ZDragon.3046
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> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > What do you guys think about this?
> > >
> > > The res mechanic already heavily favors the side with more numbers. From my perspective, downstate and rallying are exactly the same. There have been plenty of winnable fights (both outnumbered and even) if the downed enemies my team or I get weren't constantly getting rallied.
> >
> > 1. I dont agree with this statement because its not entirely true. The side with fewer numbers can res multiple times should the side with higher numbers have people who go down or die more easily / often so i feel like this statement is a bit subjective.
> > >
> > > It also heavily enforces the notion in ranked that the side with the worst PUGs lose. If your teammates feed in every fight, there's simply nothing/very little you can do to take back control of the map if they die too quickly to regain any footing.
> >
> > 2. Learning is a part of the process once again though im not so sure about this statement if your team is going down cause your comp is not as good as the enemy teams it does not mean your teammates are purpose feeding some times you are just mechanically out matched and need to try a different strategy but not everyone catches onto the idea that there might be another option unless someone tells them to try something different.
> >
> > >
> > > Now, if it's possible for Anet to test a sPvP season with no downstate (as long as they remove berserker/assassin amulet and tune down stacking damage modifiers that make oneshot builds possible PRIOR to starting the season), this is something I'd be willing and interested to play in. Then, scenarios such as 2v2s where I down an enemy and they down my teammate become winnable even _after_ another enemy rotates in to rez/stomp.
> >
> > 3. condition builds become super meta... imagine having condis throwing on you and instead of getting a second chance with down state you just die instantly feeels bad man.
> > 4. imo Zerker and assassin ammy shouldn't be options in spvp in general. This also changes nothing with your previous statements techncially speaking the side with the better team or higher numbers in a fight will still heavily favor that side.
> >
> > >
> > > Furthermore, I think it might be worth preventing teammates from rezzing until combat ends as well. These changes would make fights more about who is more skilled as opposed to who has the numbers advantage.
> >
> > 5. It wont though it will still be the same. Dont be fooled into the idea that this changes much.
> >
> > >
> > > Anyways, that's just something I was thinking about from the no downstate WvW. A lot of people loved it, I have a feeling the same would apply for sPvP. Also, I feel like the combat would be a lot cleaner and easier to watch since people aren't constantly going up and down.
> >
> > 6. I wouldnt mind no down state events or some maps having no down state like if team death or other game modes were supported but in the standard capture and hold i dont really see the point.
> >
>
> 1. Um... if you have to add a condition to make a statement true, it's probably because it isn't true to begin with. Rezzing _heavily_ favors the side with more numbers, period. Just because the side with less numbers _can_ potentially rez more often is irrelevant because I could counter with: the side with more numbers _can_ potentially rez more often than the side with less. If you just look at how the rez mechanic works, the side with more players will ALWAYS have an advantage. There are no exceptions to this, currently.
But you added a condition to make your statement true. Thats why i said it was subjective to start with.
Infact one could say that the side with the numbers advantage period (regardless if downstate is included or not) has the advantage so whats the point of even bothering to make this claim when the side with the numbers advantage has the advantage before down state would even be applied. like what.... sorry but no... you were already at the disadvantage to start with removing downstate wont change that.
> 2. The problem is... there's no way to win a match if your PUGs are mechanically out-matched. You, as a single player, _cannot_ carry a game alone if your PUGs are completely incompetent. There are no "different strategies" you could try when Conquest revolves around winning fights/snowballing/pushing your advantage with good rotations.
That depends if you can win smaller fights2v2 or 3v3 etc but not and 4v4 or 5v5 match ups then obviously then the obvious solution would be to try and force the enemy team to split up and take the advantage that way. Not every team comp thats good in bigger fights is just as good when you split them up into smaller fights.
There are different strategies depending on the map, your team and its comp, and their team and its comp. If you only see things as one line and one line own where "well they have x and y gg cant win" then you shouldnt be in pvp to start with. Conquest and anet do not often support different strats but its up to you to take the risk on trying them. IF plan A is not working and is failing over and over again why do you keep trying plan A. Thats common sense that you try something else.
> 3. No, condition builds wouldn't become any more meta than power builds would. In fact, you'd have more time to react and save yourself vs. burst conditions builds than you would against burst power builds. Imagine being at 7k HP and having to choose between getting hit by a Mirage's condi bomb or a Warrior's Eviscerate. Which one would you pick? In this scenario, you'd die faster from the Eviscerate.
I dont think it matters you are not in the advatnage here if i have to chose between one of them but cant opt to avoid both then it does not matter you are still dead. Leading back to my first comment .... it dont matter cause the advantage here was already lost before we would even get to a down state.
> 5. It will change a lot. Currently, it doesn't matter how many people you down, a single support Firebrand rotating in to rez means you've lost that fight. It's almost impossible to outcleave that build as a single player. Preventing them from rezzing and instead forcing them to support their allies that are still _alive_ would result in a completely different dynamic and would help reduce the impact builds like Firebrand/pre-nerf Blood Scourge have on the match. It's no wonder builds that have had the ability to _consistently_ guarantee (or almost guarantee) rezzes have been _consistently_ meta.
Then that means firebrand is over-performing obviously which we all know to be true. Thats not a down state problem thats a firebrand problem.
In the case of scourge (why is the scourge alive even when you know it should be the first target) if your team opted to kill other targets first thats a your team problem.
IF a firebrand is with the scourge then we have already confirmed thats a firebrand problem.
Do not think that its fair to say no down stat should be a thing just because a firebrand always comes alone and ruins your attempts to finish off a player. Thats directly calling out that the problem is a firebrand issue.
