ZDragon.3046

Im personally not a owner of any legendaries (for the moment)

Never cared enough for many of them. These runes wont be an exception for me. I mainly play 2 characters at any given time (mostly my necro) and i dont often change my stats / build between pve and wvw. There is literally no reason for me to get them. I play a bit too causal to even entertain the idea.

Not to mention as people said its far too cheap and easy just to have extra inventory slots holding any other sets of gear you might really really use which is what I do.

That said this will provide a helpfulness to a small minority I'm sure so I'm not against the idea of them adding it.

Thank god these things wont ad any more sparkle to the already overloaded game engine as that is one thing we really dont need right now.

I keep hearing build templets are on the way possibly. (something i probably wont use outside of spvp to be honest with you)

> @"Akari Storm.6809" said:

> -In addition to the stat swapping they could have added something. Anything. Example: 1 legendary rune activates a 7th bonus slot on legendary runes, an enrichment %, each additional legendary rune increases %. Don't have to make a selectable enrichment, make it all of them like an in armor hero banner that does amulet infusion type enrichments.

> -As far as sigils, could do the same thing minus having to have a set to activate, just a stand alone.

> -Legendary Armor and Items could have been that way also, but does make more sense with how runes are. example though, like aurora and vision, 6 pieces of legendary armor activate an additional box drop from mobs or give selected materiel drops like cores or lodestones or gems or something.

>

> Could have done something more with bonuses, keeping with no stat increases all while providing incentive or carrot. They aren't even doing anything with account bonuses. Account bonuses should be low hanging fruit for a horizontally progressed game.

How to cause problems in your mmo

Lock stat upgrades behind stupidly expensive gear

I dont think you understand how much your proposal goes against anets core vision for the game.

Their goal was to bring people together not rip them apart.

Making an or several expensive exclusive stat increases behind items like these encourages end game segregation.

Imagine going to raid or fractal t4 and being told no because you dont have legendary armor/ weapons / and runes....... or are missing one of the three.

No thanks... i dont support your ideas.

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Richard Marcinko.5132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is 90% health mate.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

> > > > >

> > > > > When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

> > > > >

> > > > > In PvP you take decimate defense

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > > i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.

> > > > > > But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

> > > > >

> > > > > In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

> > > >

> > > > The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

> > >

> > > Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

> > >

> > > It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

> >

> > Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

>

> All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

Note that you are crossing a medium armor profession with a light armor profession

Also note that thief has evades and necro is evade limited

Also note that you are comparing a core trait to a Xpack Trait which requires spending money to own. which in almost all cases the HoT and PoF traits are better than core traits no matter which professions you cross reference.

Ideally your comparison here is not a good one. While i get what you are trying to say you are leaving out a few key things.

Ideally while the new soul eater did not compete with chilling victory before its change it did compete but its effects were minor and more importantly they were not active in shroud.

Next lets remember that Soul eater is only active within 300 rangel meaning the reaper must be in the face of danger without escapes and hard sustain such as evades, invulns, blinks, stealth. etc. to gain its benefits. IF this was not the case I might allow the comparison of this trait to one challenging something like Reapers Onslaught but certainly not it is not worth the weight of a grand master to compete with RO. Because we get right back to square one of why we cant have damage or be healed by others in shroud in end game content and to take self healing would require a massive dps loss which will not be accepted in end game raids (power reaper is already riding the line of viability as it is. A dps loss from critical hits and attack speed is unacceptable at the moment.

If you want to compare Invigorating precision to a healing trait in necros kit you should be looking to something like the core blood magic line and asking why the traits vampiric and vampiric aura do not provide small % healing based on damage done and why they instead work on healing power which people do not take in power builds. Even when you do the scaling is very very very minor and the healing gained its dropplets of hp that add up to maybe a few hundred hp over pretty long durations (not good)

Lastly you should think about how Invigorating precision would be if it healed you in the same manner as Vampiric or Vamp Aura and was based on a stat like healing power instead of critical damage done. To understand why people are frustrated you need to first understand the undermined mess that is necormancer.

> @"Gamble.4580" said:

> Why do we want the healing back? It was useless in pvp and not noticed. If u want a big update we want worm instant cast or a a update the reapers elite

The healing in pve was nice the reason its garbo in pvp is because necromancers dont run full glass and the targets you hit also dont run full glass resulting in much lower dps number meaning the healing is also greatly reduced becaue 5% of much lower damage = much lower health gain. In pve the skill was ideally perfect for increased sustain in shroud when you wanted to keep your roatation and boost back up to that 90%hp + threshhold.

The trait only became op when in pvp you hit a cluster of mobs resulting in all that damage being converted into raw hp.

That said they should have probably flipped it to heal in shroud only and removed the healing from the portion from when you are not in shroud. At least that way it would be been a form of boost for shroud. Which makes shroud stand out an impressive tool rather than taking from it.

Now that some time has passed I can honestly say the healing out of shroud helps me greatly like every once in a while but not often.... i would really like to see this trait reworked now "again...." it has no flavor to it if not for the sake of "its a damage mod" i wouldn't run it. I would have gone back to DD the moment they posted the idea of the change.

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > The old version was what 8 seconds and did all of these things with superb tracking and was considerably much better off because it actually required a foe to dodge it.

> > > Also by your definition you are saying it should have been nerfed because it was too strong ( do you really play at the high level i dont think you do)

> >

> > The old version had a 15 second CD.

