobody takes ever as elite). Reaper needs the stability to even be able to cast something, considering its long cast times. And if you compare reaper's stability access and duration to other classes it actually pales in comparison to them.

> > And yes I consider getting your character cc locked while you can't do anything about it uninterractive and not fun, you should try it and see how an awfull experience it is, especially while the entire enemy team gets on you, because you are a sitting duck, and you can't even try to escape it.

>

> Well of power also grants a second of stability, so your claim that core necro will have 0 is already false.

1 second though i feel i should step in and say this. 1s of stability is exteremly hard to use defensively its more or less there so that the skill will not easily be interupted on cast. Now why might that be? Its because anet has added several stun breaks to the game that also have cast times which are generally bad. In the past well of power might have been your last or only breakstun up at the time so you use it but also need to evade a very high powered incoming attack or a chain of cc. So what happens is that it will break your stun but because you dodged or got hit with another cc immediately it would go on full cooldown and cause the well to not actually be cast on the ground.

The 1 second stability was a lazy fix to a skill that should technically be instant with 0 cast time. This happened alot more commonly then you might think. Even the chronomancer stun break well is flawed by this design where you can use it to break a stun but need to dodge or get cced resulting in you breaking the stun but not casting the well and so the same thing was done they added a 1s stab to cover the cast time of the well. Trust me that stability is not there for long term or even modest short term defensive purposes. Try to imagine if one of your go to breakstuns had a cast time on it and the cast started after the stun was broken but if you dodged or got stunned agian the skill would fail to activate and go on full cd. I would literally not count this in the line of "necro has stability" ITs more of a bandaid that covers 50% of a design flaw to a stun break skill.

> While traited to Reaper, your shroud skill 3 grants a few stacks of stab. There's another source.

Yes infusing terror this one is legit but also needed as reaper is going to be in melee range 9 times out of 10 if you have access to that skill. Did it need nerfs maybe, maybe not personally ithink this is one of they few they could have left alone.

> As well, while in Reaper, Chilled to the Bone grants 2? stacks of stability.

Also true but does require on hit effect but to be honest i have no complaints about the changes they did here imo chill to the bone now being a 3s stun with lower cd is on par with other aoe elites that stun like jade winds etc.

> While traited with Scourge, you get Stability from Trail of Anguish.

This is 1 stack easily removed tbh Trail of anguish is literally more about the trail and helping you make distance and the break stun itself more than the stability. I would have rather seen the stability removed and the cooldown modified to a lesser extent pushing it to 50s which is the same cd as spectral walk now does not exactly seem fair.

> Lets also mention one of your minions, though not sure if that minion gets the stab, or if the necro itself gets the stab, when you use the command skill for it.

The minion gets it not the caster by the way the last hit of the golem is suppose to hit very hard and do the blow out effect not the knock down effect but that will almost never happen due to its badly designed code in which it pierces through people. Anet baked the best part of the golem charge into the skill in a way where you almost never see it land even in pve.

> There's also Feed From Corruption in Scourge, that allows you to gain the boon you corrupted on the enemy.

This is not a legit self source as boons corrupted from foes can vary widely base on the profession and there is never always a promise that you will get the boons you intend to with corrupts. Truth be told when was the last time you saw a scourge in pvp let alone a scourge in pvp using this trait? At the moment i dont think you will see a scourge unless a firebrand is tied to it with a rope even after this patch i dont think the number of scourges is going to increase by much its still off the mark imo and likey will require a full rework at this point.

>

> Now here's a word from our sponsors, ArenaNet:

> Necromancer has always been designed to be a resilient profession that was light on Stability. Since this update specifically is removing some stability from their traits we made sure to buff their stunbreak skills appropriately in response. Additionally we've fixed a few issues with minion responsiveness and buffed a few of the weaker minion command skills.

> Lets zoom in on that part. LIGHT on stability.

> LIGHT.

>

> Any other questions?

Yeah where is the improvement to the stunbreak skills in the pvp side where they are actually more important? Im not trying to be a butt.... however they did...

Remove spectral mastery some time ago and adjusted the cds and some effects on spectral skills as a QoL thing it also came with the same patch that removed "last ghasp" which was the necromancers passive proc trait that gave spectral armor when hit at or below 50%.

Now they have pretty much reverted cds on spectral skills and strictly limited stability access.

While yes in pve they did improve their stunbreak skills in pve they practically did the opposite in the pvp split. so im not sure how valid that post is when it comes to pvp.

