Megametzler.5729

> @"Kachros.4751" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > Why would holo and weaver get nerfs? > > Where did u get info about damage nerf? > > (...) Weaver deserves nerf since its a simple build with insane value that doesnt lose any 1v1 right now. (...) **Assuming** all the other major outliers are severly nerfed: I kind of agree. I still want changes of the fire traitline into not giving this much condi cleanse, or at least not AoE-wide (looking at you, Smothering Auras). It forces eles into focus which in turn leads to the huge projectile denial potential and fire aura spam. Make dagger offhand great again! However, I do not think it is high on the priority list and would need some more tweaking of other traitlines. I doubt it will happen. Simple adjustments would be reduction in some barrier values and some projectile denial duration. Would hurt and change nothing about the lack of options on ele, but adjust the strengths. If revenant does not get major nerfs, druid stays the way it is and all these: No need to change weaver at all.

> @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > > > > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > > > > > > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > > > > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > > > > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) > > > > Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. > > > > No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. > > I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and **nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level**. > (...) What do you mean here? There is plenty of ranger players in Top100. It suffers in coordinated team games - not talking about druid -, but it needs no buffs. Adjustments, maybe.

> @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. > > Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > No they aren't. > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > Ranger GS block has the exact same cooldown as the equivalent skills of Warrior Shield Block and Engineer Shield Block, and as a measure of seconds-blocked-per-seconds-CD also has the same value as Rev Staff block. Also has a lower CD than guardian focus block, lower CD than chrono shield block, and when traited has better block uptime than Scrapper hammer. > > "nerfed to uselness" - when infact its as good as, or better, than everyone else's block skills. Your bias is showing. > > Also, I see plenty of rangers in plat-2. Honestly, if Renegade gets the nerfs it deserves in the next patch (whenever that is....), I can totally see Ranger being meta on sides again. It's only real competition atm is weaver. > > Ranger's only issue in PvP right now is the exact same issue it has had since the launch of the game, which is that its abilities don't scale up when the size of the fights scales up. I.e. its value drops way off when things escalate to 4+ vs 4+. > I might not yet have a significant statistic here, but today the average number of rangers was 3 per game in Plat2. They are definitely doing strong. Also agree on the last point. That does not have to be a bad thing when designing side noders, but it becomes problematic when the whole class basically relies on these mechanics. Maybe EoD can solve this issue somehow by making the pet like a moving scourge shade, support - or damaging - AoEs spawn around both ranger and pet? Might be something to explore, but not some issue with ranger to be solved now. Now I would mostly want the pets adjusted - don't heal them during swaps? Or just make sespecially smokescale and jacaranda less obnoxious? Would leave that to ranger mains - and some knockback spam from druid changed to knockdowns or something like that.

> @"Hex.2579" said: >(...) > In rank, it depends. There's an internal timer. **It depends on how long you DCed, you can either re-enter the same match, or you get locked out completely.** > (...) Do you have a source for this? I have had people join in the last two minutes of a game, I have myself been able to relog after some serious DC issues... and sometimes I couldn't rejoin after a drop to the char selection screen. There is an internal timer for the "other players don't loose rating"-thing. it is 90 seconds. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Disconnect-Timer-and-Rating-Loss

> @"Filip.7463" said: > > @"Hex.2579" said: > > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > Strong disagree with u. Learn to play more classes so u can also swap. > > Strong assumption there, bud. I can play all in PvP. But I was in the middle of an AT match, and I don't wanna swap because I have to queue rank right after that for my daily before bed. > > Sure you don't want to be winning ATs for 84% of the match, to have enemies swap mid-match to roll over 2 of your teammates. And we're just memeing so neither of us wanting to switch to re-counter them. That's just tryharding. > > > > > (...) > + if they block swap class in at match, it means if u get dced before match starts, u cant enter it back (like in ranked) (...) You can rejoin in ranked. There are sometimes bugs, but when you log in with the same char, it usually works fine.

