ZDragon.3046

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > The next mount if anew one comes needs to be one that can handle the cold climate of the north.

> > The debuff from the strike disables mounts because it says its too cold for them. This makes me thing the next mount will be something we have never seen thats local to the far north only.

> > I dont think a spider of all things is the best choice

>

> War dollyaks just saying.

LOL only if a charr can fit on it properly :'D

**walks down street** awww snap... here we go again.

The next mount if anew one comes needs to be one that can handle the cold climate of the north.

The debuff from the strike disables mounts because it says its too cold for them. This makes me thing the next mount will be something we have never seen thats local to the far north only.

I dont think a spider of all things is the best choice

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > I think the rivalry might end when the next E-spec comes rolling out, if it ever does. Im pretty sure given time they will both find their place, it might be another spec that might cement that footing and I think it might be needed. Something new and different while similar to the current play it has, something that can be more than what currently is but not over weigh or hinder any of what necromancer has been.

> > > >

> > > > Something perhaps even darker...? Who knows.

> > >

> > > I'm of the opinion that there needs to be 2 shroud specs and 2 life force specs like scourge. this to me would be best. What the reapers and scourge's want are too different to satisfy both with a single new spec. But I'm willing to be wrong.

> >

> > Only if they make the core shroud and aspect of necromancer realistically viable then i would agree.

> >

> > Otherwise i have to say i would rather see a 3rd shroud spec than another life force kit one. Anet is still struggling how to balance scourge because its so vastly different from necros base design in gw2 and its tearing the spec apart.

>

> I actually wasn't including core in that. I was talking about a total of 4 elite specs. If core was converted into a life force kit.... My tune would be okay with a the next spec being a shroud. But honestly I don't expect the third elite spec to be a life force spec. I expect it to be a shroud. And I'm not opposed to that idea. I actually have some ideas for how Anet could make core death shroud into a life force kit that could be fun. I don't think they'd do it though.

I see

I actually like core as a shroud its just so underdeveloped and out dated that its rough to keep up regardless of what content you use it for. Granted its a bit stronger in pvp than it is in pve or wvw when it comes to effectiveness but still.

I just feel like it cant be anything too close to scourge because anet is still struggling to handle that after 2 years.

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > > They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

> > >

> > > You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

> > >

> > > Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

> > >

> > > If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

> >

> > Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

> >

> > It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

>

> I dont think so. Anet could have easily stoped arc and ban everyone who used it. To say it garbage because you dont like it isnt fair. anet was nice enough to give them a pass but lets not give them credit for that.

My thoughts ^

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > I think the rivalry might end when the next E-spec comes rolling out, if it ever does. Im pretty sure given time they will both find their place, it might be another spec that might cement that footing and I think it might be needed. Something new and different while similar to the current play it has, something that can be more than what currently is but not over weigh or hinder any of what necromancer has been.

> >

> > Something perhaps even darker...? Who knows.

>

> I'm of the opinion that there needs to be 2 shroud specs and 2 life force specs like scourge. this to me would be best. What the reapers and scourge's want are too different to satisfy both with a single new spec. But I'm willing to be wrong.

Only if they make the core shroud and aspect of necromancer realistically viable then i would agree.

Otherwise i have to say i would rather see a 3rd shroud spec than another life force kit one. Anet is still struggling how to balance scourge because its so vastly different from necros base design in gw2 and its tearing the spec apart.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > How is it incorrect? Again, if the situation at Anet is so bad they _needed_ to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, then it's **really** bad. And if it's not so bad, then we're back to the previous question: Why would new LS release need a _new_ revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it?

> > >

> > > In the end, there are only two possibilities here.

> > > 1. They didn't need a new revenue stream, and heavily monetizing templates was just a cheap cash grab,

> > > or

> > > 2. They did need to monetize templates, at the cost to their usefulness. In that case, the situation at Anet is really bad, and we _can_ worry about the future.

> >

> > I cant say I agree without proof to be honest with you.

> > Where is the hard proof that they need the money more or less why try to make the most gain with a system that you are offering with a free base for all players?

> The system has been specifically designed to be monetized, so much that it negatively affected it's primary functionality. Why? I see only 2 answers, which i included in my previous post. If you see a different reason for crippling a highly desired QoL system's functionality, please, say so.

This is not factual information. These are 2 suggestive statements but not factual information.

1: A new revenue stream is a given thing thats gonna happen in games that dont charge monthly fees. How ever this does not mean anet needs a "quick cash grab badly" and that the design of the system as a whole was purely based around this.

2: For most people the systems design is not going to appear negatively impacted. You cant speak for everyone here and this is subjective making it not factual.

> > If they wanted easy money why not make ascended foods or ingredients directly purchasable from the gem store for cheap with the cooking 500 update?

> Well, they did make the level 500 cooking effectiveness heavily dependable on gemstore purchases, didn't they...

not from what I saw i could have missed it though.

>

> > There are just so many other better opportunities they could have used for "A cheap cash grab" if they were just out of the money which is why i dont agree with your statement.

> Okay, so, tell me why do _you_ think they needed to monetize the template system so much it negatively impacted its usefulness.

> I'm waiting.

For most people its not going to be negatively impacting. (you have to remember this fact)

If a person does not use arc templates and only has a few builds they play its not going to appear negatively impacted from their perspective if anything the way the system is made will be fine and dandy. It will be better than what they have now which could be for a large number of people "nothing"

Once again we cant just assume the reasoning for the design is purely for money. It could be but this does not mean it is. We can agree to disagree here.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > > > > And somehow you don’t think that the introduction of a new free big update doesn’t need a new kind of revenue stream?

