Megametzler.5729

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it...

So this is the weaver bunker build, more or less. I am actually playing a more offensive variant myself. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZweYSsImJOSXbvfA-z5YXGZWA9mAOPA Indeed higher uptime of stability due to Stone Resonance. Apart from that, it is the usual fire weaver build just with some more defensive runes/sigills (or was it Rune of the Forge? Well, details). I think, with mender's this becomes even more one-trick pony'y, because even less damage but even more healing/barrier. However, it has zero decap capabilities and very low chase potential paired with low damage even on sage amulet. Even disengage potential is low without the teleport. It really is a full bunker and I wonder if a bunker core guard or a scrapper wouldn't have done the same? Should we delete mender's amulet?! :lol:

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > It looks like he didn't stream the MAT, but here is some recent footage of Grimjack regardless: > > > > And keep in mind this guy isn't even running the bunker version. Grimjack actually has DPS but still sustains well vs. multiple opponents. I saw him on the usual fire weaver which has one skill giving stab - Lava Skin - and on LR build. > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > Weaver on both winning and runner-up teams, on both EU and NA. But naaah..... it's not viable rite? I am still curious about the build. Mind sharing a link to a video who streamed it? €: Nevermind, found it.

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Tbh the problem with weavers is the problem with ele in general. Every time it starts to deal decent dps it gets gutted for one reason for another. > > > > Burn Weaver? Gutted > > Lightning rod? Gutted > > Fresh Air? Gutted > > Arcane skills? LOL > > > > Being a super bunker is one of the few things weaver has left, and even that got a signficant tone-down when Anet nerfed sword, twist of fate, and removed stability on stances. Why bother building for damage if Anet is going to nerf it into the floor? Just pump those resources into being as tanky as you possibly can. > > > > Part of this issue stems from the fact that Ele **needs** vitality and/or toughness/healing power in order to survive with it's low hp pool. It just doesn't have the damage to opt for a "I kill you or you kill me" kind of playstyle. > > > > If Anet wants to change that, they need to re-evaluate what ele even is. > > > > Is it supposed to have low vitality, but high sustain to compensate? If so, weavers being sustain lords is working as intended. > > Do they want to push it down the glass canon route? Low vitality, low sustain, top tier dps. Then they need to give ele the damage to compensate for how frail it is. And they can start by turning staff into a workable ranged weapon so that they're not forced to get up in your face with their 11k hp. > > Do they want ele to be a jack of all trades? That's fine too, but that requires the dev team to have even the tiniest inkling of what they're doing with it. Celestial amulet was the perfect tool to enable an all-rounder build, but that was deemed unsuitable for pvp. > > > > **tl;dr** Ele is a class without direction. The less dev attention they get the better, because every time the class does get mentioned in the patch notes, it's to butcher what little the class has left. > > > > -Rant of a salty ex-ele main. > > > > I'm not even a fan of ele and I'll say you're right. Removing celestial amulet was wrong. Cele amulet was terrible for ele for quite a while though. They simply nerfed all the wrong spots when they tried to deal with fire weaver. Weaver is definitely in a worse spot than with fire weaver (luckily) and worse than the old water version. It can have solid sustain of course, but the damage has been nerfed significantly and there simply is incredibly low stab uptime/stunbreak capability. I would like to see this problematic build OP describes especially with that stab spam. Is someone trolling power builds with earth? :lol: Apart from ele, I agree with some - power rev being a sleeper meta build, overshadowed by its own renegade variant. Burn DHs being problematic. Some issues with rangers, i.e. immob spam -, disagree with some others - core guard's incredible speed? But it is good to have discussions.

> @"Filip.7463" said: > > @"snoow.1694" said: > > I also think people should get specific one-time rewards for jumping up divisions in ranked or finishing in one division > > There is. Indomitable legend - reached lege once in lifetime. Top 250 title is like p2+, top 100 like high p2+.... > Naah, this was back in the day when we still had this grinding divisions. It is just a remainder from back then. :smile: I would like some more rewards indeed. Maybe titles, maybe skins (maybe even actually nice ones?!), no idea. The warlord armor was nice, but, well... those loot boxes keep stacking in my bank account now I guess. I don't like fancy infusions, so that wouldn't appease me as much... but well, would still be nice to have anything.

