ZDragon.3046
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Posts posted by ZDragon.3046
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> @"Voltekka.2375" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"totaloverride.3240" said:
> > > > @"Trise.2865" said:
> > > > Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.
> > >
> > > tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD
> > >
> > > > @"Lexi.1398" said:
> > > > TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
> > >
> > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:
> > > > Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.
> > >
> > > scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condi
> > > kinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)
> > >
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fix
> > > > I dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.
> > > > Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.
> > >
> > > Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...
> > > proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.
> > > remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?
> > >
> > > now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvW
> > > the moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,
> > > i miss scaring ads in boss fights
> >
> > Thats not correct scourge was adjusted in wvw to try and make them more risky when using their shades but at the same time their shades got considerably more effective which is not a good thing overall for larger zerg fights. Effectively shades got a hard buff in wvw because not having the shade skills go off on you at the same time in wvw does not matter. You are not fighting on the front line so you dont need the effects on you.
> >
> > At the same time because the changes were tied to pve and pvp scourge changed in both modes
> > In pvp Scourge is now too risky to use and the reward is not high enough for the literally lack of soft and hard defense they have.
> > They now have no self protection from shade effects if they have a shade active and become sitting ducks. Or must thrown themselves into the middle of a fight with no defenses and not use shades to keep personal effects. Overall the playstyle is too unbalanced and the trade off is now too heavily balanced in the wrong direction
> >
> > In pve scourge still works its just a bit more clunky as now effects only trigger on the shades as in my example above transfusion for heal scourge will currently teleport you to the shade instead of scourge trying to rez you should you go down. And where is the shade most often located? Its on the boss or some other spot that you probably dont want to be should you go down.
> >
> > Overall scourge needs a total rework of its design at some point in the future. Less boon corruption more effectiveness in some other form thats not just aoe zone control.
> > With the split of pve and pvp now going into effect they can bring the shades back to the scourge in pve and maybe pvp only for a short time as a short term solution.
> >
> > In wvw they need to look at maybe reducing the max range that a shade can be placed. IF you want to defend the front line with your shades then it should-require some risk to place it in the first place.
>
> Scourge boon corruption is a non issue in pve. Powerscourge is a non issue in pve.
Actually boon corrupts in general are a problem in pve just not in the way of how most people think. They are useless in 90% of pve with the exception being some fractals when a instability is applied and some raids and a few bosses in the PoF areas that said even those things dont boon spam enough to warrant the gross amount of boon corrupt built into necormancer over the years. In pve the overwhelming amount of boon corrupt built into skill design lowers the potential qualities that many skills could have in terms of things like condition application, damage, cooldown, barrier application, and utility.
IF you think boon corruption is a non issue in pve then you got it all wrong.
> If you want to talk about wvw, sure. Nerf corrupts (which were already nerfed both via scepter 3 nerf and unending corruption was removed/changed to harbringer shroud, something noone uses). Less boonremoval means more boonspam. We already have enough boonspam...
Clearly you have not seen the post from the dev talking about how from going forward pve balance and design will no longer be tied to pvp and wvw at all and how they pretty much plan to nerf everything across the board in pvp and wvw.
Which includes boons. As he put the general direction its down and that they are primarily looking at nerfs in the future patches. If its good or meta right now its considered to be too strong or stronger than they want it to be.
It was also mentioned that as boon generation / spam is droped there will be a lesser need for boon corrupts which is a good thing as i think the key feature of boon corruption that was suppose to be a unique tool of necromancer has just become a gatekeeping balance tool for the other 8 professions which is just disgusting in general
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I support the quest ideas listed above but personally for me the maps themselves dont do very much. If looking at large scale combat i would like to see the maps do more to change up how large scale combat is taken by players who own a zone and players who dont.
**Environmental effects** from time to time, Similar to how one map has the sand storm every so often. Weather effects now trigger and provide new effects.
* **Day and Night Cycles** - During the day structures slowly regenerate supplies over time in addition to what is gained from delivery from Dolyaks. During the night as some one else said structures upgrade faster. Also taking a structure during the night causes 50% of its progress to transfer to the new zone owner. A t3 tower becomes a t1 tower with 50% progress to t2 for example.
* **Blizzards/ Cold Rain** - Much like the new strike mission map in pve when inside this zone enemy players are given the hypothermia debuff which prevents mounting the warclaw. If a player is mounted when they enter this zone while the blizzard / storm is active their war claw will slowly lose health until they are dismounted. In areas your world controls players can move to the nearest structure/camp they own to gain the koda's flame buff allowing them to continue to mount how ever using this has a lengthy cooldown and only last as a 1 time use till you dismount. Higher chance to trigger at night, only triggers in snow/mountain zones.
* **Fresh Rain** - All players experience greatly reduced incoming condition duration and condition damage, In zones your world controls incoming healing and endurance regeneration is increased by 5%. Can trigger in any zone but more frequent in neutral vegetation zones. (zones with lots of grass, trees, plants etc.)
* **Heat Waves** - All Mounted players take increased damage, as the mount loses hp it moves considerably slower, Mounts cannot regenerate endurance. Unmounted Players have decreased endurance regeneration and boon duration. Higher chance to trigger mid day cycle, cannot trigger in snow/mountain zones. Players can temporarily remove the heatwave debuff by visiting a structure/camp they own to get Hydrated.
These effects will not be active all the time but happen every so often throughout the day / night for short periods. For example Blizzards or cold rain that prevent enemies from mounting might last for 5 or 10 or 15 minutes in the respective zones which prevents mounting for short time frames but not forever.
**Fog of war hiding spots**
* tall grass
* thick corn
* Small bushes
* etc
Would be a nice thing to have access to so long as you are not in combat. A way for people to preform new tricks near smaller objectives or on routes to larger objectives. Once inside you are given camouflage for as long as you remain out of combat. Thus people can check by also walking into blind spot or simply attacking to force someone into combat revealing them.
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> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said :
> > If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.
> In that case I demand to have ambush on shatter instead of on evade then we can talk about no counterpart.
I would actually welcome that change if clones only ambushed by using shatter command. IT gives the Mirage unique shatters and a trade off from core mesmer.
Put ambush attacks with bonus effects on shatters and remove infinite horizon from the game all together. Clone ambush attacks are now balanced by shatter cooldowns
This is PROBABLY how it should have been from the get go.
Mirage cloak shouldnt be doing so much when comboed with a trait like IH while providing freedome to cast without interruption.
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> @"totaloverride.3240" said:
> > @"Trise.2865" said:
> > Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.
>
> tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD
>
> > @"Lexi.1398" said:
> > TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
>
> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:
> > Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.
>
> scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condi
> kinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fix
> > I dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.
> > Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.
>
> Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...
> proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.
> remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?
>
> now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvW
> the moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,
> i miss scaring ads in boss fights
Thats not correct scourge was adjusted in wvw to try and make them more risky when using their shades but at the same time their shades got considerably more effective which is not a good thing overall for larger zerg fights. Effectively shades got a hard buff in wvw because not having the shade skills go off on you at the same time in wvw does not matter. You are not fighting on the front line so you dont need the effects on you.
At the same time because the changes were tied to pve and pvp scourge changed in both modes
In pvp Scourge is now too risky to use and the reward is not high enough for the literally lack of soft and hard defense they have.
They now have no self protection from shade effects if they have a shade active and become sitting ducks. Or must thrown themselves into the middle of a fight with no defenses and not use shades to keep personal effects. Overall the playstyle is too unbalanced and the trade off is now too heavily balanced in the wrong direction
In pve scourge still works its just a bit more clunky as now effects only trigger on the shades as in my example above transfusion for heal scourge will currently teleport you to the shade instead of scourge trying to rez you should you go down. And where is the shade most often located? Its on the boss or some other spot that you probably dont want to be should you go down.
Overall scourge needs a total rework of its design at some point in the future. Less boon corruption more effectiveness in some other form thats not just aoe zone control.
With the split of pve and pvp now going into effect they can bring the shades back to the scourge in pve and maybe pvp only for a short time as a short term solution.
In wvw they need to look at maybe reducing the max range that a shade can be placed. IF you want to defend the front line with your shades then it should-require some risk to place it in the first place.