> > All in all this new shrd#2 just need to be used differently than it was before. You "arm" it at close range and use the teleport ability if your foe run away from you. I just find that the CD on the first part (_dark path_) a bit high and that chill ought to be tied to the second part (_dark pursuit_).

>

> The pathing fail potential is too high without tracking. The old methods relied on tracking for completion. The new method is just RNG and that is not a skill. Close range is great but "Dark Pursuit" is not a mobility skill if it's outcome is a wild gamble.

>

> Arenanet saying, "the odds are worse but you can try it more," is bad design.

^ This

And people should not be defending it by saying "You just need to use it while being close now or it requires a different play style" and then naming a play style the the old one forced you into anyways but at least it was accurate. Ideally there was no reason to remove the tracking form this skill.

Even with the all the other buffs to core necormancer its still no real compeitition to any of the elite specs. All they have done here is making me want to give core less time because they have ruined a skills accuracy for no real reason. They fixed focus 4 skill to be proper and accurate and then they take dark path and give it the same issues the old focus 4 skill had. WE BEGGED FOR YEARS about how inaccurate the old focus 4 was unless you used it up close which made it pointless despite its 1200 range potential. Why on earth would anyone think that we would want a skill like that to come back in any form let alone one in core shroud.

I simply cant understand how anyone defends this change.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > The old version was what 8 seconds and did all of these things with superb tracking and was considerably much better off because it actually required a foe to dodge it.

> > Also by your definition you are saying it should have been nerfed because it was too strong ( do you really play at the high level i dont think you do)

>

> The old version had a 15 second CD.

> All in all this new shrd#2 just need to be used differently than it was before. You "arm" it at close range and use the teleport ability if your foe run away from you. I just find that the CD on the first part (_dark path_) a bit high and that chill ought to be tied to the second part (_dark pursuit_).

that defeats the purpose of making breaking the port away from the skill i dont see why this was needed tbh

The fact that spectral grasp and scorpion wire now have a higher hit accuracy simply because their projectiles are faster (despite tracking the in the same way) saddens me.

Dark path is now the equivalent of a slightly faster staff atuo attack in terms of accuracy aka its not very accurate. I would rather have the old version at least it was accurate. Required a foe to dodge it to avoided it rather than them move unconsciously slightly in any direction and the skill miss beyond 600 range some times even closer than that.

Core necromancer improvements that dont make it any more effective than it previously was and shadow nerf to Dark path...

Congrats core necormancer just took 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Just when i was hoping so badly that this change would be a dream come true its a total failure.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Sileeent.5861" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

> > >

> > > Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

>

> Um ... not sure that's true ...

>

> To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

>

Not sure your statement is true either ...

Remember that the previous version got you 200 hp for just holding the weapon and 0.5% life force per second.

Some necromancer attacks depending on the weapon take longer than a second and or hitting a single target will not net you 200 hp before your damage ramps

Because its necro your damage does not ramp as instantly or as fast as other professions not to mention the life force gain is not there either which could be regarded as more health or more shroud up time depending on the situation. And the 20% cooldown reduction is gone too. I spent alot of time using the old soul eater before it got changed specifically in pvp if you are curious and ill tell you right now 220hp per second is good bit of sustain when you are kiting a foe, not specifically able to make attacks or avoiding attacks vs something that requires you to attack in melee range.

to call it "Better" possible under very niche situations but it still requires you to attack with some of the slowest weapons in the game in melee range.

Dagger is the slowest dagger in the game on necro and it has no fearful offensive pressure like spellbreakers leaps and quick shank stun, Greatsword is the slowest greatsword in the game and does not specifically hit any harder than any other professions greatswords.

to call it "Way better" is a bit silly (especially from a pvp perspective) in pvp this trait maybe at anytime gave you hp equivalent to running blood magic remember that people dont run glass cannon builds in pvp all the time. Not only is your personal damage lower as a result other characters are also much tougher and take less damage resulting in lesser healing from this triat you cant compare it with the heal numbers you might be use to seeing in say pve where every auto swing is 12k damage

In pve meh its probably still better (provide you hit a cluster of mobs with grave digger or something)

You shouldn't use terms like QQ like its cute because its not. Dont end a serious conversation with a silly passive aggressive taunt.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > if you cast it at max range combined with the cast time and slow moving projectile it take about 2 sec to reach the target , and the enemy can avoid it by just walking in the opposite direction (doesn't even need to dodge) .

> And eats at least 2 life blasts for about 8k damage while doing so...

>

> > Anet over killed it with the cast time and slow moving projectile .

> > it's their new trend of making every thing on necro slow and useless ( remember focus 4 , and Grasping Darkness with the last patch both changed to slower attack ).

> When reading the comments about core necro and dark path I get the impression that no one plays core necro on a high level.

you are missing the point

>

> 1) Why would you want to teleport to a target at 1200 range when your strongest and safest attack is a 1200 range projectile.

We are not concerned with the teleport that part is fine we like that part its a very nice improvement to the skill

> 2) Isn't baiting a dodge with dark path when your target wants to close the gap a good strategy?

No because one of your critical traits causes that skill to corrupt boons and if you are speaking pvp (because you brought up baiting dodges) corrupting boons IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL IN TODAYS META for necormancer sustain and survival especially on core

> 3) Ever heard of doom (shroud3) to fear your target right before dark path connects to deny a dodge?

Are you aware that if the target breaks the fear right now and moves in any direction the skill will miss (without them having to dodge) which is the main issue we are talking about

> 4) A skill on a 6 second cooldown has to have some miss potential if it is so strong like dark path (aoe, damage, corrupt, chill, bleed, shadowstep).