> @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > If you get crowd controlled by whatever that one skill means death. It must have its drawbacks since almost nobody uses it, but being on the receiving end of that thing is absolutely unpleasant. Not asking for a nerf, just stating that it hurts a lot. > > This is mostly my point. Throw that into a team fight, or with any setup like a knockdown, and it's gg. I believe it's fine as a source of moderate, pulsing damage. This is clearly too high and should be changed, imo. > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > Here's what's happening from a Tempest's perspective when they use this skill. > > > > [https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I](https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I) > > Lmao, great reference. Naah, in team fights it is not good anymore, because it _only shoots the nearest target_. So it usually spreads its damage across multiple players, illusions, pets, anything. It is a fun bunker breaker though indeed. But there are far far more pressing issues at the moment. I barely encounter anyone else trolling with this in actual games.

> @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > (...) it’s a keen to some sort of socialist view to were anything that happens should be what keeps happening Wait, how is that a socialist view in any way? Are you from the States? :lol:

That norn. :lol:

> @"Cynder.2509" said: > (...) I'm just a failure... (...) ... what? :o

> @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > Actually, if someone continues to attack a herald after seeing him use the Infused Light, the player deserve to stay in pleb tier. > Its extremely easy to see. You can even see if the passive facet is already prepared for a heal. > Blocks (like Aegis) lowers healing you get. Resistance completely remove the healing you would get from conditions. Poison even lowers the incoming healing. > > Wow. Now reread my reasoning and think once more. I do not want to repeat it every time someone says "just stop attacking after his instant cast lulz". And if someone says "just fake burst, stow and let them hit you for 4 more seconds", I will lose all hope.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > (...) > > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > (...) > > > > > > > > Just picking this one up: > > > > > > > > **It is instant.** > > > > > > > > The facet is **not** instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > > > > Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, defiant stance that skill which despite having a few major advantages over infuse light has always been trash tier and never sees serious use, bring it in line with that. People are doing this all the time, a certain skill on one class that people actually use is similar to trash skill on another class that no one uses, and call for it to be nerfed down to the weaker skills level effectively deleting it. For instance all the people that compare various dps utilities to arcane blast/wave/power, those skills are trash currently, using them as a baseline for balancing dps utilities is dumb, balancing infuse light around defiant stance is dumb. > > > > Okay, well, if you compare it to arcane skills, give it a cast time of 3 seconds to make it equally worthless? :lol: > > > > Or buff Defiant Stance, make it instand and see if it is actually trash tier. When arguments don't help, let's go back to random testing. > > Why are yu guys fighting over a skill's instant cast feature like its all that matters when it comes to the Herald/Warrior healing off the skill? > I've seen plenty of Teamfights where Warrior turns on Defiant Stance and GG heals all the incoming damage, but apparently that's not an issue? > > Infuse Light isn't really an issue, it's probably the fact Herald itself has more healing baked into it than Warrior has with just Defiant Stance. > > Honestly, just me but I'm gonna be A okay with Facet Heals removed and replaced with something else to help group support. > I never liked the "Facet chugging for HP" trait at all. > While it heals for little per Facet, it does add up over time in addition to Regens and Siphons. > > Also, as I have mentioned earlier, Infuse Light, fine if people are so blind to just free damage it and cry about it in forums later, they should up the aura intensity. > If yur so blind that yu can see someone with a blue shining aura and still dps it, it's really no one else's fault. You keep saying it is fine without any actual argument. Fact is, that it gives an almost guaranteed solid heal next to the remaining sustain of power rev. As I said: Activate facet and just wait for a burst or some strong conditions, lasting AoEs or anything. Even CC can't stop it then. €: Not against all classes/builds, I admit. Power thief can easily stow for example. How do you counterplay that? Stop attacking (or stop using many skills with lasting effects, unstowable casts etc) when he activated facet? And chip him with AAs while he can still atack you with strong AAs and 60% of his energy generation? At least give it counterplay to be able to burst them when CCd.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > (...) > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > (...) > > > > Just picking this one up: > > > > **It is instant.** > > > > The facet is **not** instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance. > > > > Yes, defiant stance that skill which despite having a few major advantages over infuse light has always been trash tier and never sees serious use, bring it in line with that. People are doing this all the time, a certain skill on one class that people actually use is similar to trash skill on another class that no one uses, and call for it to be nerfed down to the weaker skills level effectively deleting it. For instance all the people that compare various dps utilities to arcane blast/wave/power, those skills are trash currently, using them as a baseline for balancing dps utilities is dumb, balancing infuse light around defiant stance is dumb. Okay, well, if you compare it to arcane skills, give it a cast time of 3 seconds to make it equally worthless? :lol: Or buff Defiant Stance, make it instand and see if it is actually trash tier. When arguments don't help, let's go back to random testing.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > (...) > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > (...) Just picking this one up: **It is instant.** The facet is **not** instant, but IL is. It can be activated during CC, any AoE, when any unstowable animation is running. Actually, if revenant does not get significant healing from this skill, the revenant deserve to stay in pleb tier. Switch the cast time from the facet to IL and the skill is fine. Bringing it actually in line with Defiant Stance.