> > > > > Why would it need a _new_ revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it? Are you suggesting they are so poor they need to heavily monetize stuff like the templates now just to keep afloat? If so, that doesn't bode well for th future, you know.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > like didnt they just recently have a mass layoff?

> > > 1. layoff reduced their costs, not increased it.

> > > 2. there were times in their past when they had even less developers, and yet didn't need to fund each new LS with adding anything beyond new skins to gemshop - and even those were at a level that was a bit tamer than it is now (remember, single skins for 2k gems are something that only happened after PoF)

> > >

> > > of course, if you're saying that layoffs are just a sign that situation in Anet is really bad, and they are indeed so desperate they _needed_ to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, you may be right. But then it would be exactly as i said - it would be a very, very bad sign concerning the game's future. As in, a big question mark about whether this game even _has_ a future.

> > >

> >

> > Both of you should know the layoffs were not just something to reduce cost it was also to force anet to focus on guild wars 2 which was starting to die. They had less and less people working on gw2 and were pulling people from gw2 to work on other unannounced projects.

> >

> > Your information here is so incorrect its mind blowing

> How is it incorrect? Again, if the situation at Anet is so bad they _needed_ to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, then it's **really** bad. And if it's not so bad, then we're back to the previous question: Why would new LS release need a _new_ revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it?

>

> In the end, there are only two possibilities here.

> 1. They didn't need a new revenue stream, and heavily monetizing templates was just a cheap cash grab,

> or

> 2. They did need to monetize templates, at the cost to their usefulness. In that case, the situation at Anet is really bad, and we _can_ worry about the future.

I cant say I agree without proof to be honest with you.

Where is the hard proof that they need the money more or less why try to make the most gain with a system that you are offering with a free base for all players?

There is a whole forum dedicated to the idea of new gem store items that anet can pull and tinker with adding to the game that would easily generate money much more quickly with likely much less investment. I just dont think this is a truthful case with what you are suggesting.

If they wanted easy money why not make ascended foods or ingredients directly purchasable from the gem store for cheap with the cooking 500 update?

Why not make options where you can pay to skip some of the quest waiting time (which some people would surely pay to do.)

Why not just make war claw a buyable unlock for your account allowing a player to skip the quest if they wanted.

There are just so many other better opportunities they could have used for "A cheap cash grab" if they were just out of the money which is why i dont agree with your statement.

But yeah this is why i think your statement is incorrect.

All of the mesmers ive seen lore wise not player character wise seem to be very well off in combat situations even if they dont directly pick up a sword and gut someone with it. They can play a major power role on combat situations without ever getting directly face to face.

To be honest with you if i lived in the word of Tyria Jennah would terrify me. Its mind blowing to realize how powerful of a mesmer she really is. Mesmers are literally some of the most potentially overpowered users of magic from a lore perspective and its shown time and time again. *cough* xera....

I would say with ease that they could be very strong combatants if they really aspired to do so.

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"KidRoleplay.3615" said:

> > > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > > > > as long as pve boys tell the opposite .....

> > > >

> > > > ...and girls. ;) I, too, use this e-spec on my Revenant.

> > > >

> > > > > sure its completely trash in tpvp

> > > >

> > > > That's a completely different story. The OP did not say much about anything, e.g. which game mode they were referring to.

> > >

> > > sorry for the "boy" it means all pve ppl

> > > and i dont rly understand why the concept of kalla is even released ... i mean

> > > watch all other legends .... they all have DIFFERENT ABILITIES - Kalla is all the same clunky thing ....summon with very high cast time and it needs also very long time untile summon something do ... nearly 2 secs for a skill WHICH IS INTERUPPTABLE by simple cc ...GG

> >

> > It's fine. You dont have to understand it. Just adjust to how it works or don't. The choice is yours.

>

> it doesn´t fit revenant at all and its clunkiness puts renegade at a disadvantage in pvp/wvw. not just that it performs bad, it doesn´t even work at all to begin with, stationary, kill-able and easy to interrupt makes a skill utterly useless.

The only think clunky about renegade is the fact that i never once saw an ounce of Kalla Scorchrazor's lore involve her with a short bow. Even her statue in the citadel places here with a great-sword in hand with heavy armor at that. So im not really sure how

> obviously it doesn´t have to be meta or the best specialization, it just needs to work properly

>

> for example:

> -make kalla´s summons cc-immune

> -its effects start when they´re summoned, without delay

> -summons cannot be killed anymore

>

> this wouldn´t make them over powered in the slightest due them still being stationary and avoidable.

It actually would make them a bit op

considering one of them is a rapid daze while the others provide strong buff effects + their effective radius is greater than even the biggest scourge shades.

I think out of all the spirits only one of them is truely bad and thats the icerazor one but if he is thrown out along side the others he becomes much stronger as those buffs do and will effect it as well.

There are some parts I agree on but not every thing at once.

Making them cc immune would be ok only if their is a trade off such as effective radius reduced by 33 or 66%

Having the effects start right away is QoL im fine with this

Allowing them to be hit is a double edged sword depending on what class you are fighting. In the case of fighting another rev having more targets around you that can be hit can be benefiting as it ruins the damage of the sword 3 attack. The spirits can also block projectiles for you.