If anything take the creative approach and ask for more skills that can directly finish off players The game imo needs more skills like this considering most people dont commit to using the "stomp" action anymore (unless mirage) and would rather just cleave a downed player to death because its faster and you can ideally ignore the interrupt from the downed player.
> 6. These changes would help slow down the pace of the game. It would give individual players a much easier time winning matches _if_ they play well. It would also reduce the snowball effect derived from the highly mobile + high damage meta builds.
If anything it would speed up the game players die faster, teams get more points per kill. Speeds up snowball effect via the previous 2 statements pluse the fact that people cant delay an enemy from de capping or capping a point by being in down state on that point as they die.
Lastly this is a team game mode not a individual player game mode. While i would love to see other supported game modes you have to accept this as a fact. You cant always carry your team deal with it. there are 9 reasons why you cant individually decide the outcome of a match and each of them is a player in the match with you.
If you want individual wins to satisfy yourself ask anet for a 1v1 mode or play 2v2 etc.
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> @"Aaron Forestman.4758" said:
> I'd be for a season without the downed state. Reviving is seriously disproportionate to damage, so even a burst build can have a lot of trouble securing a kill when the enemy team has a support or two that just keeps reviving people.
Wouldnt the better solution be to implement more skills that finish off foes in downstate though?
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I have not touched it in a long time. imo it was an ok game mode its a nice mix up to the standard conquest because different objectives for once which was the one thing i liked about it.
Conquest gets a bit dull with the capture 3 points and hold them with a minor secondary objective on which half the maps the secondary objectives are totally ignored.
Overall its a cool gamemode just lacks population and reasoning for me to really want to play it again. Remember when we had out right team deathmatch..... that was kinda fun too but people stopped playing i guess people really like holding capture points.
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> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> What do you guys think about this?
>
> The res mechanic already heavily favors the side with more numbers. From my perspective, downstate and rallying are exactly the same. There have been plenty of winnable fights (both outnumbered and even) if the downed enemies my team or I get weren't constantly getting rallied.
I dont agree with this statement because its not entirely true. The side with fewer numbers can res multiple times should the side with higher numbers have people who go down or die more easily / often so i feel like this statement is a bit subjective.
>
> It also heavily enforces the notion in ranked that the side with the worst PUGs lose. If your teammates feed in every fight, there's simply nothing/very little you can do to take back control of the map if they die too quickly to regain any footing.
Learning is a part of the process once again though im not so sure about this statement if your team is going down cause your comp is not as good as the enemy teams it does not mean your teammates are purpose feeding some times you are just mechanically out matched and need to try a different strategy but not everyone catches onto the idea that there might be another option unless someone tells them to try something different.
>
> Now, if it's possible for Anet to test a sPvP season with no downstate (as long as they remove berserker/assassin amulet and tune down stacking damage modifiers that make oneshot builds possible PRIOR to starting the season), this is something I'd be willing and interested to play in. Then, scenarios such as 2v2s where I down an enemy and they down my teammate become winnable even _after_ another enemy rotates in to rez/stomp.
condition builds become super meta... imagine having condis throwing on you and instead of getting a second chance with down state you just die instantly feeels bad man.
imo Zerker and assassin ammy shouldn't be options in spvp in general. This also changes nothing with your previous statements techncially speaking the side with the better team or higher numbers in a fight will still heavily favor that side.
>
> Furthermore, I think it might be worth preventing teammates from rezzing until combat ends as well. These changes would make fights more about who is more skilled as opposed to who has the numbers advantage.
It wont though it will still be the same. Dont be fooled into the idea that this changes much.
>
> Anyways, that's just something I was thinking about from the no downstate WvW. A lot of people loved it, I have a feeling the same would apply for sPvP. Also, I feel like the combat would be a lot cleaner and easier to watch since people aren't constantly going up and down.
I wouldnt mind no down state events or some maps having no down state like if team death or other game modes were supported but in the standard capture and hold i dont really see the point.
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> @"kraai.7265" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > Eso u can restealth and aoe's take u outa stealth but going into stealth and being in stealth is a auto cleanse. Also way easier and longer stealth :)
>
> No it's not, if you are affected by a condition, each tick will reveal you, you can go back into stealth but it's useless, it doesn't cleanse, on the contrary condi damage will reveal you again and again, any sort of damage will actually, to me it's the best way to implement it in a mmo ever
I think he is considering the aspect of your eso meets gw2 in other words in gw2 when a thief gains stealth with shadow arts and the right traits they clense conditions meaning the idea of having conditional ticks pull some one out of stealth just wouldnt work
But you are looking from the eso perspective where its not as easy to cleanse afflictions on you especially against some builds as there is no universal poison dot for example there can be various dots on you that all deal poison damage while in gw2 poison is just a universal dot. As gw2 has a rarity of effects (which cant be cleansed) that deal dot style damage. For example Guardian GS5.
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> @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > @"Avatar.3568" said:
> > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.
> >
> > **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**
>
> 'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'
>
>
>
LOL
I remember seeing this dude in pvp
One Evade man!
I laughed so hard the whole time.
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> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"apharma.3741" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"Tharan.9085" said:
> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said:
> > > > > > Imagine crying about stealth while the actual problem is powercreep
> > > > >
> > > > > Imagine two problems existing at the same time
> > > >
> > > > Imagine one of them not beeing a problem until the other emerged
> > >
> > > Immagine if stealth was not a problem , why the company tried unsuccefully to create 3 sec cast time Stealth Disruptor traps > Stealth Detection Balloons > HoT Warriors aoe utilities stealth detection > throw paint ball stealth detection
> > > (2014)
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcPZyINzcXY....
> > >
> >
> > The mistake wasn't that stealth existed, the mistake was sending 20 guys to do what 2 or even 1 would do. Though now they gave thief portal so they messed up balance there.