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > (...) > I'm talking about hurting people's pride. You don't need to be a jerk and insult their family. A simple "lol" or "?" after you kill someone is enough to make an egotistical player put a target on you for the rest of the game. > (...) In physical life, this is called "bad sportsmanship" and even punishable in some, depending on the severity of course. People should be better than that. On the topic, I write short texts like "inc 2", "avoid team fights", ", leave far" and stuff. Quick information when I have the time, but I agree, during fights I often don't have the time and even miss messages from allies. Symbols on the minimap help too, they have sounds and there are variants - for example for "be careful" this exclamation mark - that can really help. Try it when you travel using - as someone already said - autorun.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > (...) Or, you know, you could try to copy what he did. But I guess you still don't want to accept that.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > (...) > 5. **Watch the 2nd video I posted. DHs are definitely ganking/rotating/disengaging like thieves.** > (...) I did. 1. He did not use GS. He had Shield and Focus. 2. He did use Wings before, not for travelling, at 0:27 seconds. 3. He did not have Maw off CD yet (compare usage at 0:09 seconds and 40 seconds CD). 4. He wasted another trap at 0:31 seconds (Blades, due to CD of 20 seconds). 5. **Your pet saw him to the left!!!** 6. I actually didn't see any Test of Faith trap, instead SoJ (which you mention, I admit). So probably only 3 seconds of stealth to get out of your limited sight. Stop spreading misinformation. Then we can talk about actual problems with burn DH. But a few more points first: 7. Use the same spot you are trying to make a point for, not anywhere else. 8. Use the build the counterpart is/was using. 9. Wasting 4 traps and your full burst is not okay for disengaging?! Thieves literally need one single shadowstep for safety and can still return afterwards.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > He still believes the DH was running JI... :lol: Dude, you got hit by Slow first. A trap. Not by JI's burning. > > Dude you can JI at something outside of the range that it would actually hit the target and still JI to close a gap. > > Example: JI is 1200 range, but I can JI at something that is 2000 range from me, and still JI towards it but be 800 range away from it when I land out of the JI. > > This is clearly how the DH in the video was crossing such distance without being identified on the mini map for ganks, and clearly how he got to the far node with only 3 trap duration stealth, by clipping through the mountain at the Necro with JI. > > If I fall asleep in a house with a toddler and we are the only ones in the house, if when I wake up and cookie are gone out of the cookie jar, I don't need a video recording to know that the toddler ate the cookies out of the cookie jar. > > You guys make these hairy arguments man, but you completely ignore obvious rationale and logic. It's hard to take seriously sometimes. Thank you for the absolutely new and very interesting fact. I am sure nobody knew this before.

