ZDragon.3046

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > why dont change mirage to "if you pick infinite horizon you have 1 or 2 less clones available? will be better than destroying it with one less dodge

> >

> > Probably because they want it to have more risk with the reward of a trait that provides both sustain for the clones and improved dps at the same time

> > Ideally Infinite horizon would have been better as a minor trait that always procs clones to perform their ambush attacks but does not let them avoid incoming damage so long as the caster is not stunned

> >

> > That should have been how it designed from the start.

> >

> > At the moment that trait provides a lot and now players want to come up with ideas to avoid only having 1 dodge yet didnt want other players input months ago and simply always told them to "just get good and learn to dodge ambush attacks"

> >

> > 3-5 months ago or longer...

> > **Other profession Players**

> > Nerf IH it does too much, Mirage should not be able to dodge while stunned.

> > **Mirage Players**

> > No its fine just learn 2 play. We have trade off cause we don't roll anymore we should be allowed to dodge while stunned. while our clones deal damage to you for landing your perfectly timed stun.

> >

> > Currently as of the notes seen above

> > **Mirage Players**

> > Just not let us dodge while CC'ed anymore but let us keep the endurance omg! WaHt R u DoInG!

> > **Other profession Players**

> > (silence)

> >

> > Like for real though i dont really know what to say anet really wants you to have the top level of skill to use this trait it seems is it fair? Prob not.... but was it fair months ago when everyone was trying to say "this is not fair"... no not really

>

> I think you're letting your grudge against Mirage get the better of you here. You're active enough in game and on the forum to know better.

Well do i have a grudge against mirage sure to some extent but so do many other people and with good reasons (most of the time) Those feelings certainly didnt just pop up from no where and while its likely mostly frustration with the players behind the elite some of it is certainly the elite itself. ITs the same on how people felt about scourge really. No amount of nerfing makes people not dislike scourge because of the community damage it caused being broken on release for 2 months.The damage is done and no amount of "nerfing" will make me feel different about mirage in competitive modes. Thats what being imbalanced does. Scourge suffered the same fate. Anet could nerf scourge even more and there would still be people who hold mass grudges against it just because of the damage it caused in a few short months. Mirage has had considerably more time than scourge has had to do its lasting damage which shape how i feel about it so sorry if i dislike it with a passion. Especially when people like to pretended it was fine. There were people who fought for IC mirage as an ok thing too and we know how nasty that got before anet could stop it.

However!!!! That has nothing to do with what i wrote. I even said that the change was pretty unfair but we can ignore all that i guess :anguished:

Moving on...

>

> **"We have trade off cause we don't roll anymore we should be allowed to dodge while stunned."**

>

> I don't know what posts you're reading, but I don't think I've ever seen a "Mirage player" insist that dodging while CC'd remain, let alone is healthy. In fact, quite the opposite. Removing this was probably one of the most common balance suggestions by Mirage mains going back through 2018, and even during pre-PoF feedback.

You might not have said such things but there are people who certainly did say and think its ok and should remain a thing and would happily say "because we dont roll or move as far" as the reasoning as to why its ok and call it a day.

> **"just get good and learn to dodge ambush attacks"

> "we should be allowed to dodge while stunned. while our clones deal damage to you for landing your perfectly timed stun."**

>

> I imagine there is some deliberate exaggeration here, but please direct me to any posts in the past year+ where Mirage mains said this. If anything, there have been ongoing discussions about the best way to reign in ambush damage and passive play, some of which I think you even partook in.

Not at all there were people who literally said things like this as part of their argument and if you think it sounds silly then be just as amazed as I was. Ive seen you post in some of the same threads where people were saying such crazy things either you dismissed those post or didn't see them but it was certainly something people liked to say. I dont feel like i need to point out the post to be honest any post that concerns Infinite horizon in the past year will have people who have said such things and those are easy enough to find you dont need me to point them out to you. Not to mention im not going to name call people who said such silly things is likely to just get my comments removed should someone feel the need to report me for doing it so i wont do that.

>

> Like, I know you're knowledgeable enough to see that halving endurance is not the way to go, but that old grudge kicks in and you can't express it without kicking a spec while it's down. Everyone has builds they dislike, but misrepresenting the community behind them is rather low in my opinion.

Once again i said it is unfair but i think you missed that because it came at the very end of my post but IH was never fair despite the outcries about it for months on in while anet refused to do anything about it. I think an endurance reduction is not a bad way to go however 50 might be too much. Considering mirrors are still a thing and vigor will still be a thing it wont be impossible at the idea that a mirage still wont be its dodges back fairly quickly.