The old version was what 8 seconds and did all of these things with superb tracking and was considerably much better off because it actually required a foe to dodge it.

Also by your definition you are saying it should have been nerfed because it was too strong ( do you really play at the high level i dont think you do)

> 5) If you really want to teleport to your target, you have at least 2 chances to land dark path in one shroud uptime because the cooldown is very low.

Thats not the point most people wont use the teleport unless they feel like they can end the fight thats the whole point of breaking the forced port away from the skill.

> 7) Use it strategically and cast it into a blocking target since it's unblockable. Blocking targets don't dodge!

Once again this was already a thing with the previous skill so what your real reasoning for fighting the idea that removing the tracking made it considerably worse

You clearly cant play at the high level because the things you are spewing dont make sense. Everyone knows these combos and facts you are stating yet you are sitting here claiming that the skill needed to have flaw wiggle room because its to strong for doing the things it already did in its previous version.

1 it was an optional shadow step from the get go

2 it accurately forced a foe to dodge to avoid it because it was sure to hit and cause issues if you allowed it to do so

3 it now can be avoided by simply changing direction slightly which most players will do while in combat without really thinking about it (think about the old reapers touch on focus 4

4 to accurately land it now you will need to be much closer generally to your foe I can promise you in pvp you will not accurately land the new dark pat as often as its older version at 1200 range.

5 its literally just like the necro staff auto let some one staff auto you and step side to side and watch what happens thats what dark path does right now.

Return tracking to the skills projectile

Edit scratch that just return its tracking im rather furious about this

I was actually going to make a post about this myself. For pvp and wvw its literally a shadow nerf or feels like one. The skill is considerably worse than what it was before as it now can be dodged by your target simply changing direction (in most cases unconsciously) causing the skill to miss completely.

You can use it more often but it will now miss more often as well.

This is 2019 we should not be seeing new skills come into the game that track with the same code as

Necromancer staff auto

The old focus 4 reapers touch

Skills like these which are slow, move in a straight line on a path assuming where the target will be a ARE VERY VERY BAD for PvP where people will make tons of movements that you cannot predict and skills that track like this cannot accurately predict them either.

From a Mechanical stand point

The quality of life of the skill not force porting you in to danger is an improvement

Removing the skills tracking and replacing it with a code that attempts to guess at where your target will be after a set time IS NOT an improvement.

Even in pve the old skill would never miss an AI mob unless that mob was doing an evade action. This skill has the potental to miss even PVE AI if they armoving at the cast of the skill but stop moving as the hand is flying. The hand is already on a set path to where it was assuming the monster would be based on the movements it was making at the end of the cast. This results in the hand flying oddly off to the left or right and missing completely

In pvp and wvw this is CONSIDERABLY WORSE

This skill either needs to have its tracking reverted or they need to take a good look at necromancers offhand focus 4 skill and copy that onto Dark path! That is how the skill should track.

I dont approve of this skill in any game mode right now simply because it can miss and it wont be the casters fault that it misses for using it at the wrong time. IT will miss because its using outdated tracking code that attempts to guess where a target will be based on their movements at exactly the end of your cast. If the target is not where the skill estimated them to be because they stopped moving in that direction in the slightest bit the skill will fly off and miss.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > Make one trait:

> > If your lifeforce is full, and you'd get lifeforce, get half of the amount of lifeforce as barrier. (Maybe add a limitation like: maximum barrier amount per lifeforce source: 2000).

> > And only lifeforce generated by skills, not by nearby deaths

>

> The idea is sexy but awfuly OP in WvW. I'd rather see:

> First minor:

> _Death ritual_: Summon a jagged horror when you kill a foe. ICD: 3 seconds.

> Second minor:

> _Necromantic corruption_: Minions take conditions from you every 10 seconds.

> Third minor:

> _Beyond the veil_: Grant _dark aura_ instead of protection.

> Major:

> _Soul comprehension_: whenever you gain LF from nearby death gain a stack of vitality (same stacks as _grim reaper_'s). Max stack: 10. Vitality per stack: 30. Stacks duration: 20s. (Replace _Flesh of the master_)

> _Armored shroud_: While in shroud vitality stacks grant you extra toughness. Toughness per stack: 20-30. (replace _necromantic corruption_)

> _Flesh of the master_: You share the effect of your stack of vitality with your minions. Gain _dark aura_ when you use a minion's active skill (replace _Death nova_).

> _Putrid defense_: take less damage from poison foes. You and your minions leave a poison field when downed.

> _Dark defiance_: This trait now grant you _dark aura_ when disable (instead of protection) and give 20% damage reduction when under the effect of an aura.

You got some cool ideas here as usual although....

The issue i see is that you have a lot of traits that are too inactive until something dies we should probably try to remove those for something more active.

Consider use for both pvp, wvw, and pve

While the idea of kill mobs get vitality and minions, minions die get more vitality is good in pve and maybe wvw however in pvp at the moment this is unusable. You are effectively giving yourself a non existent trait and traits line until the fighting is already over. Ideally the line right now is more active than what it would be with your current vision i would have to say. A lot of the traits also serve 0 purpose in long winded fights where there may be nothing around to die and proc the benefits.

Ideally while i agree there are too many minion traits and that they should be wrapped up nicely in to possibly 1 grand master trait the a lot of your other traits that would also trigger on death (of a foe) need to be phased out just not good design for the current necormancer that is in gw2.