He still believes the DH was running JI... :lol: Dude, you got hit by Slow first. A trap. Not by JI's burning.

> @"snoow.1694" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > Strongly disagree. > > > > SoJ and Permeating Wrath are fine on any other build. Go try it on FB and see how effective it is (hint: it isn't). > > > > This is 100% a trapper-rune issue. > > > Trapper Runes can‘t put 22 stacks of burn onto you and it is 100% a SoJ issue. It applies burn on each hit as well as proc‘ing Permeating Wrath every 3rd tick to add even more burn. > I mean I wouldn‘t care about Trapper Runes being removed, do that, but your team would still eat the same burn stacks. It wouldn‘t change anything Well, that argument is dangerous. I can trait an ele to do terrific damage, bursting down unaware opponents within seconds, no matter how much healing they have. So why is that no viable build, while it does about as much damage as burn DH? The answer is the rune. Zerker ele can even easily grab some stunbreaks and use perma swiftness. Teleports are actually easily possible. But the disengage capabilities are so much lower due to no stealth access (and, well, low teleport access even with Lightning Flash). This rune alone gives burn DH the defense it needs to survive. I would like the rune to be changed accordingly. Make it give protection in the trap radius for example. Make it a team fighting rune, something defensive, maybe even resistance for a second or two with a small iCD (1 second) to even reduce the burst and simple playstyle of just spamming traps. Yes, the 6th bonus can be strong and team fight oriented to make the build kind of viable. In team fights, the burn stacks have counterplay: AoE cleanses from healbreaker, tempest and stuff. And then buff power guards too. Carefully to not bring back one shots, but they need it. The meta needs it.