Making the caster choose to burn an evasive for defense or offensive pressure is good choice. Note that evades that come with damage has been a major topic for the past few months and IH is one of the biggest offenders of that. I think this might be their attempts to tone down that kind of thing.

As a certain some one said in a video i watched that what they should do is keep it so that IH reduces max endurance but make it so that taking the trait caps endurance between 60-70 ish meaning you technically still have 1 dodge at any given time but leaves a bit of padding so that endurance restoration options are not totally wasted.

Also on a side note distortion is the only invuln that does not lock the skill bar which mirage gets to keep.... I think if they looked at this then maybe rolling back IH for different balancing ideas could at least be considered.

Its not really a misrepresentation of the community either sorry to say. Either this is a shock to you and you honestly have never seen it or you choose not to see it. I suppose at best i could have fixed my wording to say "some mirage players " So that it does not include generally all mirage mains but sorry to say there are other who dont look at things from a reasonable stand point.

Mostly Yes its going in the right direction its far from perfect but in the right direction.

I just hope they follow up with the clean up on some things like how if all cc skills are nerfed reworking them to have different bonus especially for the ones called out like

Reaper 5

Warrior Headbutt

Revenge Counter

Etc

The ones that before had hand damage modifiers on landing them which now have no reason to exists with the direction this game is moving. Its minor stuff like that that will need some reworking after the patch that i hope is already planned but just wont make it into this release

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Unless we see a mass culling to super speed and swiftness on everyone else too and a reduction in blink and leap skills then sure remove it other wise leave it as is.

> > Its a utility rune which can be countered by another person running it or any other kind of movement increase or stripping the swiftness.

> >

> > If you find it frustrating to have some one chasing your consider the following

> > - they might not be using speed runes (most professions dont need speed runes to stick to you like glue they have traits that up their movement speeds or lots of leaps)

> > - you need to strip the swiftness off them which removes the bonus entirely leaving them slow as mud.

> > - run the rune yourself so that the perks cancel each other out if you suspect some one has speed rune. IF you also run it then your speed is = to their speed meaning they cant gain on you when you kite and if they still do it means something else is allowing them to stick to you.

> >

> > Lets not default blame speedrunes just because you cant kite something when there are several factors at play for why someone might stick to you.

> >

> > I know for a fact revs and weavers dont need speed runes to stick to you both have traits and skills which up speed

> > Warriors dont really need it either (plethora of gap closers)

> > Soulbeast dont exactly need it either (gap closers and great ranged pressure +pet chase)

> > Holos likely dont need it but might use it.

> > Thieves dont need it. (plenty of gap close options)

> > About the only profession that needs speed rune to stick on you is Necro as they have almost no gap close and chill/cripple are not currently super effective at allowing natural gap close or kite

>

> That's why this is all about after the balance patch, not right now.

I know and considering what while damage is going to be lower mobility gains wont be meaning you if you have trouble kiting now you still will then against most professions. Ive read the notes and for he most part leaps, super speed, etc are not things being effected by the patch. In other words all the bit i said at the end is still going to be very much valid.

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> why dont change mirage to "if you pick infinite horizon you have 1 or 2 less clones available? will be better than destroying it with one less dodge

Probably because they want it to have more risk with the reward of a trait that provides both sustain for the clones and improved dps at the same time

Ideally Infinite horizon would have been better as a minor trait that always procs clones to perform their ambush attacks but does not let them avoid incoming damage so long as the caster is not stunned

That should have been how it designed from the start.

At the moment that trait provides a lot and now players want to come up with ideas to avoid only having 1 dodge yet didnt want other players input months ago and simply always told them to "just get good and learn to dodge ambush attacks"

3-5 months ago or longer...

**Other profession Players**

Nerf IH it does too much, Mirage should not be able to dodge while stunned.

**Mirage Players**

No its fine just learn 2 play. We have trade off cause we don't roll anymore we should be allowed to dodge while stunned. while our clones deal damage to you for landing your perfectly timed stun.

Currently as of the notes seen above

**Mirage Players**

Just not let us dodge while CC'ed anymore but let us keep the endurance omg! WaHt R u DoInG!

**Other profession Players**

(silence)

Like for real though i dont really know what to say anet really wants you to have the top level of skill to use this trait it seems is it fair? Prob not.... but was it fair months ago when everyone was trying to say "this is not fair"... no not really

Unless we see a mass culling to super speed and swiftness on everyone else too and a reduction in blink and leap skills then sure remove it other wise leave it as is.