> @"Hex.2579" said: > (...) > You can swap in the middle of matches in ATs, not for normal matches. > (...) Totally agree with you, this should be changed. Doesn't seem to be any priority though. As for normal matches, I am torn. I want people to be able to adjust their compositions, but it sucks when you play mesmer and someone *always* swaps to thief. Well, it is not as bad anymore after the ecto nerfs, but it still serves as a good example. But I think they should keep allowing it *pre-match* and just adjust the hard counters to soft counters. Otherwise actual skill wouldn't count as much anymore because winning mainly depended on mind games and quick swapping...

I want teamQ and soloQ seperated. Don't know why Anet doesn't at least try for a season or even a mini season. I agree with you, it might draw people into PVP. How many? We'd see.

It is not luck. It is not very precise (+- like 50 rating points, depending on daily shape and all. Maybe some more when wintrading, duoing etc. is involved ), but GLICKO is fine. How else do you explain why it is always the same people in high ranks? Ranked gives me way more even matches than unranked. That is part of the matchmaking algorithm, which allows higher rating deviations between players in unranked. Add in the fact of teamQ, people playing troll builds and learning new ones and you have actually random resulty. I am experiencing way **way** more blow outs in unranked than in ranked. Usually people are just not as good as they think or their build is terrible. Play for fun, not for rating, and learn from mistakes and losses. You will climb ranks with time. (And when tryharding, play anything with revenant. Because, you know, it is a class favoured by good players...) A suggestion: Would it help if the skill rating only showed at the end of the season? Seeing these results seems to lead to a lot of toxicity and frustration, even though the values are - from a GLICKO-point of view - perfectly fine.

I agree you shouldn't take that too hard. The balance, duos, maybe even bots and hackers... then the terribly low population... just play fun builds for exactly that reason: Just have fun in single engagements and enjoy the pace. Maybe it was during off hours? I also had some ridiculous matchups then, I played on sunday rather early and actually had a bot in Plat2. He was horrible and clearly ranked a huge lot lower. Try playing in peak hours, teams are a lot more balanced then.

> @"Khalisto.5780" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Khalisto.5780" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > Seems as if GW2 punishes you more for losing even when your volatility has settled. But purposely losing and then trying harding to gain a higher volatility, this more gains seems counterintuitive in GW2. > > > > > > > > Regardless I’d love to see this put to the test in GW2 to see what results we get. > > > > > > As I said in my post we had a "guy" top 100 with 2.5k games and less than 50% winrate, when requirement to achieve top 100 is normally around 60%, so OPs conclusions make sense > > That tells us absolutely nothing. You need to have a controlled test of games played, win streaks, loss streaks and what rating you start and what your positive and negative gains are per match. > > > > It does tell you matchmaking is some how is trying to push you to 50% winrate, otherwise it would be stuck forever in that win 13 loses 14 and it'd be somewhere in silver not high plat 1 > > More so if you think ppl around p2 have that situation you have to win 3 games to make up for 1 loss > > And somehow bot ignored that, which makes me think even in plat it was getting like 17 on wins and losing 9-10 That is on the matchmaker though. GLICKO does not care at all about your winrate. :wink:

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but the rating deviation i GLICKO-2 cannot increase I believe. Didn't study this too deeply though. I wish they had numbered their formulas, but check the RD' calculation here on page 3: http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdf RD' - the "new" rating deviation after a game/some games - is always lower than RD - the rating deviation before a game/some games.