Keep in mind if you take away their ability to be hit it means that you now soak all incoming damage where in a lot of cases damage could be reduced by them tanking hits for you.

Another good QoL would probably be slightly lower energy cost and allowing the spirits with the exception of the elite to remain summoned when you legend swap. I cant recall but i think if you summon one and swap legends some of them end their effects immediately without going the full duration.

To be honest with you looking at pvp only i might consider renegade stronger than scourge at the moment

You have the aoe pressure with multiple tools to defend and sustain yourself with and greater mobility options as well.

Depending on your build you can also apply burst condition better than a scourge and are not as defenseless when fighting in melee as scourge is.

(i might have to start trying renegade again now that i think about it)

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > > And somehow you don’t think that the introduction of a new free big update doesn’t need a new kind of revenue stream?

> > > Why would it need a _new_ revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it? Are you suggesting they are so poor they need to heavily monetize stuff like the templates now just to keep afloat? If so, that doesn't bode well for th future, you know.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > like didnt they just recently have a mass layoff?

> 1. layoff reduced their costs, not increased it.

> 2. there were times in their past when they had even less developers, and yet didn't need to fund each new LS with adding anything beyond new skins to gemshop - and even those were at a level that was a bit tamer than it is now (remember, single skins for 2k gems are something that only happened after PoF)

>

> of course, if you're saying that layoffs are just a sign that situation in Anet is really bad, and they are indeed so desperate they _needed_ to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, you may be right. But then it would be exactly as i said - it would be a very, very bad sign concerning the game's future. As in, a big question mark about whether this game even _has_ a future.

>

Both of you should know the layoffs were not just something to reduce cost it was also to force anet to focus on guild wars 2 which was starting to die. They had less and less people working on gw2 and were pulling people from gw2 to work on other unannounced projects.

Your information here is so incorrect its mind blowing

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> @"ZDragon.3046"

>

> I don't know if you are mostly an open world player, or with what type on content you are engaged with to have so little use for different builds, but I do wonder with how you are defending this monetisation, especially with your focus on it being a mistake to allow the free tool with Arc in the past, if you would bring the same arguments to the table if it had been LW that was getting so heavily monetised (or whatever else you are engaged with).

Open wolrd

Fractals t4

Raids

(minimal WvW)

and casual PvP

>

> Let's say they had announced with Icebrood, that going forward you had to unlock the LW episodes account wide for 500 gems each, to then buy access to the new map, per character, for 600 Gems each, to then unlock the story steps within that map for 400 Gems each, per character. (Which in a way would still me much more tame than the current idea for templates)

Lol thats not even a real situation you made it considerably un reasonable.

Would i pay 500 gems for a new living world episode? Yes

Access to the new map (you are being unrealistic here but ill say no)

And with story steps once again this is unrealistic by all means so ill say no

If you are going to make a price comparison be realistic about it in your example you paid for the same thing twice lol

To be honest we have been lucky so far that anet chose not to have us pay for LW episodes so long as you log in while they are the most current one. Most other games would charge you for this kind of content. So before you start going crazy with your scenarios keep that in mind.

>

> Would you have had the same reaction to complains about that? That Anet's biggest mistake up until that point was to give away Living World for free, and that everybody who is complaining now is simply entitled and doesn't understand that Anet needs to make some money?

> Even though if most complains would not be about monetisation itself, but simply the amount of it, saying it would be fine if it just cost 400-600 Gems per episode account wide for the whole thing?

Anet did this because they wanted to do guild wars 2 differently to every other MMO thats out at the current time and they have done alot of things better. Have they done everything better? No, of course not but you cant get both sides of the coin every time.

There is a difference between understanding why something is happening and being entitled to saying how something should or should not be and that you dont care if they make money or not. Yes. in short its very easy to sound like an "A" hole (no offense to you) when trying to say why something should or should not be a certain way. Even more so if you go at it with the mentality of not caring or bashing the company based on things they couldnt possibly know.

>

> I really struggle to see if this is just a complete lack of empathy with those who require templates to enjoy the game, since you are not personally affected in this case, or if you are really fine with just whatever kind of monetisation, no matter how bad, even if it affects yourself.

> I'm also not sure which case would be worse tbh, but I'm genuinely curious.

The reason i dont have much empathy for people on this subject is because arc has spoiled them its a simple fact of truth. This is however is not the only reason a large part of why i lack a lot of empathy is because of how people speak the subject.. Its going at the issue in completely the wrong way and no matter what you say they are right and you are wrong. IT does not matter how much logic is put into your statement because its truth and truth is not so favorable to what they might need.

Ideally it helps to not pretend like you dont know what the other person is talking about, not cherry pick, insert irrelevant statements, and put words in the persons mouth with assumptions. For the record Im not ok with just any kind of monetization (you said that not me). Speak with clarity and have some common since and have some base form of understanding how speak properly to get your point across.

Now if you are talking about anet lacking empathy for people who required more lest consider a few things

- Anet did not design this with the idea that the majority of players are using arc (as they would never tell you or support the idea of using 3rd party addons even if arc is technically allowed im sure if i write a support ticket asking should I use it they wouldnt say "sure! go for it." )

- Ant does not know how many people use arc or how many builds per character they have set up on arc

- There is absolutely no data intel for people using arc vs people who are not

Can you really blame them that the design does not fit the minorities needs? Can you really call that lack of empathy... I say no.

IF you think anets design is bad then thats fine but dont jut say "BAD DESIGN! ARC WAS FREE WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE IT, IT SHOULD BE FREE!"