To be honest i get that the direction they want to go with the game and where you are looking at it from but i also get why NecroSummons is super annoyed when looking at the notes on paper because they dont make the most sense. The global post you pulled from does not match the changes they performed in the pvp notes at all.

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > > > > Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).

> > > > > > > Now here are the things I really do not understand:

> > > > > > > - Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.

> > > > > > > - Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.

> > > > > > > - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

> > > > > > > - Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

> > > > >

> > > > > What you are suggesting is the most uninterractive way of playing one could ever imagine. Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

> > > >

> > > > I don't find having 15 million stab, on top of 2 health bars, and a high natural health pool, making you tanky by default "interactive" and "fun". Especially after these damage nerfs. You want the best of all worlds. Too bad.

> > >

> > > They only thing that will be tanky is core necro which will have 0 access to stability(except lich form, which nobody takes ever as elite). Reaper needs the stability to even be able to cast something, considering its long cast times. And if you compare reaper's stability access and duration to other classes it actually pales in comparison to them.

> > > And yes I consider getting your character cc locked while you can't do anything about it uninterractive and not fun, you should try it and see how an awfull experience it is, especially while the entire enemy team gets on you, because you are a sitting duck, and you can't even try to escape it.

> >

> > Core necro is going to require more support to be effective going forward if 2 people jump on it and no one peels for it then its going to die. Which is likely going to happen alot unless you have a firebrand or tempest sitting on your rump the whole time or your teams damage and focus is good enough to kill more of the enemy team in the time it might take a few of them to kill the necromancer.

> >

> > Generally speaking its never fun being the first one to be focused but the way i see it is necro will always be that way until untill they give it something that allows it to slip out of a situation thats not "wurm" like the other professions have or untill they take more away from the other professions making them higher potential targets to go for. Necro is generally easy to go for because people know its generally not going to be able to disengage a fight once it goes in. Either it kills you with the team or it dies its rare that you get a chance to escape as necro where people wont chase you down

> >

> > Keep in mind though

> > - Life force gains are not changing as of yet

> > - CC skills wont be doing much damage so if the majority of the things that hit you are cc only in quick succession it wont be a ton of damage if any damage at all.

> > - Overall damage is going to be lower meaning shroud can do what it was meant to do which is soak damage for sustain right now it fails at doing that because damage is too high shroud melts and you get blown up.

> > - We are finally getting out of the kill quick or be killed meta. This meta does not work well for the design of necromancer having no hard defense so this is a good thing.

> >

> > If you are focused and cc locked its not the end of the world. ITs not going to be fun but if the whole team focuses you and cant kill you in a reasonable time and your team can destory them because they are so dead set on focusing you then do what you can trading one death for 2-3 deaths on the enemy team is actually a better outcome a match overall which would mean you played your role effectively.

> >

> > Short term/ in the moment and or perhaps roaming in wvw though yes it might feel pretty crappy. :C

>

> Every thing you say, I already know since I play necro, and yes roaming on necro will now be even worse. Still the need to be baby sit because Anet doesn't/can't understand how to improve necro, while keeping it in check, leaves me baffled. This patch will nerf necromancer in every aspect dmg, corruption, breakstuns and stability, and the last 2 were not deserved at all in my opinion.

I think the nerf to spectrals was a bit much considering they took spectral mastery some months back with the idea of making the skills better at their baseline but are now almost undoing that with this patch which is likely a design flaw they didnt consider.

Foot in the grave was a trait players had been either asking to be replaced or outright buffed due to its age and well "be-careful what you wish for?" But in all honestly the trait they added should have been included in necro's kit some place. IS this spot perfect for it... probably not but it needs to be there for sure. I think this trait alone if people opt to use it will be a big game changer on how people start matches as core and reaper seeing as how right now that is the necromancers weakest moment in a match having to start with 0% life force.

I think its less on improving necro and more so on fixing the majority of everyone else who is overperforming while necro was held to "some kind" of standard while the others were not.

There is a reason necro over 2 elite specs only mostly gained self might, no extra evasion, no blocks, not much more mobility or stability.

I personally would have rather seen foot in the grave buffed sure but Eternal Life aint a bad option on paper.

> @"gdubze.6015" said:

> If this game is based on animations and seeing what the enemy is doing, why on earth do you put the damage numbers over the character you are attacking ? Pure genius!

