ZDragon.3046
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Posts posted by ZDragon.3046
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> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > > > > > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
> > > > > >
> > > > > > hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> > > > > > I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > > > > > "Yes we want this feature"
> > > > > > Anet gives feature
> > > > > > "No we dont want it"
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
> > > >
> > > > I mean i can agree with you to some extent here
> > > > If it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.
> > > >
> > > > Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.
> > > >
> > > > Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.
> > > >
> > > > In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.
> > > > Mounts = Mount skins
> > > > Masteries = Require x packs
> > > > etc etc
> > > >
> > > > How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.
> > >
> > > And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.
> >
> > Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.
> > See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)
> > See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skin
> > See multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins
> >
> > All of which were missed opportunities
> > It boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.
> >
> > >
> > > Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.
> >
> > Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.
> >
> > Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.
> >
> >
>
> They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.
As much as i hate to say it there is probably a reason why they didnt do this or could not do this.
Ill just get the obvious one out of the way that most people would have the biggest issue with. What game company do you know just steals some one else's work then charges money for it without paying the creator. Further more people would still be here crying about how dare they be charged money for something that was free and is 100% the exact same thing. People would go on about how illegal this was and how anet should be sued for stealing someone's work.
Arc has been out for 2 years plenty of people have had time to peek inside of it and know its ins and outs like the back of their hands. If anet produced the same system there would be no telling how easily people would be able to bend and modify it to their own will. IF arc never was allowed or existed from the start anet possibly could have built the system more similarly to it.
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> @"bravan.3876" said:
> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > @"bravan.3876" said:
> > > Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.
> >
> > Meanwhile dp is....
>
> You have a problem with dp power Thief? :scream: As long as not played with bound it is one of the very few builds left in this game i have respect for...
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:
> > > No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.
> >
> > CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.
> > Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.
> >
> > That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.
> >
> > They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...
> >
> > Does this cover your question?
>
> At least the Mesmer needed to interrupt, Condithief doesn't need to care for anything. Easy to hit instant teleports and dodgechaining what also applies condis when in range of any skill. CI was hard to beat in its retardedness but Condithief managed to win in that regard.
You skipped right over the main problem
So by your logic it means the counter play to fighting a mesmer with CI was to simply not use skills? Allows them to load you up with condi? Do what ever it is they wanted for free? Keep in mind not every class has a solid source of constant stability which could be stolen by arcane thievery which is quick, has minimal tell, and is unblockable.
To talk like getting interrupts was uncommon is being kind of silly.
Lets be real it does not take much to get an interrupt, don't sit here and pretend like it did like it was some rare occurrence. It was so common that everyone and their mother was running it so that means that it must have been pretty easy to do.
Against a thief even if you cannot hit them easily (same can be said for mirage) if you have condi cleans in your kit you can counteract them. Their builds also dont hinge on the idea that your target is locked down without the power to use skills, move, or dodge all at the same time either which allows for a wide range of counterplay. There are multiple ways and time to react when a condi theif comes in on you assuming your hp is not already low. IF you clear the poison the their pressure drops considerably especially if they unloaded everything to get you at once. There will be a down time before they can hard pressure you again with heavy damage. This does not happen for mirage its consistently high-ish throughout the entire time you fight them with slightly higher burst of application throughout the fight.
Lets jump back to mirage... the old CI mirage
Mirage's damage is rng but consistently being applied throughout the entire fight no matter how much cleanse you have. You are going to be taking heavy damage after a few seconds time as that is the nature of how how scepter and more so staff Mirage works. On top of this they had the lock down to prevent you from dodging, stop you from using skills, while having the power to dodge multiple times, block attacks, stealth, and gain invulnerability in a pinch. Even right now a mirage's condi pressure is by far more annoying than any condi theif ive bumped into. I would rather fight condi theif all day even if its tasteless than fight condi mirage. And lets not even consider the old CI condi mirage... just no... CI culling was 100% required. I thought the trait was too strong back when chronos were using it but mirage just made it obnoxiously strong. You and many others may not agree but thats your opinion and this is mine.
Back to the topic at hand condi thief
Do i think its strong? Simply put.... yes i think its very strong.
Do i think its a skillful play style? No not really at all but it does not instantly kill you or prevent you from moving, using skills either for 5-10 seconds straight.
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xxxxxxxxxx
in Thief
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > Hate to say it but i dont agree.
> > > >
> > > > Frustration level vs Condi thief 7/10
> > > > Frustration level vs Power evade/staff thief 6/10
> > > > Frustration level vs Perma stealth thief 8.5/10
> > > > Frustration level vs Sage mantra firebrand 10/10
> > > > Frustration level vs Any form of staff / scepter mirage 12/10
> > >
> > > This as far as my frustrations seems close. staff DD being OP is just lol
> >
> > annoying? Yes
> > Op hardly.