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> @"Emapudapus.1307" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Emapudapus.1307" said:
> > > Since i am playing mostly **necromancer** PvP (mostly legend in HoT times), these things i think are bloated atm, not fun to play against or use, but necessary because of other powercreep. Also i think there also needs to be splits of traits between elite specialisations since they preform so differently and for one specialisation it can be useless and for other overpowered.:
> >
> > Sorry but im gonna reply to this one cause i see a few things that are concerning and fairly questionable in your suggestions.
> > >
> > > -GS 4 reaper: blind, cripple, boon corrupt, dmg, dark field, longer lasting; too much of everything.
> > Really this just needs to be sped up keep the blind and cripple. Depending on how much boons get culled down depends on if it should keep its corrupt or not
> > > -Spectral walk: too bloated atm, duration too long or removal of condi removal.
> > This is probably fine as is you have to remember necromancer lost its spectral mastery trait and the spectral skills (except spectral armor for some odd reason) were compensated as a result.
> > > -reaper onslaught: too bloated, perma quickness with ferocity too much, previous trait was better. Promotes unhealty oneshot builds.
> > Well there is no such thing as a 1 shot build on necro that simply does not happen right now unless you stand there and let it happen. There is no skill or combo of skills that nukes you from 100-0 in 1.5 seconds in necros kit. Reaper does not do damage that you dont see coming unlike alot of the other professions, ref, mirage, soul beast, etc, Most classes can often survive a full soulsprial even let alone if they dodge its obvious animation.
> > I agree the quickness should be removed from this trait but the ferocity is fine unless we see all other classes also lose ferocity or other similar stat traits. I would suggest making reaper shroud just faster at its base (so its not clunky but also not quickness level fast roughly 30% faster down from 50% that quickness gives) you could easily do this by reducing all the cast times in the reaper kit by 33% of their current base its the same thing as effectively making the skills faster.
> > > -Master of corruption: the effect is too strong. For it to be balanced the original cooldowns have to be too long, extra conditions arent fun for anyone (aka nerf to heal from 24 to 30 sec and 2 conditions on heal use)
> > This makes no sense really. Depending on how long you have been playing you would know that Consume conditions for example use to orginally be 24 seconds and got Nerfed up to 30 seconds with the addition of self vuln application.
> > > -fear of death: bloated trait. It should give you max 50% fear duration which dont make condi duration less valuable.
> > First of all make fear a hard cc then we can talk about cutting its duration. Currently has way too many counters and this makes core un-viable in the pvp setting as fear application is one of its main lines of defense.
> > > -deathly chill: split between reaper-core-scourage.
> > This leads me to think you dont know what you are talking about, or trolling possibly? Because deathly chill is a reaper only trait. There can be no core/reaper/scourge split. Not like this trait is commonly used anyways.
> > > -death perception: should be reverted back to 50% crit (too many dmg modifiers give rise to oneshot builds).
> > Necormancer cannot currently perform a 1 shot build unless you stand there and dont do anything at all. It cant sneak up to you and 1 tap you to death. The old version was far too much crit chance at best reduce the ferocity gain only if other professions also lose ferocity/other stats on their stat bonus traits
> > > -corrupt boon: its not overpowered but as its design atm with many condi cleanses and many boons, its too spamy and low impact (low impact not by itself but from enemies and their cleanses or bloated use of boons)
> > Im not sure its spamy but the only reason necromancer has so many is because so many other professions have a ton of boons that also need to be removed (way more than the necromancer has) and can handle.
> >
> > > And things that got undeserved, unfun changes or made them useless/pointless:
> > >
> > > -Warhorn 5: rework made it prety useless, pointless and unfun, lower range, shorter duration, no cripple, not working with blood traitline for siphons, killing all synergy. Should be rerolled back.
> > I feel like it does not need to totally be re rollled back. How ever the duration that it pulsed over time before should be rolled back. There are some beneifits to having a mobile aoe that does not strike (full counter procs, retaliation procs, shocking aura procs, frost aura procs, etc)
> > > -Parasitic contagion: could be buffed little and working while in shroud or split between scourage and others.
> > I feel like this is one of the traits that should not change till we see how all the other nerfs work out.
> > > -consume condition: shouldnt apply condition on you
> > But you want it when traited to apply 2 conditions and have a higher base cd as stated above???
> > > -Plaguelands: revert to old spell except for scourage, atm its unfun and useless and in vanilla GW2 it was quite interesting spell to use.
> > No point to doing this now imo the old skill did make you tanky but was not that exciting for me personally
> > > -Lichform: rework? I dont know whats its purpuse
> > It may not need a total rework once we see the other nerfs come through but i still think it needs some major QoL if this gets nerfed as it is right now its a dead skill in general. The cd is already too high and the skills are lackluster and clunky.
> > > -Blood bond: it feels little weak atm, before bugfix when it also healed it was good, noone was complaining its too strong.
> > Lol no that was broken you just never saw a good player use it with Signet of suffering. Trust me this trait is fine as it is.
> > > -cold shoulder: (for me personaly) less dmg recieved from chilled enemies was better for me than dmg done to chilled enemies, too many +% dmg modifiers makes dmg bloated.
> > If only chill application was viable in pvp (its currently already not a thing and surely wont be with more reductions coming) At best this trait can be one that meets in the middle with 5% offence 5% damage reduction
> > > -soul eater: unthematic traitline undergone many iteration now it lost its purpose and its too restrictive (like range or not working in shroud) unfun to use.
> > I would say remove the range limit and healing factor from it all together and it might be fine.
> > > -Axe 2: too clunky if ppl use evade or dodge or something on it. Needs quality of life improvements.
> > Lol this is fine as perhaps lower its damage slightly and speed up so that it strikes slightly faster (but can be evaded in a single dodge)
> > > -soul spiral: poison duration could be increased back to before nerf, would help with bruiser role little and if someone wants to go back to condi reaper.
> > No reason to do this as reaper as been slowly going toward the power role. The poison is only there to help combat healing for a short period.
> >
> >
>
> Deathly chill was typo, i ment dhuumfire.
> As for one shots i ment that they promote them and not like they have it. I am just saying that it promotes unhealthy gameplay towards others and unskillfulll, simple low effort/high efficiency gameplay (perma quickness in shroud + free ferocity). In my opinion the quality of gameplay of reaper was greatly diminished since the change (but at thee time needed because of power creep).
> And you misunderstood master of corruption. I ment that because its strong cooldown reduction the original cooldowns are high (even consume condition was nerfed from 24 to 30s), which i think its not good design. And extra condi on you is not fun for anyone, specially on heal.
>
> And why you think blood bond was broken? Necro doeasnt have tank build so it didnt help with unkillable build. Power has to take 2 traitlines to be reliable (curse and blood), which lowers their dmg, same for condi with blood. And 1v1 necro also wasnt broken because of it. Maybe if they tone down everything it will be too strong, but even then i think current version could see some improvements.
imo reaper in a power build struggled to kill anything considering when HoT brought it to the game it was suppose to be the go to melee cleave down spec that was offered for the necromancer. IT was ball means a busier who could 1v3 on a point with ease. (i dont consider that healthy gameplay either) slowly they shifted reaper to a power dps role and to do that it needed marjor tune ups in the power dps department compared to alot of other power dps roles. Even now the base shroud is far too slow to work as a proper power up / effective mechanic. The moment quickness comes off RO its going to feel clunky even more so for players who have gotten very use to RO now over the years.
As for blood bond other classes dont get to keep their abusive skills and traits, note ranger gs auto chain evade, and the obnoxious lockdown (that was CI mirage) why should necro get to keep something like that thats not an intentional thing. I try to look at things from a fair perspective i dont agree that its bugged state was healthy for the game for the few players who did know about it. (alot of people never knew it was bugged like that)
Moving back to reaper i think they need to remove the quickness from RO in both pve and pvp and maybe drop the ferocity in pvp only down to maybe 150 (if other professions also lose bonus stats on their traits as well because it would be fair that way). From there give RO a new mechanic perhaps it modifies one of the skills in the reaper shroud kit instead.