I would suggest the following perhaps

**Putrid defense**- becomes the first minor

Simply needs to be take less damage from conditioned foes.

-2% per unique condition, keeps the death nova/ poison drop on down state and on minion deaths you suggested

**Death Ritual**- becomes one of the adept traits

Summon 3 jagged horrors for 15 seconds every when entering shroud while in combat. The cooldown is limited to the shroud entry mechanic. When managed well you can have 6 for a short time assuming they won get killed right away.

**Shrouded removal**- remains an adept

Now only focuses on damaging conditions and ignores clearing movement impairing conditions.

**Death Trench** - new adept

Gain barrier when exiting shroud. Barrier amount increases based on Dark Specter stacks (get to this in a bit)

**Beyond the veil** - becomes the second minor

Grants Dark Aura when leaving shroud, Dark aura also reduces damage taken by 20%

**Necromantic Corruption**- remains a master but is reworked

Shroud activation cool down is reduced by 3 second for core and reaper

- With scourge equipped, shroud duration is extended by an additional 2 seconds.

**Dark Defiance** - remains a master

Upon being Disabled gain Dark Aura, Incoming disables are reduced while Dark Aura is active

**Deathly strength** - remains a master

Unchanged

**Dark Specter** - becomes the new 3rd minor

Combines your idea for armored shroud and soul comp into 1 minor trait.

Gain a stack of "Dark Specter" when entering shroud and an additional stack in shroud every 2 seconds shroud is active for 15 seconds.

(cap at stacks 5, 30 toughness/ 20Vitality per stack ) in combat only.

I feel like i should speak on this one for a moment

While your ideas to have Armored shroud and soul comp be two things was not completely bad one would not work without the other forcing the player to take both to gain the benefit of one or the other.

Secondly they were part of the issue ive labeled out at the start of this. They would serve 0 purpose until the fighting is done. In extended fights where no adds spawn / die they wont grant any benefit either. So I moved them to something that that revolves around a core part any necromancer build and play style which is the shroud. This not only gives them active use it also allows the necromancer to control said use and manage them from the start of a fight all the way to the end while providing some functionality in and out of shroud which tend to make for the best traits when managed with upkeep it combos much like **soul barbs** does.

By combining both and moving them to a minor you get the effect even if you don't commit to a minion build which is still useful to the necromancer. While being a much more active trait in general.

**Flesh of the master** - The new minion grand master trait

Minions move and attack faster for a short time when they take a condition from you, minions take conditions from you every 10 seconds

Active Minion skills reduced by 10% plus an additional 5% for each stack of Dark Specter applied to you

**Corrupter's Fervor** - Remains a grandmaster and is now reworked to modify Dark Specter minor trait

Reduces the duration of Dark Spector from 15 seconds to 8 seconds

Increases the maximum stack count of Dark Specter to from 5 to 10

Stacks of Dark Specter can now also be gained by applying a conditions to a foes in or out of shroud.

Additionally Dark specter now reduces incoming condition damage by 2%

**Unholy Sanctuary** - remains a grand master with new effect

Its base effects remain unchanged

This trait heals for 20% more for each stack of Dark Specter applied to you while in shroud. Heal boost only applies to healing gained from this trait

While thematically the idea of using dead bodies for parts is cool it is also impractical in the combat and current style of guild wars 2 necromancer.

ESO's Necromancer handled this issue a bit better by having some skills create body piles or soul tokens (which ever you prefer) for other skills to combo with in extended situations where nothing may die for a while or at the start of an encounter. Because the gw2 necromancer lacks these kinds of tools I would not focus on traits that state "When a foe dies" or is reliant on there being "A dead thing" to proc said effect. Because its just not ideal for too many situations but the end of a fight and going into the next fight your "perks" from the previous death have either mostly expired or completely expired.

If jagged horrors lasted for ever and or we could expect your vitality / toughness stacks to last forever then sure at least that way once you build them up you have them until you die or go down but thats not likely based on how every other skill in necromancer or the game in general functions right now nothing last forever there are always time limits or range limits for things like this. Because of that having them be reliant only on the end of a encounter (say on enemy death) is never going to be truly effective.

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > Soul Comprehension: When Life Force is 50% or greater, F1 will consume 50% of LF and provide 3 stacks of stability for 1 seconds and 1500 toughness for 2 seconds.

> > >

> > > This is just a simple concept to enable some aggro control and tanking ability to Death Magic. The trait line will still be an abysmal dps loss for all but MM builds and, of course it will mess with minion aggro control but it is a start.

> > >

> > > LF generation will become critical for a Necro-tank so dps takes a back seat, as it should when tanking.

> > >

> > > ps, Shroud flashing comes back with a purpose.

> >

> > Sounds like its only good for scourge to be honest. This idea will not work with reaper and core and will be clunky with them as it will force people who do run death magic to never exceed 50% lf or make them be forced to wait till far above 50% to activate it.

> >

> > Remember that shroud is also an offensive tool your idea would not allow people to use its offensive skills (especially with reaper.) to be honest for a minor 1500 toughness is also alot in total the toughness bonuses you would be getting would be far too insane. Im sorry i can agree with this idea. This idea is another example where the risk is not worth the reward based on my experience of playing necro over the past few years.

> >

> > A better idea for **soul comp would be brining the shroud 30% reduction** back. **making shroud entry 7 seconds** for core and reaper. To be honest death magic seems perfect for the trait and it would make a massive trade off as you have to give up spite, curses, or soul reaping for such a powerful trait that people really really miss having apparently

> >

> > Death magic in my opinion would be perfect for at trait like that. With that said other things deathmagic need other fixes too.