> >
> > To be frank with you there are warriors out there who dodge almost just as much as daredevils do and can dishout more damage and hold more pressure on you while doing it with stronger cc's and abetter blocking skill to boot.
> >
> > We can agree to disagree ;)
>
> I think u quoted wrong person as I was agreeing with u. Or u miss understood my post.
Glad you pointed this out i think i just miss understood you hahah thanks would have never caught it
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xxxxxxxxxx
in Thief
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Hate to say it but i dont agree.
> >
> > Frustration level vs Condi thief 7/10
> > Frustration level vs Power evade/staff thief 6/10
> > Frustration level vs Perma stealth thief 8.5/10
> > Frustration level vs Sage mantra firebrand 10/10
> > Frustration level vs Any form of staff / scepter mirage 12/10
>
> This as far as my frustrations seems close. staff DD being OP is just lol
annoying? Yes
Op hardly.
To be frank with you there are warriors out there who dodge almost just as much as daredevils do and can dishout more damage and hold more pressure on you while doing it with stronger cc's and abetter blocking skill to boot.
We can agree to disagree ;)
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> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > > > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
> > > >
> > > > hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> > > > I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
> > > >
> > > > Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
> > > >
> > > > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > > > "Yes we want this feature"
> > > > Anet gives feature
> > > > "No we dont want it"
> > > >
> > >
> > > Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
> > >
> > > If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
> > >
> > > Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
> >
> > I mean i can agree with you to some extent here
> > If it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.
> >
> > Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.
> >
> > Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.
> >
> > In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.
> > Mounts = Mount skins
> > Masteries = Require x packs
> > etc etc
> >
> > How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.
>
> And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.
Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.
See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)
See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skin
See multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins
All of which were missed opportunities
It boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.
>
> Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.
Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.
Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.
-
xxxxxxxxxx
in Thief
Hate to say it but i dont agree.
Frustration level vs Condi thief 7/10
Frustration level vs Power evade/staff thief 6/10
Frustration level vs Perma stealth thief 8.5/10
Frustration level vs Sage mantra firebrand 10/10
Frustration level vs Any form of staff / scepter mirage 12/10
-
I think either the mantras need to be toned down or the tomes need to be toned down by a good deal.
Firebrand is still over-tuned when it does not need to be because guardian is such a strong well balanced foundation for the elite spect to stand on unlike so many others.
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> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:
> No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.
CI stoped people from being able to react and paly at all.
Condi theif still allows a person time to react and make a play... simple really.
That said condi theif is nuts but ive never not had a chance to retaliate unlike with mirage CI which did not allow this due to daze + immobilize at the same time.
They certainly are not easy to kill or catch but at least i can clear the condi and not just instantly die like when fighting CI mirage...
Does this cover your question?
-
> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > > >
> > > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > > >
> > > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > > >
> > > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > > >
> > > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> > >
> > > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
> >
> > hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> > I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
> >
> > Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
> >
> > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > "Yes we want this feature"
> > Anet gives feature
> > "No we dont want it"
> >
>
> Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
>
> If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
>
> Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
I mean i can agree with you to some extent here
If it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.
Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.
Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.
In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.
Mounts = Mount skins
Masteries = Require x packs
etc etc
How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.
-
> @"Curennos.9307" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Curennos.9307" said:
> > > They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.
> >
> > You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.
> >
> > Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.
> >
> > If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol
>
> Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.
>
> It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.
For more clarification
Thats not a garbage business practice if you never intended for that service to be part of your business in the first place what on earth are you talking about.
This feature was never intended to be part of guild wars 2 originally along with so many other features which likely include
- Masteries
- Mounts
- Elite specializations
- Raids
etc etc
So there is a reason as to why it took so long to be implemented.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > Raids have a catch 22
> > > > Most groups want people to present kill proof
> > > > New players wont have kill proof
> > > >
> > > > How can a new player present kill proof if they never get to play the content.
> > > > Overall unless you know some one who is going to lead and organize the raid itself you dont get to go. Every once in a while a kind stranger will offer trainings but still thats not enough.
> > >
> > > I have yet to see a trainig raid for new players which demands kill proof.
> >
> > You didnt read what i wrote properly try again.
> > I said that groups often require kp
> >
> > I never wrote training groups required kp you didnt read properly dont insert words in my mouth
> >
>
> Yes, I corrected your comment since you made a general argument which is faulty in multiple places. New players should not be joining non trainng runs to begin with. As such your complaint that groups require KP is of no consequence to new players since they shouln't be running in KP groups to begin with.
No thanks
I appreciate your attempts but you didn't read properly or you chose to purposely respond improperly.
There was no need to correct something that was not incorrect lets have a serious conversation and stop beating around the bush. IF you are going to take everything with this kind of mind set and approach i wont bother talking to you because in the end it wont matter what i say you will just "correct me" as you see fit.