Speak clearly and point with great detail on why you think its bad while doing it think critically that your situation is probably not the same as a majority of other people. Dont assume every choice is simply for monetization if anet really just wanted to make money off people the game would have had a sub fee from the start in which people would have paid and continued to pay to this day. They could have allowed massive advantages like increased stats or effects for gem items. its called "pay to win."

There are many ways to make money off people without mercy that anet could have easily applied by now if they wanted too.

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Raids have a catch 22

> > Most groups want people to present kill proof

> > New players wont have kill proof

> >

> > How can a new player present kill proof if they never get to play the content.

> > Overall unless you know some one who is going to lead and organize the raid itself you dont get to go. Every once in a while a kind stranger will offer trainings but still thats not enough.

> >

> > People cant learn to get better if others wont help them

> > Even if some one is pulling bad dps numbers there are raids were one if not several players can be slacking and the raid still be cleared with relative ease.

> > Suggest them to practice their builds and give them resources but dont just insta kick them. Most players if they really want to learn and get better will do so very quickly if you give them a hand.

> >

> > The issue is that people dont give that hand.

> >

> > Thats why strikes are going to become a thing. Hopefully without generating kill proof as thats one of the biggest things that splits raid vets, average players who just want to enjoy end game, and new players looking to experience end game. ITs hard to join a raid when the squad leader wants 50+ or 80 kp and you are pretty new to raiding as a whole.

> >

> > on the flip side im a pretty casual player ive had 250 kp players go down on and or cause wipes in groups making mistakes i didnt or rarely make. But they present themselves like they are gods. overall the kp system the raid community has made has a fair share of problems.

> >

> >

>

> I'll say this, FFXIV does a good job of encouraging new players to new content to them by giving bonuses to the whole group if new players are present. This significantly increases their cohesiveness and softens the stance towards newcomers. In that game, it's an XP bonus, but I could see having 2-3 more chances at getting some of the rarer drops per new raid encounter finished.

>

> It's a general flaw throughout the rest of GW2 - the lack of motivating new players and the dearth of ways to get them mixed up with others. GW2 plays like a singleplayer game that *happens* to have other people nearby, at least I experience it that way more frequently than I would like to admit.

Something like this would be nice but it would have to be something worth wild.

Then again raids were not a part of the core games design so i can see why something like this is not included. In open world people are well encouraged to help others in fractals and raids not so much things can get frustrating and or toxic pretty quickly sometimes

> @"Doug.4930" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Dagger.2035" said:

> > > The stealth design for this game should have been fixed the first year the game came out. They should have never allowed a weapon set to have both a smoke field and a leap or blast finisher. This would still allow combos to provide stealth but it would require a weapon swap or a utility skill to do so.

> > >

> > > I just hope that they realize their mistake with deadeye and focus their nerfs on that elite spec. To start it should not be able to remove revealed. I don’t like that they keep adding counters to counters. This elite spec introduced a lot of issues with unblockable projectiles too. It’s probably the reason why Dagger Storm uses evasion now and has little counterplay.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Tbh i would have liked to see a camouflage mechanic like some other games have.

> > Stealth makes you appear translucent (like a friendly looks under stealth) and though you can see this translucent invisible figure you cant not directly target them or see their name or health bar this also disables a large majority of skills against them as many skills require a target lock. Only once they are beyond a certain distance from you (say past 600) do they become basically completely invisible. This would have allowed perma stealth builds to be fun to play while also being fair and allowing some forms of counter-play so they just dont get back stabs for free.

> >

> > This could have been done for all forms of stealth.

>

> This in my opinion would be going too far. If this change is implemented landing a backstab would become impossible against any semi competent player who has learnt how to hold down the right mouse button.

Not so sure really depends on the situation. If you are in a 1v1 sure maybe. If you are being a +1 to someone else that surely wont be the case.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > From a business perspective in my personal opinion i think its better to try and draw the majority over the few big players. Yes its nice to keep some big ticket players around but almost any thing can upset someone who plays by those standards.

> From a business perspective it doesn't make any sense to spend 2 years to develop a game system, and yet design it so it ignores needs of people _most likely to use it_. It makes even less sense to design a _heavily monetized_ system and design it that it is nice only for people that _will not feel the need to spend abything on it_.

well lets look at the 2 years you are pointing at.

- Path of fire was released or just previously released,

- living world updates were being released (which were free with PoF),

- we found out anet was also working on a lot of other side projects (which is arguably the only bad business practice you can really call out because they pulled resouces from gw2 to do it which lead to content coming to gw2 slower and slower.)

- anet was forced to close side projects and lay off a great number of people

- time to restructure before finishing up season 4

- preparation for season 5

You know cause we can just throw build templets into all this mindlessly (which is not how anything works in a business setting.) To implement new features or products takes time. Yes, decisions can be made to implement them on the fly and from one day to the next. How ever actually implementing those products or features can take weeks, months, or in some cases years depending whats already on the plate.

Do not be upset that it took anet a long time to implement something that was originally not going to be included in the game anyways. Thats being a bit ignorant.

I dont know what your job is but if you have not worked under a semi important role for a bigger company before you will get to experience the frustration of how often things change from a day to day or week to week bases which can delay new products or features for months / years. In most cases there is too much on the current plate or the time of year is not fitting to start implementing that new product or feature. This is even more so of a case when its something that was initially decided against months/ years ago that that said "thing" will not be or ever be a product or feature to start with but then comes up after a 1 hour meeting 5 years later.