>

> Actually, I had imagined it being more useful for core Necro. Because of the expected LF cost, dagger / focus and AA for LF generation would be most of the rotation with axe / WH / focus or staff being used when ranged.

>

> The sole objective of the concept was to provide Necro with high toughness and temporary immunity to CC. It came while considering the Lich elite and former Plague Form. With a trait that gave immunity to CC, if used ahead of time, and temporary, very high toughness, Necro could actually tank in PvE. To do so seemed like it would require a significant sacrifice because, as we all know, Necromancer cannot have nice things. However, consuming a lot of LF to proc such a skill seems reasonable.

Well your objective would fail for a few reasons.

1 high toughness does not matter in this game in pvp right now you can still be 1 shot regardless of how high your toughness is

2 stab can be corrupted by other necormancers and stripped by a plethra of classes and now you dont have shroud mode either because you burned your bar on a boon that is easily removed.

3 this makes the traitline unusable for some situations like organized fractals and raids where another person may be the dictated tank. A boost in toughness like that would cause all kinds of problems the moment the user pressed the button.

>

> Tanking with such a severe trade in LF would also mean Necro loses a lot of sustain. Not only will it cost a large amount of LF, it will also cause it to be focused, hard. To make it work, Necro would have to flash shroud, build for boon duration and hope for protection, and rely on incoming heals and regeneration. Outgoing damage would be bad while doing this but could be mitigated by traits like Deadly Strength.

>

> The whole concept is to allow functional tanking (aggro control, anti-CC, and defense) at a cost to dps and a reliance on allies to heal any kitten from missed timing of shroud. Reaper already has limited shroud time so I did not expect it to be used on the power-dps elite. Similarly, Scourge needs to watch LF because of its consumption by Shade mechanics. Core Necro, though, has slow degeneration and low shroud cost while still having access to good LF generation on weapons and utilities like Spectral skills. Consuming a large amount of LF for very high toughness and stability seems reasonable in PvE.

Im sorry to say that necro will never be anti cc. Necromancer is so far behind in the anti cc game that even a trait like this wont prevent them from being knocked around like a pinball when some one wants to knock them around like a pinball. Scourges simply would never use this trait as they already have access to stab via other utilities. Im sorry to say this tait idea is just bad. Having a boon agies block on shroud entry and exit would do much better than your idea to be honest. You said it could be stripped and corrupted to someone else but you think that your stability idea can fall to the same concept and situation with a much more of a risk as you would be feared in the process.

Sorry to say your trait idea here is just bad. No offensive for coming up with an idea but this is a bad one. Like so many other traits the risk is not worth the reward. On ANY BUILD.

>

> In PvP, Death Magic would be horrible without a split of some kind but, if the LF cost was lower in competitive modes, it could be like FitG without the stun break. At the same time, both elite specializations would become starved for LF so the Death Magic trait resulting in a constant scramble to generate more LF.

It wont matter how low you make the cost its simply not worth it if you want stab on f1 or shroud entry just take foot in the grave. ITs free and a break stun has no life force cost. On reaper any life force cost is too high due to how fast life force drains.

Core is still too weak to compete and adding more toughness wont matter.

Scourge loses alot to take death magic not to mention most death magic traits dont work very well with scourge let alone any other shroud be it core or reaper...

Im not trying to be mean but dont be surprised when alot of people axe this idea you have its simply not a good it would be considerably worse for necro as a whole.

We dont need more traits with more risk than the reward given.

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > A better idea for **soul comp would be brining the shroud 30% reduction** back. **making shroud entry 7 seconds** for core and reaper. To be honest death magic seems perfect for the trait and it would make a massive trade off as you have to give up spite, curses, or soul reaping for such a powerful trait that people really really miss having apparently

> >

> > Death magic in my opinion would be perfect for at trait like that. With that said other things deathmagic need other fixes too.

>

> People would probably QQ real had if they did. Almost like Anet was mocking them by making them take Death Magic for the precious 3s reduction.

to be honest that would be the better place to put it the main quality of having shroud entry up more often is that its less of a vunerabile time for the necormancer to be exposed without it. This makes it increase sustain through not only being able to activate it more often but also proc other shroud traits more often. Death magic is a self sustain line with shroud traits that actually prove it as such....

People only want it back in soul reaping so they dont have to make a trade for it. But realisticly its not going to come back there nor does it really need to.

The way i see it is that it comes back in 1 of 2 ways. IT comes as a base feature to reaper shroud only as reaper shroud has a higher life force cost and may want to be dived into more often when under assult from melee attackers. or it comes back as a trait in death magic provide the rest of death magic gets a rework too.

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Soul Comprehension: When Life Force is 50% or greater, F1 will consume 50% of LF and provide 3 stacks of stability for 1 seconds and 1500 toughness for 2 seconds.

>

> This is just a simple concept to enable some aggro control and tanking ability to Death Magic. The trait line will still be an abysmal dps loss for all but MM builds and, of course it will mess with minion aggro control but it is a start.

>

> LF generation will become critical for a Necro-tank so dps takes a back seat, as it should when tanking.

>

> ps, Shroud flashing comes back with a purpose.

Sounds like its only good for scourge to be honest. This idea will not work with reaper and core and will be clunky with them as it will force people who do run death magic to never exceed 50% lf or make them be forced to wait till far above 50% to activate it.