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > No, Dhuum or other more difficult bosses are not new raid player material. Yet even those have trainings which often state no KP but only knowledge of the mechanics (from sources like videos or guides).
> > This is obvious but regardless how can you get a not new raid player into these raids if they always require kp being new or not new does not change anything. A person can be experienced in every wing except wing 5 and and possibly still wont be able to get in because he has no kp from that wing despite his experience.
> > As i said catch 22
> >
>
> There is training runs and kill with less KP or no KP trainings for more difficult bosses. These are more seldom in PUG and LFG and more common in raid guilds and discords. Getting experience on difficult raids via LFG is a lot more diificult than it has to be. Which makes sense for content which was designed for organized groups.
I already know this which is why i said most groups (didnt include the word training) require kp. THIS means that im speaking about non training runs.
And then there are training runs which generally dont require kp but they are far and few. Say some one wants to learn wing 4 there might not be an open training run for wing 4 for hours, days, weeks, on a persons time frame in which they can play. This is way vet or average raiders saying oh people should just do training if they want to join is not feasible. If some one can only play weekends for a few hours and no training runs pop up for the wings they are looking for in that time frame they cannot get kp.
I play daily and when i was looking for training runs they were very few in number. Even if a training run pops up if there are no spot for the role you are trying to take you cannot get in.
My point is that your faith in training runs is just a bit too high then farther down in this you say KP is a poor measure of skill.
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > People cant learn to get better if others wont help them
> > > > Even if some one is pulling bad dps numbers there are raids were one if not several players can be slacking and the raid still be cleared with relative ease.
> > > > Suggest them to practice their builds and give them resources but dont just insta kick them. Most players if they really want to learn and get better will do so very quickly if you give them a hand.
> > > >
> > > > The issue is that people dont give that hand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You give that hand in trainings, not during clears.
> >
> > As i said catch 22 prime example right here.
> > Trainings dont happen as often as you think. Even when they do it does not mean they are always successful either.
> > If a person can only do trainings all the way up to 50-75kp do you know the ridiculous amount of time this would require some bosses dont even get training runs commonly.
> >
>
> Trainings are regular and daily, by the dozens and more groups. There is trainings discords with thousands of players. Yes, if you limit yourself to the ingame LFG only you will not have access to all training runs.
How will an average player know this?
You know this
I know this
How will someone who just mastered t4 fractals know this and he is looking to get into raids for the first time?
>
> If people want to LFG and public all their raids, then their path will be more difficult. There is tons of guilds recruiting all the time, and most do not care about KP. On the contrary, most raid guilds would love to take in semi experienced players who already know the basics.
This is the only sensible thing you have said so far. And this maybe true with the exception of the word "tons" That might be going a bit over the top and it still does not mean that a player will have the time or option to join that guilds training run if the runs occur at a time where the player is unable to access the game.
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > Thats why strikes are going to become a thing. Hopefully without generating kill proof as thats one of the biggest things that splits raid vets, average players who just want to enjoy end game, and new players looking to experience end game. ITs hard to join a raid when the squad leader wants 50+ or 80 kp and you are pretty new to raiding as a whole.
> > >
> > > and strikes will result in the same scenario as raids, just with an automated system in place which will eventually drain the skilled players out if the average performance drops to low. If it's faster to simply get 2-3 friends/guild mates/etc. to fast clear a strike for maximum reward, that's what experienced players will do if the average squad of 10 randoms has issue clearing the strike.
> >
> > If anet does it properly that wont happen
> > The issue is that right now as easy as the current strike is a 3-5 exp man can do it with plenty of time to spare a pug of 5-7 can do it with plenty of time to spare 10 is not even a challenge. So while you are doing it with your friend there wont ever be a situation where a player is instantly kicked for something like kp.
> >
> > Raids do not work like strikes there is no public join with pugs because pug groups still ask for kp.
>
> No, you are associating KP with access. KP is a poor method of measuring a players experience. Experience will ALWAYS get measured with more difficult content in some way or another, or more experienced players will start running in closed groups because the risk becomes to high of taking in terrible players.
So let me ask you this
If kp is needed with access but you are not telling me that i should not be accosiating with that very thing but thats the very thing its used for.
You also say its a poor method of measuring exp.
But how can you measure a persons exp if they do not have access to even join that content.
Even if what you say is true then the result is the same people who cant pug or easily have access to trainings will not grow very fast at all. Yet people come here asking why others are bad. Well there is a link somewhere.
>
> People really need to stop talking about the method of gate keeping as the reason for the gate keeping. Those 2 are not the same and never will be. There will always be some kind of gatekeeping if content is difficult enough. Worst form would be guild only runs because access to those would be completely closed to public players.
sorry to say i don't agree and you can take that how you will. Gate keeping should always be considered.