But they also need to compensate the default reaper shroud in all game modes making it faster overall say 30% down from 50% so it feels comfortable to use and not clunky slow. Just don't bump it to quickness levels of speed. this opens up trait selections in all 3 grandmasters and allows reaper to have higher potential in pve when grouped with other players who can give it quickness.
This improves its top end power in pve when grouped
Lowers its effectiveness in pvp and wvw reasonably allowing it to feel strong and at the same time opens up its build diversity again
Gives the shroud itself some QoL
which is probably good on both parts of the game overall
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> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said :
> > > > Mirage still has no real trade off either so its no surprise people hate it just as much as holo who also has a very minimal tradeoff. Both have great sustain via defensive tools and tons of offensive pressure thats far too unhealthy for the game.
> > > Having to use evade to do damage mean you haven't this evade to evade burst/damage which is the definition of tradeoff.
> > > "tons of offensive pressure" = low setup before strarting hurt while every ambush have obvious animation.
> > > Go into details please what is tons of offensive pressure, what is trade off, what is great sustain.
> > Thats not a trade off thats just a part of the elite spec play style dont get the two things confused.
> > Reaper has to stay in melee range to do realistic damage but thats not its trade off this is part of its play style.
> >
> > Reaper's Its trade off is higher life force cost to use it's shroud mechanic which has less defense for more cleave and upfront damage and the loss of core shroud skills.
> > Mirage trade off is not existent among the shatter skills. Not that the current meta really encourages you to use the shatter skills anyway. You can just leave clones up and alive especially staff clones to do tons of damage. through autos and Infinite Horizon.
> Yep, mirage ins't encouraged to shatter at all because ambush & clone auto do more damage than shatter since a years of nerf.
> So if I base my explanation with your trade off definition :
> Having to use evade = less survival to damage **is** a tradedoff.
> Moreover, you trade shatter/burst gameplay to a more lissed pressure over time. (<= and it's true because a core condi mes with illusion will have higher burst while not having good dps.).
> Clones auto and ambush aren't an asset since they can be kitted/brained as long as you don't melee rollface on a point.
If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.
IF you cant understand my joke here then there is no reason to continue the conversation because we will just go back and forth endlessly looping back to the start of the subject where i define what anet sees as a trade off for an elite spec and then you tell me your own made up version which comes from the play style but not the profession skill mechanic (the shatters) and then start poking out other details in other areas that drag the conversation even farther off topic.
Lets just agree to not agree and we can wait and see what happens we can hope that it works out for everyone in the long run ??
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@"Cal Cohen.3527"
I actually do have one more question i hope you wouldn't mind answering on the subject of boons vs boon conversion. This came to thought last night as i talked with a friend who brought up a good point. His point calling out how thief can take certain boons before others regardless of what boons are covering the more valuable boons.
When it comes to boon stealing with thief i know that a thief will always steal some critical boons in a certain order before any other boon.
With the reduction of boons that might be planned in the future has there ever been any talk about the lesser strips and corruptions that remain after also always targeting specific more valuable boons that often need to be corrupted in a key moment over others or always targeting boons in a specific order based on their value? Ive noticed that some times some boon corrupting/strip skills can be blocked by the aegis boon in some instances while in other instances depending on the skill it may get corrupted or stripped.. Another example you see would be rampage but the warrior has several other boons covering the stability you really need to hit in the key moment to give you a fighting chance and your corrupts fail to hit it due to other cover boons. Resulting the boon corrupter/stripper making the right play and still being punished after the fact this also some times happens with instance of full counter or weavers after they gain stability from stances etc.
Is there a possibility some boon strips or converts can target only offensive boons over defensive ones while others are more geared to target defensive boons before offensive ones?
Or do you think that things overall will kind of even out as things get toned down all together?
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> @"bravan.3876" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"bravan.3876" said:
> > > Neither Guards Mantras nor Mesmer Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain) need a cast time or delay or animation. If you feel Guards Mantras have too high effects so they are brianless spammable for high reward than better tweak their effects.
> > I dont agree with you here. Mantras specifically on both mesmer and guardian are probably some of the first case by case skills that need to be looked at.
> >
> > Fresh air ele for the most part will be fine with just its damage tone down a good bit.
> > There is nothing skillful about a projectiles-less interrupt that can hit from extremely far away on button press command. Even more so that for the fact of it took 7 years just for that skill respect line of sight and require you to be looking / facing the person you want to hit with it.
> > Things like steal, base guardian virtues (even some meditations etc), mesmer shatters, shroud activation, etc are fine being instant cast as those things are profession mechanics that i dont think cause any problems on their own. When it comes to utility skills though not so sure i agree. Even more so if that utility inflicts a instant hard cc with 0 tell on button press. Not many classes in the game have this kind of power to be frank i dont think any of them should.
> >
> > When i really start to think about hard cc skills on utility skills i cant think of any that dont have any tell, minor delay, or projectile on them that hit from range them aside from MoD on mesmer. it is one of the few outliers that needs to be fixed. Even if its just turning the skill into a projectile at least in that case it can still be instant to use but has the delay of the projectile travel time and can be countered by reflects / projectile denial etc. You will be able to see it coming at you and not just have to do a 50/50 guess on when some's finger is going to press the button.
>
> You are right lock down hard cc should never be instant! But Daze is not a lock down, you still can dodge, it is completely fine to be instant and Steal as something that can daze too from max range is also fine. The daze on Mantra always needed line of sight you never were daze when the skill was obstructed, also Mantra of Pain never dmg on you when you were out of los. The only thing actually got changes was that things being behind the Mesmer now count as out of sight. With other words they only nerfed the effect to hit behind, for the line of sight thing it even was a buff because now the charge doesn't activate when it is out of sight. Before patch the charge was just wasted when used on an obstructed target without hit the target at all. It is so funny that you guys are so fine with that on paper "nerf" even though half of it was a quality of life buff for the Mesmer xD Shows insane class knowledge... maybe Mesmer mains can find some other pseudo nerfs to calm down the casual masses and prevent Mesmers from getting nerfed to death even on their most skillful playstyle. I had a good laugh at least here. Mesmer is also an outlines as the only class with clones, lets get rid of that too right? Simple as it is Mesmer is supposed to be the onyly class until now (except for interrupt Ele, which even has passive proc daze on range btw) has clones and an playstyle based on interrupting not lock downing (that is why CI got reworked but Mantra not, it is a big difference).
>
> Show me your godlike reaction time and reactive interrupt gameplay on a Powermes with a skill having a cast time themself pls (like when you see you want to interrupt an animation wait 0,5 secs before you react and see how often you can interrupt something on purpose with that) and be in facetank range of your target all time when you want to interrupt pls with a glass spec because that is what you ask for right? I bet both hands and my legs you can't win a single fight vs any class with it on same skill lvl. Even less under the circumstances you want to nerf the interrupt playstyle to, what is pretty much the hardest to play and the easiest to counter already. Mantra of Distraction has at least 10 counters i listed several times in this forum, it is utterly useless when random spammed and not hit keyskills as heal on a good moment or big dmg skills or big cc skills in fights or in conquest. Every other utility a Mesmer could take would be more useful than this and easier to use with less counterplay. If you have problems to deal with a Powermes using Mantra of Distraction (with or without Powerblock) on any class (except for Necro maybe but even there you have builds can deal with that at least in duels) than it is a l2p issue 10000%.
>
> I you just cut Fresh Air dmg it just will be completely useless and used even less than already. Better get rid of the broken high instant range dmg mechanic and give it something impactful but counterable instead.
It wont be useless if everyone else also gets adjusted properly with it. Thats why the goal is to cut everything down not just 1 thing or another thing overall
Though on the effect of a comparing mantra of distraction to thief steal.
**Thief steal** requires them to trait for the daze and using it puts them into melee range which means there is some risk associated with using it.
vs
**Power lock** which is a longer daze with no tell, without a trait investment or requirement, has 2 uses, and has no negative to the caster on use as you are allowed to stay at range when using it. About the only negative to the skill is that you have to first charge it which 99% of the time is done out of combat initially making this draw back void to any initial combat situation.
Sorry i simply dont agree. The skill needs more room counter-play which is something they surely want to do going forward.