Its a utility rune which can be countered by another person running it or any other kind of movement increase or stripping the swiftness.

If you find it frustrating to have some one chasing your consider the following

- they might not be using speed runes (most professions dont need speed runes to stick to you like glue they have traits that up their movement speeds or lots of leaps)

- you need to strip the swiftness off them which removes the bonus entirely leaving them slow as mud.

- run the rune yourself so that the perks cancel each other out if you suspect some one has speed rune. IF you also run it then your speed is = to their speed meaning they cant gain on you when you kite and if they still do it means something else is allowing them to stick to you.

Lets not default blame speedrunes just because you cant kite something when there are several factors at play for why someone might stick to you.

I know for a fact revs and weavers dont need speed runes to stick to you both have traits and skills which up speed

Warriors dont really need it either (plethora of gap closers)

Soulbeast dont exactly need it either (gap closers and great ranged pressure +pet chase)

Holos likely dont need it but might use it.

Thieves dont need it. (plenty of gap close options)

About the only profession that needs speed rune to stick on you is Necro as they have almost no gap close and chill/cripple are not currently super effective at allowing natural gap close or kite

Sorry but while there are indeed a buffs to specificly name them

Chill to the bone (lower coold down)

Axe 3 (now easier to trigger bonus strike)

Eternal life (replacing Foot in the Grave) which may or may not be seen as buff to some people

Lets not for get though chill to the bone lost its damage for the cd

Axe 1 and 2 lost damage for the gain on skill 3

No more foot in the grave means you have 0 options on breaking stuns other than with spectral walk, armor, wurm. which are main viable break stuns atm.

The majority of things are still big nerfs and easily overlooked.

- Less self might

- Pigeon toed into "Awaken the pain" in the spite line

- Weaker to CC than before even if CC's do no damage.

- Core shroud Doom now has a cast time

- Other professions with less boon + weaker corrupts = slower condi ramp speed

I would on paper currently say that with the loss of foot in the grave + the doom cast time core shroud is going to be comparable with scourge. IT will not be something super fit for solo play it will need a buddy as the moment it gets cc'ed in shroud its completely shut down.

Necromancer will now be more vulnerable to cc than it already was with only a whopping 4 skills now providing stability 2 of them being elite skills and one of them being in scourges kit which no one will run the only other skill is reaper 3 and thats now down to 3 seconds which wont amount to much in a team fight. Its enough to promise your soul spiral wont get interrupted by most professions and thats about it.

Generally necro will remain one of the stronger professions mainly because

- its play style is not being forced to change much if at all (not enough traits / skills changed to enforce this which is not really a bad thing)

- others now wont have insane damage allowing its ability to damage soak work more properly and be more equivalent to damage evasion.

- other players no longer having perma boon which lesses the need for all of its skills to corrupt boons and people can take less boon corrupt in their builds now.

Its not because of any buffs that necro will be a strong profession

Necro was held to anets core launch day standards unlike other professions which is why it had none of the other insane things the other professions have thus why it was not nerfed as much as some of the others because it didnt need to be.

At the moment from looking at anets notes Reaper holds the most promise of all the elites necro has and thats only because its currently still being allowed to keep Relentless Onslaught meaning its shroud is going to still be a threat if anything more after the patch than it is now. ITs actually going to be scary to let a reaper get within melee range on you if the allow the trait to go unchanged.

Overall people will have to accept that necro wont be as easy to kill after the patch (especially in small fights 1v1 / 2v2) and they wont like that feeling even-though thats the idea of how necro was designed to be. People will be so use to killing it quickly that when they cant do that they will deem it as op and needs more nerfing.

To be honest im more worried about firebrand and guardian in general when i look at the pvp notes and global notes for guardian im very concerned that firebrand will also still play the same with slightly less boon but will still be insanely strong.

Been kind of reading through alot of things here this morning

> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> * Executioner's Scythe: Reduced power coefficients from 2.0/2.6/3.2 to 0.01/0.015/0.02 (Above 50%/Below 50%/Below 25%). Increased stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds

I have to agree with a few other people here.

Why not just remove the damage mod from this skill entirely and allow it to hit up to 3 people in its aoe? the increase to above and below values are kind of wasted now.

Or making it increase the stun duration with the hp values

Is it because this would require global change or?????

Simply put most of these changes i am good with wont even lie tons of nerfs but it needed to happen im happy to see that some professions on paper dont look like they will be over nerfed compared to the obvious ones that really really really needed it.