Remember that shroud is also an offensive tool your idea would not allow people to use its offensive skills (especially with reaper.) to be honest for a minor 1500 toughness is also alot in total the toughness bonuses you would be getting would be far too insane. Im sorry i can agree with this idea. This idea is another example where the risk is not worth the reward based on my experience of playing necro over the past few years.

A better idea for **soul comp would be brining the shroud 30% reduction** back. **making shroud entry 7 seconds** for core and reaper. To be honest death magic seems perfect for the trait and it would make a massive trade off as you have to give up spite, curses, or soul reaping for such a powerful trait that people really really miss having apparently

Death magic in my opinion would be perfect for at trait like that. With that said other things deathmagic need other fixes too.

ive been saying remove quickness from RO for a while now and just make the base shroud faster by about 33% down from the 50% that quickness gives.

You do this by reducing all the cast times on reaper shroud skills by 33%

You don't need to add quickness on to Relentless pursuit that trait is already pretty strong as it for an adept to be honest.

Simply put reaper should not need quickness to not feel clunky

Simply making the base shroud faster would be a massive QoL change and open build diversity back up. People would likely be a mix between running blighters boon and RO again

If the base shroud was faster in its attacks in general when combined with blighters boon people wouldn't even give 2 dolyaks about the nerf to soul eater possibly :unamused: . If you wanted a bit more sustain just take blighters That said RO would possibly need a new mechanical buff

My suggestion would be making it keep everything but the pulsing quickness.

Make it so that it modifies one of the reaper shroud skills instead.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > I got a question why is obtenna defending sustain nerfs to necro?

>

> Because I recognize that other things won't get fixed if we have broken or unintended tools in the toolset. I can't tell you how many times I've seen EXACTLY this behaviour in every MMO I've ever played; the bugs and unintended elements are always targetted first, no matter what the current state of the game.

Except anet didnt say they are changing it as a correction due to a bug you are being overly critical and defensive here its fine to have your opinion but it does not make your opinion fact you speak on things as if they are facts

>

> You know what screws me over as a necro? I can tell you it's not the loss of OP'ed healing in shroud because I'm pretty sure OP'ed healing in shroud wasn't in the plan in the first place. Maybe you think denying this was too strong changes that ... pretty sure that doesn't play into how anet makes plans for any class they are changing.

Well lets get it right first off it was not op in 90% of situations in most game modes so lets not call it that.

IT was op if you hit a cluster of mobs with say soul spiral etc.

If you were attacking a single target even more so one at the end game level on a glass build healing for a few hundred or possibly even a few thousand hp is not considered op. I'll tell you right now that in raids taking a hard hit and thinking soul eater will heal you to full hp in a few swings is a thing. ITS not.

Doing bounties on a glass cannon build and taking a hard hit taking a few swings wont refill your hp.

Ideally I can understand anets want to reduce the effectiveness of this trait for hitting clusters of mobs as thats the only time the trait is very strong and instantly refills your hp. But there are other ways to accomplish this simply reducing the heal effectiveness by half or a certain % in shroud would have sufficed as reducing sustain while keeping a great trait mechanically safe as a full functioning trait in and out of shroud vs a ANOTHER TRAIT that necro now has that will not partly work in shroud. WE ALREADY HAVE A TON OF THESE.

Back to the topic.... Are you sure it was not mean to heal in shroud from the start? How can you be so sure?

Just because a trait does not label that it will or will not work in shroud does not mean that it should not or will not work in shroud. Deathly Chill for example states when you inflict chill you also cause bleeding. It never states that it will or will not work in shroud which is implied that it will work in both.

Now if you want to make the argument that the old soul eater didn't heal in shroud there for this one should not either ill tell you why that didnt happen. Its not because the trait was disabled in shroud. Its because when you activate reaper shroud the game's code registers your character as holding a hammer and not a great sword. This means that by the old soul eaters code command or obvious text "You must be holding a great sword for it to activate" But if the game sees you as holding a hammer then its obviously not active. This is why the old version did not heal in shroud/function in shroud.

Ideally this soul eater the new version before the nerf today was set to be a great trait that provide function both in and out of shroud it thematically made sense and now that its losing one of its biggest features completely in shroud its going to become mostly a bland damage modifier. They could have reduced the heal % to 2 or 3 % and even accomplished what they were aiming for this while allowing the trait to keep some of its thematic flavor. The fact that you "might" whole heartedly support the idea of the nerf with your mind "possibly" set in the wrong direction is kind of astounding.

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> And they can change FiTG to 30% reduction on Shroud CD.

This is not a good idea for so many reasons

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > > > Chill damage was my favourite trait, I still don't get why they removed it when Necromancers have had some of the WORST Damage per Second of all professions.

> > >

> > > There is 2 reasons:

> > > - The first reason is that at that moment the necromancer had longer chill and it gave to much condi burst to some condi build. This led to a lot of "nerf necro condi cancer" threads in the PvP subforum.

> > > - The second reason is the way chill work as a condition. Chill is a condition that stack in duration to a maximum of 5 stacks. This mean that technically only 1 chill affect the target at a time and the owner of this "chill" can be reset at any moment creating mechanism "conflict" instead of "synergy" in group fights. In short the trait fonctionnality was effectively a burden to the efficiency of the build as soon as you were playing with other players using the same trait.

> > >

> > > To prevent these 2 point ANet butchered necromancer's chill duration and replaced the chill damage by a proc of bleed. Replacing the chill damage by a bleed proc wasn't a bad thing at all, especially since this game is a mmorpg where you are supposed to take on challenges with other players not be a solo hero.