>

> > I might not own legendary armor but being some one who has played for 7 years and who plays at least a few hours per day almost on the daily i like to consider myself as a pretty dedicated. All be it casual.. but still dedicated (thats a pretty flexible word). I also think this free update will work wonders for what I play and that coming from someone who dips into a bit of all 3 game modes.

> Yet at the same time you already mentioned that the "free" part is completely satisfactory for you and that you won't be buying anything.

>

> Basically, if anet wants to earn money off this system, why they designed it for people that won't pay? And if they designed it for majority they won't earn anything from, why even introduce a heavy monetization if the only group of people that might potentially pay are the people that will find this system unsatisfactory? Not only they won't earn much from it, but they will have to deal with bad PR.

Once again you are a minority if a few people who need 30 builds per character dont pay its not a big loss.

There will be likely a majority of middle ground of people who will pay for this feature. Even if they dont max out their slots.

Anet is not banking on the idea that every player who uses this system will max our their slots. They likely intend for there to be a majority of people who buys a few slots and thats about it. A few hundred /thousand people doing this alone is good enough more than likely.

As far as the bad PR is concerned people with a good mind set looking from both sides will see anet as a bad choice for allowing arc from the start and players putting out the bad PR as entitled considering you asked for something and are now up set that you are getting something that just so happens to not be a clone of arc templates.

>

> In either case, it doesn't have _any_ sense from business perspective.

Even if we assume this ^

The idea of allowing Arc still also does not make any sense from a business perspective. Simply saying anets choices makes no sense does not make the idea of allowing arc to make sense. People need to stop looking at it this way.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> People keep tossing around the word "dedicated" without defining it.

I consider it anyone who just plays the game constantly be it casually or elite status if you love something so much you are willing to play it through the good and the bad regardless of how hard you play i think thats "being dedicated". Even if you are just around to log in do some dailies and chat you can still be dedicated. you take time out of your day out of the millions of things you could be doing to do "that one thing" thats dedication. Regardless of how hard or lightly you take that task.

Long story short regardless how much some people want / need arc if anet forces it to go away, in the end dedicated players will continue to play regardless.

Same with balance patches, your build/spec/profession gets a hard nerf you will continue to play it regardless.

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > From a business perspective in my personal opinion i think its better to try and draw the majority over the few big players. Yes its nice to keep some big ticket players around but almost any thing can upset someone who plays by those standards.

> >

>

> Maybe ive been missing something, but why does this matter here?

Cause its clearly some people think that despite what is being said that they are in the minority think that they are the most beneficial players to anets game and thus they should get things the way they want it despite how it would cripple anet or the majority of players.

When its clearly not the case

> As others have pointed out, most players will be happy with what they get for free. They dont need more builds so why pay for it?

>

> Now you have the dedicated people that actually need more slots and you charge them for that? From a business perspective this should have been free to not upset anyone. Keep in mind that your most dedicated players are also the ones advertising the game through videos and streams.

Sorry no i dont agree here. Now i wont say what prices should have been or should be but free most certainly not.

As for dedicated players advertising the game through videos and streams (ive almost never watched any gw2 streaming or video content that was basiclly not funny garbage for chuckles) To which people who dont play the game would not understand if they didnt play.

Like and maybe its just because i play the game i dont exactly go looking up gw2 streamers doing raids or wvw (its boring content imo does not advertise the game very well.)

To an extent the feature itself will/should be free but like with any other feature there needs to be something linked to it to return investment even if that investment is just requiring more play time.

Mounts = mount skins etc.

Legendary armor = play time etc.

You simply do not add features like this in 2019 in a game where you already dont pay much to play, if anything, depending on how lucky you get with free codes from time to time and think that you should get everything for free with no work or buy in required 100% do not agree.

Yes, everyone should been considered, i do agree with this but considering anet does not know who uses arc and who does not and cannot seed data behind arc you cant not fault them for setting a number that is too low for a minority of players when they dont bother with arc itself from the start. Players are blaming anet here for bad design and slamming them like they are and out cast who has sinned when anet could not have possibly known how many people use arc and how many builds people who use arc have per character.

I think a better plan would have been base free to an extent with a built in in-game system to unlock potentially everything for free with what would be the equivalent to play time through collections or crafting quest etc.

This way if you do want it all for free you still dont get it without some sort of investment. Overall this would have been the smarter way to do it as not only do you please the majority and the minority you keep the minority playing as they now have something to work toward if they want all slots for free.

- Dedicated players will grind for something to obtain it for free if you allow them to do so.

- This could remove an overflow of useless mats we have floating around in the game which could be a good thing.

It would be nice to have a quest that has you see profession trainers around the world of tyria much like the skyscale quest had you run around alot. You do a bunch of things for them based on your base profession with some minor variations from time to time and slowly unlock more slots on your account for free.

That said the total number of build slots is still a anet thing they might change. I dont think 24 as that max number is a set in stone number its probably just a safe number till they see how it rolls on launch as i also said anet has no way of knowing data on what players who have 30 builds per character.

>

> Like it doesnt make any sense. Apparently the dedicated community isnt big enough to warrant proper development for their respective modes (Raids, PvP, WvW and Fractals) but are big enough to actually make a considerable amount of money that has to be worth more than the backlash over buildtemplates?