Generally you wont be attacking if you dont think its not safe for you to do so. So either you are watching their character for animations of danger to avoid and because you want to be able to avoid you wont be wasting cds and or attacking which locks you into animations where you may not be able to dodge.

If you are attacking then you are probably not worried about anything they are going to do as you feel you having the opening to attack.

There really is no reason the dps numbers are actually not over bloated like they tend to be inalot of other games. The only time the numbers bother me is when barrier hit points are stacked with normal hit points which can result in a bit of number bloat but generally its fine.

At best ask for a option to make damage numbers simpler / smaller in the UI.

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > > Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).

> > > > > Now here are the things I really do not understand:

> > > > > - Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.

> > > > > - Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.

> > > > > - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

> > > > > - Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

> > > > >

> > > > > You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

> > > >

> > > > With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

> > >

> > > What you are suggesting is the most uninterractive way of playing one could ever imagine. Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

> >

> > I don't find having 15 million stab, on top of 2 health bars, and a high natural health pool, making you tanky by default "interactive" and "fun". Especially after these damage nerfs. You want the best of all worlds. Too bad.

>

> They only thing that will be tanky is core necro which will have 0 access to stability(except lich form, which nobody takes ever as elite). Reaper needs the stability to even be able to cast something, considering its long cast times. And if you compare reaper's stability access and duration to other classes it actually pales in comparison to them.

> And yes I consider getting your character cc locked while you can't do anything about it uninterractive and not fun, you should try it and see how an awfull experience it is, especially while the entire enemy team gets on you, because you are a sitting duck, and you can't even try to escape it.

Core necro is going to require more support to be effective going forward if 2 people jump on it and no one peels for it then its going to die. Which is likely going to happen alot unless you have a firebrand or tempest sitting on your rump the whole time or your teams damage and focus is good enough to kill more of the enemy team in the time it might take a few of them to kill the necromancer.

Generally speaking its never fun being the first one to be focused but the way i see it is necro will always be that way until untill they give it something that allows it to slip out of a situation thats not "wurm" like the other professions have or untill they take more away from the other professions making them higher potential targets to go for. Necro is generally easy to go for because people know its generally not going to be able to disengage a fight once it goes in. Either it kills you with the team or it dies its rare that you get a chance to escape as necro where people wont chase you down

Keep in mind though

- Life force gains are not changing as of yet

- CC skills wont be doing much damage so if the majority of the things that hit you are cc only in quick succession it wont be a ton of damage if any damage at all.

- Overall damage is going to be lower meaning shroud can do what it was meant to do which is soak damage for sustain right now it fails at doing that because damage is too high shroud melts and you get blown up.

- We are finally getting out of the kill quick or be killed meta. This meta does not work well for the design of necromancer having no hard defense so this is a good thing.

If you are focused and cc locked its not the end of the world. ITs not going to be fun but if the whole team focuses you and cant kill you in a reasonable time and your team can destory them because they are so dead set on focusing you then do what you can trading one death for 2-3 deaths on the enemy team is actually a better outcome a match overall which would mean you played your role effectively.

Short term/ in the moment and or perhaps roaming in wvw though yes it might feel pretty crappy. :C

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > All boon removal actually do already do that. Theyve done that for a long time. The only power-based ones that dont get rid of Aegis are the ones that are unblockable anyway. Condi ones remove Resistance.

>

> ~~Are...you sure?~~

>

> I stand corrected apparently? I'll check on that.

I have serious doubts about that.

It is true the ones that dont prioritize aegis are usually unblockable but only because early on there was likely some inconsistency with them ripping aegis or the effect just blocking a skill entirely which warranted the need for the skills to be unblockable. For other on hit effects (which might remove boons) its unclear if the boon removal is applied before the hit which would remove the aegis or if the hit is applied first which would result in you seeing the text "Blocked" text appear instead of a damage number.

Boon removal priority is a very touchy subject because most sources of info based the different applications of it are usually inconsistent.

You might say one thing, another player says other wise, a third player disagrees with both of the first two. Until devs make it clear cut how the interactions work its not safe to say that every type of boon removal works the same way I'm a firm believer in the idea that they dont. Especially boon removal that running on core game code vs boon removal that was added after HoT / PoF

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Just suggesting something here, it's very different and people may not like it.

>

> How bout Necros doing a whole "Host for demons" thingy and store their Minions inside their Shroud lol.

> When Necros turn on their Shroud, these Minions just spill out and start attacking enemies.