> >

> > then why not make it so necromancers applied a unique debuff that did damage when they applied chill and lasted as long as chill applies does, stacking, so if you applied a 5s chill and someone else applied a 5s chill, the chill would be 10s but you would only have 5s of that debuff, but if you did 3 instances of 5s of chill both would be 15s, as multiple necromancers can use signet of vampirism on the same target etc.

>

> Because proc'ing bleed was easier to introduce as a hotfix than a "new condition" that would have to work alongside mechanism such as cleanse, condition conversion and resistance.

Not so sure how i feel about that, Posion and burning often had the same problems and the problem was solved by allowing them to stack in intensity instead of duration. No one really bothered to complain about those conditions at the time because well... people didnt care as much about condition damage back then. Secondly condition damage was not as strong as it is now. Bleeds were stronger than most conditions back then because it could stack where as other condition types could not.

bleeding is now the weakest condition because everything else can stack just as freely and the raito for bleeding damage is very low.

To be frank allowing chill to stack in intensity now wouldn't be bad at all. In pve it wouldn't matter and in pvp there is more than enough condition clear for it in todays meta.

Even if what you say is really the case note that you used the word "hotfix" as which is usually implied as a temporary solution. From that aspect we can possibly still argue that the trait could be retouched to be better than its current form even more so now that chill has been nerfed countless times and even the bleed procking was culled down in several ways. In most cases the trait had to be exploited to be considered viable and thats not a good sign. Deathly chill in 2019 or 2020 could certainly use a more perma retouch to how it functions be it new effect or changing the conditions applied.

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > > Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave .

> >

> > Can you point out other examples of everyone gets stunbreak in the adept?

> >

> > Off the top of my head i cant think of more than 1 or 2 at best. Unstoppable union being one of them.

> > If i recall most stun breaks traits are in the master slot ;) and these days some of them dont even break stun anymore.

> Well apparently https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break almost every class excluding necro.

>

Thats not what you said though.

You said each one has one in the adpet slot there for necro should have one.... to be blunt thats not true

Facts

Most professions do have a passive stun break

Most professiosn that have a passive stun break trait have it usually sitting in the master or grandmaster slot

Necromancer use to have a stunbreak passive that triggered at 50% hp. IT was removed along with the patch that culled a lot of passive survival tools.

The trait that necro should have that acts as a passive stun breaker should have always been

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Defiance

Previously named Reaper's Protection however because death magic is so weak and tragic it didnt even break your stun, because that would be op to have passive that breaks your stun instantly on necormancer (Sarcasm) I dont know why it didnt likely because like the rest of death magic its very bad for anything other than some extra toughness points.

That said Just because Soul beast has one in the adept slot does not mean speed of shadows needs to be changed to do that.

The trait of concern should be Foot in the Grave period. Yes its weak at the moment and thats the reason you should be drawing concern to it instead of trying to add another trait that does the same thing in a lower slot.

Overall its really surprising how anet often picks things to improve or cut for necro. Its tough thinking that some one or enough people on the balance team actively play it.

Its almost like the people who play other things fight necros or watch them without playing it and then balance necros based on what they think is making them strong or what is not making them strong. So its more so shots in the dark in most cases.

For example Death shroud buffs

Shroud skill 2 is a good Quality of life change or perhaps its a shadow nerf to how well the current version of the skill tracks, or perhaps the idea is that necros who use the blink function will have a longer cd than they had before originally

Skills 4 and 5 cd reduction cuts should have been done ages ago but the skills still wont be effective enough to make massive difference when used. They are still the same skills which means same results as they are now. Core dps wont improve, it wont be as solid as say core ranger, warrior, mesmer, guardian etc.

Doom did not get any improvements

Life blast still needed a bit more for its slow cast.

Touched underwater skills that wont ever really be used.

They noted on a few other professions by saying things like "We have heard your concerns, or We have heard your feedback on etc etc" Yet with all the feedback they get for necro none of it gets followed through.

Sad.. but ill carry on necro is still my fav profession. Other things dont hold my attention as much.

It just needs a few trait lines get a good passover. (Death magic and Blood magic. yes blood magic needs a passover too far too many impractical traits in there for my taste personally) I shouldnt take a trait line for one or two traits i like and cringe at the rest of my options and minors.

Many of the utility skills need a passover too ie lich form, some of the signets, the minions for sure.

Some traits need to be heavily buffed when used with core necromancer Dhuumfire for example being one off the top of my head. The core shroud also needs much much more while it is getting nice cooldown buffs tomorrow things like more condi application on some skills and more damage on some skills is still needed. To bring it up in line with say core mesmer, guardian, ranger, warrior, etc.

More self options other than might for boons would be nice as well possibly death magic could help there with the grand number of useless traits it has that are just waiting to be replaced.

Right now some core professions can actually still be very very relevant to the meta. Core necormancer is not really one of them, even more so in pve.

It does not however need a totally pass over. There are a lot of good things in the current form of necro that need to remain that way.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > ppl were killing ambients for insane healing

> > not sure if the change was directed at that or not, idk

> That's a 2012 design issue. They forgot to give ambient creatures some stats. This can be fixed easily and already has been fixed in PoF.

>

> PoF map ambient creatures have normal armor values. So you deal normal damage numbers to them.

>

> Try it out!

Thats not a real issue lol Its not like thats gonna be a thing happening 24/7 and even so in pve it open world it shouldnt matter. Futher more why not fix the issue then nerf the trait that would make the most sense.