It is... alright, but very stale. They took a solid direction a year ago - nerfing lots of things, damage and sustain, down to reasonable levels -, but they utterly failed in taking the job seriously. The adjustments are coming waaaay to slow and the meta basically doesn't change for 6 months in a row. It is still fun, if that's all you are looking for. More builds have become viable, but there are still serious outliers. But the playstyle is still good, fast and fun. Just don't tryhard. :wink: The matchmaker suffers from low population in both regions, but I feel like NA has it worse. It might lead to more unbalanced matches, more bots in games, maybe more wintrading... FOTM (or month**s**) is revenant. Usually renegade, but power herald or condi bunkers are strong as well. Burn DH if you want to drop into even lower skill requirements, but less potential overall.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > @"snoow.1694" said: > > > This is why posting in the PvP forum should be allowed only for Plat players and above. What a nonsense thread > > > > Give that guy a medal. I completely agree. > > > > U can leave match immediately after end, so you dont see winners laughing at you. > > > > Let the winners of mat have some fun with plebs down there. > > Soon, with this attitude, they will be playing with themselves......( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Yeah, people defend toxicity by saying "just look away". Historically, that was always a good way to deal with morally bad behaviour!

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > (...) > Exactly. I've tried to elaborate on this a bit further in my second comment (just a minute posted before your one :D ) True, you must've been writing in parallel. :lol: And you're right of course, but maybe you could've elaborated this a little... shorter? This is the internet after all. People - including me, to my shame - don't have the patience to read through long texts... :lol:

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > (...) > Who started this going far at start tactic? The right players on the right builds. :wink: @OP: It is not that easy. 1-3-1 is a quite popular opening, possibly even 1-2-2 with 2 taking far. It depends on your composition and the enemy's. Going far during the game can additionally depend on the overall map situation, respawns and builds. Don't "never go far" just as don't "always fight on point". Learn when to go far and when to draw enemies somewhere else. Learn when to stall on point and when to disengage. And, most importantly, learn which composition works how and act accordingly.

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> @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > This already exists. > > > > > > It's this one right here we are posting in now. > > > > > > A balance subforum would also just be filled with the junk we have now here. Nerf this, remove that, buff this, do what I want or your game will fail etc. > > > > > > Wouldn't really serve a purpose inho. > > > > We have a discord with 5 something devs in it along with 40 something players. > > From a comment cal made there is still a bunch of bias going on so I just expect it to be a less salty version of the forums. But a version of the forums none the less. It's actually much more salty and cringey. :tongue: I don't like this suggestion, as @"Falan.1839" mentioned, there are a lot of terrible suggestions also from plat+ players and good insights and necessary input from lower ranked players. It simply needs a little more attention and someone who is working 20% of his time on PVP.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"Fearless.3569" said: > > You didn't cry when the nerfs came for my class. Now I'm no longer here to cry when the nerfs came to your class. Poetic Justice at it finest! > > > > Damage Dealer Tempest buffs ANet, or I don't return! > > Tempest is a support spec. But haven't you heard warhorn is the ultimate one-hit weapon?!?!?!11

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Why do you always compare thief to rev? You really make thief look even more one-dimensional than it already is. > > He's right though. > The comparison is adequate. Rev serves the same purpose as thief except it's a couple armor tiers higher and has other roles it can fill. > > Thief for the length of this game has been one-dimensional, because people reacted poorly to every venture that allowed thief to perform anything that even slightly deviated from +1, because they could run away. Portraying it as having the potential to be anything other than +1, like it would be accepted in any other role, would be being much too optimistic IMO. > > He's calling it like it is. It has one role, it will have one role, and other classes do that role better. > > > Perma evade is unfun. You need openings and counterplay. The same reason significantly increased weaver's evade spam and rightfully so. > > Agreed. What would be fun for you, coming from a thief? > > >Give it a new role - like s/d used to have. > > Keep in mind people hated S/D because good thieves could shred them with it. That is why I am saying: Give thief new roles. Make the heal poison meta!!!

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > I think we should first adjust revenant and then give thief maybe some more team fight capabilities instead of obnoxious stealth mobility for decapping... because I sure don't want that and I don't think that requires much skill at all. > > > > > > There used to be thief builds that did exactly that - people hated it. > > > (...) > > > > Which ones? Staff builds? If you couple that with the (former) mobility, then yes, that might become quite problematic. (Not talking about the evade nonsense.) > > Why evade nonsense? That build could hold points. I mean if thief is not allowed to have mobility and stealth then all they have is evades. I mean what is rev? A bruiser thief with no stealth. You guys wanted it. Enjoy. Why do you always compare thief to rev? You really make thief look even more one-dimensional than it already is. Give it a new role - like s/d used to have. Perma evade is unfun. You need openings and counterplay. The same reason significantly increased weaver's evade spam and rightfully so.