>

> The utility side of the Shroud can be used to command Attack, and Retreat.

>

> When combat is over, the Minions will return to the Shroud until the next time the player is in Combat and activates Shroud.

>

> And a funny special interaction with Scourge would be, the Sand Shades can be used as Pseudo portals to call out yur Minions from.

> So say, yu cast Shade 1 on an enemy, yur Minions start spilling out from that target area and attacking stuff.

This might have made for a great elite spec if AI a bit stronger.

Even I kind of wish the scourge shades were more like the Warlock's Thrall in Blade and Soul.

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

>

> Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

>

> nope, its being killed out of stealth

I think i agree with this only if its a 1 tap though.

At least if you lose control you can build skills that give some resistance against that to allow you to play.

IF you get 1 tapped from stealth you dont even get to play... not getting to play = 0 fun

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).

> > > > Now here are the things I really do not understand:

> > > > - Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.

> > > > - Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.

> > > > - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

> > > > - Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

> > > >

> > > > You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

> > >

> > > With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

> >

> > What you are suggesting is the most uninterractive way of playing one could ever imagine. Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

>

> I don't find having 15 million stab, on top of 2 health bars, and a high natural health pool, making you tanky by default "interactive" and "fun". Especially after these damage nerfs. You want the best of all worlds. Too bad.

To be fair necro never had that much stab.

I feel like the nerf to reapers stability was a bit unnecessary as it is a melee elite spec on a light armor profession whos core design is based on keep away ideally there needs to be a bit of padding on going into melee range but its whatever.

To be honest as a long term necro player it never had the best of all worlds despite what people think.

Its easy to learn its offensive aspects but its defensive aspects are hard to master.

With low mobility, low stability, no hard defenses, and the power creep that every other profession has gained. Necromancer was one of the more balanced professions (especially if you ignore the bugged scourge time periods) Almost every other profession in the game has a play style that can easily shutdown a necromancer with ele being the weakest due to chill screwing them and engi being the second weakest because its so dependent on boons.

Currently there is no necromancer build that allows you to combat a large portion of other builds or professions in the game like you can find on warrior, holo, ranger, etc.

If you opt for damage your defensive power drops significantly. Even with the shroud bar damage soaking is a far cry from damage blocking or evasion which is why people say necromancer needs more! ITs only option is damage soaking and thats not viably equal in terms of sustain to damage blocking/evasion in the power crept meta.

If you opt for defensive boost then your damage output drops considerably and you lack the power to kill even some of the most glass cannon builds in the game the flip side is that, in a majority of these cases, the glass cannons still kill you as fast as they would another glass cannon which makes no sense considering you gave up considerable offensive pressure for improved defenses.

The necromancer depends on soft conditions and damage soaking as pretty much all of its defense both of which have been indirectly and in some cases directly nerfed over a long span of time. Indirectly through power creep and directly through the boost to condition cleanses/condition immunities among other professions. Chill use to keep foes at bay from even a core necromancer but now everything can just run/leap/blink at you while ignoring the chill/cripple effects. Necromancer has been held to its core values for both its elites unlike so many others.

Now are necromancers naturally more tanky? Yes

Was it a wise choice to reduce their stability even more? Probably not but it might not be as bad as we think? IF damage drops are proper then damage soaking could become more viable for the necromancers putting it on a much closer effectiveness to avoiding / blocking damage which i would be ok with.

Im fine with losing damage so long as everyone else lost just as much damage or in some cases moderately more damage as they hit considerably harder than necro did.

Im fine with have less cc resistance so long as i can soak hits without instantly getting erased rather than avoid them as that is designed how shroud and necromancer is suppose to be played which is why it has no blocks, extra evades, direct vigor access, etc. currently the gap between soaking damage for defense and just avoiding damage is far too big. ITs easy to see why many necromancer players dislike the changes.

My thoughts on doom not being instant is that core will be less effective in solo play situations especially if it gets caught out alone cause it now has no break stun on shroud access and will have no way to get someone off it when they are too close.

The way they wrote it out im not sure if doom can still be used while under cc and if it just has a delay before it hits or if it cant be used at all while under cc.

If its the second option then im going to enjoy forcing dodges by spam canceling it which people might find even more frustrating than the instant one lol.