Even a thief's steal has quite a bit of extra room for counter-play forcing the user into melee range and depending on your profession can be countered by things like auras, area denial skills which will still enforce a cc onto the thief, traps, symbols on the floor, necro marks, etc.
MoD has no such risk.
You also are comparing a utility skill to a profession mechanic (improper comparison by skill category)
I looked at utility skills that inflicted hard cc vs MoD not a profession mechanic. In any case its an outlier of a utility skill that needs "some change" even if its still instant it at least needs to be a projectile in which reflects/projectile denial can counter it its only counter should not be stability (which can easily be ripped by the unjust speed of arcane thievery among the chaos) or the power to basically guess on a 50/50 button press.
The closest utility skills that inflicts a hard cc instantly with no tell at some range would be "Fear me" and rangers "protect me" which both have modest cooldowns and and pretty decent requirements that give room for counter-play or limit them to being reasonable.
Even "Protect me" requires you hit the ranger to trigger meaning more likely than not something else or someone else can trigger the effect more likely than your target unless its a 1v1.
and "Fear me" loses effectiveness with range increase from the caster to the target you want to hit with the fear.
-
> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said :
> > Mirage still has no real trade off either so its no surprise people hate it just as much as holo who also has a very minimal tradeoff. Both have great sustain via defensive tools and tons of offensive pressure thats far too unhealthy for the game.
> Having to use evade to do damage mean you haven't this evade to evade burst/damage which is the definition of tradeoff.
> "tons of offensive pressure" = low setup before strarting hurt while every ambush have obvious animation.
> Go into details please what is tons of offensive pressure, what is trade off, what is great sustain.
>
Thats not a trade off thats just a part of the elite spec play style dont get the two things confused.
Reaper has to stay in melee range to do realistic damage but thats not its trade off this is part of its play style.
Reaper's Its trade off is higher life force cost to use it's shroud mechanic which has less defense for more cleave and upfront damage and the loss of core shroud skills.
Mirage trade off is not existent among the shatter skills. Not that the current meta really encourages you to use the shatter skills anyway. You can just leave clones up and alive especially staff clones to do tons of damage. through autos and Infinite Horizon.
> > The fact that mirage is a hot topic means its a problem and its one of the bigger problems that needs to be looked at sooner rather than later.
> No, it's a fact that mesmer is a problem since release because of illusions / targeting problem for the majority of the player base since the release should it be viable or not.
Thats not what we are here to talk about.
> This explain the "hot issue" and make people like me bored (to not say angry) of gameplay destruction and unviability because of this same player base who will always has issue as long as mesmer pop a clone. Particulary when argumentation is 100% feeling and extrapolation with no data behind....
Well you have alot of people 100% "Feeling" something needs to be done and sooner rather than later this is factual data.
In truth it does not matter. The only data or facts we need is based on what they dev said. **"If its good right now it's considered to be stronger than we want it to be"** This factually includes mirage considering its the main combat choice of the mesmer profession in pvp at the moment. You dont need data to know this. This is the reality of the situation.
-
> @"bravan.3876" said:
> Neither Guards Mantras nor Mesmer Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain) need a cast time or delay or animation. If you feel Guards Mantras have too high effects so they are brianless spammable for high reward than better tweak their effects.
I dont agree with you here. Mantras specifically on both mesmer and guardian are probably some of the first case by case skills that need to be looked at.
Fresh air ele for the most part will be fine with just its damage tone down a good bit.
There is nothing skillful about a projectiles-less interrupt that can hit from extremely far away on button press command. Even more so that for the fact of it took 7 years just for that skill respect line of sight and require you to be looking / facing the person you want to hit with it.
Things like steal, base guardian virtues (even some meditations etc), mesmer shatters, shroud activation, etc are fine being instant cast as those things are profession mechanics that i dont think cause any problems on their own. When it comes to utility skills though not so sure i agree. Even more so if that utility inflicts a instant hard cc with 0 tell on button press. Not many classes in the game have this kind of power to be frank i dont think any of them should.
When i really start to think about hard cc skills on utility skills i cant think of any that dont have any tell, minor delay, or projectile on them that hit from range them aside from MoD on mesmer. it is one of the few outliers that needs to be fixed. Even if its just turning the skill into a projectile at least in that case it can still be instant to use but has the delay of the projectile travel time and can be countered by reflects / projectile denial etc. You will be able to see it coming at you and not just have to do a 50/50 guess on when some's finger is going to press the button.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"sinject.4607" said:
> > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > > > @"sinject.4607" said:
> > > > > > As a deadeye player this is my perspective:
> > > > > > **Condi mirage is the most overpowered build in the game by far.** The core design of multi-casting in mesmer (weapon/utils/shatters/clones) allows for a certain persistent offensive pressure that just works too well with condition damage; this is the same reason people complain about condition thief despite this only being true to a lesser extent with daredevil. This offensive pressure combined with the amount of defensive uptime condition mirage can manage essentially leaves it with no vulnerability windows and no major weaknesses.
> > > > > > * You can't kite them well if at all because of their mobility in addition to bodyblocking from clones and reflects.
> > > > > > * You can't offensively pressure them via melee because most of their damage mitigation doesn't occupy their casting queue, leaving them free to weapon attack and use utilities to punish you.
> > > > > > * You can't reliably CC them because of access to stability/stunbreaks/mirage cloak evade and because **MOST OF THEIR INVULN ANIMATIONS DONT PROPERLY RENDER. ESPECIALLY OUT OF STEALTH.** This seems to be partly caused when they clone spam as the rendering engine just seemingly gives up with the sudden visual clutter.
> > > > > > * You can't really avoid their damage because the core design of condition damage/application when combined with the multi-cast pressure of mirage means that evading even their condi burst you will probably lose half your health from passive clone application followed by autoattacks and AoE. Another issue being the efficacy of AI casters- clones are way too fast and way too persistently perfect in their attacks and I think if anything this speaks to overtly easy design of condition damage as I've never had issue with power mesmer/chrono/mirage clones.
> > > > > Sadly this is not what streams show.
> > > > > Isn't just that your build is hardcountered ? I can see some melee deadeye builds who can manage well against mirage.
> > > > > I mean I don't post an op post everytime a thief kill me on power mesmer/mirage while it hardcounter it since release.
> > > > > About the "CC imune" : just count the 2 evade then CC burst if I can win on a powermirage versus condimirage it's because condimirage have a really slow setup before damage start to hurt and very visible animations on ambush.
> > > > > It's good in a game to have strength and weakness over differents situations.
> > > >
> > > > Nope. The only posts here defending mirage are from mesmer players such as yourself, while all three pages have a variety of players mentioning condition mirage as broken and even the Devs themselves have echoed some of my thoughts on the build here in this thread.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > So let me get this strait, if players argue and discuss the issues with mirage, they are wrong in defending the class and right in wanting it toned down.
> > >
> > > Yet if the same players start arguing about thief, everyone arguing that thief might have some issues and need some toning down is wrong? You literally mentioned that every one else is wrong about thief, while writing about how condi thief is not overpowered. How are you not biased yourself? :o
> > >
> > > I mean I get being in favor of balance changes for another class, but at least have the common decency to not write about your own class while complaining about other players bias. That's hypocritical. I'm quite sure the general consent is that condi thief is overperforming, just like the general consent is that condi mirage is overpowerforming. If we apply a neutral and unbiased standard accross both classes from a majority of comments in this thread, they both need adjusting downward.
> > >
> > > As far as the devs mentioning things, they also mention that they want condi thief adjusted (as did many players). Does that make your opinion and argument for the thief class void? Please no double standards.
> >
> > You missed his entire point really. Its not a matter of defending it or anyone defending a class.
> >
>
> I fully understand that. I guess you missed his entire second part of his first post (before this one) in which he was defending thief and condi thief.
>
> Which is the exact thing he is complaining about when it comes to mirage players: subjective favorism and arguments.
>
> I have no problem with having classes adjusted, I simply dislike players telling others they are biased, while they themselves go on explaining how their class is free from issues. It comes accross as very double standard.
i was actually talking in reference to the dev sorry the statement was kind of for both of you ;)
I may or may not be lacking coffee this morning but i get what you mean.