I was expecting necro to be over nerfed but i am fine with the damage nerfs to be honest necro will be even more weak to cc now though but i mean that was already a thing. On paper it looks like damage soaking for necromancer as it was designed to do will be some what on par with damage evasion that other professions have but again this is on paper.

Necros sustain now will mainly depend on how everyone elses damage output looks and i would say with everyone dropping down and boons also coming down this is looking like one of you best balance passes so far.

Im sad at the loss of foot in the grave although it was weak as heck but you replaced it with something that might actually see use and most defiantly should have been included in the necromancers kit in some way. I can say if this was the perfect spot for it but its good to see that a trait like "Eternal Life" was added in the general notes.

Im super happy to see some of the insane stuff go and some elites get more proper trade offs like the other already have.

Im still waiting on a total scourge rework though i dont see anyone using that even with the reduction to everything else its just too clunky overall on paper these notes so far look like solid 8/10. I would say this is mostly step in the right direction for competitive modes.

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > In my personal opinion

> >

> > Technically speaking...

> > Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

> >

> > Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

>

> I mean, we watched Caithe be branded last season. If the sylvari's immunity truly came from being descended from Mordremoth's minions, it seems to have ended when Mord's power was redistributed to the other dragons.

Well she was not branded and they specifically call that out as connection not corruption. It was her choice to allow it to happen in a sense of speaking.

I guess if we play this angle what it means is that if Jormags whispers allow Sylvari to willing make the choice then they can be turned into icebrood in a similar manner it just cant be forced so to speak.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> For example:

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

>

> This one takes resistance first.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike

>

> This takes aegis first.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft

>

> This takes Aegis first, but always takes Stab second

>

now if only we knew the order list for every other type of removal sense all of them seem to be a bit different D:

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Ghetx.1752" said:

> > > How useful are those?

> > >

> > > 2 boons removed every 18 seconds,with almost every profession having trillion boons with almost 100% uptime.

> > >

> > > I'm gonna remove 2 of your boons,you gonna re-apply same boons next second.

> > >

> > > I guess that would work with proper premade team,where everyone has boon removal.

> >

> > its very good depending on which professions it procs on.

> > Generally its most effective on professions with high boon application but small boon tables like warrior for instances they have alot of might uptime and occasionally swiftness or say fury and or quickness usually in most cases never more than 2-4 boons at any given time they they can self produce ina given build.

> > Same with necromancer high might up time and application but the boon table is pretty small. Might, swiftness, occasionally protection and stability (mostly with reaper) and fury generally necromancers only have between 3-5 boons at any given time and the upper end of that usually is with reaper while the lower end is with core and scourge.

> >

> > So in cases like this it can be easy to time when you want to use your annulment to hinder them.

> >

> > That said its still useful against the bigger boon table profession too but in a lot of those casese they will replace the boons the movement you remove them but still even if you removed 2 boons for a short time its still decent as you can rip away possibly the most important boons like might, stability, etc.

> >

> > So its more effective against some professions than others but generally its a good choice.

>

> How is boon removal prioritized? Order of application?

There was a long conversation about this in a mesmer post when talking about arcane thievery vs corrupt boon and to be honest no one can agree on consistent information or sources... so honestly i dont know. From my experience most of the time its the most recent that were applied (not including increasing durations on boons that where applied well before) This is me using corrupts though not direct rips. I dont use direct rips as often as corrupts with necromancer being my main choice of profession.

But some people will say its random even when in my opinion it seems like its not which does not prove that it is or is not random and some people say it prioritizes boons like Aegis and Stability first which in the case of corrupts and my exp on necro that this is not true. How ever in the case of direct rips (purely removal) heck if i know.

In the case of something like Annulment i have no clue.

The only confirmed prioritized boon removal/rip that I can agree is 100% consistent as boon removal is done with thief steal both with its f skill (when combined with bountiful theft) and its weapon skills. Those will always prioritize boons like aegis and stability before any other boon regardless of how / when they were applied but i have a feeling that other boon rips might not work this way. I think this was programmed in so that the "Slight of hand" trait would always apply its daze to the target so long as you also invested in bountiful.

Out side of that the information is too mixed from too many different players for me personally to consider any 1 player be 100% correct on how any other types work to really say and because the wiki provides no information on this the only way i think we would ever know is if a Dev popped in to answer for us.

If a group of people can agree with the priority on how annulment rip works it would be something for me to look into so i would appreciate it.

The reason i made the post about it being stronger on professions like warrior and necro is because their boon tables are smaller than alot of other professions if you are looking to remove specific boons with the sigil effect the smaller boon table likely means you are more likely get the one you were looking to remove.