As of right now life force generation was not touched though so necro might be fine even if its pingpong ball, if anything it might better than it is now not because of buffs but because overall game damage is lower letting its defensive style of play shine brighter than it has in a long time. This will be what makes people call necro op. Lets see if this will be the one time necro has something viable that is allowed to stay thats not boon corruption.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> Should I be rolling on the floor after your comments ?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thats your choice

> >Mesmer = boon boost ( generally mesmers are known for having pretty wide boon table so i can see why they get something like plasma from them)

> Since the core times they had plasma and mesmer wasnt boonmonster (spoiler for uninformed - it was chrono), if there is boonmonstermachine its guardian since CORE days.

Ive seen the boons mesmers can have when using core and mirage so yeah.... no its not just chrono their boon tables are pretty wide. Almost no one plays chrono

> None of the stolen bundles shuts down the class completely and make it insane hard to fight back or even close to impossible. You said the most noticable effects on the budles they steal but this "crazy good" throw gank/rangers tree/ice shard stab.

Fear is a cc can be used twice against necro a class with limited stability ontop of other thief skills its easy to shut down a necro when played properly

The throwable skill from rev can easily be used to shut a rev down as it deals high damage and applies one of the strongest soft conditions in the game.

Chill spike massively cripples ele and their ability to element swap (even it takes a bit more skill to land)

Riddle me this??? **Why should mesmers be any different???**

Why are you complaining about the one profession that counters mesmer harder than the others when almost every profession has something if not multiple things that counter them.

> I dont want to deal with such biased and hateful person against the mes and be like "yes, its OP but its good that mesmer automatically deleted when thief is there*.

But you are being biased and hateful against thief for literally 1 skill that they can only obtain from mesmer.

> > i can **almost always** evade it **if i can see** the smoke effect

> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess thats your own personal problem then. IF i can dodge it on necro you can dodge it on mirage or mesmer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You have considerably more evasive options than I would so i mean either you are not as good as you think you are or you are just as baised if not more baised. Though your attempts to troll are amusing :-1:

> >Its not identical though. even in past applications of the skill.

> >Lets also not forget that the chrono version could be triggered without disables by simply landing critical hits

> You are not competent to give any answers regards question I'v asked, you simply dont even know the traits :joy: :joy: :joy:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Are you sure about that?

> Dont expect a response from me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thats fine

I expect you to continue to get erased by thieves cause you dont want the game to be fair.

Good day Odik! :D

> @"Flumek.9043" said:

> As a necro,

> which is 100% forced into this rune to compete,

>

> id be happy if they removed it, but they need to nerf some short CD leaps and ports ASAP.

> Leaps ignoring chill and other in combat mobility is just too high.

>

If they reverted the change to make chill and cripple effect leaps and gap closing skills i would be fine with the removal of speed runes until that happens though cant really agree personally. That change long ago was one of the worst changes made that hurt necromancer more than any other profession in the game. imo.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358"

> > > Got some questions...

> > > Traits that boost power/precision/ferocity ... why they are not getting nerfed as well?

> >

> > This is a good question but its possibly one of those things where if they do it to 1 profession expect it to be done to every profession so i think this one is more of a careful what you ask for kind of question.

> You are not that kind of a person from who I want to see answers.. fine. Yes for everyone, otherwise why would I even ask ?

> > > **Thief & Bundle.**

> > > What will happen to CONSUME PLASMA? It will be OP-overloaded as hell? Because couldnt find any changes on it. Even being interrupted he doesnt lose it and unpunished, how did it pass?

> >

> > Also a good question so long as boon duration drops a bit on it i think it would be fine though. How ever we have to remember its not something a thief will get all the time only if they can successfuly steal from a mesmer which is likely why it got a pass there is a 1/9 chance of being able to even steal this in a match if the match has no mesmer you wont ever get the bundle.

> Its gives insane amount of boons, all boons in the game. And not like mesmer suffer enough from all kind of nerfs, 2 elite specs basically about to get deleted and dusted forever, proper balance changes are too hard for anet and this new dev, astonishing.

> Instant steal on ~20s from 1200 range no LoS req its hard to land ? Pardon me, what ? Especially with their stealth access and all kinds of teleports? I shouldnt want to delete my main just because there is a thief in the game, you know ?