-
Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fix
I dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.
*gets downed*
*uses vapor form to move to allies on safe spot*
*Gets transfusion teleported to scourge's shade instead of the scourge himself in not safe spot*
*dies*
Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"sinject.4607" said:
> > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > @"sinject.4607" said:
> > > > As a deadeye player this is my perspective:
> > > > **Condi mirage is the most overpowered build in the game by far.** The core design of multi-casting in mesmer (weapon/utils/shatters/clones) allows for a certain persistent offensive pressure that just works too well with condition damage; this is the same reason people complain about condition thief despite this only being true to a lesser extent with daredevil. This offensive pressure combined with the amount of defensive uptime condition mirage can manage essentially leaves it with no vulnerability windows and no major weaknesses.
> > > > * You can't kite them well if at all because of their mobility in addition to bodyblocking from clones and reflects.
> > > > * You can't offensively pressure them via melee because most of their damage mitigation doesn't occupy their casting queue, leaving them free to weapon attack and use utilities to punish you.
> > > > * You can't reliably CC them because of access to stability/stunbreaks/mirage cloak evade and because **MOST OF THEIR INVULN ANIMATIONS DONT PROPERLY RENDER. ESPECIALLY OUT OF STEALTH.** This seems to be partly caused when they clone spam as the rendering engine just seemingly gives up with the sudden visual clutter.
> > > > * You can't really avoid their damage because the core design of condition damage/application when combined with the multi-cast pressure of mirage means that evading even their condi burst you will probably lose half your health from passive clone application followed by autoattacks and AoE. Another issue being the efficacy of AI casters- clones are way too fast and way too persistently perfect in their attacks and I think if anything this speaks to overtly easy design of condition damage as I've never had issue with power mesmer/chrono/mirage clones.
> > > Sadly this is not what streams show.
> > > Isn't just that your build is hardcountered ? I can see some melee deadeye builds who can manage well against mirage.
> > > I mean I don't post an op post everytime a thief kill me on power mesmer/mirage while it hardcounter it since release.
> > > About the "CC imune" : just count the 2 evade then CC burst if I can win on a powermirage versus condimirage it's because condimirage have a really slow setup before damage start to hurt and very visible animations on ambush.
> > > It's good in a game to have strength and weakness over differents situations.
> >
> > Nope. The only posts here defending mirage are from mesmer players such as yourself, while all three pages have a variety of players mentioning condition mirage as broken and even the Devs themselves have echoed some of my thoughts on the build here in this thread.
> >
> >
>
> So let me get this strait, if players argue and discuss the issues with mirage, they are wrong in defending the class and right in wanting it toned down.
>
> Yet if the same players start arguing about thief, everyone arguing that thief might have some issues and need some toning down is wrong? You literally mentioned that every one else is wrong about thief, while writing about how condi thief is not overpowered. How are you not biased yourself? :o
>
> I mean I get being in favor of balance changes for another class, but at least have the common decency to not write about your own class while complaining about other players bias. That's hypocritical. I'm quite sure the general consent is that condi thief is overperforming, just like the general consent is that condi mirage is overpowerforming. If we apply a neutral and unbiased standard accross both classes from a majority of comments in this thread, they both need adjusting downward.
>
> As far as the devs mentioning things, they also mention that they want condi thief adjusted (as did many players). Does that make your opinion and argument for the thief class void? Please no double standards.
You missed his entire point really. Its not a matter of defending it or anyone defending a class.
Basically in a nutshell he said if a class or elite spec, trait, skill, feature of the class is considered good right now then its stronger than they want it to be so yes expect mirage/mesmer nerfs, expect theif nerfs, expect soul beast/ranger nerfs, expect reaper nerfs, expect weaver/ele nerfs, expect firebrand/guardian nerfs, expect holo nerfs, Rev? Expect nerfs. As he put the general direction is down for just about everyone if you are arguing for something that someone thinks is too strong expect it to get culled down to a more respectable level. Even I dont want to lose my quickness on reaper (feels clunky slow without it) but i know if these patches get done right there is no way thats going to remain on the RO trait. (i hope they just speed up the base reaper attacks but not to quickness levels)
Mirage still has no real trade off either so its no surprise people hate it just as much as holo who also has a very minimal tradeoff. Both have great sustain via defensive tools and tons of offensive pressure thats far too unhealthy for the game.
This is not about who should be nerfed its about how much certain aspects that exist in the game today should be nerfed considering condi application is a big target on their list its safe to say mirage will see quite a few changes especially to the commonly used weapons, scepter/ staff. We will also see 1 shot builds likely become lesser bursting builds with much more risk ideally rev, holo, guardian etc are probably going to lose alot of up front burst damage so they wont be 1 shotting people even more so if someone invest in toughness which is currently almost invalid in the game due to how much dps can come out of a single person let alone a team of 5.
The fact that mirage is a hot topic means its a problem and its one of the bigger problems that needs to be looked at sooner rather than later. Dont worry though Holo is in the same boat with you along with several other things like condi thief and warriors who use rampage etc.
Overall im going to be glad to see everyone get dropped down. Pretty much think of what ever spec is not used very much due to how under powered it is... core necro, core rev, core engi, etc. Now think about everything being brought back down to that standard possibly pre HoT. That would be good for the game right now a major rework of everything has been long tuned. Im personally sick and tired of builds doing more than the player and the player being ego boosted because they know they are running a crazy build with limited counters. Lets reset, refresh, and restart how metas are built for pvp. This is a chance to actually make the game blanced and fun again instead of going "ughh..." when you see a certain thing or team comp. Its also a good chance to make professions, and other options that are not effective or struggling to be effective viable again.
-
> @"Kalan.9705" said:
> I really think this is the most important general point - fundamentally different modes, have different combat considerations and require separate autonomous balance teams. PvP is not the same as WvW - anyone who thinks 1 team should be doing both competitive modes has not understood the game well enough to be making balance decisions.
>
> The better balance initiative is doomed to fail unless Anet admits WvW and PvP combat (also PvE as Anet have finally admitted after like 7 years in) are fundamentally different, and therefore Anet MUST have separate balance teams (who can consult of course, but need to utilise autonomy and split states).
>
> Using 1 team to balance both PvP and WvW together only gives 3 bad outcomes:
> 1. deference to PvP balance makes WvW combat bad.
> 2. deference to WvW balance makes PvP combat bad.
> 3. trying to do half n half makes both WvW and PvP combat bad.
To be honest i say keep pvp and wvw together till they do the culling over everyone after all the nerfs are in place then decide if wvw and pvp need to also be split apart. It makes the most since as they can bring both game modes down (which needs to happen no matter how you spin it) at the same time before adjusting them separately
-
> @"Emapudapus.1307" said:
> Since i am playing mostly **necromancer** PvP (mostly legend in HoT times), these things i think are bloated atm, not fun to play against or use, but necessary because of other powercreep. Also i think there also needs to be splits of traits between elite specialisations since they preform so differently and for one specialisation it can be useless and for other overpowered.:
Sorry but im gonna reply to this one cause i see a few things that are concerning and fairly questionable in your suggestions.
>
> -GS 4 reaper: blind, cripple, boon corrupt, dmg, dark field, longer lasting; too much of everything.
Really this just needs to be sped up keep the blind and cripple. Depending on how much boons get culled down depends on if it should keep its corrupt or not
> -Spectral walk: too bloated atm, duration too long or removal of condi removal.
This is probably fine as is you have to remember necromancer lost its spectral mastery trait and the spectral skills (except spectral armor for some odd reason) were compensated as a result.
> -reaper onslaught: too bloated, perma quickness with ferocity too much, previous trait was better. Promotes unhealty oneshot builds.
Well there is no such thing as a 1 shot build on necro that simply does not happen right now unless you stand there and let it happen. There is no skill or combo of skills that nukes you from 100-0 in 1.5 seconds in necros kit. Reaper does not do damage that you dont see coming unlike alot of the other professions, ref, mirage, soul beast, etc, Most classes can often survive a full soulsprial even let alone if they dodge its obvious animation.