^ lol if this aint the truth (at least if im understanding you correctly)

The whole issue over templates is that people got spoiled over arc templates and are upset that anet basically didnt just rip off copy the arc template system because the new system currently does not work for people who have 6 characters or more with 14-30 builds each. I doubt anet will ever tell us any time soon as to why they chose not to do that but i mean there are probably a few reasons you could guess.

- its cheap (and possibly illegal) to copy someone else's work and charge money for it (+ people would still complain).

- its also cheap to copy import someone else's work into your big franchise game and could come off as a bad look.

- possibly security risk considering arc's been 3rd part for 2 years where anyone could have figured out how it works.

- there are other underlying issues that that system poses for future systems they want to implement that they have yet to tell us about.

- anet sees server side saving as a big asset that some players might want.

Just to take a few guesses off the top of my head

> @"Hugs.1856" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.

> > > "Yes we want this feature"

> > > Anet gives feature

> > > "No we dont want it"

> > And at the end of the day, "some people" are a tiny minority.

> >

> > For 99% of the people these templates will either be:

> > - Same as now because they wont even use them

> > or

> > - An improvement

>

> I think the same : this system is a straight up, **free**, significant upgrade for the vast majority of players.

>

> The issue is that it's a downgrade for the most dedicated players, who lose a key feature, no matter how much they are willing to pay for.

>

> I am thankful to Anet for the implementation but I am not sure it's wise to upset your most dedicated players. Especially the crazy ones who went through the trouble of having full legendary gear.

>

> It's a pity they had to choose between upsetting these players or touching the inventory code.

From a business perspective in my personal opinion i think its better to try and draw the majority over the few big players. Yes its nice to keep some big ticket players around but almost any thing can upset someone who plays by those standards.

You saw how much flack they got for inserting legendary runes and sigils.

Almost every patch will consist of your definition of "The most dedicated players" being upset in some way or another.

I might not own legendary armor but being some one who has played for 7 years and who plays at least a few hours per day almost on the daily i like to consider myself as a pretty dedicated. All be it casual.. but still dedicated (thats a pretty flexible word). I also think this free update will work wonders for what I play and that coming from someone who dips into a bit of all 3 game modes.

As some one else said when you use that word "by who's standards?"

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > If person has 30kp but group wants 70kp they have accessed the content and will be turned down without knowing what their skill level is i should have been more clear so it was not to be assumed that person trying to join group would have 0kp. In alot of cases some raid bosses are easy enough where a person can pick up on mehcanics on the first or 2nd run through. Depends on the role they are playing. In the case of a dps role which is generally the easiest role to take i think that immidately turning some one down just because of a lower or lesser kp value than requested makes the whole system a bit stupid. Considering ive had people with 200+ kp stepping in oils on demios. >_>

>

> Of course, but where do you set the limit. My former raid squad could easily carry 3-4 players at Cairn although we weren't a high skilled speed run group just a static with routine experience. Sometimes we took players with us for free and I'm sure we weren't the only one so other players can profit although most lfgs want to have a certain amount of KPs/LIs.

> In pugs it's harder to set a limit and with only letting people participate that have KPs you lower the probability of a failure. I mean I had enough low + high KPs runs where the squad disbanded because we couldn't get sh_t done. And all of these runs are very frustrating - **for everyone tryharding** - because you as an individual know that you are not responsible for the consistent failure. And since one isn't the only one it is just logical that you try to use a measurement of experience as entry barrier to ensure that no failure will occur. Seriously, I even hated it in my static to wipe more than 2 times on mediocre bosses and even worse wiping on easy bosses - wiping on Cairn, MO or Samarog is a shame! High KP groups **are not** for learning or training. They are built to achieve a smooth and quick run a.k.a. "Hello! Ready? Go! Bye bye!" To teach someone even if it is one single person does not belong into those groups - every minute lost is wasted time because every single member of the group usually guarantees the kill in one go.

Yes thought based on my experience or maybe i just look at all the wrong times i often see more high kp requirement groups than i see normal pug runs or training runs like alot more.

Like i said dont think its the entire problem its just something that has happened as a result of people striving to achieve that success its kind of a loop thing that circles back around.

At this point i only do runs with a group of friends not because i dont know the content just because i know at least ill be able to play the content as im some one who does not have high kp on some of these bosses yet despite knowing how the mechanics work on them having cleared them multiple times. We are not the best group and some of the people in the group are very much still at the training level but in any case its just like "oh well" either you

- Know people who will get you in

- Hope you can find trainings for the things you want to do or clear around the times you can play

- Or just dont play the content

This is my end game experience of gw2 and i was it was a bit more open just within the game itself but that cant be helped.

Like ive said there have also been instances where people show up with 200kp legendary armor etc etc and still make mistakes as if they have never played the content before.

- Why are you getting knocked off demios's lower play form

- Why are you stepping in oil

- Did you just stand on spikes at MO????LOL

Im pretty casual so it takes a while for me to get frustrated usually the first several times things like this happen its pretty funny to me at least.

> @"Dagger.2035" said:

> The stealth design for this game should have been fixed the first year the game came out. They should have never allowed a weapon set to have both a smoke field and a leap or blast finisher. This would still allow combos to provide stealth but it would require a weapon swap or a utility skill to do so.

>

> I just hope that they realize their mistake with deadeye and focus their nerfs on that elite spec. To start it should not be able to remove revealed. I don’t like that they keep adding counters to counters. This elite spec introduced a lot of issues with unblockable projectiles too. It’s probably the reason why Dagger Storm uses evasion now and has little counterplay.

>

>

Tbh i would have liked to see a camouflage mechanic like some other games have.