> @"Ghetx.1752" said:

> How useful are those?

>

> 2 boons removed every 18 seconds,with almost every profession having trillion boons with almost 100% uptime.

>

> I'm gonna remove 2 of your boons,you gonna re-apply same boons next second.

>

> I guess that would work with proper premade team,where everyone has boon removal.

its very good depending on which professions it procs on.

Generally its most effective on professions with high boon application but small boon tables like warrior for instances they have alot of might uptime and occasionally swiftness or say fury and or quickness usually in most cases never more than 2-4 boons at any given time they they can self produce ina given build.

Same with necromancer high might up time and application but the boon table is pretty small. Might, swiftness, occasionally protection and stability (mostly with reaper) and fury generally necromancers only have between 3-5 boons at any given time and the upper end of that usually is with reaper while the lower end is with core and scourge.

So in cases like this it can be easy to time when you want to use your annulment to hinder them.

That said its still useful against the bigger boon table profession too but in a lot of those casese they will replace the boons the movement you remove them but still even if you removed 2 boons for a short time its still decent as you can rip away possibly the most important boons like might, stability, etc.

So its more effective against some professions than others but generally its a good choice.

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

>

> This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

To be honest with you if boon spam was not a thing condi necro would not be viable.

It ramps way too slow without the safety that the other professions have. Boon corruption plays a massive part in its viability. The more boon dependent a profession (which is litterally almost every profession and elite in the game to some extent) the more viable it is. The moment it has to fight something with very few or no really important boons it can just be run over.

Also there was very long period where ele condi or hybrid was viable/meta before HoT, After Hot, and even Now post PoF

Condi ranger is also a thing but most people have not figured it out yet. Condi/soulbeast ranger is very strong right now but it does require a greater deal of effort to play than its power variants so we dont see people using it alot yet. The moment the dps on power soulbeast goes down epxect to see condi soulbeast spread like wild fire cause it actually does work.

In my personal opinion

Technically speaking...

Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

> @"Fire Attunement.9835" said:

> > @"Hanakocz.5697" said:

> >

> > However, **please fix the bug where whole escort event fails because Jhavi gets teleported back into the village after portal sections, thanks**.

>

> We're on it! Cameron gave a couple of updates to that issue in [this thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96423/jahvi-escort-for-drakkar-bugged) earlier today.

Are the reward tracks going to be updated so that pvp/wvw players can unlock the new stuff like they normally would be able to

This is the first story release in a long time that didnt come with a reward track for pvp and wvw.

Just wanting to point out not all players want to invest in completing a list of achievements when they dont mainly focus on pve or dont focus on pve much at all other than for the story / lore progress.

Bound by Blood had its emote in reward track

Whisper in the dark had the neat helm skin

This episode no reward track rewards emote/skin???

Me and a few other people are just assuming this was an oversight due to the map being expanded on rather than actually getting a new map can you possible check or confirm on this?

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > Condizerker would like a word

> >

> > Was that better for power for warriors tho? Were talking HoT in spvp right? Also im saying condition as a META damage type not having some what viable condition builds.

>

> I remember there being a ton of condi berserkers after HoT to the point they had to be nerfed. Between mace/bow you would put out a stupid amount of condi damage.

It really was not the damage that caused the nerfs of berserker in general it was the sustain. Any of the rapid fire burst at the time converted over to what was a lot of sustain for the damage back then. It wouldn't be seen as a lot of sustain by todays standards of damage but back then adrenal healing + healing signet was stronk.

Its still good now but might makes right + all the additional sources of might generally works better. Mending also got buffed to being an actual skill type which slowly pushed healing signet out of being the standard while giving warriors a legit condi removal tool that was not dependent on landing a burst.

Maybe im wrong though i just cant remember the damage being the issue just the sustain they had which made them so safe while doing the damage.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"ZDragon.3046"

> this are his words " you aren't supposed to stay in reaper shroud the whole time anyways cause quickness disapppears and you have to manage it a round the quickness bonus "

> I agree that you arent supposed to stay in reaper but not becouse quickness dissapears.

I think he means that when you leave shroud the bonus disappears which is true. He just worded it poorly and you might be taking it slightly too literal.

My question is why is there no pvp/wvw reward track for this one for the people who dont want to be forced to do achivements after playing the story. Im going to assume its an oversight because we are still in the same map.

Or unless its there and my 10 mins of looking for it the other day and i still missed it.