> >
> > Though it does go back to what I was saying, "the only problem with stealth in this game is that stacking of it needs to be brought under control."
>
> Giving more tools in theifs , like the portal/new traps , its fine .
> Give them even more , like Blade and Soul .
Been waiting for someone to bring up blade and soul for a while now thankfully someone has a good idea of how balanced stealth in a game should be. imo blade and soul stealth was always the best of the examples ive seen talked about so far with ESO being a close second.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cheeseball C.8395" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > Reaper needs some QoL but not outrageous buffs like the OP suggested imo.
> > > > Like for example how anet made reaper cost more life force per second than the standard shroud in exchange for stronger melee power but neglected to adjust the life force gain on associated reaper traits specifically.
> > > >
> > > > Update shouts and the related trait
> > > > **Your soul is mine**
> > > > Increase the life force gain slightly as a result of the reaper life force increase cost some time back.
> > > >
> > > > **Relentless Onslaught**
> > > > Remove Quickness and replace attack speed increase (or to be technical cast time reduction) by 10 or 15 percent
> > > > **Chilling Victory**
> > > > Increase life force gain on hitting chilled foes as result of the reaper life force increase cost.
> > > >
> > > > **Base reaper**
> > > > Base attack speed bumped up by about 20-25 percent. (or to be technical cast time reductions.)
> > > >
> > > > Reaper is now faster with attacking at base but not quickness level fast.
> > > >
> > > > Ideally quickness on RO is just acting as a bandaid to a issue that should have been dealt with a long time ago. Base reaper without it is virtually unplayable in 2019-2020 for the most part even if you use the deathly chill its likely that it only works because people are use to quickness reapers meaning they dodge skills too early (in other words its gimmicky). Considering anet is trying to deal with reducing boons in general its best they just remove the boon and solve the issue correctly at the base level instead of culling the quickness down to a point that makes reaper function clunky. Or makes it even easier to counter by say providing one short instance of quickness which will promptly be stripped the moment someone activates shroud.
> > >
> > > This might be an unintended super buff to my combo with fb giving me quickness on top of the suggested buffed base attack speed making it be able to attack faster than ever before in team fights. Id take it! xD
> > >
> > > I donno i just want gravedigger to guarantee it makes some kind of an impact when it hits like add 100% crit chance on it or a cc/condi on it.
> >
> > technically yes it would be a solo player nerf to attack speed but attack speed not being 2014 slow....
> > and a buff to group content when you get the potent boon from an ally which is how the game should be.
>
> If you had GS speed buff lets say you make it 15-20% faster and you get quickness that would be really sweet in pve, and probably contribute some dps as well to make it closer to everyone, but i'm not sure by how much. Of course you would also have to lose the quickness from shroud though. Maybe they can return some healing too from gs trait, not all of it but some.
To be honest i dont think gs needs a speed increase just the shroud basic attacks and skills. Those need a base speed increase then the quickness boon can be removed from RO trait and reaper wouldnt feel so clunky without quickness.
I think GS damage for its attack speed is ok. Base reaper speed for its damage is kind of embarassing. IT would actually be lower than gs damage i think if without the effects of RO right now.
The shroud should still remain as the strongest part of core and reapers kits imo. It should feel like a power boost too use not be totally equal to when you are out of shroud and for that reason i dont think GS needs any kind of buffs damage wise i think someones suggestion for a DMC stinger dash attack on skill 3 would be cool but damage wise i dont think it needs anymore.
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> @"Cheeseball C.8395" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Reaper needs some QoL but not outrageous buffs like the OP suggested imo.
> > Like for example how anet made reaper cost more life force per second than the standard shroud in exchange for stronger melee power but neglected to adjust the life force gain on associated reaper traits specifically.
> >
> > Update shouts and the related trait
> > **Your soul is mine**
> > Increase the life force gain slightly as a result of the reaper life force increase cost some time back.
> >
> > **Relentless Onslaught**
> > Remove Quickness and replace attack speed increase (or to be technical cast time reduction) by 10 or 15 percent
> > **Chilling Victory**
> > Increase life force gain on hitting chilled foes as result of the reaper life force increase cost.
> >
> > **Base reaper**
> > Base attack speed bumped up by about 20-25 percent. (or to be technical cast time reductions.)
> >
> > Reaper is now faster with attacking at base but not quickness level fast.
> >
> > Ideally quickness on RO is just acting as a bandaid to a issue that should have been dealt with a long time ago. Base reaper without it is virtually unplayable in 2019-2020 for the most part even if you use the deathly chill its likely that it only works because people are use to quickness reapers meaning they dodge skills too early (in other words its gimmicky). Considering anet is trying to deal with reducing boons in general its best they just remove the boon and solve the issue correctly at the base level instead of culling the quickness down to a point that makes reaper function clunky. Or makes it even easier to counter by say providing one short instance of quickness which will promptly be stripped the moment someone activates shroud.
>
> This might be an unintended super buff to my combo with fb giving me quickness on top of the suggested buffed base attack speed making it be able to attack faster than ever before in team fights. Id take it! xD
>
technically yes it would be a solo player nerf to attack speed but attack speed not being 2014 slow....
and a buff to group content when you get the potent boon from an ally which is how the game should be.
> I donno i just want gravedigger to guarantee it makes some kind of an impact when it hits like add 100% crit chance on it or a cc/condi on it.
Also no grave digger should not be changed unless they plan to remove its no cd under 50% function
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> @"Calisanna.8732" said:
> glad changes are coming. I could have fallen asleep during this stream though. Not sure if they were focusing on the comments leading to lack of action, or if they were just on yet another dead timezone/server. I couldn’t fully watch it and skipped ahead often. I thank you for posting the time code with the important info. I can only watch so much running around in a tower.