Stealth makes you appear translucent (like a friendly looks under stealth) and though you can see this translucent invisible figure you cant not directly target them or see their name or health bar this also disables a large majority of skills against them as many skills require a target lock. Only once they are beyond a certain distance from you (say past 600) do they become basically completely invisible. This would have allowed perma stealth builds to be fun to play while also being fair and allowing some forms of counter-play so they just dont get back stabs for free.

This could have been done for all forms of stealth.

TBH just skill split

in spvp perma stealth is not viable you cant cap or de cap points while perma stealth, You also should technically not be getting 1 shot by a backstab if you are full hp. Condi thief is more viable and works more effectively anyways.

In wvw perma stealth might be a problem. Dial the values back a bit on the skills in wvw only

Or do what this guy said

>@"Dagger.2035"

>Also why not simplify things and have all stealth attack skills reveal you instead of using the clunky cool down solution.

Problem solved.

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> >

> > >

> > > You are right the correct analogy would be

> > > Neighbor allows you to use his wifi till you get your own internet service setup

> > > **2 years later**

> > > "What do you mean I cant use your wifi anymore? Yours was working just fine for free."

> > > Neighbor insist that it was only suppose to be temporary and that you are consuming his bandwidth and that you should get your own now that you are able to do so. He even goes as far to ask if you would like him to help get you started. He ask questions so he can point you at the service plan thats cost effective and one that will work for you needs.

> > > "But yours is already there why cant i just use yours. I should be able to just keep using yours it works for me. No bob i dont care that your kids cant play candy crush. Whats the new password?"

> > >

> > >

> >

> > HM - about analogy.

> >

> > Let's say you live in a house paying a rent. You ask the owner for internet services and the answer is that he cannot offer you this. A friend is giving you internet for free.

> > **2 years later**

> > The owner tells you that your friend internet line is not allowed anymore in his house. Instead he will provide you internet from his company - now offering internet too. But, the internet connection provided is slower, with a smaler bandwith and it is not free. If the speed and band is not on your liking you can pay extra to upgrade it. But even so, at maximum capacity the circuit will be less performant than what you had for free before.

> >

> > What you say? Time to find another ~~game~~ house?

>

> But this current house has big rooms, a garden, hot water, electricity and many other things other houses may not have.

> Is a "not perfect internet line" enough of a reason to change house?

I think it just depends on the person but in my case yes unless im forced by some other reason im not going to buy/ live in a house that gets no internet when its something i use on the daily. Imo the interent bill is just as important as the water and electricity bills in 2019. There was a point where i thought otherwise but not so much anymore.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Thats not a garbage business practice if you never intended for that service to be part of your business in the first place what on earth are you talking about.

> Actually, they hoped to have it ready for initial GW2 launch. They just never managed to get to it (and one of the reasons for it was because the launch was rushed - we have Pandas to blame for that). And after launch many things that were supposed to be there but didn't get done due to rushed launch (like _graphics engine performance optimization_) just got abandoned for a loong time.

To be honest I would like to see proof of this. I dont recall such a thing.

>

> > This feature was never intended to be part of guild wars 2 originally along with so many other features which likely include

> > - Mounts

> Mounts are a complicated subject. Yes, they did say at some point they won't be in the game at launch, and their attitude towards them later wasn't exactly positive (until they introduced them in PoF). On the other hand, mounts were mentioned as one of the features they wanted to introduce in GW1 (in Utopia) and couldn't due to engine limitations. So, mounts are one of the reasons for why we even have GW2 in the first place.

>

Thats not how i remember this conversation. I recall when asked about mounts they said it was not technically possible for them to do (at the time) as they thought there was no way that they could get it to work through technical limitations of the game.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > So let me ask you this

> > If kp is needed with access but you are not telling me that i should not be accosiating with that very thing but thats the very thing its used for.

> > You also say its a poor method of measuring exp.

> > But how can you measure a persons exp if they do not have access to even join that content.

> Obviously, someone that has never accessed the content, has zero (or near zero) experience with that content.

If person has 30kp but group wants 70kp they have accessed the content and will be turned down without knowing what their skill level is i should have been more clear so it was not to be assumed that person trying to join group would have 0kp. In alot of cases some raid bosses are easy enough where a person can pick up on mehcanics on the first or 2nd run through. Depends on the role they are playing. In the case of a dps role which is generally the easiest role to take i think that immidately turning some one down just because of a lower or lesser kp value than requested makes the whole system a bit stupid. Considering ive had people with 200+ kp stepping in oils on demios. >_>

>

> >

> > Even if what you say is true then the result is the same people who cant pug or easily have access to trainings will not grow very fast at all. Yet people come here asking why others are bad. Well there is a link somewhere.

> Indeed. And the link is, that _this content is difficult_.

>

> > > People really need to stop talking about the method of gate keeping as the reason for the gate keeping. Those 2 are not the same and never will be. There will always be some kind of gatekeeping if content is difficult enough. Worst form would be guild only runs because access to those would be completely closed to public players.

> >

> > sorry to say i don't agree and you can take that how you will. Gate keeping should always be considered.

> > I agree that there will always be some kind of gate keeping my argument is not that gate keeping should vanish completely just that it slows people from being able to expand their skills and knowledge by a great deal.

> You're right. But the reason, again, is not gatekeeping by itself. The reason for that lies in _why_ people gatekeep the content. Hint: no matter how badly you might think about raiders, for the most part they aren;t doing it to limit players' access to the content. They are only doing it to increase their own chances of succes when running it. In order to do something about that gatekeeping, you first need to do something about the reason for it.