Also as someone else said new idle animations for different races / professions would be appreciated i would totally spend money on those lol.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Generally the problem i have with holo is that the risk of over heated its not nearly as high as it should be it never has been. Its rare to see a holo over heat for all the tools and damage they get. If the risk of heat was higher i wouldnt care about the cd tbh.

>

> Thing is, if ArenaNet made the heat increase faster or the heat storage smaller, players would just get used to the new heat gains and still be largely successful at preventing overheats. From personal experience, overheats come from being overconfident you can push it to the very limit. There's not much of a point to it, because you cannot balance around players ever overheating, it's just an unforgivingly hard punish when the Holo messes up.. honestly, quite pointless design despite a cool concept.

>

>

ok this is a fair point i just still think that holo is still just given too much freedom with its FP mode generally i would like to see people making the mistake of over heating a lot more than it happens. Right now the reward seems a bit high and the risk is a bit low even if new people adjust to new heat levels i think it could stand to see a bit of an adjustment. Holo is certainly not the most broken thing in the game but i wouldn't consider it innocent.

I also still have an issue with alot of the instant tool belt damage skills but thats a base issue not specifically a holo issue.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Axl.8924"

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught

> you dont lose quickness when you stay in reaper form.

> its 3s quickness that pulses every 3s. meaning that its permanent.

I think he means it disappears after leaving shroud. I think you just took his wording the wrong way. vs holos boons which might stay for a much longer duration even after they drop PF mode.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Reaper has 10 sec cd though just like holo

>

> Nope.. nothing alike. One's a 10 second cooldown on the form, the other is a 6 second cooldown on leaving the form (with otherwise no cooldown).

>

kind of have to agree reaper is not the same as holo

Not only are the cds different and fuction in different ways the cd on the skill inside those forms are not nearly equal to one another holo provides much lower cds than reaper does and allows utility usage while in the photon mode. Reaper on the other hand has much higher cds no utility access with the benefit of having protected hp while in the form. Hard to say which is better but if anything I think if holo was not depending on perma boon in most builds it wouldnt be nearly as strong as it is now though.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me.

>

> Context is key bro. Holosmith is pretty average right now, I'd say in an ideal balance state. Holosmith is way more fun and straightforward to fight than the vast majority of specs at the moment.

>

> A high access to a skill that moves you 450 distance is great, no doubt. Keep in mind the context of that being on a spec that has no iFrames at all when attacking, and one o-shi button on a 48s cooldown - it's 100% vulnerable to counter pressure when it's swinging diack. Fighting a Holo is an incredible breath of fresh air compared to high iFrame specs while simultaneously bursting you, permanent stealth specs, or tanky specs that vomit stability and conditions.

Thats why it has perma boon and a block though along side that 48s shrink.

So while it might not be spamming iframes its far from being proper its got its own abusive aspects.

Generally the problem i have with holo is that the risk of over heated its not nearly as high as it should be it never has been. Its rare to see a holo over heat for all the tools and damage they get. If the risk of heat was higher i wouldnt care about the cd tbh.

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> not too long ago, necro was way too op in pvp. Now its a bit weaker and people call it terrible in hope it will ever become "viable".

>

> Its still viable. In Pvp, but also in Pve endgame. Its one of the single classes that can carry whole raid fights without problems, and to that it doesnt really need much support.

I dont really agree with the latter part of this i think in raids necro most certainly still needs support as it (reaper) cant even hold good self might while a foe is above 50% Core is not realistically viable in any pve end game content like raids / fractals (not to say you cant use it but its certainly not seen as viable) and it does not carry whole raid fights without problems that defeats the purpose of raids if it could do such a thing.

> Might, vulvner. , healing, damage, sustain.... it all has that, even tons of it

it has not been op in pvp in a very long time dont be confused with wvw and pvp

in wvw some aspects of necro where very much over performing like scourge etc.

in pvp no spec of necro alone has been op in a good long while. The last thing that was op was scourge near its initial release when it was bugged its bee getting toned down and is now stuck in a pit of unviability in terms of solo play.

Reaper does ok but has alot of hard counters so as strong as it is it more or less balances out.

Core is well core its the only other boon hate options due to scourge being dead. Dont confuse this with the idea that just because people are playing it that its "ok" it too still has many many counters and the people that often complain the most about it are the ones running around with perma boon uptime pretending like its not a problem. Core just happens to be the one build that some what objects their own and so people see it as "op" or doing "ok" in reality its really not much stronger than it ever has been if anything its a bit weaker than it was a year or so ago back when it had some stronger traits open that dont exists anymore but this is a bit up in the air to say.