I would like to see them stream pvp matches some time instead of this wvw every time where they can spend long periods actually not in combat and not doing anything. It would be nice to see them do some combat with small scaled battles but meh...
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Tycura.1982"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.
> > > > > > > > There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.
> > > > > > > > So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.
> > > > > > > > Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course its possible for necro to win any match up just like its possible for warrior or ranger or any other profession but just because that does not make something balanced lol. I am a firm believer of the ideal that "anything is 'technically' possible" There could be a wide number of reasons why the profession with the advantage wins or the one with the disadvantage wins (how ever you want to put that). Sadly if you balance for the best only anyone below the best will see the game as being badly balanced if you balance for new players anyone with a decent number of hours will see it as badly balanced. ITs gotta be on the middle/high ground but not the top percentile. The majority of the games players are not top percentiles lol. Sadly being top player on x profession does not mean the be all end all of how something should / should not be balanced.
> > > > >
> > > > > True i was pointing out that he got lucky got multiple kill shots.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even if the best necro he still is at a massive disadvantage remember that herald? holy cow the mobility and damage of herald is nuts, whats worse is if you play vs the best thief(sindrener) its impossible to nearly impossible which is ridiculous). You should never be so hard countered that you have no chance. I think thief needs to lose something.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Necro has kind of be held back by its core ideals and thats kept it from getting too far out of hand "until scourge" but basically everything before scourge is not as crazy as what the others can do from a mechanical perspective. Even the biggest feature of reaper which was chill got culled down to the point that its not a real factor in most matchups. Anets idea is that it must be slow in mobility, damage, and potential ramp but at the same time its suppose to be slow to die because of shroud soaking damage. But when damage does 20k in a few seconds well... soaking does not come close to equalling what just damage evasion or blocking produces in sustain.
> > > >
> > > > Even the minor changes like before HoT where chill stopped working on leaps and another gap closers that are not blinks etc hurt necros a good bit. that said i think having counters is fine but only if everyone has roughly the same number of counters and even then yes it shouldn't mean instant stomp.
> > > >
> > > > IF something counters me to the point I didn't get the chance to retaliate or play i have issue with that. Aka being one shot from stealth for example regardless of who does it.
> > > >
> > > > It will be interesting to see how things change.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Its why i think warrs and thiefs need to be nerfed along with most other classes. Seeing how herald played in that vid it was pretty insane ports with cc and dmg combined WOW.
> >
> > Well to be fair necro has a few things it needs in reductions too but they are very niche things and or things that should have been done correctly the first time instead of just bandaid fixing much like the Reapers Onslaught buff that was just a hard bandaid to reapers slow attack speed problem. Rather than adjusting the cast times on base shroud to make the speed compeitive but not quickness level they just slapped quickness on RO and pigeon toed everyone into it. If we see less boons we will no doubt see some reductions too boon corrupts as well as skills that just do a lot of things in one use like scepter 3 that tool tip is pretty bloated an i wont be surprised if it gets some meaty reductions.
> >
> > Warriors mostly need might synergy looked into and making some things more clear visually.
> > Thief needs something i dont really know what to say though i know people complaint about pistol whip but i mean thief is almost like necro if something is strong / viable people will not like it. Thief unfortunately will always be a pain in the butt by their design of allowing them to use skills rapidly with no cd so i think no matter how they nerf them someone will aways find away to make them so annoying that people will always want them nerfed.
>
> Sure As long as we get back since we have a lot of silly over hard counters that leave us in a unfun position, so if that can be improved that would be great, even if it means further nerfs to dmg for SPVP only with reaper so long as everyone else also gets nerf if they hit too hard, or boon corrupt if its a problem which melts folks too fast, but i'm guessing boons will also need huge nerfs too.
>
The silly amount of hard counters necromancer has at a core level extend all the way up through its elites which is a shame. This is kind of what i mean when I say necro is aggressively balanced based on core game launch values because unlike other professions all it ever gained was more aoe pressure and better damage with the 2nd being something everyone got along with lots of other tools.
> I know if boonspam gets huge nerfs and boon corrupt doesn't get at least a little hit, its going to be a problem.
To be honest corrupts are in such a odd spot i feel like nerfing boons too much will auto nerf corrupts there wont be a need for them if boons get toned down to the point you rarely get good converts. Right now you can rip boons and they are immediately replaced or cleared.
>
> I don't think there is too much to nerf for necro since a lot of stuff is already alright in terms of where it is comparitely maybe cept scourge which was just plain nerfed and in a odd place because it was nerfed improperly.
I hope scourge sees a rework in the big changes coming that lets it actually do something i know alot of people wont like a scourge rework but i would rather rework it than keep it stuck in a form they cant really balance.
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> @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > @"bravan.3876" said:
> > > Btw Ranger pets are not supposed to work like a passive dmg sourge you can send into teamfights for ages and hope it survives in heavy aoe, you have a button for calling your pet back and forward, and send it on different targets. If you just let the pet do his thing passively and let it die in aoe than you play it wrong.
> > > That is exactly the point, the pet can bait out too many defensive cooldowns by its own even during the Ranger is kiting/ los-ing/ stealthed/ blocking etc himself and can't be hurt.
> >
> > :thinking:
> >
> > Pets aren't these mobile, unkillable nukes. They barely do damage outside of like 2 attacks on Gazelle and they deal negative damage in a team fight when there is a Firebrand and other classes throwing around protective boons like Aegis and Blind (which would literally nullify Gazelle's damaging skills).