I agree the quickness should be removed from this trait but the ferocity is fine unless we see all other classes also lose ferocity or other similar stat traits. I would suggest making reaper shroud just faster at its base (so its not clunky but also not quickness level fast roughly 30% faster down from 50% that quickness gives) you could easily do this by reducing all the cast times in the reaper kit by 33% of their current base its the same thing as effectively making the skills faster.
> -Master of corruption: the effect is too strong. For it to be balanced the original cooldowns have to be too long, extra conditions arent fun for anyone (aka nerf to heal from 24 to 30 sec and 2 conditions on heal use)
This makes no sense really. Depending on how long you have been playing you would know that Consume conditions for example use to orginally be 24 seconds and got Nerfed up to 30 seconds with the addition of self vuln application.
> -fear of death: bloated trait. It should give you max 50% fear duration which dont make condi duration less valuable.
First of all make fear a hard cc then we can talk about cutting its duration. Currently has way too many counters and this makes core un-viable in the pvp setting as fear application is one of its main lines of defense.
> -deathly chill: split between reaper-core-scourage.
This leads me to think you dont know what you are talking about, or trolling possibly? Because deathly chill is a reaper only trait. There can be no core/reaper/scourge split. Not like this trait is commonly used anyways.
> -death perception: should be reverted back to 50% crit (too many dmg modifiers give rise to oneshot builds).
Necormancer cannot currently perform a 1 shot build unless you stand there and dont do anything at all. It cant sneak up to you and 1 tap you to death. The old version was far too much crit chance at best reduce the ferocity gain only if other professions also lose ferocity/other stats on their stat bonus traits
> -corrupt boon: its not overpowered but as its design atm with many condi cleanses and many boons, its too spamy and low impact (low impact not by itself but from enemies and their cleanses or bloated use of boons)
Im not sure its spamy but the only reason necromancer has so many is because so many other professions have a ton of boons that also need to be removed (way more than the necromancer has) and can handle.
> And things that got undeserved, unfun changes or made them useless/pointless:
>
> -Warhorn 5: rework made it prety useless, pointless and unfun, lower range, shorter duration, no cripple, not working with blood traitline for siphons, killing all synergy. Should be rerolled back.
I feel like it does not need to totally be re rollled back. How ever the duration that it pulsed over time before should be rolled back. There are some beneifits to having a mobile aoe that does not strike (full counter procs, retaliation procs, shocking aura procs, frost aura procs, etc)
> -Parasitic contagion: could be buffed little and working while in shroud or split between scourage and others.
I feel like this is one of the traits that should not change till we see how all the other nerfs work out.
> -consume condition: shouldnt apply condition on you
But you want it when traited to apply 2 conditions and have a higher base cd as stated above???
> -Plaguelands: revert to old spell except for scourage, atm its unfun and useless and in vanilla GW2 it was quite interesting spell to use.
No point to doing this now imo the old skill did make you tanky but was not that exciting for me personally
> -Lichform: rework? I dont know whats its purpuse
It may not need a total rework once we see the other nerfs come through but i still think it needs some major QoL if this gets nerfed as it is right now its a dead skill in general. The cd is already too high and the skills are lackluster and clunky.
> -Blood bond: it feels little weak atm, before bugfix when it also healed it was good, noone was complaining its too strong.
Lol no that was broken you just never saw a good player use it with Signet of suffering. Trust me this trait is fine as it is.
> -cold shoulder: (for me personaly) less dmg recieved from chilled enemies was better for me than dmg done to chilled enemies, too many +% dmg modifiers makes dmg bloated.
If only chill application was viable in pvp (its currently already not a thing and surely wont be with more reductions coming) At best this trait can be one that meets in the middle with 5% offence 5% damage reduction
> -soul eater: unthematic traitline undergone many iteration now it lost its purpose and its too restrictive (like range or not working in shroud) unfun to use.
I would say remove the range limit and healing factor from it all together and it might be fine.
> -Axe 2: too clunky if ppl use evade or dodge or something on it. Needs quality of life improvements.
Lol this is fine as perhaps lower its damage slightly and speed up so that it strikes slightly faster (but can be evaded in a single dodge)
> -soul spiral: poison duration could be increased back to before nerf, would help with bruiser role little and if someone wants to go back to condi reaper.
No reason to do this as reaper as been slowly going toward the power role. The poison is only there to help combat healing for a short period.
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> @"Ferelwing.8463" said:
> Honestly, I think it starts with boon share first and how many boons/stacks of boons can be pumped out and then it moves to boon corruption. I can understand in the PVE zones the need for boon and boon corruptions to be used on mobs but in WvW, I think the problem is widespread. Going down to the basics on how many boons should be shared and how much corruption to give would be an excellent start. Basically, there's too much power creep and while that is fine in PVE because the base-line mobs are kinda over-tuned in some places, it's not fine when playing PvP or WvW.
Pretty much this to be honest however in relation to pve zones meets boon corrupts.
if he were to ask this question about pve i would say that boon corruption should be extremely minimal at most
Most pve mobs dont generate boons and the majority of the ones that do are usually within fractals under certain instabilities only and in some raid instances.
ideally in both situations wvw and pvp boon share, generation, and application need to come way way down. Then adjust boon corrupts like you said to be roughly minimal so that its still a key feature of necromancer but not a blockade tool where 1 profession is built around managing the other 8. This is bad design for the health of the game and general and the necromancer class as it cannot be built or adjusted higher potential in areas necromancer players have been asking for because "well you have boon corruption in super generous amounts" but it only has that because its being forced to pretty much solo manage the other 8 professions who splatter boons allover themselves. The fact that it had a whole elite designed around this where every single one of its utilities even its heal corrupts boons says something is wrong.
I would 100% support the reduction of boon corrupts only if first boons in general return to pretty much what they were pre HoT where classes that could self generate high might count were limited in other boons much like the necromancer still is while other classes who can generate a wide range of boons generally cant generate much might at all or are suck at a much lower self might cap.
The moment you look at pve the boon corrupts become nearly pointless and useless as a mechanic wasting necromancer potential. I hope they open a pve thread so I can discuss the idea of most boon corrupts replaced or getting additional effects against boon-less foes in pve only.
-
If gw3 was ever a confirmed thing i think one of the few things that would tempt me to move from gw2 to gw3 with ease would be, being able to carry over my characters assuming the races ((charr)) and classes were still playable.
In any other case the game would just need to reach a state where it was not playable. The most common way this happens is usually a decline in population.
The general population in gw2 would need to drop to levels that make the game struggle to work as much content based around the game hinges on the idea that there will be a plethora of additional players playing with you pvp, pve, wvw etc.
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> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > Hopefully the team can aim ensure each class has no less than 2-4 counter options, For example a massive outlier is the fact that under no such reason should mirages main and mostly only counter mostly be thieves.
> >
> > That said my main questions/statements are
> >
> > * One of the biggest things i hope will be considered is **toning down boon generation and application** in pvp so that necromancer is not acting as mostly the main and only counter against them, the class suffers too much design wise having a lot of its skills and tools cut short in terms of damage, effectiveness, or other mechanics for the simple sake of having to boon manage the other 8 professions in the game. It honestly feels like over the years its unique mechanic to corrupt boons has gone from a key feature to a gate keeping tool. How ever to "balance" this out its other areas suffer greatly for example (how people are now noticing how much more crazy fire brand is which is partly due to the fact that it was already strong and now their are less scourges and necros around to help manage its boons)
>
> Boon uptime is definitely something on our radar, and likewise how many corrupts are needed to interact with that amount of boons. In general the thought is that everything needs to come down, including damage, sustain, boons, corrupts, cc, stability, among other things. There's a lot more to it than just blanket nerfing everything by X% but the general direction is definitely downward.
I praise this.
> > In terms of boon balance i see that you wrote who a single spec self stacking 25 might would be looked at but how would this fair for classes like say warrior or soulbeats which can quickly stack 25 might on its own as well as a generous number of other boons vs necormancer which can also self stack 25 might but is pretty limited on the boon department to just hand full like might, swiftness, (perhaps some protection)
>
> Professions are still going to have their strengths and weakness in terms of what boons they can generate, but the overall effectiveness is going to be lower.