Truth is

Core is "seen" decent only because its the only counter to perma boon and scourge players moved to this so its played more often. IT didnt get better it just became the only other option considering core was not really used for much for a long period of time a lot of people also forgot how to fight it so it must be "op!"

Reaper is decent but is very easy to shut down if you know what you are doing even core necro shuts reaper down because boon hate.

Scourge cannot be played in solo if you want to have a decent time in your matches you need some one like support tempest or firebrand on your back 24/7 or it just does no work.

In regards to the "it has it all" statement

So yes it has might but thats mainly all it has for its boon table aside from swiftness, and protection really. Most other professions ramp might faster than necro does in higher amounts with wider boon tables.

Vuln yes necro is pretty much a king at this but its no the only one who can apply it vuln is a pretty common condition.

Healing and sustain... sorry but no other professions win here in terms of healing necros are not too strong in recovering once their hp gets low they just have a higher total amount of hp due to shroud. Professions and elites like weaver, warrior, rangers, and engi have far greater healing and sustain in terms of evades, blocks, stealth, recovering from near death levels of hp back to full etc.

Damage, Reaper has damage but others still have more damage than it does... but i agree its higher than it should be along with everyone elses dps. Core damage is not viable for end game pve and its sub par in pvp any damage it can do in pvp other professions can do much more damage in the same time frame. IF core kills you in pvp then it deserved that kill.

The 1 up necro has on everyone else is boon corruption which is part of its unique class mechanic turned into a balancing tool for the other 8 professions.

Necro is not in the worst spot ever but a of aspects around it could certainly be improved if they would let go of launch day values they have aggressively balanced and designed even its elites around. 2 elites in and it still only mostly generates might, boon table has not expanded, no blocks or evades, etc. Anet has kept it in the same corner for 7 going on 8 years now while others have been let out to explore a bit which is why things are so power crept. Either keep everyone in their corners or let everyone explore out.

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> As I've said before, Firebrands represent what other classes should be. Its not that they're too strong, its that everything else is weak.

I would have agreed with you if you had said "core guardian" represents what all classes should be as core guardian is actually very balanced imo. Ive willinly admit to personally thinking core guardian is the most balanced profession in this game.

Every strength it has in a build also has an equal weakness.

Firebrand removes a massive chunk of those weaknesses though so i dont agree.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Because not every profession has a plethora of unblockables. Rev has the most common access with its phase transversal and considering the potential damage rev can do in 2 hits its why they counter firebrands. Unblockable skills become considerably less common after this with and dont serve as much value against the majority of other professions.

> Banish Enchantment, Nothing Can Save You, Swipe + Bountiful Theft + S/D, Signet of Might, Signet of the Wild. Any of those would easily get rid of a FB in the right opportunity with any sort of pressure following.

**Banish enchantment** is also on rev but that build is less viable due to it being a condition build its certainly not as common or effective especially when the boons are reapplied faster than they are ripped.

**Nothing can save you**.... simply put necro has no room to fit in its kit due to it lacking other defensive tools you cant afford to take it over other tools that help you sustain better against the wide range of builds that can counter necro. Its also got a very unhealthy cast time that makes it hard to use as a reactionary tool and so you have to use it ahead of time assuming when you think the guardian might block which often can result in it being literally not effective at all. If it was instant cast like warrior signet i would maybe give you this one but still... kinda meh....

**Swipe** is fairly high cd and only does one strike some times deals no damage depending on the setup it wont be super effective against guards that can pop multi blocks

**S/D** is legit and can work but also very risky I often think that in most cases the sustain of FB outperforms thief sustain by a long shot. Considering S/D never instantly kills anything for the most part unless its already super low it can kill FB but only cause unblockable is in its base kit which seems a bit unjust leaving the counterplay still too niche

**Signet of might** really does not fit into warrior options its kind of the same as necro "nothing can save you." while warrior does have a bit more more wiggle room than necro its still not something you can expect them to run. Warriors also have the stability to not get cc chained into firebrand symbols or at least cant quickly get out of them lessening their need for an unblock-able utility like signet of might. Not to mention you have options like spell breaker and full counter which can take full advantage of symbols.

**Signet of the wild** much of the same thing there really is just no room for it which is why rangers want their free unblockable back. The do much better against the majority by just taking more stability.

IF people are forced to take unblockable against Firebrand my question is why is firebrand not forced to take specific things against other roles/ professions that are way out of its meta zone. Or maybe it always does and just has that much in its kit that its well equipped for the vast majority of professions which would make it unbalanced imo.