To be honest with you it is part of their unique class mechanic it needs to be good enough for them to want to use it. Im a necro main and they steal a stronger fear than we have en our entire whole base kit so i mean what do you want them to do. As i said boon duration on it could be shaved maybe abit but dont expect it to be nerfed to the point that thieves wont want to steal from you over say a warrior or a guardian. Its just how it is i personally dont have an issue with plasma on thief cause there is only one way for them to get it. ITs only when a profession can gain access to plasma at any time in any match up is it really a problem hints plasma gain on boon beast being a big issue where as you see considerably less complaints about it with thief usually (no bias intentions) from a mesmer. Its how it is though. Thief usually steals a stronger version of something from each profession i dont see why mesmer should be any different

Necro = stronger fear

Warrior = spin which reflects projectiles (base warrior skill does not do this)

Rev = High damage slow projectile (revs dont have access to this unless downed and it does not do anywhere near the damage)

Mesmer = boon boost ( generally mesmers are known for having pretty wide boon table so i can see why they get something like plasma from them)

Generally though i think its not that big of a deal. IF thief could just snatch plasma at any time in any match up i would totally agree with you but because its only in the case of snatching it from a mesmer i do not.

> > > Binding shadow - can you remove the immobilize, so this skill wouldnt need a breakstun and cleanse(at the same time) to get out of it ?

> >

> > I feel like it just needs to reveal on cast so it cant pop you out of stealth. If you see it coming you can almost always evade this. Only when they use it from stealth is it ever really a problem imo.

> And clear animation when its about to hit you too.

There normally is a clear animation on when its going to hit you if its used when the deadeye is not in stealth, its not hard to evade actually i can almost always evade it if i can see the smoke effect. Only when its done from stealth do you not see the black/red mist (shadows) coming at you meaning it has no tell Forcing reveal at the start of the cast would fix this issue.

> > > **Elementalist.**

> > > Lightning rod turns every CC into DMG spike with a weakness on it, no icd. I'd like to remind that power block (on mesmer) has 3s icd, cant crit and procs on interrupt . **We had a trait with exact the same functionality - "lost time" on chrono before and it did half of LROD damage, it was deleted entirely**. Disable the crits at least, may be?

> >

> > This is questionable. Mind that power-block cant crit but it does basically reset a cooldown if it interrupts a person during a cast which depending on what skill is interrupted can be more powerful than just out right damage. Each skill kind of has their own niche. At best i would say dont nerf lightning rods damage anymore just making it only proc on interrupting and not just any disable would bring it more in line with powerblock.

> There is nothing questionable, genius. Its just an example what happened to nerf one skill that wasnt a problem or meta or whatever. **And specially brought an example of 100% identical trait** that chrono had once (with twice less damage and pretty much no damage if it doesnt crit) and it was removed entirely, for you I bolded text that you didnt bother to read, so do it again.

Its not identical though. even in past applications of the skill.

One applied weakness while the other applied slow both of which are considerably different conditions with different effects.

Lets also not forget that the chrono version could be triggered without disables by simply landing critical hits which lead to perma slow which is likely why it was removed.

Weakness vs Slow

Only on disables vs on disables or after landing a few critical hits

I would honestly have to say its not the same experince Ive played air lightning rod tempest and perma slow chrono back when that trait was like that so i have some experience with both. Not 100% identical.

Similar in some aspects but not identical.

You could literally gs auto a few times and trigger multiple instances of lost time where as lightning rod has a pretty finite number of times you can trigger it base on the cd's of your weapon cc skills. In other words Lightning rod has much more counter-play than lost time did and lost time had a much stronger soft condition than lightning rod did.

I still dont see a reason to nerf lightning rod anymore its already getting its weakness cut back as of right now the biggest danger will be simply not slapping the ele while they have shocking aura active as thats where most surprise activations of lightning rod will come from. Not many people have the skill to play d/d weaver with air magic and utilize the full potential of the cc in d/d weavers kit sooooo..... outside of tempest perhaps you wont see a ton of lightning rod play unless people go back to core ele.

> > > **Engineer.**

> > > AED (engi heal) escaped the nerfs?

> > Its basically some what like defiant stance/hearld heal not really sure it needs to be touched.

> Except when they trait gadgets its lasts 8 seconds, either you proc it or 8 seconds getting beaten by them (while skill getting recharged background).

> Also, may be you dont know, AED removes all conditions (damaging ones? or all? cba to go to wiki) but defiant stance/glint heal do doesnt and doesnt lasts 8 seconds.

