ZDragon.3046
-
Posts
2,351 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Articles
Gallery
Posts posted by ZDragon.3046
-
-
> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
>
>
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > There is a reason druid is not as strong as core ranger and soulbeast
>
> Allow me to explain exactly why that is. Good place to recap this:
>
> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > These Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.
> >
> > I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:
> >
> > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86250/reworking-underperforming-specs-druid-edition <- this one has good explanations in odd spots
>
> But in a nutshell:
>
> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> >
> > There are 2 primary mechanical issues with Druid:
> > But yeah, that's the 2 main problems. 1) CA Kit is too nerfed for an active skill use kit in a DPS power crept game where everything else has enormous passive sustain. 2) The mechanics of CA Kit require those heal ticks to fill its bar for use in a practical time frame, which forces the use of Wilderness/Beastmastery for the kit to be viable at all. Which seriously limits what the Druid can do in terms of finding ways to get DPS output, while still keeping the functionality of its kit viable. **What Arenanet should do, is make 0 heal stat heals from CA Kit HIGHER, and then lower the coefficient gains from wearing heal stat amulets. This way Druids can organize for more DPS output, but can't build around being a solid 1v2 Bunker so easily.**
> >
> > Before we get to "I've seen some good high damage Condi Druids or maybe even power Druids" I dunno about that. I think what people are seeing is when a Druid is being ignored for the most part in the match, because it is the least of the team's worries, and so he is actually being allowed to fill his CA Kit at a slow pace. Then someone goes around a corner or something and tries to engage it on a side node, after the first 3+ minutes of the match after it finally has its CA Kit full. In this event, a Skirmishing/Sage Condi Druid will have a short opening to launch an aggressive play on you because his CA Kit happens to be full, and so he has an opening to bomb you and stealth disengage to get away with it. Or if it was a GS Axe/Axe wielding Druid, he'll be able to go in for a Soulbeast like burst and be able to stealth disengage once to get away with it, before it's going to take him an inordinate amount of time to refill that bar again. But I am absolutely guaranteeing you, that if you were to try and 1v1 these Druid builds like this, you'd notice that the normal average encounter with them, will result in you being able to kill the Druid before it ever gets to use its CA Kit even once. <- And this is why Druids get pigeonholed into Wilderness/Beastmaster for that regen, growth, troll.
> >
> > Telling you right now that anyone who runs Druid without Wilderness/Beastmastery is hindering themselves. If they want to stray from these mechanics, they will have a much stronger performance in every way by running Core or Soulbeast. Any Druid spec that is not Wilderness/Beastmastery is garbage compared to Core/Soulbeast. This really is unfortunately true. And even Wilderness/Beastmastery variants, just don't perform well after pet nerf and Ancestral Grace nuke. If we can get a bit of nerfing to DPS power creep and/or buffing to Druid in general, it could be a contender again. But as of now, the class is completely mechanically and statistically impaired compared to other Bruiser specs that exist right now.
>
>
Hmmmm ok well this is a lot... and i do think that druid is not in its best spot that it could be in however.... (clearing some of your part to save some page space)
Part of me thinks you only or mostly are looking at druid with the aspect of it not playing a support role which is what it should be seen as. Druids issues likely are also the fact that anet has actively encouraged people to think that being offensive is the only means of staying alive which was a bad mistake on their part and why this games balance has gotten to the garbage state that its in now.
Ideally not every support should be a heavy bruiser, lets get that right.
IF your idea is that druid needs to be a busier then i dont agree. IF your kit offers higher healing or boon potential along with decent disengage potential you realistically should not be an offensive bruiser support. IF you get focused then you get focused. More supports actually need to be vulnerable like this and should not have extreme levels or methods of being able to solo kill perma sustain against others especially if they have good disengage tools already. The perfect balance would be supporting others while those others peel for you in the event you start to get focused. Not just giving the ranger an elite that just takes core ranger and gives it better sustain through disengage when used selfishly. This how a support becomes a broken offensive role with too much sustain.
The moment a support tries to step too far out role it should have very obvious exploitable weaknesses that cant be covered by certain traits or utilities.
This is the whole problem with support elites and support traitlines in this game in general. People use them selfishly and in a lot of cases they offer more benefit than the standard defensive line or tools for the base profession should offer which quickly leads to them being seen as broken.
Warrior tactics rework which is not an exception to this. People dont use tactics for support they use it for selfish sustain over defense.
Look at how firebrand is now and how its being complained about constantly because people use its supportive power offensively in a selfish manner instead of a true supportive one.
Dont doubt the idea that if revs could have used ventari to be a hyper aggressive bruiser or offensive role that they wouldnt have done it. Anet actually designed rev in a way that it cant do that without making a realistic trade that would give it a clear cut weakness for trying to use support tools while also being heavily offensive so they dont do it. IF ventari is used to realistically support it can do well and we have started to see some ventari / renegade or jails users come up now but if you try to flip the script and keep your offensive power and just use the support stuff for extra sustain it does not work very well.
Durid's issue is not that it should be a bruiser that can contend with the damage from holos and other things by being a tough fighter. ITs problem was that it was allowed to be bruiser in the first place and people ideals as a support out the window because anet allowed you to play in a more offensive role than a supportive one. Anet failed to target the right things to enforce players to use it as a main support role which lead to the over nerfing of some of its tools and skills in its kit.
Things that i agree with you could be improved for druid are
- having a lower cd on CA access
- upping the healing potential on the healing skills inside the kit a bit to be worth more with investment (even more so for outgoing targets and not just the druid itself)
- Being able to use it without a full tank of celestial gas but still require some minimum amount
Things that i do not agree with
- allowing it to be a bruiser or bunker period. There are other professions and elites better attuned to that role that are not also under the aspect of being a support. IF you want to be a brusier with solid self sustain then self sustain trait lines and skills should encourage that not support lines.
- focusing on the idea that it must have "good damage" or high offensive pressure when realistically it does not need these things for how i think anet wants it to be played.
IF anet could find a way to make druid good at healing and support with utility and minor offensive things like roots and some cc etc thats totally fine but when you start to cross that line of well i want to be a dps busier /bunker druid thats just as good as a core ranger but better because of x or y support thing i can use selfishly to my advantage thats a problem imo.
It would be nice if supports are all designed in such away that people naturally learn to watch their backs even in pug games. Seeing a druid, firebrand, scourge, or tempest on your team should automatically encourage you to want to peel for them but instead its more so looked at as "They can take care of themselves." Especially the ones like firebrand atm and how scourge was ages ago.
IF you want to be a dps druid that should be fine but it should come with the packaged deal of being shut down quicker than a pure support or bunker with no support aspects in its kit.
All supports should ideally be that way even looking at slightly more offensive ones like firebrand and scourge. We have options in the game now so there is no reason for anet to try and keep a good chunk of these elites in the idea of build how you want to unfortunately they have been pulling away from this for some time now. Especially the ones deemed to be supports which are some of the most problematic ones in the games history. Chrono, Tempest, Durid, Scourge, Firebrand to be put bluntly.
TLDR:
I agree with reasoning number 1 damage generally around the game is too high.
I some what disagree with some parts of with reasoning number 2. Lets not look at druid as a offensive player and look at how anet should make it a true support allowing people to build around deferent methods of support that are not being side node bunker or a brusier that easily can kill a pure offensive role because sustain from support aspects are there.