I want to back up to the skills you listed one more time before moving on.

Almost all of these skills you listed (not s/d or banish enchantments) actually have cooldowns that are moderate and some skills like swipe only acting as a one time hit which will not be effective enough to out perform a firebrands sustain. As i said once you go beyond rev the frequency of unblockable play goes down considerably. Not in sense that the skills dont exists just that either the cds are higher than revs or that they simply dont fit into a build because the loss is so considerably greater than the gain.

What good is having an unblockable utility if you are forced to give up your cc resistance on for example. Sure you can hit through block but now you can be stun chained and what about when you fight things that dont have as frequent access to blocks via skills or boon application.

>

> > Because some professions dont have a ton of stability that last for long durations. The ones that do are also over performing or stand a much fair chance against them. Warriors, Rangers, Weavers, etc.

>

> Warriors rarely run Stability today, as for the other two I still think Revenant is miles above those two as well as giving it.

Rev can give stability but usually revs running jails these days are bunker revs and they wont die to firebrand or get pinned down like most other professions do I cant say when the last time was that i saw a jails rev that was not a bunker build.

>

> > Because the best boon hate elite was thrown into the dust with wvw updates back when updates were still tied together. Firebrand can cc combo it to death pretty easily too. Also only 3-4 professions of the entire 9 have the power to rip boons and 2 of them not very commonly. Firebrand also replaces its boons too quickly (uptime is too high)

>

> Necromancer, Revenant and Thief in order would have an easy time making sure that FB doesn't stay for long.

Necros are cc'ed to death due to lack of stability in their base kits the little they have is often not enough and FB's can outsustain them. Boons removed are often quickly re-applied.

Rev counters them because of the few unblockable procs and the insanely high over-performing burst damage.

Theif only if they are not fighting the thief directly again thief as a +1 is what its best at. ITs not as free for thief against them as some people might think unless its literally the one shot build which in some cases might work but that build is unhealthy for the game overall too and also needs to be removed.

>

> > This is true and valid and it works on core and DH just not Firebrand which is why you dont see symbol complaints with just core and DH (go back to cc chain issue)

>

> Guardians be Guardians, they are meant to dominate an area, it's in their name. I don't think Symbols should be nerfed at all if they can be free casted from afar.

I dont think symbols should be nerfed cause they are not the problem on core and DH its just the firebrand line thats over-performing and the firebrands specific tools mantras / tomes. Its more so the fact that firebrand as boon uptime and sustain that should not exsist on an offensive setup. Also the strengths of the tomes is up there.

>

> > Because anet forces you too and its the whole reason why offensive firebrand builds even exists right now.... Offensive power works as a better means of defense than actually investing in defensive stats and in some cases defensive tools (depending on the profession)

>

> Yes all amulets have Power or Condition to keep a degree of combat potential which is also why Magi doesn't exist anymore, but that in regards all amulets fill a niche that one certain profession could excel, even Knights. The game is really complex yet stupidly narrowed down because "meta".

I just think anet has pushed kill potential too high in attempts to get out of the HoT meta that was a tanky bunker nightmare and they kept going to the point that investing in defensive stats are irrelevant. Offensive power is worth more as a means o defense than actual defensive power.

>

> >Almost every profession or one of its elites in the game including firebrand

>

> No what I meant there was that everyone runs something predictable and generic because "meta", I'll have you know that there's this Reaper running in ranked with Signet of the Undeath which has turned a lot of games around by just changing one utility slot, some Guardians have finally realized the strength of Save Yourselves pulling /ALL/ conditions around them in a team fight. There's a lot of things to do outside the box that requires just a slightly harder curve, all it takes is daring.

To some extent yes but also no.

People didnt bother considering undeath before the buff to it (although ive ran it in alot of games long before the change i used it a good bit since like 2017 lol it was always solid with reaper ((at lest with SoS)).)

Going off meta makes you a bit more unpredictable and thats fine and some times it works however, There is a difference in being unpredictable and just having a mechanical advantage that allows something to over-perform.. even more so when its outperforming on roles other than the one it was mainly designed around.

In case 1 with the reaper.... that only happened because the skill got mechanically better as a passive and active (to some extent cast time etc) it mechanically got better as a tool option to take as a part of necromancers kits being so life force dependent in a game mode where you can often be starved for life force as you wont gain as much like you do in pve and wvw.

In case 2 with save yourselves this is a good example of just being purely unpredictable and adapting to try new things.

Overall i hope anet takes the game in a better direction than it is now because right now its literally a hot mess.