I agree that there will always be some kind of gate keeping my argument is not that gate keeping should vanish completely just that it slows people from being able to expand their skills and knowledge by a great deal.
Its harder possibly you might know for new players to get involved, Even with this swell of info you have provided which some of is true it does not mean its dead obvious for new players looking to get into end game. I know for me it was not the case. ;)
-
> @"Vinceman.4572" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Thats why strikes are going to become a thing. Hopefully without generating kill proof as thats one of the biggest things that splits raid vets, average players who just want to enjoy end game, and new players looking to experience end game. ITs hard to join a raid when the squad leader wants 50+ or 80 kp and you are pretty new to raiding as a whole.
>
> Maybe we won't see KPs for strikes but it has already begun: Today someone didn't port to the shrine within 1 minute after the commander said all should port. The player was instantly kicked by him.
> So, in the future I expect to see more of such stuff and players that are not heavily interested in this content and/or the rewards will avoid it. You need to have a special mindset and to not be discouraged by such a__holes and a lot of the GW2 players are just not into that kind of stuff.
There is a fine line between ignorance and lack of skill/experince your example just shows ignorance which is 100% something someone should be kicked for.
He was asked and did not comply for a simple task.
With raids simply saying "Do mechanic right 100% or kick" is not the same thing even more so if some one has only done the encounter a few times. RNG factor comes into play and something might happen in a way they did not expect resulting in them failing said mechanic in which case i dont think the person should be kicked.
KC, Slothasur, and Souless Horror are good bosses that have a great rng factors that can 100% screw a person up.
-
> @"Curennos.9307" said:
> They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.
You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.
Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.
If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol
-
> @"Dawdler.8521" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > "Yes we want this feature"
> > Anet gives feature
> > "No we dont want it"
> And at the end of the day, "some people" are a tiny minority.
>
> For 99% of the people these templates will either be:
> - Same as now because they wont even use them
> or
> - An improvement
Yeh you are right pretty much.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Raids have a catch 22
> > Most groups want people to present kill proof
> > New players wont have kill proof
> >
> > How can a new player present kill proof if they never get to play the content.
> > Overall unless you know some one who is going to lead and organize the raid itself you dont get to go. Every once in a while a kind stranger will offer trainings but still thats not enough.
>
> I have yet to see a trainig raid for new players which demands kill proof.
You didnt read what i wrote properly try again.
I said that groups often require kp
I never wrote training groups required kp you didnt read properly dont insert words in my mouth
>
> No, Dhuum or other more difficult bosses are not new raid player material. Yet even those have trainings which often state no KP but only knowledge of the mechanics (from sources like videos or guides).
This is obvious but regardless how can you get a not new raid player into these raids if they always require kp being new or not new does not change anything. A person can be experienced in every wing except wing 5 and and possibly still wont be able to get in because he has no kp from that wing despite his experience.
As i said catch 22
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > People cant learn to get better if others wont help them
> > Even if some one is pulling bad dps numbers there are raids were one if not several players can be slacking and the raid still be cleared with relative ease.
> > Suggest them to practice their builds and give them resources but dont just insta kick them. Most players if they really want to learn and get better will do so very quickly if you give them a hand.
> >
> > The issue is that people dont give that hand.
> >
>
> You give that hand in trainings, not during clears.
As i said catch 22 prime example right here.
Trainings dont happen as often as you think. Even when they do it does not mean they are always successful either.
If a person can only do trainings all the way up to 50-75kp do you know the ridiculous amount of time this would require some bosses dont even get training runs commonly.
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Thats why strikes are going to become a thing. Hopefully without generating kill proof as thats one of the biggest things that splits raid vets, average players who just want to enjoy end game, and new players looking to experience end game. ITs hard to join a raid when the squad leader wants 50+ or 80 kp and you are pretty new to raiding as a whole.
>
> and strikes will result in the same scenario as raids, just with an automated system in place which will eventually drain the skilled players out if the average performance drops to low. If it's faster to simply get 2-3 friends/guild mates/etc. to fast clear a strike for maximum reward, that's what experienced players will do if the average squad of 10 randoms has issue clearing the strike.
If anet does it properly that wont happen
The issue is that right now as easy as the current strike is a 3-5 exp man can do it with plenty of time to spare a pug of 5-7 can do it with plenty of time to spare 10 is not even a challenge. So while you are doing it with your friend there wont ever be a situation where a player is instantly kicked for something like kp.
Raids do not work like strikes there is no public join with pugs because pug groups still ask for kp.
>
> Net result: skilled players go in organized and as semi statics low manning the content. Random low skill players are auto paired with other low skill players. Everyone inbetween stops doing strikes.
Strikes wont be as hard as raids as anet has said so i dont think pugs will have an issue clearing them.