Im going to have some faith that the numbers will align properly with this that some things will inevitably have to be brought down more than others. As if everything just comes down by the same level most things technically (in my head) wont change aside from the fact that combat between a set of players or teams might take slightly more time. I think that will be on the team to gauge based on what the majority of people say here though.
>
> > * Will the team reconsider how effective instant cast skills like **mantras** should be or entertain the idea of adding a delay to project some kind of warning or tell before they fire off along side other skills.
>
> Instant skills are one of the things that we've started discussing internally since cast time isn't something that can be split. One of our main goals for competitive is making sure that there is adequate counterplay. It's going to vary on a case-by-case basis, but cast time increases and adding delays are part of those discussions. Not as splits, but as changes that may need to happen. There's then opportunity for PvE-only splits to compensate skills for these changes.
> > * Will you plan to look at **toning down overly rewarding safe rapid condition application?** For example conditions that are applied constantly from say mirage (and its staff auto and ambush) or super safe application practices like the more recent dare devil thief which can apply its main damaging condition by simply using skills that evade.
>
> How conditions are applied is a big thing that we're looking into.
Sounds good to me personally
> > * Are you going to consider can looking at spicing up skills, traits, utilities that are heavily under used not just in this meta but in the past several metas without smashing the ones that are already in a good spot and used to make the same outdated traits/skills etc appear as a better option. In short keep the good as is (for the most part) just spice up the non used stuff.
>
> For the future big patch, we are primarily looking at nerfs. The idea is that things that are in a good spot in the current meta are overtuned for what we want the game to be. We still want skills and traits to feel strong, but their current strength is too high. Initially we want to wait and see with a lot of things that aren't considered viable right now. As everything else shifts downward other things may become relevant without any changes. There will certainly be things that are too weak and we will revisit them in the future.
This actually makes sense if everything is ideally going to be brought down. So I'm content with the idea that some old or underused skills might not change just yet if thats the case.
Thanks for answering ?
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> @"AngelsShadow.7360" said:
> **Targeted issues:**
>
> BUILDS REFERENCED HERE: https://www.godsofpvp.net/
>
> **Engineer:**
> *Quickness uptime (Elixir U and Kinetic Battery)
> *Stability from Elixir U (eliminates need to hit corona burst - taking away skill)
> *Overcharged Shot - little-to-no tell, hard to predict
> *Function Gyro is far too ineffective compared to other revive utilities (Blood Well, traited Geyser, etc.)
>
> _Lots of players here are talking about damage output, this is best adjusted by limiting quickness uptime (therefore allowing the actual dodging of the skills) rather than adjusting the skills themselves._
Ideally there is just not enough risk with the spec at least with holo.
As you said fuction gyro is too ineffective i agree with
>
> **Elementalist:**
> *Evade uptime is too high
> *Evade animations are inconsistent with actual evade frames (beginning and end)
> *Lots of passive damage output - quite unfun to deal with
I would argue the evade up time is fine just the condition dps is instantly melting. Considering its almost on par with its pve split and its pve split when built to condi can out ramp power dps in the first 5 seconds with burning alone is saying something. Ideally it needs to be checked so that its not applying instant melting levels of conditions. The evades should stay no reason to take those.
> **Mesmer:**
> *Too many cover conditions over the primary damage source (torment)
> *Too high evade uptime
> *Evade whilst CCed is silly
> *Clone generation is ridiculous - fights are incredibly cluttered
I pretty much agree on all of this and staff autos / ambush do way too much.
>
> **Guardian:**
> *No specific issues, firebrand has reduced effectiveness due to Scourge nerf
This is not true imo its effectiveness has increased due to the fact that its easier to upkeep boons at least when looking at its offensive variation which is becoming more popular. There is also less risk for firebrands in general no longer having nearly as many aoes that will pop up under them attempting to support or fight.
>
> **Necromancer:**
> *Corrupts in general are far too common and allow for far too many cover conditions (not enough cleanses in the game!) - swap some corrupts for boon rips.
I agree with this but simply swapping them for rips wont solve anything the issue is alos that boon generation and application is too high across the board and necor should not be acting as the main counter to this being 1 profession having to manage 8 others boons.
> *Blood well is far too effective
To be honest this has already been nerfed a few times its fine as is.
> *Honestly, too many teleports on necromancer in general at this point
Seriously? What teleports? Wurm? Spectral walk with a fix'ed distance? You know this is a light armored profession with limited boons, no blocks, and extra evades right?
>
> **Ranger:**
> *Longbow is still silly burst, and far too effective at lower tiers of play
You forgot to talk about how strong some pets become with beast mastery, several pets also need to rebalanced. Far too much use of smoke scale and not enough of every other pet. Pets need more obvious tells on when they are going to use AI cc attacks such as knockdowns.
>
> **Revenant:**
> *Too high sustained damage output
> *Too high Quickness uptime
I feel like the quickness bit is a bit of stretch but you are correct on the damage department its burst is insane atm.
>
> **Thief:**
> *Deadeye - too much stealth uptime from stealth on dodge trait - **very** unfun gameplay - impossible for lower tier players to track
I agree
> *Daggerstorm should not be an evade
This is fine as is imo
>
> **Warrior:**
> *Too much might uptime
> *Too much sustain from might makes right - health and endurance regen
I agree with this but might makes right is not the problem its other sources of might one of the main offenders being magebane and its rapid might application
> *Bull's Charge evade forces dodge, when there are at least 6 other high damage skills on warrior that require a dodge too
This is honestly fine Bulls has a obvious tell
> *Rampage - too much damage and CC
1000% agree its top tier elite in most cases its a free kill when pressed.
> *Warrior's Cunning - 50% damage increase vs barriered foes is too high especially vs classes with perma barrier like scrapper and weaver
^ The trait overall is too strong on both fronts not just the barrier damage increase.
Pretty much anything i didnt call out in your list means I already agree with it to some extent but i feel you are missing some points in some places or just completely incorrect.
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Hopefully the team can aim ensure each class has no less than 2-4 counter options, For example a massive outlier is the fact that under no such reason should mirages main and mostly only counter mostly be thieves.
That said my main questions/statements are
* One of the biggest things i hope will be considered is **toning down boon generation and application** in pvp so that necromancer is not acting as mostly the main and only counter against them, the class suffers too much design wise having a lot of its skills and tools cut short in terms of damage, effectiveness, or other mechanics for the simple sake of having to boon manage the other 8 professions in the game. It honestly feels like over the years its unique mechanic to corrupt boons has gone from a key feature to a gate keeping tool. How ever to "balance" this out its other areas suffer greatly for example (how people are now noticing how much more crazy fire brand is which is partly due to the fact that it was already strong and now their are less scourges and necros around to help manage its boons)
In terms of boon balance i see that you wrote who a single spec self stacking 25 might would be looked at but how would this fair for classes like say warrior or soulbeats which can quickly stack 25 might on its own as well as a generous number of other boons vs necormancer which can also self stack 25 might but is pretty limited on the boon department to just hand full like might, swiftness, (perhaps some protection)
* Will the team reconsider how effective instant cast skills like **mantras** should be or entertain the idea of adding a delay to project some kind of warning or tell before they fire off along side other skills.
* Is the team going to consider **toning down burst quick or be killed meta** to a reasonable level. Ever since HoT which was known as a very tanky/busier meta initially the game has headed in a direction that constantly pushes a kill quick to survive playstyle which works for some professions or elite specs but not for others. It also some what negates the idea of building defensively on some professions as building offensive tends to be the best defensive measure.?
* Will you plan to look at **toning down overly rewarding safe rapid condition application?** For example conditions that are applied constantly from say mirage (and its staff auto and ambush) or super safe application practices like the more recent dare devil thief which can apply its main damaging condition by simply using skills that evade.
* Are you going to consider can looking at spicing up skills, traits, utilities that are heavily under used not just in this meta but in the past several metas without smashing the ones that are already in a good spot and used to make the same outdated traits/skills etc appear as a better option. In short keep the good as is (for the most part) just spice up the non used stuff.
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> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration
> >
> > I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
> > ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
> > IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.
>
> Whats the matter? You pick it anyway. Doesnt matter if it is in on the left or the right side of the traitline? Like really? Thats nonsence. Move it to the grandmaster then, if it makes you feel better.