I would have loved to see more supportive options like focusing on condi clear or converting condis too boons, outgoing Boon application, raw outgoing healing, outgoing mobility improvement for their allies. etc... Not how can we make druid a support but also give it enough dps to kill /outlast the majority of things that walk up to it while it solo guards home or mid point.
You dont have to agree with this of course.
Going back into the main topic In the case of core ranger and soul beast core ranger is just strong as is and soulbeast makes ranger too mechanically advantages against too many situations. Like it or not Ranger/soulbeast or boon beast is part of the damage is too high problem also that you pointed out for druid.
-
> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> Well here is a good question for you guys who insist that Ranger/Soulbeast is too strong:
>
> Is it Core Ranger or is it Soulbeast that is too strong?
>
> @"bravan.3876" @"Zexanima.7851" @"Psycoprophet.8107" @"JETWING.2759"
will also answer this
Its both
Core ranger is a very strong core stable profession at its base imo its one of the 3 strongest along side warrior, and guardian. Any elites that provide power creep ontop of these professions without realistic trade off makes them more potent.
There is a reason druid is not as strong as core ranger and soulbeast
There is a reason why berserker is not as strong as core warrior and spell breaker
etc etc
-
This is a good guide actually but it does not change the fact that some things on ranger are not proper and it still needs reductions in some areas.
Its about the ranger having to compromise to actually lose the fight which is why you zero'ed in on LoS so much how ever when you pointed out other professions. Other professions are often easily handled the moment you get in on them. Ranger does not follow this rule as it has blocks, and evades, and plentiful stealth access. Ideally rangers are by the way you defined them just as bad as scourge was in the since that you have to just leave when they show up because you cant contest a point when one shows up. You leave and give up the point to cover behind LoS wait for them to come in then fight them but if they are going to burst you give up again for LoS... Ideally i would agree but rangers are slightly too strong in melee range having the melee pressure of warriors but a weapon that gives them stronger ranged pressure should they needed it thats kind of a problem.
Damage modes need to be put in check, Plasma needs to go, Block needs reductions, so its literally not better than warrior block (thats a problem imo)
your solutions to beating rangers are all mostly based around LoS which means they can do as they please movement wise and unless you have a port that ignores LoS (all classes dont have this) then ideally the advantage will just never be yours just LoS 4head. Don't mind the pet coming after you or anything etc.
Rangers are strong and this guide gives good tips how ever this does not in anyway mean that they dont need reductions in some areas for the general health of the game. I dont agree with leaving rangers / soul beast in their current state considering they undeniably do have a out right mechanical advantage in the most common ranger builds.
Ranger is not the only issue but simply saying its a L2P issue and trying to write it off as that alone is not the truth either and deep down you surely must know that. ITs like saying scourge on PoF launch was a L2P issue just don't stand in shade zone/shade range **"Just use 1200+ range attacks 4head"** No it was mechanically superior because a shade instantly melted players with no tell and not every class had range skills to deal with it and while rangers and soul beast are not nearly that bad most of your solutions as a L2P issue do take this kind of rout of approach.
Again good tips here heck some of the best tips any player has ever given.. it just does not excuse the fact that changes still need to be made.
-
Gonna say no because Raids are already such a niche part of the game. if there is going to be a legendary cape it should be obtainable in more ways than just raids alone. IT should be something all players can work for regardless of what game mode they prefer to play.
-
> @"FalsePromises.6398" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Should be no reason why core necro is so behind but people will argue its in a ok spot.
> > People only say core its in a ok spot because its played a bit more now but not because anything changed to make it better.
> > Its only played a bit more because scourge is not viable without a pre-made group to protect it and have moved on to core condi cause its the only other condi boon hate option.
>
> Now, hate me all you want for saying this, but I do believe core necromancer is in an at the very least an okay spot. Okay is in my opinion the general consensus, and slightly strong is debateable but only in some LF generation aspects. Anyway, back to slightly less than okay spot, core necromancer has some rather powerful abilities and can arguably outperform scourge, and it lies at the capabilities of unholy martyr, which is gained when taking core because you're no longer obligated to take transfusion for self sustain and can take curses alongside it for some good pressure, allowing you to consider more selfish traits. It's true, nothing REALLY changed, but when scourge fell out of style and core necro was taken up again and they started using blood alongside the old terrormancer style, unholy martyr became a very well designed sustained combat passive, allowing necromancers to now stand a chance against sc/p condi mirages and thieves alike (largely due to the reveal of DS5 on the thief/PU core mesmer counterplay). My only grievance against core necromancer as is is largely the fact foot in the grave doesn't apply stability or at the very least stunbreak on leaving shroud, or that shroud itself has no baseline stunbreaks in its bar, which allows other classes to play with necros like a hacky sack in shroud. If one REALLY wants to argue that necromancer is in a bad spot, that largely lies at the feet of dependency on speed runes due to sheer lack of mobility, but otherwise necromancer definitely has an at least somewhat viable kit. I find myself very capable when I play necromancer, unless its against heralds or rangers (class counters) or having a tedious fight against warriors (because FGJ/magebane tether are way too strong might generation when might heals and grants endurance back). Way I see it, core necromancer could definitely use more skills akin to spectral ring and possibly projectile destroy fields as weapon skills (which I personally feel could be given as changes to staff on necromancer, adding more ward-like abilities and projectile destroys to make it a true defensive weapon at the cost of losing marks), but otherwise they're at the very least in a decent spot. I feel like with core blood terrormancer, I'm more capable as a duelist and self sustaining fighter than I've been in a long while.
If you ask me i kind of dont agree but i can kind of understand part of what you are coming from..
Core necromancer would be in a ok spot if everyone else was at that same level but they are not. Realistically almost every other profession and their elites have not been aggressively balanced to the aspect that necromancer has been which is why even after all these years it still has not widened its boon table via elites or QoL changes, has no way of endurance restoration, no invulns, no true blocks, and its mobility is still super limited. Anet has kept their core value from launch day with how they balance the necromancer and simply not really added much to it. ITs a concept that would work well if other professions were not boosted with power creep but so long as others are boosted it will always be behind because in their eyes it must to be a damage soaker and be slow. Anet has a bad habit of not letting go of old values that could ideally make the game far better which is why it took them 7 years to do game mode skill splits.
To speak up on Unholy.
Unholy M. is good if you are alone and used under selfish applications yes because you remove the risk and only gain the reward. The moment you go into combat with allies it can quickly become a hinderance depending on what you pull. If the skill was built to be selfish only then i might agree its a powerful tool but its meant to be the supportive trait that bring some benefit to the necromancer (a risk for reward style support trait). The issue is that damage is off the wall right now and you would never want to really use this in a team fight application. Should you pull burn stacks while you already have burn stacks rip..... etc is just one example. Its not well designed because people use it for selfish reasons when its really meant to be a supportive tool that also streamlines into the xfering conditions kinda deal but conditions and damage is too nuts and too fast right now for this to really be practical so in a way the trait is more used for an entirely different reason than what it is designed. Also the fact that supportive traitlines work as means for better self sustain than the self sustain traitlines IS A MASSIVE ISSUE. This happens across almost every profession. IF you need more sustain you dont take your own personal defensive line you take the supportive line and use it selfishly. I wont go too far into that though thats another topic that i personally think anet should address in the future.
I wont disagree that necromancer at its core has a few good tools and even a few great ones but i wouldnt really consider it in a good place considering it was not used much until anet obliterated scourge with the wvw shade change. ITs used because there are no other viable options necromancer condi/boon hate that can fill that role when you play solo. Scourge requires you to be in a premade basically to work in spvp right now cause its risk far out-scales its reward.