> All of that with decent strike rewards mind you, which are currently not present. That's pretty much where the current strike is headed right now, even at its very low difficulty.
The current strike was 100% meant to be low difficulty. Its meant to introduce players who possibly have never done fractals or raids to an instanced boss. They did say that difficulty will be increasing in episode 1 and 2.
-
> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:
> Same thing with training raids, players asume that they dont need to know their class or rotation because its a training. However they will make said training alot harder for others to train when they simply cant pull their own weight. I always hear that damage is low because players are new to encounter, and that makes me think.. does that really matter? Lets take gorseval for example, it has a minor dps check. Is there really any mechanics that could hold your damage back, other than not knowing your own class.
With gorseval yes actually a lot of players dont know that some players dont know that some classes can get away with hitting him while he is pounding while some dont.
Having passive retaliation some professions can actually get away with hitting him and out healing it guardians and sometimes berserkers being prime examples with their heals which will out heal the passive retaliation damage and the burst of damage from the ground.
Then you have weavers who dont know that they cannot touch him at all because their skills hit way too many times per second so the retaliation instantly kills them.
You can know your rotation and not think about things like this and still cause massive problems.
As a necro on gorseval i generally dont stop slapping him during the pound phase because of my high hp pool and our healers generally keep me topped off standing in his corrosive ground burst dont ever get close to killing me (it would take about 3 of them to down me) in some cases there is more to knowing your own class. Practicing your rotations on a golem and fighting a raid boss itself is not the same thing. You have to be adaptable (and not in the sense that you play alot of classes) but in the sense that you have to know what you can and cant get away with based on what you are playing.
Should you clear the orbs for the group because no one else is doing it or not?
Should you dps a bit harder during the pound phase because you know you can get away with it or not?
Should the commander of the raid make changes to do something out of the norm if an issue keeps happening that prevents the group from clearing.
Maybe after the 33% we should just use an updraft to confirm the kill because our dps is a tiny bit low and the group has wiped 3 times at this point.
The solution is not always insta kick.
Knowing your class is one thing knowing how to make the most of your class on a given situation is another.
-
Raids have a catch 22
Most groups want people to present kill proof
New players wont have kill proof
How can a new player present kill proof if they never get to play the content.
Overall unless you know some one who is going to lead and organize the raid itself you dont get to go. Every once in a while a kind stranger will offer trainings but still thats not enough.
People cant learn to get better if others wont help them
Even if some one is pulling bad dps numbers there are raids were one if not several players can be slacking and the raid still be cleared with relative ease.
Suggest them to practice their builds and give them resources but dont just insta kick them. Most players if they really want to learn and get better will do so very quickly if you give them a hand.
The issue is that people dont give that hand.
Thats why strikes are going to become a thing. Hopefully without generating kill proof as thats one of the biggest things that splits raid vets, average players who just want to enjoy end game, and new players looking to experience end game. ITs hard to join a raid when the squad leader wants 50+ or 80 kp and you are pretty new to raiding as a whole.
on the flip side im a pretty casual player ive had 250 kp players go down on and or cause wipes in groups making mistakes i didnt or rarely make. But they present themselves like they are gods. overall the kp system the raid community has made has a fair share of problems.
-
> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > >
> > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > >
> > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > >
> > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> >
> > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> >
> > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
>
> I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
"Yes we want this feature"
Anet gives feature
"No we dont want it"
-
> @"Ashantara.8731" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > no charr playable race #thumbsdown :#
>
> Is that why your avatar is a centaur? ;)
No but the centaur just looked the coolest at the time XD
I have not gone back to see if any cool charr have been added lol
-
> @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > @"Trise.2865" said:
> > Third-party addons have *never* been "legal" nor "allowed". They chose not to punish ARC templates, which is legally distinct, because killing it was more trouble than it was worth.
> Can you explain to me, how having Anet's Game Security Lead work directly with Arc developer in order to make the addon allowed did not make the addon allowed? It's not like they just decided to close their eyes and ignore its existence. They flat out told the developer "if you'll do it this way, we're okay with it". For the last 2 years arc was 100% legit. Some people try to make it something that was "illegal" in order to make an argument, but it is simply not true. And again, like i said before - if, in order to have an argument, you need to misrepresent something that forms its core, then you might consider that you don't really have an argument at all.
>
Yes and look how anet is paying for that mistake now.
I can promise you if they ever get the option to do something like Arc again they will turn it down because it leads to situations like this.
The argument is that people wanted build templates, Anet allowed Arc until they developed their own system, Their own system is now developed, arc will no longer be allowed. Even if it was a LEGAL allowed use the terms of it was that it was to be temporary aka something that does not last forever. The time has now expired learn to deal with it.