Actually it does matter because it matters what else it can and cannot stack / combo with.
Also going from left to right the strength and effectiveness of a trait increases in almost all cases regardless in terms of if its
* stats provided
* boons given
* damage reduced
* healing gained
* mechanic strength and synergy
It actually does matter that you dont take a grand master trait and pop it in a adept slot... thats how something becomes op. Its not just about the trait itself its about what else it can / cannot combo with within that line and other lines.
> No offence but this is stupid to me. Every warrior adapt trait are stronger then our grandmasters.
Hmm i dont agree warriors do actually have quite a few crappy adepts too that are almost never picked for the exact reason.
The fact that warriors are also not by default magical themed classes that generally do not blink, teleport, stealth, etc also requires them to have a slightly different take on traits much like engineer traits are very odd as well.
If you dont think its true ill give you two examples from strength line which is one of warriors strongest trait lines.
**Brave Stride**
has 1 effect that only triggers on your first out going strike on entering combat and has 0 effect for the rest of combat duration regardless of how long that combat situation might last. If combat last 20 seconds or 2 minutes it will never trigger again effectively they lose a whole trait after this triggers for the rest of that combat situation. People RARELY and i mean RARELY ever run this. You can tell if a warrior is running it because they have an icon for it on their bar letting them know it will trigger.
**Restorative Strength**
Grants you 5 might for 6s only after using a healing skill and thats it. If your healing skill is something like healing signet you cant or will rarely even activate this trait. The might gain is 5 stacks which is not bad but its only 6 seconds. not exactly anything crazy
Simply put they are not that strong and all of them are adepts that are not anything near the level of grandmasters and this is looking at one of their strongest lines other lines have even lesser traits which are also not used and not matched in terms of equal power or effectiveness with the "most common" choices you see warriors use.
-
I think overall the best solution for foot in the grave is just adding more utility to it. Anet is not going to give pulsing stab so why not go another route.
**Foot in the grave**
Break stun on shroud entry (still standard)
Gain 1 stack of stab on entry 3s
**New Additions**
When Breaking a stun by entering shroud gain additional boons while inflicting hindering conditions on nearby foes for a short duration.
* Additional boons: 1 more stack of Stab, Retaliation, Vigor, Resistance (5s of each)
* Slows (3s) and Blinds (5s) foes
I think personally the above could provide enough additional utility to the trait to make it proper for a defensive/ utility based shroud boost trait making it a more tempting trait to take when more defense or utility is needed. I think that if it was more like the suggestion above it would be a good bit closer to being on par with DP and and possibly a better option than Dhuumfire on anything thats not scourge.
Right now i think the additional boons and blind/slow would be a good start. It brings a few rare boons in light usage to the necromancer as well as just a slight bit of sustain through conditional pressure using more effective conditions thats not just more weakness splatter. I didnt want to suggest some boons necro already has too much off like might, swiftness, Considering the traits defensive nature i also didn't want to suggest offensive boons like fury or quickness. I also felt like a boon such as aegis would be a bit off fitting for the overall look of the trait line (as a whole its not THAT defensive) and should ideally be aimed more twoard the utility side in terms of effectiveness.
Like many other necromancer tools its biggest reward only comes after the necromancer is already getting hit or is already cc'ed in some way rather than something thats gained before hand. Thus ideally it wont be something that always triggers ever 10 seconds on shroud use with the idea of shroud flashing. It rewards quick reaction time and quicker cleaver thinking (baiting someone into using a cc on you letting that spell breaker pull you with his magebane for example) vs just Press f1 for reward at any given time.
-
> @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > @"KrHome.1920" said:
> > Nerfing death perception would nerf power reaper and put it back to 28k dps.
> >
> > That 300 ferocity would have to be placed somewhere else.
> >
> > The main reason for the rework away from pure precision to a mix of precision and damage was to bring power reaper to 30k dps with a series of additional damage multipliers: awaken the pain (+250 power), soul barbs (+10%), death perception (+300 ferocity), soul eater (+10%), cold shoulder (+15%) and...
> >
> > ...to make shoud rewarding (increase the dps when in shroud). Shroud was a dps loss before which was absurd.
>
> That's why I say to put the ferocity on a trait that would replace _dhuumfire_. 33% crit chance + 300 ferocity is over the top for a single trait even if you can only have it on a 50% uptime at best. Make it so that this ferocity is only achievable when the necromancer have a aura and in direct competition with the crit chance, so that he does have to rely on allies to reach reliably it's top dps.
For one necromancers already have to do this both in pvp and pve so there is no reason try and implement it again through a second pointless feature.
Reapers and scourges depend very much on alacrity and quickness like most other classes to achive their top dps in end game and in pvp as a necromancer your potential depends on your team to support/ peel for you or the enemy team being oblivious to you.
This also defeats the whole purpose of the trait rework that happened some months ago that lowered the overly insane amount of crit chance DP had which was kind of a waste. Overall DP is in its best form that its ever been in and should not be changed. The other traits should be changed to match its strength instead of cutting it down back to its outdated version. The crit boost is moderate but reasonable and still feels like a power up for when shroud is activated.
I also dont like this idea because you are splitting two stats that work well together between 2 traits which makes no sense while all other professions off the top of my head keep crit chance + ferocity boost under the same traits and not two different ones where they cant take both at the same time overall your idea is lowering the effectiveness of both traits for the sake of making an outdated trait like Foot in the Grave look more appealing which is just bad design imo. Just update the outdated trait to be more competitive and tempting to take.
As for condi builds make the curses (Barbed Precision) crit on bleed chance 100% anyways, increase its bleed duration to maybe 4 seconds, then just put a short icd on it perhaps 1 second to keep it under control which makes the trait more consistent by lowering its rng factor by 1 mechanic instead of it currently hinging on 2 rng mechanics (your crit chance + another % chance after that to inflict bleed) The game could use less rng across the board.
And lets be real there is no way they wouldn't put icd on it if it had 100% chance to activate on crits knowing you could easily cap your crit chance on necro.
If you really want to help condi builds on other forms of shroud necormancers then we would look at giving Dhumfire split boost for core / reaper and leaving it as is on scourge
* Core skill one inflicts 1 stack of burning for a moderate duration 3-4s + 1 stack for additional conditions on the target (max 5) (very short duration1-2s)
* Reaper skill one inflicts 1 stack of burning for a moderate duration 3-4s and slightly increases skill one's attack range (short wave of green fire with each swing)
* Scourge (stays as is)
-
> @"InFamouz.4097" said:
> I was just wondering, why dosent Reaper shouts have the ammunition system like other classes, i mean Warriors have shake it off!! you guys think that the reaper shouts are too strong for that?
I think only a few of them could use ammo but not all of them. Suffer, you are all weaklings, and perhaps Nothing can save you provided its going to keep its cast time. The other shouts Rise, Your soul is mine, and Chill to the bone would be too strong for ammo i think.
Can we have Shade skills around the scourge back to old setting in PvE?
in Necromancer
Posted
> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:
> > @"totaloverride.3240" said:
> > > @"Trise.2865" said:
> > > Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.
> >
> > tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD
> >
> > > @"Lexi.1398" said:
> > > TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
> >
> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:
> > > Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.
> >
> > scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condi
> > kinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)
> >
> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fix
> > > I dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.
> > > Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.
> >
> > Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...
> > proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.
> > remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?
> >
> > now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvW
> > the moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,
> > i miss scaring ads in boss fights
>
> Scourge got buffed, but you have to use your head a little now on when to place shades and when not too, maybe that is why you see less scourges in groups now xD
Only in wvw
In pvp this was a major nerf in terms of risk for reward the risk is why to high and the reward is not justified. Bonus targets dont mean much in spvp where matches are 5v5 or less.
In pve its just clunky still doable but clunky.
>
>
> To answer the OP, I believe Anet have said that only numbers will be split and not the mechanics, so it's either a revert to the old mechanic or a buff to scourge F skills in pve
Pretty sure they said that on case by case situations mechanical splits will be done where necessary Im pretty sure scourge in its current form qualifies worthy of that if they dont plan to rework the elite spec or shades as a whole.