> @"vanflyheight.6832" said: > anet specifically says you can not have more than 2 of the same class when you enter, why should 3 of the same class on any team matter even if its ele, its still cheating and should be bannable, only 2 classes per team should be the limit > > It is not like it cannot happen (especially if someone switches classes), but it is heavily punished by the matchmaker. Of course, the rest of the constellation needs to be taken into accoutn as well, so it _can_ happen. But it should not happen all that often. Except for easy to play fotm classes of course. :wink: Read here: > * Scoring/Profession/@max Target maximum number of professions that should exist on a team. > * Scoring/Profession/@unique Score added or removed for each unique profession, under Scoring/Profession/@max, the potential roster would add to the team. > * Scoring/Profession/@common **Score added or removed for each duplicate profession, at or above Scoring/Profession/@max, the potential roster would add to the team.** > * Scoring/Profession/@matching Score added or removed each professions that the other team has more of. This promotes profession balance. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > > > > He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. > > > > I want to see numbers now. :tongue: > > > > @"Math.5123", you provide maximum damage for FGS, screenshot is just fine. > > @"Arheundel.6451", you do the same for SoJ. > > > > Not that it really mattered, but I am still curious. > > As I have stated : a single sword of justice can down a light/medium golem on its own.... > > > Same cannot be said for the dps of FGS, dunno what even is the point , people trying to justify the dmg of an elite to an utility, the dmg coming from a conjure elite should be at least 3x of what is now. If people want to compare then sword of justice with **arcane blast** as dmg utility comparison well....lol the difference would be even more hilarious. > > I have no reason to ask for nerfs on anything these days...as people can see...I play almost everything. Thank you! For the guardian, we do not have full 16s, but a single cast of SoJ: 1. 7 s to down a light golem. 2. 8 s to down a medium golem. The DPS over 16 s would still be needed to determine the exact case. However, I would rather like to see a full DPS "as bursty as possible" rotation from guard (several casts of SoJ on a target golem) and then compare the DPS to FGS. Waiting for the numbers of FGS! 1. For light golem. 2. For medium golem. 3. 16 s interval. 4. if provided by guard: Duration of a "full SoJ burst with all casts". The duration can then be used for FGS burst over this same time.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > > If anything this video not only demonstrates how ridiculous it is for a heavy bruiser to be porting around while stealthed like a thief, but also how the burn condi is wildly strong right now. > > > > > > > > > So uh... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thief is a **heavy bruiser** too? Because last I checked, the guardian and the thief has the same base hp. What makes the guardian so *heavy* outside of its fashion style? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't make petty arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Guardians is a team fighter and can stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s without needing to leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Thieves get killed easily and quickly when trying to stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What part of a Trapper-DH's kit allows it to stay in a 4v4 any better than a thief? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about a build that has 0 defensive utilities, and which takes 0 sustain traits. No RF, no healing meditations, no healing symbols, no heal on aegis, no shouts, no stunbreak, no stab. There's the F3 skill on 50s cooldown........ but if one 3s block on 50s CD is enough to make a build a "heavy bruiser" then so is your GS soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you seriously just try to make an argument that the Guardian class is no better at staying in a 4v4 on a node than the Thief class? > > > > > > > > > > > > Come on man. I know you want to find ways to argue with me, but have some self respect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, not the class as a whole, we're talking about a specific build. Obviously other guardian builds are much more durable. > > > > > > > > > > The specific build of burn trapper-DH, is not better at staying in a 4v4 on node than thief. > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > Watch as much of this as you'd like. We're running an AT and 3 of our players are on Guardian, 2 of them are DHs. No one is running support, it's all DPS. In the video it is quite clear that DHs are currently the lords of the team fight. At one point in Capricorn they vie over the bell for an elongated amount of time vs. some of the better players in NA in a big 4v4. The DHs in the video, despite not having a support, are just as sustainy as any team fighter. **And might I point out that a Thief would not be able to hang in the middle of that 4v4 holding the bell without instantly exploding to all of the AoE. We both know that's true.** Enough with unreasonable argument. > > > > > > > > The point being is that this argument you have that "Trap DH is as squishy as a Thief" is not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? No support? What was the staff+mace/shield guard running then? And what was giving AoE stability? I also see a SpB with sword/warhorn and warbanner? Looks like it takes 2x support to keep them up. Did you even take the time to look at this vid before posting it? I'm sure the other people giving you thumbs-up didn't. But I did. You're lying. > > > > > > And also, yes, they stay alive by using the trapper rune to disengage when pressured. Think about how the exact same build minus trapper rune would fare? > > > > > > To be honest, whether or not thief is 5% more or less tanky is a fairly pointless debate. My point remains that a trapper DH is not a super-sustainy heavy bruiser. You can build other DH builds like that, but not the trapper burn build. > > > > > > Take a look at the final match, where basically as soon as the revs/engis push into mid, your DHs have to stealth and kite back, because there's no way they can go toe-to-toe in that environment. > > > > > > "It can stay alive in TF even without support" -> proceeds to link video showing TWO supports. > > > > It's just like in the original post. Him saying the guard was too fast and using teleports, while he actually walked there in 12 seconds. Makes one think of all his other posts... > > You keep bringing up this 12s thing which has nothing to do with anything really. > > I noticed the Guardian was gone after 7s. At that point, it wouldn't matter if I immediately chased around to the left, he was already at the far node, and that was the point made, that the DH could stealth and disengage to that far node in 7s. It doesn't matter if I had followed him immediately right behind him or had afked for 30s. The point is that the DH can stealth from that position and make it to his close in 7s due to the rune of the trapper. > > And in case you want to argue futher, the movement of the pet AI proves that what I said here is true. When the DH stealths, the pet begins to follow him to the left, because pets will follow stealthed opponents like that. But then the pet stops his pathing and comes back to me about 4s after the DH was moving to the left. The only way this could have happened is if he had used JI through the mountain and left the range of the pet pathing. **So yeah, that DH got to the far node in 7s my dude. I'll say it again, that's DP Thief like mobility when SB5 was only 5 init.** > > Bring up all the embellished misinformation and misevaluation of what happened in the video all you want, but it doesn't change what actually happened in the video. And it certainly doesn't change my statement that DHs shouldn't be cross classed thief/mesmers. I can't believe how delusional you are. It is your video. Is your own video "fake news"? The guard stealthes at 0:40 s. Your pet moves to the left (where the guard obviously went) at 0:43 s. (Stealth ends.) You are confused and ask "where did this guy go?" and random block at 0:49 s. The guard pops up on the minimap on his close at 0.52 s. Everybody can confirm this by themselves and see what actually happened in the video.