>

> > @"mulzi.8273" said:

> > Although what really baffles me, as a WvW player, that 98% of all necros are scourges and they nerf Reapers for being too strong?

> They balance on the basis of pvp class presence and win statistics. Reaper seems to have done too well in the last 3 months.

>

> Unfortunately they never answered the question whether they balance around platinum or bronze or a bit of everything.

Because they probably dont balance around either one of those. They likely do it by wvw and or pve

The soul eater nerf is likely directly targeted at or from pve

IF the balanced was 100% based around pvp we wouldnt likely see chaotic interruption mesmers of any kinds, sage mantras firebrand, one shot revs, and static charge holos getting the nerfs. Ideally at least some of the things that currently rule the meta wouldnt continue to rule said meta. But with these changes i dont see anything thats currently at the top charts moving off the top charts

Reaper was doing well before the Soul eater change lets get that right. Reaper has been doing solid ever sense the Reapers onslaught change basically and thats just facts. Soul eaters effectiveness in pvp is marginal if not sub par. The healing obtained from it is not noticeable for me... its arguably no better than blood magic healing if only slightly in pvp. Which is why i dont get why its being changed that said in pve the trait can be strong on a cluster of mobs but only in that situation. Its healing not very strong against a single target even in pve especially if you are not in shroud

All they needed to do to cut it back slightly was reduce healing from the trait by like 33% in shroud.

>

> > @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> > Blighter's boon

> Blighter's Boon has always been bad and useless if spite, chilling victory and might sigil were not picked to create boons. A grandmaster trait should be useful on its own.

>

> This trait needs and has always needed a rework.

>

> And seriously, Deathly Chill is a joke of a gm trait. That trait could be a minor trait as well in its current pvp/wvw form.

>

> Before touching Onslaught the other two traits need to be fixed.

>

What in the world are you talking about?

Blighters boon is actually one of the best shroud traits in the game when matched with spite. It provides effective function in and out of shroud. It was the pvp power option of choice before Reapers onslaught quickness out classed it. Even now if you know how to set it up it can provide alot of healing and life force.

If anet does a quality of life nerf to Reapers Onslaught and removes the quickness from it and just makes the base reaper shroud faster in attacking speed say 33% faster down from the 50% that quickness gives.

People will flood back to blighters boon. The main reason people take Reapers onslaught in pvp right now is because more often than not the base reaper shroud feels far too slow to the rest of the meta it also makes bursting better not for the extra critical damage but for the speed at which the damage is applied. In this meta everything needs to kill quick if not instantly and i kind of hate it to some extent. Reaper without that attacking speed is at a big handicap to other professions that kill you in a second or two.

The only good thing about using blighters boon right now is that the first time you fight some one you may catch them off guard with how slow your attacks are. People have grown far too use to quickness reaper and often dodge critical skills like soul spiral and executioners scythe far too early resulting in them taking the damage that they normally would have evaded.

Blighters boon is 100% **NOT** the trait that needs to change. That would be "Chilliing Victory" and possibly "Deathly Chill" if anything maybe even the shout trait

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave .

Can you point out other examples of everyone gets stunbreak in the adept?

Off the top of my head i cant think of more than 1 or 2 at best. Unstoppable union being one of them.

If i recall most stun breaks traits are in the master slot ;) and these days some of them dont even break stun anymore.

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> -snip-

> > foot in the grave should pulse stability much like juggernaut pulses stability for engi. That is what a grandmaster trait should look like.

>

> Pulsing stab puts you at major risk of being chain feared by other necros. Our lich form is one big example of that. However as long as stunbreak gets moved to grandmaster minor and is not chained to stab it could still be an idea, since you would not risk chain fearing just to be able to stunbreak from cc when entering shroud.

>

>

This is what i was going to say to be honest it would make necro super countable to other necros its a bad idea

what really needs to happen is simply a break stun , 2 stacks of stab for a slightly longer duration along with a mechanic that triggers when leaving shroud or is active while not in shroud.

The best designed shroud traits are the ones that provide functions both and in and out anet just has not realized this yet.

> @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> > > With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

> > >

> > > I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

> >

> > No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

> >

> > But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specifically

> > Speed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

> >

> > While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

>

> Have you seen the changes to unstoppable union? It does what speed of shadows does, except it is blatantly better while they are both ADEPT traits. Foot in the grave provides the stun break, and one stack of stability for 3 seconds. It also has to compete with death perception.

>

> I would argue that the new unstoppable union, an ADEPT trait, is a stronger defensive trait that Foot in the grave now, a GRANDMASTER trait.

Also remember that Soul Beast cost money and there fore its better than a core game trait is. As much as i would love the two to be equal in terms of power there is likely a reason why they are not. Necro has traits all over that dont make sense when you compare them to another professions traits. That said as a sustain based trait you are also crossing from a light armored profession to a medium armored one there are just alot of inconsistencies there.

Like i said the better way to handle this would be to make Foot in the Grave equal in terms of power to death perception. That trait has been under tuned for some years now mean while speed of shadows offers quite a bit of help for non staff users when it comes to being locked down by movement impairing conditions.

Besides to have 2 traits that do the same thing in the same traitline would be a waste of a trait slot. If you want a strong stun break on entering shroud then you should at least go for using the grand master slot so that its not something weak and meaningless.

The other option is hope for a death magic rework with an adept that does something similar as it should be necros best personal sustain or defensive line of traits.

> @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

>

> I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specifically

Speed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.