TLDR Version
Unholy is kind of a solo gimmick only and can fall off hard in team fight situations though (especially if your team is taking heavy condi application.)
Necro would be really in a ok spot if everyone else was dropped back a bit from power-creep and just mechanical superiority.
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said:
> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:
> > > > > > > > > Maybe people could stop arguing over semantics and word choice when they both really think the same thing but just keep slamming their head against a brick wall for...reasons.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we just acknowledge that soulbeast burns a ton of cooldowns to output beefy damage but suffers a pretty suitable amount of downtime and vulnerability for doing so, and has more modifiers scattered about so people see 'kitten there's no boons to justify this'? Yadda yadda could use some shaves, could use some changes to adjust the '1-shot' builds that aren't actually 1-shots but for the love of god don't nitpick.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TLDR the things ranger has to do to 'boom' people for 10k mauls is exploitable. Please go test for yourself how much it takes to reach a 10k maul. Really, I'm fine with the way maul is atm, mostly (why does it give attack of opportunity when it misses and out of combat?)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" I think it was you who made that vid w/the Diviner soulbeast setup? Pretty fun - wish there was a condi amulet that has conc xD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Edit: I'm still trying to reproduce that maul.I'm barely reaching 14k with beast mastery, marksmanship, oppressive superiority from slb, a CC beforehand, fury, and attk of opportunity procced. Zerk amulet and scholar.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > why rangers players think that is ok to hit more than 5k with any skill?
> > > > > > > > also 14k for a 4s cd skill is over the top
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes because rangers are the only class that can hit more than 5k. /s
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What a good straw man. You attack the one dude who says something wrong and think it acquits rangers from being able to do very decent damage from ranged and from melee while also having a pet to bait out cds for you while having insane reset potential. You will do anything to avoid nerfs on your class even though you want others to be nerfed. So many people have called you out on your faulty logic in this thread including
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - you suggesting similar nerfs that you argue would be harder nerfs yet would be non issues (lower duration block rather than loner cooldown)
> > > > > > - you recording a video of your attacks doing little damage but refusing to include all of the modifers that any normal ranger would get in a real match
> > > > > > - you cherry picking things other classes do better than your class such as holding nodes for weaver, doing interupts for thief, or doing damage for rev, but then refusing to acknowledge all of the things ranger can do better than those classes or even that rangers can do almost as much as those classes but also fulfill multiple roles
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please stop spamming walls of text to drown out any possible disagreements because no one has the time to address every single logical fallacy you use. My ranger nerf suggestions were VERY light. You should be more prone to compromise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edit: you also literally said you didnt watch any of the other parts of the video so you saw i wanted ranger to be nerfed and assumed i wasnt nerfing anything else even though the ranger section is very short?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
> > > > > 2. Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)
> > > > > 3. Reduce GS4's block duration to 2 seconds.
> > > > > 4. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.
> > > > > 5. Remove Plasma from Siamoth.
> > > > Tbh i feel like this would just be the start of where the need to go.
> > > >
> > > > Gazelle's charge might even need to deal no damage basically get the "rampage effect" ITs a cc that even with your self nerf would still do a ton of damage. Either take the cc away and reduce the damage a bit or keep the cc and cut the damage down completely. Even the command skill is a cc that deals tons of damage which they have established the idea of removing things like this. I just wanted to point that out.
> > > >
> > > > Generally do still think that stealth access for ranger is higher than it should be but if plasma is removed from play and the block is reduced then it might be ok. Plasma does give them too wide of a boon table for literally everything they have in a single kit build and the damage mods are insane. Right now the loop of stealth access, blocking, and boons providing sustain ontop of the damage, sheer number of cc's between the ranger and its pet overall its a bit much its got to be one of the biggest offenders right now in terms of being imbalanced.
> > > >
> > > > Also lets not slide by "We heal as one" too... depending on if plasma is removed or not thats up for debate too. I would consider that more busted than Troll Unguent.
> > >
> > > WHaO heals less than TU so it trades worse in longer fights in exchange for some boon duration.
> > >
> > > But yeah the rest of that would fix most of the stronger stuff with ranger imo.
> >
> > The issue is not the healing its the boon share effect combined with some soul beast traits but like i said this might depend on plasma. there will still be some niche moments where i see WHaO easily outperforming TU still.
> >
> > Both WHaO and TU are very very good healing skills actually i personally dont think TU needs changes i would argue that WHaO is the bigger issue just because its secondary effect is so strong for a healing skill and becomes super potent with Soul Beast equipped.
>
> Idk as long as the cast times for heal skills (regardless of class) are reliably interruptible, I don't have an issue with them. Hence why I want TU to have a longer cast time. The boon duration was already cut from WHaO so it relies on the player taking concentration on their amulet + boonshare to make any real use of it. The base 3s of boons you get from WHaO really isn't noticeable at all in a fight. If anything, I'd argue that WHaO could receive some slight healing power increases to better compete against TU, but it's not super necessary at the moment.
I dont think the heals should be the same because it removes the risk for reward.
Risk of healing over time for more hp vs instant quick heal thats lesser.
WHaO should not be near the same value of healing as TU with good reason. Anet needs to stop removing risk from the game and giving all reward for free most professions already are guilty of this in so many ways its not even funny.
-
> @"Vallun.2071" said:
> > @"Cheeseball C.8395" said:
> > 56:25 "so basically another issue here, just like lightning strike, is core necros have a instant cast fear!"
> >
> > ... kept watching and the only reason for nerf suggestion was just because it's instant? Then by that logic nerf thief steal to have a visual cast time rather than being instant lol.
> >
> > The reaper build i use for 5v5s are very unfavorable for 1v1s and reaper is one of the easiest classes to 2v1 which is why it's generally bad to take 1v1s on reaper. It's ability to gank hard high risk high reward is part of it's identity as a team main damage role which takes part in stopping bunker metas from emerging. People generally don't cry for reaper nerfs because it is the class with the obvious weakness of no access to complete damage nullification other than their base 2 dodges hence making them being targets the more consistent to not lose value from.
> >
> > The class balance suggestions from the video seems to be taken for more of a 1v1 type balance which the game isn't meant for. I couldn't find any explanations on how any of these suggestions would effect other classes as a whole. I think the concept of conquest, the impact to the meta, and the weakness of all classes should be considered and explained to make these suggestions a little more convincing. A true balance to 1v1 is literally making every class the same and I think people would rather have the classes all have their own identity.
> >
> > The title should be Changes "i want" rather than putting "WE" because there was not any mention of anyone else's opinions on their classes and others.
> >
> >
>
> except the difference is that steal does nothing until 6 traits are devoted to it and it is the main class mechanic of thief, meanwhile necros have an instant cast 3 sec cc that ticks damage, thieves dont even take deadly arts anymore, thats how irrelevant steal is and it does no damage now and only a boon steal and 1 sec daze. Your arguments seem to be changes only you want to prevent because youre a biased necro main. Meanwhile I play your class better than you and still want my main to be nerfed more. Good attempt at a discussion, but just skipping to the necro part and assuming i dont nerf anything else (btw i nerf thief harder in my suggestions than i do necro since you didnt watch) isn't really proving much.
You do realize that the skill doom is not a base 3 second fear even at point blank range. What are you even talking about dude. Lets not act like people dont have to invest in traits to make that strong. But maybe you didnt know that....