This is understandable and this is not what i have the problem with. Although this process in itself to some one looking to get into end game is sort of the problem as i said new players wont be obviously pointed in the right directions in alot of cases (i was not) the only reason i got involved with raids after so long was because a friend asked me if i wanted to try them out.

> Talking about gatekeeping and how it is a problem without doing anything to address the original reason for it accomplishes exactly nothing.

Well my issue was not specifically gatekeeping its how the gatekeeping slows and prevents the learning progress of newer players. If players are not given enough time to learn and experiment be it with trainings or normal group runs you can expect them to maximize the potential of their class in a raid boss encounter.

Should i bring extra pulls?

Should i bring a projectile block or reflect?

Should i bring more CC?

Should i change my rotation slightly in exchange for x skill that will benefit the group.

A persons dps could change greatly if they know how to maximize their play style at the appropriate time and to bring different tools and not whats just considered to be the standard while some dps roles do not have tools that change much others do.

Especially the case with dps role players you need to know when you should make changes on do odd ball things on the fly. Healers are expected to know what tools to bring thats why their roles are harder, tanks know what tools to bring, Dps is pretty much standard what fits into your base rotation unless some one tells you otherwise or you figure it out on your own.

As i said as I would expect not many new players will grasp this easily or quickly with trainings alone and some people may not get to run trainings as much as people think they do. Even if you have a lot of training exp in a certain raid wing you cant not apply this experience to all other wings as different mechanics require different tools and play styles.

In short gatekeeping is not the direct issue but it certainly is smaller part of it i like to think.

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

> > > >

> > > > Meanwhile dp is....

> > >

> > > You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...

> > >

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > > No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

> > > >

> > > > CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.

> > > > Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.

> > > >

> > > > That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.

> > > >

> > > > They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...

> > > >

> > > > Does this cover your question?

> > >

> > > At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.

> >

> > You skipped right over the main problem

> >

> > So by your logic it means the counter play to fighting a mesmer with CI was to simply not use skills? Allows them to load you up with condi? Do what ever it is they wanted for free? Keep in mind not every class has a solid source of constant stability which could be stolen by arcane thievery which is quick, has minimal tell, and is unblockable.

> >

> > To talk like getting interrupts was uncommon is being kind of silly.

> > Lets be real it does not take much to get an interrupt, don't sit here and pretend like it did like it was some rare occurrence. It was so common that everyone and their mother was running it so that means that it must have been pretty easy to do.

> >

> > Against a thief even if you cannot hit them easily (same can be said for mirage) if you have condi cleans in your kit you can counteract them. Their builds also dont hinge on the idea that your target is locked down without the power to use skills, move, or dodge all at the same time either which allows for a wide range of counterplay. There are multiple ways and time to react when a condi theif comes in on you assuming your hp is not already low. IF you clear the poison the their pressure drops considerably especially if they unloaded everything to get you at once. There will be a down time before they can hard pressure you again with heavy damage. This does not happen for mirage its consistently high-ish throughout the entire time you fight them with slightly higher burst of application throughout the fight.

> >

> > Lets jump back to mirage... the old CI mirage

> > Mirage's damage is rng but consistently being applied throughout the entire fight no matter how much cleanse you have. You are going to be taking heavy damage after a few seconds time as that is the nature of how how scepter and more so staff Mirage works. On top of this they had the lock down to prevent you from dodging, stop you from using skills, while having the power to dodge multiple times, block attacks, stealth, and gain invulnerability in a pinch. Even right now a mirage's condi pressure is by far more annoying than any condi theif ive bumped into. I would rather fight condi theif all day even if its tasteless than fight condi mirage. And lets not even consider the old CI condi mirage... just no... CI culling was 100% required. I thought the trait was too strong back when chronos were using it but mirage just made it obnoxiously strong. You and many others may not agree but thats your opinion and this is mine.

> >

> > Back to the topic at hand condi thief

> > Do i think its strong? Simply put.... yes i think its very strong.

> > Do i think its a skillful play style? No not really at all but it does not instantly kill you or prevent you from moving, using skills either for 5-10 seconds straight.

>

> You can calm down, i never was defending CI, it was a good move to remove it. But Condithief is at least the same lvl of retardedness. He doesn't need to lock you down, he can just hit you with instant stuff and (now same as Mirage) hit you during dodging with more dodges at hand than a mirage after vigor/adventure rune nerfs. The amount of condis (incl cover condies) is pretty high and can be applied very often and that way too easy.

Cant say i fully agree with that statement.

I think mirage is far more of a problem when it comes to constant application. So long as the mirage wants to stay engaged with you there will be incoming high pressure condition application especially while they have clones up and are using staff. I think only thiefs initial burst application is high everything after that is "meh" at best

I dont think its fair to say thief should be immediately punished for jumping in on you while you are distracted as thats basically then nature of every thief class in most mmo games.

IF you look at it from the other case where they come in at you while you are not distracted its not not as free as you think it might be unless you are running 0 condi clear. The condi builds heavily depending on landing steal + venoms buffed strikes makes the pressure more bursty and not overly constant in my eyes.

Once venoms are out, steal is used, their pressure and damage drops considerably many thief will opt to running short bow after using up melee strikes because choking gas is so good now but hat in itself leaves them kinda open and free depending on what you are playing and what tools you have open to you.