If you want to voice why you think arc templates should still be allowed then do what i said in my previous post
- Come up with a very very very very good presentation as to how and why they allow it from a business standpoint.
- Why they should risk the loss of income from time and work invested into what they have so far even if its not what specifically caters to your needs.
There needs to be hard number crunching and strong factual evidence of players who do need a large number of templates, players who do vs dont use arc templates, players who would prefer not to have the feature added vs those who would gladly welcome it. An argument for arc needs to be voice in a certain way. Until you or someone else voices it properly the minority will be all you have which wont lead to it being allowed or anet making changes in their system.
There is already a heavily sided poll out there in the forums that shows people who need a high number of builds slots is a minority so you will also have to go against all of this while presenting your suggestion.
Simply saying my chrono has 28 builds alone and arc fits my needs will not get anet to change there mind that arc should still be allowed.
-
> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cristalyan.5728" said:
>
> > >
> > > HM - about analogy.
> > >
> > > Let's say you live in a house paying a rent. You ask the owner for internet services and the answer is that he cannot offer you this. A friend is giving you internet for free.
> > > **2 years later**
> > > The owner tells you that your friend internet line is not allowed anymore in his house. Instead he will provide you internet from his company - now offering internet too. But, the internet connection provided is slower, with a smaler bandwith and it is not free. If the speed and band is not on your liking you can pay extra to upgrade it. But even so, at maximum capacity the circuit will be less performant than what you had for free before.
> > >
> > > What you say? Time to find another ~~game~~ house?
> > I say sure ill pay (if the service works for what ill use it for thats why you "Communicate and do research")
> > If the service does not work for what ill need aka nets too crappy. Yes i make plans to move out asap and find a new place were I can get good service. Without hesitation.
>
> So, you will pay to have something you had for free. Even if the quality of the payd service is lower.
Once again you are getting the feature for free why do you keep skipping over this. Anet is not forcing people to pay for the build template update if they dont want to.
> Being so generous I imagine that **If the service does not work for what ill need aka nets too crappy** is only for the sake of the debate. Because even a modem 56k connection may be enough for some. Still, you agree that leaving the house is a good and comonsense follow-up. I bet ANet know this also - but you said that the owner will have no problems finding another client. Realy? You also said that in the area are plenty of houses for rent.
Yeah because there are lots of people who have 0 use for the internet. There is a lady next door to me who has nothing but books, cell phone, and antena tv. The amount of time it took for the previous people to move out and her to move in was a snap of the finger.
>
> Yes, when I bought this game I bought it because I liked it. I still like it now. But, during his life this QoL has been demanded by many. And Anet (the owner) stated that it has no intention to work on such a thing. A friend offered this service for free and Anet **agreed**. I won't debate here your statements about the reason of the friend to give it - this is not on the topic. So, we had something (from a friend) and Anet forces us to give it up in order to **buy** the same product. Only less performant.
First off the friend here had no choice but to offer it for free. IF he had charged money for it not only would anet have not allowed it, you wouldnt have paid for it, and that would have been a major lawsuit as it is in most other video games when people make money off services like such. Once more anet is not forcing you to buy anything the feature is coming to the game for free.
> >
> > Also note you left out a fact in your analogy as well
> > The owner should have said you cannot use your friends net because you are getting "your own service" for "free" but it is very limited. If you want a better service then there will be up charge even if its not as good as what your friend was offering.
> > When you make analogies you cant twist the story to be so inaccurate like that. Technically anet is offering this feature for free at its base level which requires 0 upfront cost on the players part. There is only a cost if you want more than the base feature. Dont act like you are being forced to pay because you are not.
> >
> >
> Well, judging from what I saw and I read about this service, what ANet offers is not better. And what ArcDPS offered before is not "very limited".
You are cherry picking the reason i know this is because you totally mixed up my statement
Anet is offering this feature fore free, but it has its "limits"
>
> And I truly struggle to translate/understand the logic of this: **"If you want a better service then there will be up charge even if its not as good as what your friend was offering"**. I want a better service but even after charge it still be less than what I had before (for free). What is the point of charging? But if you **force** the client to pay .... HM ... this remembers me of the not so legal practices of the "syndicates"
Once again no one is forcing you to pay its your option to or not to pay.
When it comes to the better service im refering to anets template feature only obviously at a base it is free, if you want more slots you need to pay. Not sure how more clear that needs to be.
IF you feel you are forced to pay you still have the 2nd option just dont pay lol. Deal with it. Because you skipped the whole communication part this is all you get.
Pay or dont pay
If you didnt leave out the communication part then you have more options.
Just because something is free because some one is letting you get it for free does not mean you should always consider that it will always be free.
Water is free you can get it anywere but it might not always be clean.
If you want reliable clean water you pay for it in some way or form.
You dont complain to the store that premium or average purified water should be free because you can get water for free from the sky.