Ill be honest it almost sounds like you are biased against necro because you are a ele main, and that its one of the few professions where necromancer takes the advantage due to its ability to chill which is generally known for being able to mess up ele no matter what build it takes.
Its not a matter of if you talked about nerfing others or not its more so that you dont understand some of the stuff you are even talking about (or you just worded it super poorly) You also do not seem to understand the old core values that anet has aggressively balanced necro and held it to for the past years even up till changes that come now which is why it has no invulns, extra dodges, limited boon table which is mostly just self might, and almost every profession has something it can do to abuse necros in 1v1 with ele being the weakest contender. Necro is literally weak in a 1v1 because it lacks the dueling tools every other profession has in a 1v1 situations. Its strongest in 2v1 situations and any situation where it and its allies outnumber the other. You cant understand how easy it is to abuse necromancer in pvp till you really commit to playing one and get cc'ed around a point for the entirety of the fight by pre-made teams on coms.
You even called out Chill of Death (lesser spinal shivers) which is a trait most people generally dont run anymore that trait fell off hard as soon as it was nerfed to the point it cannot crit. You also called out this trait for several times in granting might which it does not do (or again your wording is poor). Ideally the core idea for necro was that if it got you to 50% hp it traits were designed to start giving it the advantage but getting them to the 50% point was always suppose to be the hard part.
If you want to nerf doom thats fine but we should also expect nerfs for instant attuenement swapping and air scepter 2 and 3 etc.
If you want to nerf reapers might buffing thats fine but expect others to have even less might than necro/reaper after the fact considering its the one thing necro/ reaper is good at everyone else should still have much less that includes ele.
If you want to nerf reapers attack speed then expect everyone else to also be put back down to that level or just fix the problem and make reapers base speed proper for 2020 but not quickness level fast then the quickness can be removed.
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"Vallun.2071" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:
> > > > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:
> > > > > > > Maybe people could stop arguing over semantics and word choice when they both really think the same thing but just keep slamming their head against a brick wall for...reasons.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can we just acknowledge that soulbeast burns a ton of cooldowns to output beefy damage but suffers a pretty suitable amount of downtime and vulnerability for doing so, and has more modifiers scattered about so people see 'kitten there's no boons to justify this'? Yadda yadda could use some shaves, could use some changes to adjust the '1-shot' builds that aren't actually 1-shots but for the love of god don't nitpick.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TLDR the things ranger has to do to 'boom' people for 10k mauls is exploitable. Please go test for yourself how much it takes to reach a 10k maul. Really, I'm fine with the way maul is atm, mostly (why does it give attack of opportunity when it misses and out of combat?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" I think it was you who made that vid w/the Diviner soulbeast setup? Pretty fun - wish there was a condi amulet that has conc xD
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edit: I'm still trying to reproduce that maul.I'm barely reaching 14k with beast mastery, marksmanship, oppressive superiority from slb, a CC beforehand, fury, and attk of opportunity procced. Zerk amulet and scholar.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why rangers players think that is ok to hit more than 5k with any skill?
> > > > > > also 14k for a 4s cd skill is over the top
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes because rangers are the only class that can hit more than 5k. /s
> > > >
> > > > What a good straw man. You attack the one dude who says something wrong and think it acquits rangers from being able to do very decent damage from ranged and from melee while also having a pet to bait out cds for you while having insane reset potential. You will do anything to avoid nerfs on your class even though you want others to be nerfed. So many people have called you out on your faulty logic in this thread including
> > > >
> > > > - you suggesting similar nerfs that you argue would be harder nerfs yet would be non issues (lower duration block rather than loner cooldown)
> > > > - you recording a video of your attacks doing little damage but refusing to include all of the modifers that any normal ranger would get in a real match
> > > > - you cherry picking things other classes do better than your class such as holding nodes for weaver, doing interupts for thief, or doing damage for rev, but then refusing to acknowledge all of the things ranger can do better than those classes or even that rangers can do almost as much as those classes but also fulfill multiple roles
> > > >
> > > > Please stop spamming walls of text to drown out any possible disagreements because no one has the time to address every single logical fallacy you use. My ranger nerf suggestions were VERY light. You should be more prone to compromise.
> > > >
> > > > Edit: you also literally said you didnt watch any of the other parts of the video so you saw i wanted ranger to be nerfed and assumed i wasnt nerfing anything else even though the ranger section is very short?
> > >
> > > 1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
> > > 2. Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)
> > > 3. Reduce GS4's block duration to 2 seconds.
> > > 4. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.
> > > 5. Remove Plasma from Siamoth.
> > Tbh i feel like this would just be the start of where the need to go.
> >
> > Gazelle's charge might even need to deal no damage basically get the "rampage effect" ITs a cc that even with your self nerf would still do a ton of damage. Either take the cc away and reduce the damage a bit or keep the cc and cut the damage down completely. Even the command skill is a cc that deals tons of damage which they have established the idea of removing things like this. I just wanted to point that out.
> >
> > Generally do still think that stealth access for ranger is higher than it should be but if plasma is removed from play and the block is reduced then it might be ok. Plasma does give them too wide of a boon table for literally everything they have in a single kit build and the damage mods are insane. Right now the loop of stealth access, blocking, and boons providing sustain ontop of the damage, sheer number of cc's between the ranger and its pet overall its a bit much its got to be one of the biggest offenders right now in terms of being imbalanced.
> >
> > Also lets not slide by "We heal as one" too... depending on if plasma is removed or not thats up for debate too. I would consider that more busted than Troll Unguent.
>
> WHaO heals less than TU so it trades worse in longer fights in exchange for some boon duration.
>
> But yeah the rest of that would fix most of the stronger stuff with ranger imo.
The issue is not the healing its the boon share effect combined with some soul beast traits but like i said this might depend on plasma. there will still be some niche moments where i see WHaO easily outperforming TU still.
Both WHaO and TU are very very good healing skills actually i personally dont think TU needs changes i would argue that WHaO is the bigger issue just because its secondary effect is so strong for a healing skill and becomes super potent with Soul Beast equipped.
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"Vallun.2071" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:
> > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:
> > > > > Maybe people could stop arguing over semantics and word choice when they both really think the same thing but just keep slamming their head against a brick wall for...reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can we just acknowledge that soulbeast burns a ton of cooldowns to output beefy damage but suffers a pretty suitable amount of downtime and vulnerability for doing so, and has more modifiers scattered about so people see 'kitten there's no boons to justify this'? Yadda yadda could use some shaves, could use some changes to adjust the '1-shot' builds that aren't actually 1-shots but for the love of god don't nitpick.
> > > > >
> > > > > TLDR the things ranger has to do to 'boom' people for 10k mauls is exploitable. Please go test for yourself how much it takes to reach a 10k maul. Really, I'm fine with the way maul is atm, mostly (why does it give attack of opportunity when it misses and out of combat?)
> > > > >
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" I think it was you who made that vid w/the Diviner soulbeast setup? Pretty fun - wish there was a condi amulet that has conc xD
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: I'm still trying to reproduce that maul.I'm barely reaching 14k with beast mastery, marksmanship, oppressive superiority from slb, a CC beforehand, fury, and attk of opportunity procced. Zerk amulet and scholar.
> > > >
> > > > why rangers players think that is ok to hit more than 5k with any skill?