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. I want to see numbers now. :tongue: @"Math.5123", you provide maximum damage for FGS, screenshot is just fine. @"Arheundel.6451", you do the same for SoJ. Not that it really mattered, but I am still curious.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > If anything this video not only demonstrates how ridiculous it is for a heavy bruiser to be porting around while stealthed like a thief, but also how the burn condi is wildly strong right now. > > > > > > > So uh... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thief is a **heavy bruiser** too? Because last I checked, the guardian and the thief has the same base hp. What makes the guardian so *heavy* outside of its fashion style? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't make petty arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Guardians is a team fighter and can stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s without needing to leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Thieves get killed easily and quickly when trying to stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What part of a Trapper-DH's kit allows it to stay in a 4v4 any better than a thief? > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about a build that has 0 defensive utilities, and which takes 0 sustain traits. No RF, no healing meditations, no healing symbols, no heal on aegis, no shouts, no stunbreak, no stab. There's the F3 skill on 50s cooldown........ but if one 3s block on 50s CD is enough to make a build a "heavy bruiser" then so is your GS soulbeast. > > > > > > > > Did you seriously just try to make an argument that the Guardian class is no better at staying in a 4v4 on a node than the Thief class? > > > > > > > > Come on man. I know you want to find ways to argue with me, but have some self respect. > > > > > > > > > > No, not the class as a whole, we're talking about a specific build. Obviously other guardian builds are much more durable. > > > > > > The specific build of burn trapper-DH, is not better at staying in a 4v4 on node than thief. > > > > No > > > > Watch as much of this as you'd like. We're running an AT and 3 of our players are on Guardian, 2 of them are DHs. No one is running support, it's all DPS. In the video it is quite clear that DHs are currently the lords of the team fight. At one point in Capricorn they vie over the bell for an elongated amount of time vs. some of the better players in NA in a big 4v4. The DHs in the video, despite not having a support, are just as sustainy as any team fighter. **And might I point out that a Thief would not be able to hang in the middle of that 4v4 holding the bell without instantly exploding to all of the AoE. We both know that's true.** Enough with unreasonable argument. > > > > The point being is that this argument you have that "Trap DH is as squishy as a Thief" is not true. > > > > > > Really? No support? What was the staff+mace/shield guard running then? And what was giving AoE stability? I also see a SpB with sword/warhorn and warbanner? Looks like it takes 2x support to keep them up. Did you even take the time to look at this vid before posting it? I'm sure the other people giving you thumbs-up didn't. But I did. You're lying. > > And also, yes, they stay alive by using the trapper rune to disengage when pressured. Think about how the exact same build minus trapper rune would fare? > > To be honest, whether or not thief is 5% more or less tanky is a fairly pointless debate. My point remains that a trapper DH is not a super-sustainy heavy bruiser. You can build other DH builds like that, but not the trapper burn build. > > Take a look at the final match, where basically as soon as the revs/engis push into mid, your DHs have to stealth and kite back, because there's no way they can go toe-to-toe in that environment. > > "It can stay alive in TF even without support" -> proceeds to link video showing TWO supports. It's just like in the original post. Him saying the guard was too fast and using teleports, while he actually walked there in 12 seconds. Makes one think of all his other posts...

Try this. I have been trolling with it, defense basically only works through some prot and stab and lots of blinds through scepter and arcane skills in air. Change Ether Renewal for Arcane Brilliance against power comps for even more blinds. But nothing, absolutely no build survives this for long. Most full bunkers explode with Lightning Orb, Overload Air and some instant skills when they are unaware. If they are, it takes a little longer. Works until some thief or power rev is clever enough to kill you. Single ones can be kited and killed, but as soon as there is 2 good players... plat1 works, then you hit a hard ceiling. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEsEWWAzjpwQYoYZdp22A-zZILiMLAVGA Only PVP of course.