> >
> > Quick tip: if you're blowing defensive cooldowns on anything except Smokescale's Takedown or Gazelle's Charge, you're doing it wrong. You can literally walk out of Gazelle's Head Toss before it goes off, unless you're CC'd/immobilized, but dodge the Child of Earth if you know the pet swap to Gazelle's cooldown is up. So if by "too many cooldowns" you mean a single dodge for both pets, then yeah, sure. Anything else is just a waste and you need to practice more against rangers if you're doing dumb stuff like dodging their auto attacks (instead of kiting the pet) and blowing defensives on skills that have deal 3k damage like SS's Smoke Assault.
> >
> > 1. [Ranger vs. Ranger](
) - Mirror Matchup> > 2. [Mesmer vs. Ranger](
) - Punishing Maul> > 3. [Mesmer vs. Ranger](
) - Countering Longbow and Punishing Evade Frames> > 4. [Engi 1v2 vs. Core Mantra Mes and Core Marksmanship Ranger](
) - Good example on how to avoid/bait out ranger skills whilst simultaneously keeping track of pet attacks in a winning 1v2.> >
> > I think I get memed maybe once a year against a oneshot WI Sic Em Soulbeast (they are basically perma dead vs. me regardless of class once I know what they're running). But people saying stuff like: rangers get carried by their pets, pets are tracing missiles, and I'm dying to the pets! are hilarious. I can't remember the last time I actually died to a Marksmanship Gazelle burst. It just doesn't happen to players once they know where the damage on ranger comes from (not even that hard to figure out). Which also happens to be the reason why rangers are literally nonexistent in more competitive settings. So when I hear, "So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions." ... yeah, by that definition, all of these people have L2P issues. With that being said, I've also suggested several nerfs to the class that actually address issues:
> >
> > 1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
> > 2. Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)
> > 3. Lower the block duration on GS4 to 2s.
> > 4. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.
> > 5. Remove Plasma from Siamoth.
> >
> > But yeah. Those videos are a few examples on how to fight against rangers. Not very difficult.
>
> I think there is some confirmation bias. People remember when the pet kills them. Not when the pet doesn't. As rangers we know it doesn't not happen too often.
>
> 1. They could even halve the damage on gazelle F2 and charge and it'd still be a good pet.
If they go with the CC attacks shouldnt do big damage the f2 and its charge attack should have almost no damage as they are cc attacks. Just saying i hope they dont kill cc damage on almost every profession and forget this pets cc attacks. No other pets in rangers kit has cc attacks with the kind of damage Gazelle does
>
> 2. Moment of Clarity is fine. How often are rangers chaining interrupts into hard hitting pet skills?
IF certain pets get damage reductions i can agree this wont be needed.
>
> 3. Shouldn't we fix the bug abuse on GS-4 before we nerf it more?
>
Gonna say nope just cause its currently better than a warrior shield block which im not sure it should be. I have to say ranger should not have the ranged pressure it gains from longbow or axe along side melee pressure and melee defense similar to that of warrior. Thats why people have issues with rangers cause they have the advantage at ranged so you rush them down and they are just as strong as warriors with gs in hand. This drives people to move away from them but doing that gives them long bow advantage again... Most people likely dont see a safe point to make the advantage because it's easy for rangers to deny that with just weapon / pet/ beast skills.
Most other ranged dps offensive builds dont allow for both very well either you are good with melee and weak at ranged or super strong at ranged and kinda weak in melee.
Just my thoughts tho
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > > @"Tycura.1982"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.
> > > > > > There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.
> > > > > > So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.
> > > > > > Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)
> > > >
> > > > Of course its possible for necro to win any match up just like its possible for warrior or ranger or any other profession but just because that does not make something balanced lol. I am a firm believer of the ideal that "anything is 'technically' possible" There could be a wide number of reasons why the profession with the advantage wins or the one with the disadvantage wins (how ever you want to put that). Sadly if you balance for the best only anyone below the best will see the game as being badly balanced if you balance for new players anyone with a decent number of hours will see it as badly balanced. ITs gotta be on the middle/high ground but not the top percentile. The majority of the games players are not top percentiles lol. Sadly being top player on x profession does not mean the be all end all of how something should / should not be balanced.
> > >
> > > True i was pointing out that he got lucky got multiple kill shots.
> > >
> > > Even if the best necro he still is at a massive disadvantage remember that herald? holy cow the mobility and damage of herald is nuts, whats worse is if you play vs the best thief(sindrener) its impossible to nearly impossible which is ridiculous). You should never be so hard countered that you have no chance. I think thief needs to lose something.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Necro has kind of be held back by its core ideals and thats kept it from getting too far out of hand "until scourge" but basically everything before scourge is not as crazy as what the others can do from a mechanical perspective. Even the biggest feature of reaper which was chill got culled down to the point that its not a real factor in most matchups. Anets idea is that it must be slow in mobility, damage, and potential ramp but at the same time its suppose to be slow to die because of shroud soaking damage. But when damage does 20k in a few seconds well... soaking does not come close to equalling what just damage evasion or blocking produces in sustain.
> >
> > Even the minor changes like before HoT where chill stopped working on leaps and another gap closers that are not blinks etc hurt necros a good bit. that said i think having counters is fine but only if everyone has roughly the same number of counters and even then yes it shouldn't mean instant stomp.
> >
> > IF something counters me to the point I didn't get the chance to retaliate or play i have issue with that. Aka being one shot from stealth for example regardless of who does it.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see how things change.
> >
>
> Its why i think warrs and thiefs need to be nerfed along with most other classes. Seeing how herald played in that vid it was pretty insane ports with cc and dmg combined WOW.