> > > > also 14k for a 4s cd skill is over the top
> > >
> > > Yes because rangers are the only class that can hit more than 5k. /s
> >
> > What a good straw man. You attack the one dude who says something wrong and think it acquits rangers from being able to do very decent damage from ranged and from melee while also having a pet to bait out cds for you while having insane reset potential. You will do anything to avoid nerfs on your class even though you want others to be nerfed. So many people have called you out on your faulty logic in this thread including
> >
> > - you suggesting similar nerfs that you argue would be harder nerfs yet would be non issues (lower duration block rather than loner cooldown)
> > - you recording a video of your attacks doing little damage but refusing to include all of the modifers that any normal ranger would get in a real match
> > - you cherry picking things other classes do better than your class such as holding nodes for weaver, doing interupts for thief, or doing damage for rev, but then refusing to acknowledge all of the things ranger can do better than those classes or even that rangers can do almost as much as those classes but also fulfill multiple roles
> >
> > Please stop spamming walls of text to drown out any possible disagreements because no one has the time to address every single logical fallacy you use. My ranger nerf suggestions were VERY light. You should be more prone to compromise.
> >
> > Edit: you also literally said you didnt watch any of the other parts of the video so you saw i wanted ranger to be nerfed and assumed i wasnt nerfing anything else even though the ranger section is very short?
>
> 1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
> 2. Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)
> 3. Reduce GS4's block duration to 2 seconds.
> 4. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.
> 5. Remove Plasma from Siamoth.
Tbh i feel like this would just be the start of where the need to go.
Gazelle's charge might even need to deal no damage basically get the "rampage effect" ITs a cc that even with your self nerf would still do a ton of damage. Either take the cc away and reduce the damage a bit or keep the cc and cut the damage down completely. Even the command skill is a cc that deals tons of damage which they have established the idea of removing things like this. I just wanted to point that out.
Generally do still think that stealth access for ranger is higher than it should be but if plasma is removed from play and the block is reduced then it might be ok. Plasma does give them too wide of a boon table for literally everything they have in a single kit build and the damage mods are insane. Right now the loop of stealth access, blocking, and boons providing sustain ontop of the damage, sheer number of cc's between the ranger and its pet overall its a bit much its got to be one of the biggest offenders right now in terms of being imbalanced.
Also lets not slide by "We heal as one" too... depending on if plasma is removed or not thats up for debate too. I would consider that more busted than Troll Unguent.
-
> @"Anchoku.8142" said:
> Rather than worry over shouts' abilities in 1v1, I worry over Core's 1v1. Core power builds should be better than they are.
This
Still though... gotta wish at least the shout trait was better the hp leech is just kind a pointless even in the base case situations of hitting all 5 targets its effect is minimal. Would have much preferred lf on hit or lesser "nothing can save you" on hitting a blocking foe to really drive home reapers lethal slasher theme.
Tbh anet kind of needs to let go of some of their old core launch day values thats keeping them aggressively balancing necro meanwhile letting others run around unchecked. It is a tad bit frustrating.
Should be no reason why core necro is so behind but people will argue its in a ok spot.
People only say core its in a ok spot because its played a bit more now but not because anything changed to make it better.
Its only played a bit more because scourge is not viable without a pre-made group to protect it and have moved on to core condi cause its the only other condi boon hate option.
-
gw2 is on the faster end of combat in most games i have played the only ones that get faster than this are beat em up style games where you literally smash you keys for combos and it looks cool but for the most part its brainless fun. not that there is anything wrong with having brainless fun form time to time it can be a good way to relax tbh.
Anyone who says games like WoW ifs faster combat than gw2 i can never understand that game is so slow it puts me to sleep and i played warlock which could move around for the majority of its instant cast afflictions and it still felt too slow.
-
> @"Lily.1935" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Oddly enough and i might get judged for this i think ranger would fit the Samurai theme better than both rev and warrior personally. Rangers whole weapon kit is practically perfectly themed to the tools they would have used i think.
> > I guess warrior would a close second.
> >
> > Rangers wear lighter armor though and can also use a greatsword (which i think has more technique than warrior gs in its skill design) and a bow.
> > They also use other tools like daggers and knives and other throwable weapons (axes)
> >
> > I feel like if mounted combat was a thing they would be one of the best equiped for it too.
> >
> > If however i had to pick between only rev and warrior i would say warrior.
> >
>
> Samurai did often have heavy armor but it wasn't nearly as defensive as what we saw in the west with the Knights. Japan had poor access to quality steel so medium armor would make sense for sure.
>
> The reason Japanese blacksmiths had to fold their steel so many times was to get any amount of strength from it. Chinese and European steel was just higher quality with fewer impurities.
>
> Now modern Japan swords and modern European swords are about the same in quality due to the wider spread access of steel and the maintaining of a standard of quality. However Japanese Katanas are typically shorter than European swords. But that all depends on the type of sword. Japan did have long swords of course but I can't recall their name.
I dont know how much stuff is true so ill just assume you have dug into this as a hobby and are correct.
But what I wanted to say is that in some movies (which are often not always correct with details) The armor always looked like it was a mix between medium and heavy but maybe that was just their version of heavy armor. I honestly would not know.
While i guess rangers stylish moves and weapon kit still fit a bit more imo i guess the armor type would make warrior more fitting.
Thanks for sharing though! :+1:
-
Thief if you are really really good or really really bad at it is by fare one of the funniest things you can see to watch it win or fail.
Now if you mean funnest thing as in whats the most enjoyable that kind of depends on you everyone will give you a different answer based on their own preferences but only you know yourself the best.
Make one of each if you can and before too long you will know which ones you find the most fun to play. Try them in different content modes like pvp or pve etc
-
> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > I mean techncially speaking mesmer has good condition clear skills people just dont use them thus people make the claim that they have bad condi clear.
> > Its more like condi clear is not important enough to invest in alone because the game gives you a offensive tool that can also be used with the defensive aspect clearing condi.
> >
> > Technically speaking there is
> > - Inspiration line which offers lesser condi clear via shatters and phantom summoning
> > - Null Field which offers slow over time condi clear
> > - Mantra of Resolve/Power Cleanse which is more like burst condition removal
> > - Arcane thievery of course which acts as burst removal and offensive pressure tool
> > - There is technically even elusive mind but people dont use that either
> >
> > Realistically if you built around being condition resistant as a mesmer you would fair just as well as anyone else.
>
> Interesting view and it's true that mesmer can have good condiclear but :
> In your list, the real condi clear are mantra of resolve and arcane thievery because no condi class, even on condi applying by power class put only 1 condi that null field or inspiration can overclear.
> Taking inspiration mean dropping too much pressure thoses day and the survivability you gain with this traitline is outpressured by other on point fighter it's even more visible when you have to use your shatter not to CC/pressure but to condiclear.
This is the whole issue i have with this game and its balance right now. You dont need to invest in things like this and that the best defense is offense. Anet has pushed this far harder than they should have which has lead to such an imbalanced state of the game. Well that combined with the fact that pvp was tied to pve balance so it became impossible to nerf things once boosted without the community who mains that class going into a riot in both pve and pvp.
Ideally you should be forced to make choices like that dropping pressure for survivability. Anet has made the game reach a point where people dont take defensive tools if it means giving up damage because damage pressure is more reliable as means of staying alive There is no forced balance between the two and kill potential is too high. There are very few professions who are balanced around the idea of taking one thing for the loss of something else they often have the most counters because they are forced to give up one thing for another. Their builds dont let them cover 90% of situations only about a modest 30-40% of situations at best.
> Mean in most encounter it's better to pressure the opponent than to let him do his best rotation output, you will take overall less damage/condi.