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > I think we should first adjust revenant and then give thief maybe some more team fight capabilities instead of obnoxious stealth mobility for decapping... because I sure don't want that and I don't think that requires much skill at all. > > There used to be thief builds that did exactly that - people hated it. > (...) Which ones? Staff builds? If you couple that with the (former) mobility, then yes, that might become quite problematic. (Not talking about the evade nonsense.)

> @"bethekey.8314" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Naah, in team fights it is not good anymore, because it _only shoots the nearest target_. So it usually spreads its damage across multiple players, illusions, pets, anything. > > > > It is a fun bunker breaker though indeed. But there are far far more pressing issues at the moment. I barely encounter anyone else trolling with this in actual games. > > You heard it here first, folks. 15k+ damage into a team fight isn't good. > > Are elementalists this spoiled? > I lol'd. Yeah, eles are spoiled by this awesome warhorn everybody uses and has always dominated ranked. No, 15k every 25 seconds shot by a slow moving orb, blockable, dodgeable over 3-4 seconds is not great. Especially not because you need a zerker yolo build for that, which gets farmed by too many other classes. Yes, I meme with this sometimes. Yes, it is a noob filter and strong in certain compositions. But it auto loses in too many situations. Is this the result of some unranked nightmare? Can we change this skill into Sevenshot please? Zerker tempest would greatly benefit from that change and everybody would be happy.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds? > > Figure of speech, in it's entire existence one of these can still deal up to 15k~ damage fairly often, even seen 18k. Being 4 seconds and all the other added factors. It's still not far off the 2 seconds mark on average. > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > > > > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > > > > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > > > > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > > > > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > > > > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > > > > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. > > > > I am not sure whether Symbol of Punishment or Sevenshot are even halfway comparable to Lightning Orb... > > > > Nobody uses warhorn in PVP for a reason. I would still be in for a change: Make it similar to Sevenshot, a lightning orb over the top of the caster shooting lightning at the enemy. Because the energy situation is different for ele, make it a 10 second CD, same damage - vulnerability instead of torment application. That would help tremendously - the rest of warhorn is still slow garbage though, but they could rework it once they're on it... > > IMO Ele general needs it's utility cooldowns re-considered so reaching out for damage isn't asking to be stupidly glassy in any situations. Tired of only seeing conditions and weaver being the only viable options because the utilities of this elite are in practice better. > > They should take notes from how often quite literally all classes but most notably Ranger get to have so many stunbreaks on low CD but because Ele gets 4 weapon skill bar it can't even have a decent amount of utility? Yeah, it's no wonder. I used to main ele fyi and I feel you on the level of it, I tried to enjoy my old core recently and it's quite a mess to try and be anything decent outside weaver in close combat. > > Also wouldn't in a lasting fight combining pre Lighting Orb into an Arcane Immobilize give a deadly amount of damage like shown? By that I mean, can't sustain forever as eventually there's bound to be someone that can't clear or dodge so a well placed setup could result as something like it. It does have 25 seconds CD though and for these values, you need a somewhat offensive amulet. As I said, I'd be in for a change into a more DPS oriented skill - less burst, but landing more consistently. Agree about the rest. Ele remains in a weird spot for quite some time. But I don't think they should start their rework with warhorn - which, I have no idea, might be kind of good as it is in PVE and most likely never be really useful in PVP due to its long cast times and slow AoEs.

I think we should first adjust revenant and then give thief maybe some more team fight capabilities instead of obnoxious stealth mobility for decapping... because I sure don't want that and I don't think that requires much skill at all.