Well to be fair necro has a few things it needs in reductions too but they are very niche things and or things that should have been done correctly the first time instead of just bandaid fixing much like the Reapers Onslaught buff that was just a hard bandaid to reapers slow attack speed problem. Rather than adjusting the cast times on base shroud to make the speed compeitive but not quickness level they just slapped quickness on RO and pigeon toed everyone into it. If we see less boons we will no doubt see some reductions too boon corrupts as well as skills that just do a lot of things in one use like scepter 3 that tool tip is pretty bloated an i wont be surprised if it gets some meaty reductions.
Warriors mostly need might synergy looked into and making some things more clear visually.
Thief needs something i dont really know what to say though i know people complaint about pistol whip but i mean thief is almost like necro if something is strong / viable people will not like it. Thief unfortunately will always be a pain in the butt by their design of allowing them to use skills rapidly with no cd so i think no matter how they nerf them someone will aways find away to make them so annoying that people will always want them nerfed.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > @"Tycura.1982"
> > > > >
> > > > > Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
> > > >
> > > > Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.
> > > >
> > > > FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.
> > > >
> > > > PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.
> > > >
> > > > The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.
> > > >
> > > > The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief
> > > > >
> > > > > Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.
> > > >
> > > > Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.
> > > > There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.
> > > >
> > > > So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.
> > > >
> > > > If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.
> > > > So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.
> > > >
> > > > There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.
> > > > Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.
> > >
> > > Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)
> >
> > Of course its possible for necro to win any match up just like its possible for warrior or ranger or any other profession but just because that does not make something balanced lol. I am a firm believer of the ideal that "anything is 'technically' possible" There could be a wide number of reasons why the profession with the advantage wins or the one with the disadvantage wins (how ever you want to put that). Sadly if you balance for the best only anyone below the best will see the game as being badly balanced if you balance for new players anyone with a decent number of hours will see it as badly balanced. ITs gotta be on the middle/high ground but not the top percentile. The majority of the games players are not top percentiles lol. Sadly being top player on x profession does not mean the be all end all of how something should / should not be balanced.
>
> True i was pointing out that he got lucky got multiple kill shots.
>
> Even if the best necro he still is at a massive disadvantage remember that herald? holy cow the mobility and damage of herald is nuts, whats worse is if you play vs the best thief(sindrener) its impossible to nearly impossible which is ridiculous). You should never be so hard countered that you have no chance. I think thief needs to lose something.
>
>
Necro has kind of be held back by its core ideals and thats kept it from getting too far out of hand "until scourge" but basically everything before scourge is not as crazy as what the others can do from a mechanical perspective. Even the biggest feature of reaper which was chill got culled down to the point that its not a real factor in most matchups. Anets idea is that it must be slow in mobility, damage, and potential ramp but at the same time its suppose to be slow to die because of shroud soaking damage. But when damage does 20k in a few seconds well... soaking does not come close to equalling what just damage evasion or blocking produces in sustain.
Even the minor changes like before HoT where chill stopped working on leaps and another gap closers that are not blinks etc hurt necros a good bit. that said i think having counters is fine but only if everyone has roughly the same number of counters and even then yes it shouldn't mean instant stomp.
IF something counters me to the point I didn't get the chance to retaliate or play i have issue with that. Aka being one shot from stealth for example regardless of who does it.
It will be interesting to see how things change.
-
i honestly dont really know and with the passing days i feel like i start to care less and less cause they will no doubt do things that make sense and alot of things that dont make sense.
Game modes wont be added so balance is still likely in the end going to be stuck in a spot thats not super well fitting for a capture and hold style game mode. That in itself is likely a massive part of the problem.
As far as things being over looked as Ben said a lot of that could be reduced with public testing. I still think this is a feature that would have been worth doing for big changes like this especially when you dont know what the public will come up with hours or a day after release especially if its something thats not fixable and requires something being disabled or left broken for weeks/ months at a time.
While pubic testing balance changes is going to be subject to a lot of harsh "WHY DID YOU NERF ME SO HARD BUT NOT X PROFESSION!" it would also reveal a lot of things that you guys will no doubt overlook by mistake. The game has alot of skills and traits, runes, sigils etc without a doubt you are going to overlook alot of things especially things that are not meta right now but still "pretty strong" but just not used because meta is some what better.
I guess if i hope for anything is that a good majority of past values still being held from the launch of the game can be just let go opening up some freedom to make each profession as balanced as possible rather than holding a few of them to some standard that is just not very compatible in the game that exists today in 2020.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > @"Tycura.1982"
> > >
> > > Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
> >
> > Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.
> >
> > FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.
> >
> > PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.
> >
> > The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.
> >
> > The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief
> > >
> > > Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.
> >
> > Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.
> > There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.
> >
> > So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.
> >
> > If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.
> > So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.
> >
> > There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.
> > Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.
>
> Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)
Of course its possible for necro to win any match up just like its possible for warrior or ranger or any other profession but just because that does not make something balanced lol. I am a firm believer of the ideal that "anything is 'technically' possible" There could be a wide number of reasons why the profession with the advantage wins or the one with the disadvantage wins (how ever you want to put that). Sadly if you balance for the best only anyone below the best will see the game as being badly balanced if you balance for new players anyone with a decent number of hours will see it as badly balanced. ITs gotta be on the middle/high ground but not the top percentile. The majority of the games players are not top percentiles lol. Sadly being top player on x profession does not mean the be all end all of how something should / should not be balanced.
-
> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said:
> > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:
> > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the
> > > > > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit.
> > > > > > > > > > Grants quickness
> > > > > > > > > > Inflicts slow
> > > > > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons
> > > > > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions
> > > > > > > > > > is unblockable.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon**
> > > > > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions
> > > > > > > > > > is Unblockable
> > > > > > > > > > Inflicts self poison
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal.
> > > > > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them.
> > > > > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Corrupt Boon:
> > > > > > > Removes 3 boons
> > > > > > > Applies 3 conditions
> > > > > > > Unblockable
> > > > > > > 18s cool down
> > > > > > > 2 charges.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Arcane Thievery:
> > > > > > > Removes 3 boons
> > > > > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions
> > > > > > > Unblockable
> > > > > > > 25s cool down
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only.
> > > > >
> > > > > AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise
> > > > Ill say it again thats false
> > > > Ive been using corrupt boon in a few corruption heavy builds the past few days instead of my lesser corrupt builds and on any profession that can apply stability and more than 3-4 other boons at the same time it can totally miss the stability due to other boon coverage. There was even an instance in which i converted every thing except stability. Please dont use false information.
> > > >
> > > > I play necro daily and any time ive ever used corrupt boon on a boon heavy profession like guardian , some eles, rangers using plasma etc. Its totally possible to completely miss the stability while hitting 3 other boons on the bar with CB. So either im right and you are wrong or both of us are wrong and neither one of us is correct. There is no priority on CB hitting stability lets just get that right....
> > > >
> > > > Dont be fooled into thinking CB auto hits stability every single time when the reality is most players dont even realize how much stability they pump out in their powercrept builds without a lot of boon coverage.
> > > >
> > > > Warriors and Ele will say that necro fear is op and that necros have too many fears without realizing the source of that fear is the stability they keep spamming with almost no other boons sitting along side it making it easier to convert. IF stab is like the 1 of the only 3 boons on the bar of course you will land it with CB if its up there with 8 or 9 other boons there is a good chance you can totally miss it.
> > > Second or third time you are writing a wall instead of short answer... :pepehands:
> > > tldr : CB doesnt convert stability if someone applied 3 boons over it... and... even if it would be true ( unless you run multipletests, but you didnt ) they should be able to cover it instant after applying stability and they would likely to use CP for stability asap... What the point you were trying to make? That corrupted stability = fear, wew, never knew that /s
> >
> > That you shouldnt say CB priortizes stab when you dont have proof of such a thing ;) :pepehands:
> > You say it does one thing and i say its does not what we have here is a good ole stand off. I guess both of us are just incorrect.
> You see someone pop stab = CB = fear . Bigbrain. Thats also incorrect, never use CB, it does nothing ;)
Yup i guess so sounds like you got it all figured out with BiGBrAiN4HeAd JuStDoDgE LeArN2pLaY GeEgEe
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> @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Seems a bit boring i still have not found the mood to even finish my 500 cooking quest yet. I cant think of a single game where i enjoyed the fishing unless it was one of those games only dedicated to fishing lol i think the dream cast console had a game like that... that was the last time i enjoyed fishing in a video game... would rather go fishing irl tbh.
>
> I would personally just like more interactive things to do around maps, even if it's not fishing in particular. No matter what map I go to in PvE it really boils down to doing similar meta events and passively gathering nodes. Some more mini-game like features scattered throughout maps would be nice, they can tie special skins and collections to them. Something to break up the same ol' same ol'. Maybe how final fantasy has card game mini games.
I feel like HoT challenge mini games were suppose to be exactly that and people hated a fair amount of them so anet mostly stopped adding them after that.
To be fair a lot of them were super frustrating there are some in which i would never ever dare do again because they were that much of a pain in the butt to get gold in.
That said those mini games didnt offer special skins or collection things just mastery points which you kind of need to generally play through the game and some story instances so depending on how smart/lucky you were with spending HoT mastery points at the time they may have been chill or super frustrating.
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> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > @"Poelala.2830" said:
> > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the
> > > > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit.
> > > > > > > > Grants quickness
> > > > > > > > Inflicts slow
> > > > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons
> > > > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions
> > > > > > > > is unblockable.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon**
> > > > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions
> > > > > > > > is Unblockable
> > > > > > > > Inflicts self poison
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal.
> > > > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them.
> > > > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Corrupt Boon:
> > > > > Removes 3 boons
> > > > > Applies 3 conditions
> > > > > Unblockable
> > > > > 18s cool down
> > > > > 2 charges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Arcane Thievery:
> > > > > Removes 3 boons
> > > > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions
> > > > > Unblockable
> > > > > 25s cool down
> > > > >
> > > > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness"
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding."
> > > > >
> > > > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to.
> > > >
> > > > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only.
> > >
> > > AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise
> > Ill say it again thats false
> > Ive been using corrupt boon in a few corruption heavy builds the past few days instead of my lesser corrupt builds and on any profession that can apply stability and more than 3-4 other boons at the same time it can totally miss the stability due to other boon coverage. There was even an instance in which i converted every thing except stability. Please dont use false information.
> >
> > I play necro daily and any time ive ever used corrupt boon on a boon heavy profession like guardian , some eles, rangers using plasma etc. Its totally possible to completely miss the stability while hitting 3 other boons on the bar with CB. So either im right and you are wrong or both of us are wrong and neither one of us is correct. There is no priority on CB hitting stability lets just get that right....
> >
> > Dont be fooled into thinking CB auto hits stability every single time when the reality is most players dont even realize how much stability they pump out in their powercrept builds without a lot of boon coverage.
> >
> > Warriors and Ele will say that necro fear is op and that necros have too many fears without realizing the source of that fear is the stability they keep spamming with almost no other boons sitting along side it making it easier to convert. IF stab is like the 1 of the only 3 boons on the bar of course you will land it with CB if its up there with 8 or 9 other boons there is a good chance you can totally miss it.