This is fact, i agree and dislike that the game has pigeon-toed into this method being the only method worth using.
> Now when you look at other class condiclear : they either have multiple effects or are in traitline which will not let them do 0 pressure or are in trailine who give them real sustain (with better HPS or boons for example.). So in the current environnement, mesmer condiclear can be resumed at taking MoR or not.
Im not going to argue that mesmer condi clear is on equal footing with everyone elses cause in truth it might not be exactly equal but i also wont reject it like it does not exists and that be the sole means for why AT must be clssified as "the only condi clear" in players eyes.
Not every aspect of a professions kit especially right now can be equal to another professions kit aspects. For example mesmer has advantages that other professions do not currently and we cant write of those aspects on other professions as garbage though just because mesmer does it better or pretend they dont exists.
>
> > That said its not that mesmers have garbage condi clear, its more so that people refuse to accept the other tools because it means trading something they dont want to lose which is how the game should technically be.
> > I dont think its fair to say mesmer has garbage condi clear when there are plenty of tools that can make mesmers very resistant to condi should they choose to accept them.
> Which isn't accurate when you face professions that haven't drawback on their condiclear access.
Depends on which professions you look at technically speaking most professions do have draw backs for taking condi clear access you just dont see them for a few reasons.
1 anet has allowed their kits to cover condi clear too well while letting them keep their offensive power through other means although technically they still do have more proper lines that are designed specifically for dealing with condi and would actually enforce a trade off if used.
2 people do exactly what you said they say "screw it" and go with the best offense is the best defense strat.
If Rev for example wants condi clear there are clear cut draw backs. They have to take completely different legends to even get minimal clear or resistances to condi. And this is probably one of the most proper example in the game of how it should be but of course they go with the "screw it" method and just risk it all and it works against most professions most of the time.
I think the lack of enforcing defensive investment and enforcing high pressure offense has imbalanced the game which is why we see so many people complaining about different things here.
Generally speaking if someone wants decent condi removal they should have to invest in it. Its silly that anet allows most professions to not invest in defensive traits or stats and have such high sustain because of utility skills covering the weak points in those builds far too well or because one profession can instantly kill/lockdown another before it has ample time to really retaliate.
If its one thing i know about games.... its not enjoyable getting to not play and thats what his meta encourages..
kill em quickly
keep em locked down with cc so that they cannot use skills
Do your damage while evading which does not allow em to hit you back.
All of these things have been some of the most hot topics over the recent months in pvp.
In a nutshell.... anet really should aim to take a different route than what the game encourages right now without slipping back into the bunker meta. Some professions and elites have already been hard balanced into that but the majority have not.
-
Im mostly only going to comment on his thoughts on necro as thats what i have the most personal exp with although i do play other professions.
Well.....
Gets feared from a skill for 3s that has no animation to it...
Its core but ok....
That skill does not have base 3s fear duration but ok....
Gonna need some massive dives across the board on everyone else before i can even really think of how changing Doom would really be any kind of fair considering its core necros main offensive cc and defensive tool. Core has nothing else to make you say "let me breath" giving some one a raw chance to know they can just avoid that 1 thing is going to be problematic in itself. This comes down to the bring everyone down to exactly the same level as that or dont bother doing it at all.
Reaper auto wins after 50% hp cause spinal shiver.... people run this still?
For a second i thought this video was about 2 years old.... spinal does not generate might that would be Siphoned Power which has no effect until a foe falls under 50%
I might agree with reapers damage being a bit to high only if once again everyone else gets brought down to that level. If you think the power of fresh air weaver is ok and it just needs more counterplay i would say the same for reaper except reaper already does have tons ways people actively use to counterplay it. Even the self buff might on reaper generally is not that good it only happens with the spite line and only when in shroud or hitting someone under 50% hp there is no instant ramp to 15-20 stacks like warrior. IT actually takes it time to ramp up to high levels of might. That said i would be ok with might loss in exchange fro opening up its boon table a bit more. Generally the more self might a profession has the smaller its boon table should be and the bigger its boon table the less self might it should have imo. Which makes me ask why guardians and some ele's can self buff so much might considering their much wider boon table.
In terms with quickness removal i would be ok with that too so long as the base speed of the skills go up a bit. Slowing the skills down is ok. Slowing them down to 2014 base speeds in 2020 will make it ride on line of unviability. Base reaper attacking speeds are just a deal breaker especially if we are talking about cutting back the might, ferocity, and mobility options like speed rune etc. In the time it takes reaper to get to its target it wont be able to attack it.
Some how he has the idea that reaper is too oppressive in a 1v1 which is usually where necro in general is the weakest. IF he mains ele i can see why he would say that as necro in general actually takes the edge over ele due to chill its one of the few match ups that necro just out right has the advantage over
Im shocked that he actually wanted to put scourge back in the right direction even if thats a short term fix till anet can find a better long term solution. Im shocked!!!
-
> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do.
> > > >
> > > > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered.
> > > > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent.
> > > >
> > > > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home)
> > >
> > > Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random.
> > >
> > > Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it.
> >
> > Because sorry if i don't trust some stranger whom i don't really know over internet communication to be 100% correct. (you could be correct but this is not a promise) and you cannot tell me in anyway where i wouldnt be doubtful based on my personal exp with the skills over the past several years. The only thing that you could technically do to make me side with you would be getting a dev in here to confirm that it is infact random. To which if thats the case my reply would be "Thats pretty bad design"
> > Based on my experience these things are not random in fact they tend to be clear cut. For example well of power will continuously convert bleed into vigor over other conditions so long as you can reapply a bleed (as the most recent condition) before it pulses the next clear. IT will not randomly skip the bleed for another condition to convert into a boon randomly. As far as i know Corrupt boon seems to work the same way it hits the most recent boons applied going from left to right.
> >
>
> June 25th patchnotes when it changed:
> >Boon and Condition Conversion
> >Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.
>
> This is easy to test with Master of Corruption and just spamming yourself with condi as a necro and seeing which gets removed first. Spam the same two skills in the same order and the conditions will be removed in no specific order every time. It hasn't changed since. Literally test it for a while you'll see what I mean. Considering you'll only have 3~5 conditions on you at a time it may seem ordered but it really is random.
>
> > > Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill.
> > This part is fine and i think this to be true but your statements above not so much.
> >
> > I think you do not understand me though when i talk about most recent applications if a skill applies bleed then torment the foe will have bleed then torment
> > I a second skill is used that applies weakness and poison then now the order is from newest to oldest weakness, poison, bleed, torment
> > If you use the first skill again the order is still weakness, poison, bleed, torment....
> >
> > If the target wants to use a skill to convert 2 conditions into boons then only weakness and poison will be targeted, although the skill that last hit you technically applied more stacks of bleed and torment.
> >
> > The only time condition removal or converts to boons skip order is if the skill targets a specific type of condition. For example traits that remove movement imparting conditions or target only damaging conditions. Or only target a set hand full of conditions. Otherwise as far as i know its from most recent aka going from left to right with the left being the most recent condition and the right being the oldest condition.
> >
> > Even if more stacks of the oldest condition are added on it will not move to be the most recent condition applied unless its been removed somehow then reapplied.
> >
> >
>
> New stacks of a condition will push the old stacks all the way to the top of the bunch.
> From the wiki:
> >For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.