So like i said its similar to defiant stance or herald heal. Most engi's who use this that ive fought either they wait till the last second to use it or they pop it too early and i can just walk way from them. Generally its not common though healing turret is still the go to at the moment and if AED becomes the standard they are trading up front healing early on in the fight for a super late activation. AED by design is not a heal you want to activate early its similar to defiant stance but lacks the freedom of it as a warrior or hearld may choose to pop their heals early to keep them topped off AED will not do this. I think the skill has enough weight in the right areas to be considered balanced for now and if it gets out of hand then they can go back and change it.

> > > **Warrior.**

> > > Also want to remind that "Attacker's Insight" is an overloaded trait, aside REFRESHING warrior's burst skill it does give a stat boost (which is super easy to get and keep) 225 power and 225 ferocity (450 overall), thats waaaaay too much.

> >

> > This is more so one of those things that if you change it the other 8 professions also need to receive more stat nerfs. Its the careful what you wish for situation imo. I want to think they purposely left stat increasing traits alone because of the removal of some of the amulets and the overall drop to scaling power hits across the board ontop of the fact that most cc wont do damage its a lot of damage removed from the game so removing stats like these might remove way more damage than intended as they might already be riding a fine line between removing too much dps across the board.

> I dont remember any trait, especially minor, that was bloated as this trait. Reset bursts skills AND give 450 stats bonus. Feel free to bring an examples that expose similar traits, I dare you. (Part about GS F1 is ommited? hue)

It is a grandmaster minor though its not an adept minor or anything so it can have some meat to it i think. ITs also still a warrior it has to be within melee range to ever get any of these stacks for the most part in the current meta i dont think that will change too much after the fact unless the rifle rework turns out to be better than expected

At best i think they could make it slightly less passive and let it only grant stacks on disables and not boon removals as boon removals is just a thing thats going to happen as the spellbreaker jumps at you and they already have another minor that removes boons when they land a disable so its possibly just stacking too fast via passive nature. I dont have an other issues with the trait though really. The stat bonuses are fine and the reset only triggers on full counter hits which is not too bad as it requires some work on the warriors part its not just a pure passive thing.

Yes i did ommit the GS f1 part but if you are curious on my thoughts as to why i did its below.

GS F1 imo is probably not going to be an issue now that might has been curbed down massively. Its damage was also reduced a bit so im willing to wait and see. A lot of warriors lethal damage comes from their perma 20+ might stacks and that likely wont exists going forward which will see their damage take a massive hit.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Cal Cohen.2358"

> Got some questions...

> Traits that boost power/precision/ferocity ... why they are not getting nerfed as well?

This is a good question but its possibly one of those things where if they do it to 1 profession expect it to be done to every profession so i think this one is more of a careful what you ask for kind of question.

> **Thief & Bundle.**

> What will happen to CONSUME PLASMA? It will be OP-overloaded as hell? Because couldnt find any changes on it. Even being interrupted he doesnt lose it and unpunished, how did it pass?

Also a good question so long as boon duration drops a bit on it i think it would be fine though. How ever we have to remember its not something a thief will get all the time only if they can successfuly steal from a mesmer which is likely why it got a pass there is a 1/9 chance of being able to even steal this in a match if the match has no mesmer you wont ever get the bundle.

> Binding shadow - can you remove the immobilize, so this skill wouldnt need a breakstun and cleanse(at the same time) to get out of it ?

I feel like it just needs to reveal on cast so it cant pop you out of stealth. If you see it coming you can almost always evade this. Only when they use it from stealth is it ever really a problem imo.

> **Elementalist.**

> Lightning rod turns every CC into DMG spike with a weakness on it, no icd. I'd like to remind that power block (on mesmer) has 3s icd, cant crit and procs on interrupt . We had a trait with exact the same functionality - "lost time" on chrono before and it did half of LROD damage, it was deleted entirely. Disable the crits at least, may be?

This is questionable. Mind that power-block cant crit but it does basically reset a cooldown if it interrupts a person during a cast which depending on what skill is interrupted can be more powerful than just out right damage. Each skill kind of has their own niche. At best i would say dont nerf lightning rods damage anymore just making it only proc on interrupting and not just any disable would bring it more in line with powerblock.

> **Engineer.**

> AED (engi heal) escaped the nerfs?

Its basically some what like defiant stance/hearld heal not really sure it needs to be touched.

> **Warrior.**

> Also want to remind that "Attacker's Insight" is an overloaded trait, aside REFRESHING warrior's burst skill it does give a stat boost (which is super easy to get and keep) 225 power and 225 ferocity (450 overall), thats waaaaay too much.