> Second or third time you are writing a wall instead of short answer... :pepehands:
> tldr : CB doesnt convert stability if someone applied 3 boons over it... and... even if it would be true ( unless you run multipletests, but you didnt ) they should be able to cover it instant after applying stability and they would likely to use CP for stability asap... What the point you were trying to make? That corrupted stability = fear, wew, never knew that /s
That you shouldnt say CB priortizes stab when you dont have proof of such a thing ;) :pepehands:
You say it does one thing and i say its does not what we have here is a good ole stand off. I guess both of us are just incorrect.
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Seems a bit boring i still have not found the mood to even finish my 500 cooking quest yet. I cant think of a single game where i enjoyed the fishing unless it was one of those games only dedicated to fishing lol i think the dream cast console had a game like that... that was the last time i enjoyed fishing in a video game... would rather go fishing irl tbh.
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CC damage nerfs across the board if its a CC and does damage it wont anymore
Less boons
Less 1 shot potential for everyone but specifically for the biggest offenders, thief, mesmer, rev
Great reduction in skills that do damage and evade at the same time.
Any invuln skill nerfing outgoing damage
Self might nerfs across the board
Guardian/Firebrand gets nerfed but gets compensated like it almost always does
Ranger nerfs because realistically needs them but also complaints
Rev nerfs because damage complaints
Mirage nerfs because complaints
Thief nerfs because spam complaints
Minor holo nerfs
Warrior nerfs because realistically needs them but also complaints
Weaver nerfs in damage or sustain
Necro nerfs because thats thematic must be slower and weaker than other professions by game launch day values
2020 predictions by the new black lion copper fed Balance Crystal Ball. Get yours today for 200 gems.
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> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > I kind of wish gw2 offer charging abilities like some other games have where skills can be used with a normal cast time or you can hold the skill key down to charge and increase its effectiveness based on how long you charged the skill up to a cap. This could be something that worked greatly for all profession generally i think.
> >
> > I like the idea of air overload being over charged to strike faster and faster or earth overloads range growing in size over time. Water providing over healing / barrier and fire just needs to be better in general.
> >
> > That said overloads are a bit weird atm. I think tempest is cool but overloads are a bit left behind. Then again i guess anet wants tempest to kind of be stuck in that support role so they are not doing much with it.
>
> More or less like what ESO does with their light/heavy standard attack? I disagree. If you add something, it'll get used. The problem with those charge attacks is they slow combat down. In the case of ESO, it's rolled into their resource management, but it still makes for poor pacing, in my opinion.
hmmm i was thinking not on standard auto attacks though im thinking more or cast skills like specifically alot of magic cast style skills in the case of warriors like being able to charge arc divider or maybe axe throw.
Possibly even some elites like mass invis, chill to the bone, etc
Some skills could work like that downed signet skill where the longer you hold it the stronger its effect and a circle expands under the player. Some skills might gain more damage while others just gain more range or effect duration etc.
I dont really like the idea for doing this for auto attacks though as i agree it would slow the game down too much. Im thinking more of skills with cds only which could have impact for the risk of going for the extra duration charge.
> I have the same issue with the overload design. GW2 combat plays pretty fast. It's one of the things I like about it. But here we take a class based on swapping into various skill sets as needed and give them these really slow 4s overload casts that then double their attunement swap cooldown? I'm sure some people prefer that to the rapid swapping of weaver and it's good to have options, but I would love it if we could find a way to do away with 4s casts and 20s lockouts for tempest and have overloads work differently.
I would say overloads could certainly use a bit of QoL maybe even make them just standardly available the moment you swap into that attune after a .5s delay to prevent accidentally double tapping... maybe with a trait investment should you wait a bit longer though say 4-5 seconds the overload upgrades and can be used with a lesser cd or something or maybe that using 1 over load causes other lockouts to cool down faster. Then is i dont think tempest should be power crept into a direct offensive thing when anet kind of wants it to stay in the zone of a support or offensive support at best. But it certainly could use a tad bit of QoL
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> @"Tycura.1982"
>
> Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.
FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.
PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.
The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.
The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief
>
> Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.
Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.
There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.
So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.
If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.
So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.
There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.
Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.
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> @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741"
>
> Hammer core guard can essentially 1 shot a dps ranger. And as long as dolyak stance isn't available, hammer ring trashes rangers.
>
> 100% hammer guard is better vs ranger than the meta core guard.
>
> Do people play hammer core guard? Nope.
>
> Is that the Ranger's problem? Nope.
sounds interesting might dust off my guardian for some fun.
Hamme is one of those weapons most people generally dont like but on guard it could be interesting my only issue with it is that it gets a bit too gimmicky after some one sees it the first time the level of difficulty to land a combo on them after that increases considerably.
Thats prob why its not used though.
GW2 Stealth : Extremely poor implementation respect to other MMOs
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > @"Avatar.3568" said:
> > > > Gw2 stealth is working in the way it is intended, **classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth,** if you implement the stealth mechanics from other mmo's mesmers, thiefs, rangers and even engis would die pretty fast. It's there last return and stealth makes them not unkillable or unlocatable, used skills are still visible, if you auto attack and your attack chain starts you hit an stealthed dude.
> > > >
> > > > **Stealth in gw 2 has a big learning curve**
> > >
> > > 'classes that do use stealth would just die in seconds without stealth'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > LOL
> > I remember seeing this dude in pvp
> > One Evade man!
> >
> > I laughed so hard the whole time.
> >
> >
>
> from 5:05 to 6:05 . 1 minute
> he dodged 40 times xd
>
to be fair d/d 3 is not seamless when used back to back, especially at least with charr it has a horrid after cast which make it feel clunky and leaves room for being stunned
That said the warrior was bunker af and likely lacked the damage to kill him as he even managed to catch him a few times with some hits and cc.
He would have not lasted so long if the warrior was not a bunker build.
Still its funny to watched but this would frustrate me if i was the person getting flipped over like that.
I might try this build just for giggles to see how effective it is lol