>
> Go use blood is power, then any other corruption skill, then use dagger 3. Take the shrouded removal trait and bleeding will be the condition removed. Or better yet, take master of corruption trait and do the following then do dagger 3, epidemic, corrupt boon. youve just gone bleeding>vuln>weakness>poison>bleeding. Or just make sure you use them in an order where bleeding is in the middle than use dagger 3.Shrouded removal will again remove bleeding. Even if its not the left to right stuff you're on about, its literally last in first out for generic removal.
>
> There are some condi builds currently and those int he past that would be so much more manageable if the conditions were applied in a different order. Like why the cripple from manifest sand shade was SO annoying, it was always getting pushed to the bottom of a 4 condi stack; Or why chill from reapers with bitter chill can get punishing since it will always be covered by vulnerability.
>
> The game is filled with random nuance like this. Like if a trait adds the condi to the skill tooltip it follows the normal order but if it ends up being on hit it falls somewhere else in the stack.
>
In any case ill still want to test it for myself when i get the chance cause my experience never has made it seem random. Its for the most part always seemed to follow an order in general if it really is random that seems like a poor design choice to make.
-
> @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> * Any profession that can self-buff 25 might.
> * Any profession that can front load a lot of condi damage.
> * Any profession where there are not trade offs between sustain and damage.
> * Any profession that can one shot with little to no counter play(specially from stealth).
> * Any profession that can have a ~75-100% uptime on the boons it applies.
Everyone in a nutshell not one profession is exempt from at least 1 thing on this list. While some others are offenders of multiple things on the list.
-
PvP
Just support please , new game modes not just mainly capture and hold... fix and balance professions..... forget swiss till all this other stuff is done imo.
PvE
More end game Rewards from Fractals, Strikes, and Raids you dont need to change some of these things just add more content to them in some cases. Fractals prove to be great mix of mechanics, fun, and lore openers a lot of players tend to enjoy these. It is a big mistake to stop producing fractals imo i hope the fractal team gets back on it. Strikes are nice but if you want people to play them there needs to be juicy rewards with realistic drop rates for committed player who are willing to grind these things daily. Dungeon content could be reworked to slowly introduce players into raids also if reworked could draw a lot more interest from existing players than raids are likely to.
In pve its not just about content but also bout rewards rewards need to be done right with realistic drop rates not drop rates to trap people playing for longer. ITs ok to go back and add more reward or collections when applicable in maps (like with sky-scale) how ever....
Grothmar daily rewards are good example of not to do drop rates ive opened roughly 130 khan ur stash things now (i know some people have opened more) and still got nothing good. This is a lot of time / money investment (which ever a player prefers to get the keys) for something with such an unrealistic drop rate.
WvW
Balance this and make wvw feel like a wvw mode
Make open area events in nutral zones for players to contest. More maps like desert borderlands or even edge of the mist would be more realistic for wvw maps than alpine or eternal which is what the wvw has kind of shoved itself into being mostly.
-
> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab.
> > > > >
> > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab.
> > > >
> > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way.
> > >
> > > Boon conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon , is **completely random**. Removal is LIFO unless the skill has some other priority like some boon and condi removal skills do.
> >
> > The only thing that keeps it feeling random is how fast other professions can reapply boons over the ones you generally want to hit. In the time you can cast corrupt boon followed by any other skill a profession might refresh its boons that were just converted meaning it feels random but based on my exp it seems to be based on whats on the far left in the line. Some one can correct me if im mistaken but thats how im pretty sure it works and thats why some times it can be impossible to cover stab to fear its just hard covered.
> > The same also applies to conditions being converted to boons for most skills its starts on the far left with what was most recently applied in other words if bleed is on the far left and poison is on the far right you will convert the bleed to vigor Most xfers also work this way far left from what was most recently applied are the ones that are sent.
> >
> > IF AT works this way will take some test (will do when i get home)
>
> Again no idea why you need further correction. I've explained how it works. One more time. Unless stated otherwise removal skills will be LIFO and all corruption and conversion skills, again unless stated otherwise, will convert boons and conditions at random.
>
> Literally on the patch they did with the conversion tables they stated it's random. Go and find it.
Because sorry if i don't trust some stranger whom i don't really know over internet communication to be 100% correct. (you could be correct but this is not a promise) and you cannot tell me in anyway where i wouldnt be doubtful based on my personal exp with the skills over the past several years. The only thing that you could technically do to make me side with you would be getting a dev in here to confirm that it is infact random. To which if thats the case my reply would be "Thats pretty bad design"
Based on my experience these things are not random in fact they tend to be clear cut. For example well of power will continuously convert bleed into vigor over other conditions so long as you can reapply a bleed (as the most recent condition) before it pulses the next clear. IT will not randomly skip the bleed for another condition to convert into a boon randomly. As far as i know Corrupt boon seems to work the same way it hits the most recent boons applied going from left to right.
> Conditions and boons are also applied in a specific order but not to go into too much depth they are applied in the order they read down a skill.
This part is fine and i think this to be true but your statements above not so much.
I think you do not understand me though when i talk about most recent applications if a skill applies bleed then torment the foe will have bleed then torment
I a second skill is used that applies weakness and poison then now the order is from newest to oldest weakness, poison, bleed, torment
If you use the first skill again the order is still weakness, poison, bleed, torment....
If the target wants to use a skill to convert 2 conditions into boons then only weakness and poison will be targeted, although the skill that last hit you technically applied more stacks of bleed and torment.
The only time condition removal or converts to boons skip order is if the skill targets a specific type of condition. For example traits that remove movement imparting conditions or target only damaging conditions. Or only target a set hand full of conditions. Otherwise as far as i know its from most recent aka going from left to right with the left being the most recent condition and the right being the oldest condition.
Even if more stacks of the oldest condition are added on it will not move to be the most recent condition applied unless its been removed somehow then reapplied.
-
> @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:
> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:
> > > > But at the same time, I agree with the sentiment that people should at least play around with the classes they want nerfed before coming to the forums, to see whether or not that flashy gameplay that just stomped you was someone being carried by their class
> > > [logs onto soul beast and fights you]
> > > :'D
> >
> > Nerf Soulbeast
> >
> >
>
> Have you fought a core necro though? I had one the other day hit for like **2K** with their shroud auto from forever away, so broken. Necro throwing out these chad autos compared to soulbeasts virgin rapid fire.
>
lmfao chad autos
-
Some what true
I just want anet to not make slip ups like hard balancing one or 2 professions and leaving the other 7 to dominate.
It would also help if they stop holding some professions to launch aspects when in reality its 2020 and that not all concepts from 2012 need to be applied in 2020 adjustments even more so when the rest of the game does not hold to the same standards and has moved forward over time.
But also people get hard nerfed and proclaim classes or skills are dead when realistically most of them are just balanced and no longer busted.
There are very few dead things in this game most of the things people say are dead are just balanced and balanced things dont compete with omega boosted meta things atm.
-
> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:
> But at the same time, I agree with the sentiment that people should at least play around with the classes they want nerfed before coming to the forums, to see whether or not that flashy gameplay that just stomped you was someone being carried by their class
[logs onto soul beast and fights you]
:'D
-
The three types of broken
Broken as in not balanced as in im overperfomlng and win because im mechanically superior
Firebrand (Just doing too much at once)
Weaver (removing some burn dps and stab from stances would prob make them tolerable as it would make ToF evasions punishable with well timed cc)
Soulbeast (bit too much boon access)
Rev (damage way too high)
Warrior generally (might synergy over-performing)
Mirage gets an honorable mention ?