This is common sense.
-
> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
>
> >
> > You are right the correct analogy would be
> > Neighbor allows you to use his wifi till you get your own internet service setup
> > **2 years later**
> > "What do you mean I cant use your wifi anymore? Yours was working just fine for free."
> > Neighbor insist that it was only suppose to be temporary and that you are consuming his bandwidth and that you should get your own now that you are able to do so. He even goes as far to ask if you would like him to help get you started. He ask questions so he can point you at the service plan thats cost effective and one that will work for you needs.
> > "But yours is already there why cant i just use yours. I should be able to just keep using yours it works for me. No bob i dont care that your kids cant play candy crush. Whats the new password?"
> >
> >
>
> HM - about analogy.
>
> Let's say you live in a house paying a rent. You ask the owner for internet services and the answer is that he cannot offer you this. A friend is giving you internet for free.
> **2 years later**
> The owner tells you that your friend internet line is not allowed anymore in his house. Instead he will provide you internet from his company - now offering internet too. But, the internet connection provided is slower, with a smaler bandwith and it is not free. If the speed and band is not on your liking you can pay extra to upgrade it. But even so, at maximum capacity the circuit will be less performant than what you had for free before.
>
> What you say? Time to find another ~~game~~ house?
I say sure ill pay (if the service works for what ill use it for thats why you "Communicate and do research")
If the service does not work for what ill need aka nets too crappy. Yes i make plans to move out asap and find a new place were I can get good service. Without hesitation.
The difference with your example here is that you know going in to that house what you can and cannot have. Any smart spender researches before they buy. Just like you know when going into guild wars 2 if you research it what you are and are not getting.
Anet never said that guild wars 2 was going to have templates this was request being added due to high demand. IF not having templates is that critical to you and you are a veteran player by all means you surely knew this long before arc templates were ever a thing.
In fact i wouldn't even step foot in that house/ buy that game if the service / feature is critical require is not included. You wont buy a game if you dont like ay of its classes or how it plays. Use common sense.
IF it were me and i was told that up front that the owner was not going to allow or offer internet services i would out right go some where else from the start.
Im not going to hinge myself on the idea that i hope a friend would give me internet. LOL WHO is even crazy enough to make a commitment like this.
Even more so if that friend should not be sharing that service with you via the owners restrictions. Why would he / me take that risk (which is how some people feel about 3rd party addons, even the allowed ones.)
**But** for the sake of humor lets say that we make this commitment and i live in this house paying rent and leeching free internet for 2 or 3 years. (technically i did this for several years irl as most people my age have when living with their parents befor moving out.) As you said the owner comes to me with the deal stated after telling my friend that he can no longer give me free internet services
Because you skipped the communication part in your analogy ill skip it too (even though you should have included it if we are going off of reality.)
I have 2 options with what the owner has proposed.
- This is a deal breaker, i cannot use your services for my needs and this service is far too critical. Leave the house and stop paying rent asap. There are plenty of other places out there that will give me what I need.
- Pay for the service, works fine for me and my needs and Im ok with the price and speed maybe im ok with paying for the extra speed if needed (i currently do this with my own isp i dont have the lowest package they offer lol)
I can promise you the owner wont have a hard time putting some one else in that house even more so if its a strong decent house that can provide the majority of what some one else needs. There are plenty of people who would be happy to pay for it.
Like i told some one else if you stop playing that is your choice not anets.
Also note you left out a fact in your analogy as well
The owner should have said you cannot use your friends net because you are getting "your own service" for "free" but it is very limited. If you want a better service then there will be up charge even if its not as good as what your friend was offering.
When you make analogies you cant twist the story to be so inaccurate like that. Technically anet is offering this feature for free at its base level which requires 0 upfront cost on the players part. There is only a cost if you want more than the base feature. Dont act like you are being forced to pay because you are not.
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no charr playable race #thumbsdown :#
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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > You are right the correct analogy would be
> > Neighbor allows you to use his wifi till you get your own internet service setup
> > **2 years later**
> > "What do you mean I cant use your wifi anymore? Yours was working just fine for free."
> > Neighbor insist that it was only suppose to be temporary and that you are consuming his bandwidth and that you should get your own now that you are able to do so. He even goes as far to ask if you would like him to help get you started. He ask questions so he can point you at the service plan thats cost effective and one that will work for you needs.
> > "But yours is already there why cant i just use yours. I should be able to just keep using yours it works for me. No bob i dont care that your kids cant play candy crush. Whats the new password?"
> If that was the case, it would be completely different. But in this case, there are some interesting differences compared to your story.
> First, it's not our neighbor that is offering us a "service plan", but some other company.
Nope your neighbor offered you free wifi untill you could get your own internet dont add words lol.