This is more so one of those things that if you change it the other 8 professions also need to receive more stat nerfs. Its the careful what you wish for situation imo. I want to think they purposely left stat increasing traits alone because of the removal of some of the amulets and the overall drop to scaling power hits across the board ontop of the fact that most cc wont do damage its a lot of damage removed from the game so removing stats like these might remove way more damage than intended as they might already be riding a fine line between removing too much dps across the board.

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" @"viquing.8254" @"ZDragon.3046"

>

> Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance. For reasons unknown, good suggestions have rarely been implemented, in favor of nerfing around the root issues, leaving traitlines in tatters, introducing clunky mechanics, and leaving but a few playable builds. If it happens, this proposed endurance nerf may be the final nail in the coffin for the class of casual 50%+ nerfs. That may be music to some peoples' ears, but I do hope I'm wrong.

I mean i know the feeling considering scourge is not viable due to wvw changes back when things were still tied together. To be clear i dont dislike it to the point i want it to not exist. I can tolerate mirages even though i dont ever light fighting them but i cant tolerate when something is bluntly imbalanced past a certain point. My call out to the old CI mirage was more of a reference to one particular point in time that is easy for anyone who has played in that past year to recall if anything.

But YOU ARE NOT WRONG to vent your own frustration here from that perspective.

Balance is just so rough to nail and players who have god complex (not everyone obviously) while playing questionably super oppressive builds dont help decrease peoples frustration for an elite or build any profession might use which can quickly lead to a "Delete this class" thread and we have seen more last and going into this year than ever before @_@.

Moving back to the mirage issue that so many people are concerned about.

I think that anet however might possibly be going super strict on it because of how much it was used and sheer number of complaints thats come up about it over the past year along with the general subject of people hating on "Evasive skills or traits that do damage" which was noted to be one of their biggest things they would be looking into.

Lowering the endurance cap might not be the wrong way to go in theory, but by how much? 50 might actually be too much. Perhaps maybe even letting them keep 100 endurance and just making evasive activations cost slight more than 50 points based on clones up at the time. I think there is room for rebalancing IH other than just shaving 50 points especially if people really do think that removing 50 points will erase the elite completely how ever now is the time to figure out how to rebalance it so that its a bit more fair for the power it provides.

Anet has a bad history of making questionable choices with traits across several professions even right now with the removal of say foot in the grave & spectral mastery some time ago for example in necromancers case combined with the fact that the cooldowns on spectral defenses are increasing with no options to reduce them its got me like ???.

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> If you want to pull a l2p discussion here we go but it's not me who will start it.

**Hard Pass** Viquing

Im not doing this with you.

- 1 i dont have the time for it

- 2 this is not the place for it

- 3 back and forth argument (specifically with you) give me headaches

- 4 you wont agree with me and i wont agree with you regardless of what i type.

Ive already said i think the change is pretty unfair but without a doubt it could be still technically going in the right direction considered.

There is an old saying...

If you throw a rock into a pack of wolves the one that howls in the one you hit.

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"Acelidon.1358" said:

> > > Based on your response to their response, I can tell you're probably a player that was carried by how broken ranger and gazelle was.

> > > Back to silver with you boi.

> >

> > I play warrior, ranger and necro with a focus on warrior, and I use smokescale and sparrow on ranger so youre wrong on both counts, sorry to disappoint :( try reading what the conversation is about before jumping in spouting nonsense

> >

> >

>

> Warrior, Ranger, and Necro, all classes that are extremely potent in this meta. Thanks for proving my point.

> Next.

Ghos i would like to point out that necro is only potent because you have people running around dripping with perma boon ;)

Core is the only option which has strong boon hate that can consistently be used going in solo without a buddy too. so......

No doubt necro will be strong post these on paper patch notes and i think thats something people will have a hard time getting use to is it actually living up to its durable name as damage soaking becomes more viable with damage evasion or damage blocking which it has 0 access too. At least necro will have less boon corrupt while others also have less perma boon.

My prediction is that after the patch necro will be less effective with boon corruption due to boons being not only shorter in duration but in lesser amounts and boon corruption also being toned down across the board. But they will be tougher than people are use to using shroud to soak damage while others still use blocks / evades as part of their sustain. The reduction in outgoing damage and in some cases removal of damage on cc will allow shroud to work as its intended sustain mechanic. Rather than people melting it like a hot knife through butter.