Broken as in it dont work or is flawed in some way by initial design/ Poor choices over time have ruined it and will cost anet money and time to fix
Also Mirage
Core engi / Scrapper
Necro core stuff in general/Scourge
Broken as in its dead..... as in now "balanced" as in you can make it work but just refuse to play it cause why would you when you can be boosted by x elite/class
Chrono (mostly)
But also maybe Scrapper
-
> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > > > > > > > it should be noted that arcane thievery steals the entire duration of boons. it will always get stab.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Arcane Thievery frequently fails to get stab. In fact if there are four boons and stab is one of them, I can almost depend on the skill to NOT get stab.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Corrupt boon is very similar it mostly depends on how many boons are covering the stab. IF there are 4+ boons and stab is at the tail end of the line corrupt boon will not convert it. Stability is the last in the priority list for corrupt boon as far as i know. ITs just the fact that most classes dont have access to every boon in the game which makes it easier to hit on some professions and not so much on others. I want to think AT is the sam way.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've never had this problem with either skill. haven't used AT as much tho, but CB? lol. I've used it in zergs and it still gets stab. you're trippin.
> > > >
> > > > Depends on what you aimed at and what was most recently applied. if stab is one of the 3 boons to the far left it will get converted... if its beyond the 3rd from the left you will not get it. That said test ive looked up in the past show that as a priority boon stab is last in the list for corrupt boon. (thats probably not true today) For every time you do hit it in a zerg there are probably more times in which you also do not hit it. Just because someone has stab does not mean pressing corrupt boon means instant fear. My several years of necro play can account to that. Considering ive used the skill thousands of times i can confidently say that basically if the boon is covered by other boons you will not corrupt it.
> > >
> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90781/list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here
> > > Dunno if its 100% legit or not but from the read
> > > NECROMANCER
> > > Corrupt Boon - stab + swift + retal, resist + prot + vigor, aegis + might + alac, regen + quick + fury
> > > seems stab is hight on priority.
> > > but from what I played it doesnt seem to work like that, its annoying and timeconsuming to test anyways. Stuff like this should be provided by developers in the first place.
> >
> > Can confirm thats not real...... lol
> > The only time thats gonna be real is if stab is one of the 3 recent boons applied if it was the 4th or higher applied you just wont hit it.
> > As you said its strong against warriors and thats because warriors generally dont have more than swiftness might, fury, and stab, (rarely quickness) Thus its easier for corrupt boon to screw them 80% of the time.
> > If you look at firebrand who can have a wide plethora range of boons its often not as easy to hit because they can have almost everything in that list except alacrity. Should stab be sitting at the end of the line on the right you need to go through everything else to hit it.
> >
> > If anet actually prioritized corrupts to hit stab first 100% of the time necros would be in a much stronger place then they are right now. Basically people wouldnt dare bother using stab at all agains them cause it would mean near instant / free damage for landing any skill that corrupted a single boon.
>
> I don't know what to say. I can't recall CB ever failing to get stab.
Seems to be a bit of inconsistency between different people which means it really needs to be tested in different game modes and everything to be sure.
Prob should also put arcane to the test in the same aspect to see what it actually prioritizes on stealing
Permanently Delete Arcane Thievery
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"Poelala.2830" said:
> > > @"apharma.3741" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > I still think based on what CaL said i hope Arcane will see some changes i think its easily classed under the
> > > > > > **"skills that do too many things at once"** category
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **Arcane thievery's** actions per single use on successful hit.
> > > > > > Grants quickness
> > > > > > Inflicts slow
> > > > > > Steals up to 3 boons
> > > > > > xfers up to 3 conditions
> > > > > > is unblockable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even if we compare it to **Corrupt Boon**
> > > > > > Convers 3 boons to conditions
> > > > > > is Unblockable
> > > > > > Inflicts self poison
> > > > >
> > > > > Corruption is stronger than a transfer and a boonsteal. And corrupt boon was already seeing meta use before it became an ammo skill, which you left out.
> > > >
> > > > Thats subjective though. There is no blunt fact you can find on the wiki or anything ( im pretty sure) that factually states boon corruption is stronger than boon steal.
> > > > I personally would rather steal boons rather than corrupt them to be perfectly honest with you.
> > > >
> > > > The second part of your statement is not relevant to the things i listed as for why i listed them.
> > > > These are the things they are looking to change with upcoming balance which is why i even bothered to point it out. I didnt point it out based on meta use i pointed out by looking at how many actions a skill does per 1 use which is factual and has nothing to do with meta vs non meta. A skill being meta or not is not something included in its tool tip as for the number of effects it does at 1 time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Corrupt Boon:
> > > Removes 3 boons
> > > Applies 3 conditions
> > > Unblockable
> > > 18s cool down
> > > 2 charges.
> > >
> > > Arcane Thievery:
> > > Removes 3 boons
> > > Applies ~~3~~ 4 conditions
> > > Unblockable
> > > 25s cool down
> > >
> > > "but but...." So this is from the perspective of someone having both skills used on them, they're actually more similar than you think and 100% corrupt boon is stronger because you can control what conditions are put on the player. On the other hand the enemy can take some measures not to have stab corrupted but that's about it.
> > >
> > > "but apharma, nice bias there, you forgot the mesmer gets those 3 boons and quickness"
> > >
> > > Yeah I know but realistically it's a chaos mesmer running it, what are they getting they don't already have or that is actually useful? Quickness and the most annoying part about AT is the slow to be hit with which leads me back too...
> > >
> > > "Edit: What's the point of story time with apharma? It's a really buggy skill that needs fixing and didn't "need" quickness and slow adding."
> > >
> > > Also you should in generally use realistic examples, you're unlikely to always transfer 3 conditions and steal 3 boons, even when maximum usage is realised (when it doesn't random fail too) only 1 aspect is facilitating you usually.
> > >
> > > Edit: As I say the actual mechanic of AT needs fixing then it should lose the quickness and slow, then maybe look at the cool down bringing it in line with the power level CMC hopefully nerfs everything down to.
> >
> > I find it hilarious that you compare those two skills as if they exist in a vacuum. The ability to remove protection, regeneration, and stability while gaining those yourself and inflicting four conditions before 1-shotting or doing all the BS condi mesmer does is unique to mesmer only.
>
> AT doesnt prioritize these boons (ReGeNeRaTiOn AlErT!1!1!1) while CB 100% prioritize stability (cant speak for other boons as I didnt play necro too much to remember what else it prioritizing). Feel free to prove otherwise
Ill say it again thats false
Ive been using corrupt boon in a few corruption heavy builds the past few days instead of my lesser corrupt builds and on any profession that can apply stability and more than 3-4 other boons at the same time it can totally miss the stability due to other boon coverage. There was even an instance in which i converted every thing except stability. Please dont use false information.
I play necro daily and any time ive ever used corrupt boon on a boon heavy profession like guardian , some eles, rangers using plasma etc. Its totally possible to completely miss the stability while hitting 3 other boons on the bar with CB. So either im right and you are wrong or both of us are wrong and neither one of us is correct. There is no priority on CB hitting stability lets just get that right....
Dont be fooled into thinking CB auto hits stability every single time when the reality is most players dont even realize how much stability they pump out in their powercrept builds without a lot of boon coverage.
Warriors and Ele will say that necro fear is op and that necros have too many fears without realizing the source of that fear is the stability they keep spamming with almost no other boons sitting along side it making it easier to convert. IF stab is like the 1 of the only 3 boons on the bar of course you will land it with CB if its up there with 8 or 9 other boons there is a good chance you can totally miss it.