> Second, the plan we're being given is an old phone modem bandwidth at 5 times the fiberoptic cable cost.
> Third, our neighbor changed their password to wifi only after the company offering us the new service sent someone to visit him with a shotgun, explaining that it would be in his best interest to stop helping friends.
Well you only spent 2 years leeching off him.
Technically yes internet service providers dont like when you do this because their services are not meant to be shared like that so there is some truth that if you ask your isp is it ok to share my internet with the neighbors or (your friends) of course they will suggest you dont do it for a wide number of reasons.
>
> Does that sound as fine and okay now?
If you are going to break down an analogy at least do it properly and dont leave out key words and dont insert your own. in case you didnt get it ill break it down for you.
Neighbor allows you to use his wifi till you get your own internet service setup
**Arc templates are not a perma solution and will only be a free solution until anet make their own**
2 years later
**the amount of time arc templates have been a thing now anet is working in their own system**
"What do you mean I cant use your wifi anymore? Yours was working just fine for free."
**anets release of templates means you cant use arc anymore**
Neighbor insist that it was only suppose to be temporary and that you are consuming his bandwidth and that you should get your own now that you are able to do so. He even goes as far to ask if you would like him to help get you started. He ask questions so he can point you at the service plan thats cost effective and one that will work for you needs.
**Anet tells you ahead of time that templates are coming, at pax and now through an official news announcement, Anet also ask for feedback and questions about what you like dont like and think should be changed now or rather a week ago was the time to submit such things**
"But yours is already there why cant i just use yours. I should be able to just keep using yours it works for me. No bob i dont care that your kids cant play candy crush. Whats the new password?"
**you still arguing for arc templates in a way while not caring what anyone else says and cherry picking random statements, even going as far to say anet should just scrap the feature as a whole to allow the use of arc cause it fits you.**
>
> > > Besides, seriously, can you even make a point in this discussion _without_ heavily misrepresenting reality?
> > Reality is that on the 29th unless anet says other wise build templates are going away. So instead of complaining about it we should be providing proper feedback to get the system to changed closer to help meet people who have higher build slot requirements.
> Nah, i will just not use the system. This will probably lead to me playing way less than before, but seeing at what else is going on with this game, that's probably for the better.
> > Simply going let me use arc, your design is bad, its too pricey, especially when we dont know the prices for sure wont help anyone.
> Saying "let's wait and see" doesn't help either. From past experience, Anet is way less likely to make any changes after the system has been already introduced. By that point they will simply wait and wait till the complains die down. And we'll be left with the mess.
>
IF you dont use anets feature and play less then thats your choice not anets, if a minority of people play less its not a big deal for anet. Even more so if that minority of people have already heavily or over invested in the game. The money is already made. ITs rough to say and hear but its the sad truth. Most companies be it game companies or any other kind of company will not mind one bit losing a few people if it pleases the majority of the people and gets the majority of people to spend more money.
Is it right? i guess not if you want to get technical but it happens all the time.
For every one person who stops playing because their system wont fit your needs there could be minimum 2 people who will love and adore and gladly pay for and will use the system so long as this is true your choice to play less will not make a change.
its extremely rare for elitist to make up the majority of any game and usually if thats the case the game is dead or been dead for a long time. You dont design features with the idea that they will and should cater most to the elitist. In some rare occasions this does happen (legendary armor, legendary runes / sigils) and in some cases it simply does not. This is one of those moments where it seems like anet is currently aiming for everyone. IF you need to tell anet this is not enough for me you should construct creative feed back and give it to them instead of wasting your time arguing over arc dps and telling people they should be offended by anets choice for what they have laid out so far.
if you need more slots argue for a higher cap and hope anet complies with your feed back
if you think it will be too expensive make suggestions on what you think is a fair price and why or how they should be sold, suggest alternatives for unlocking slots for free with play time even if its a very slow process.
if you want them to continue to allow the use of arc then you need to come up with a very very very very good presentation as to how and why they should do it from a business standpoint. Why they should risk the loss of income from time and work invested into what they have so far even if its not what specifically caters to your needs. There needs to be hard number crunching and strong factual evidence of players who do need a large number of templates, players who do vs dont use arc templates, players who would perfer not to have the feature added vs those who would gladly welcome it. An argument for arc needs to be voice in a certain way and you have yet to present any thing of the sort. Thats no the kind of argument you win by saying "it fits my needs"
There is already a heavily sided poll out there in the forums that shows people who need a high number of builds slots is a minority so you will also have to go against all of this while presenting your suggestion.
With that said this will be the only answer i reply to for you this week. Im not going all out all over again with you for a whole week. Nothing anyone says other than they should allow arc is going to be ok with you so there is no point.
SUNLESS/plague bringer SKYSCALE MOUNT SKIN
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
depending on how dyes looked on it I would considering it a worthy buy