The worst balance since early Heart of thorns in my opinion.

[Ramjam.4507]

And it's making me wanna take a break from the game, I wanna enjoy and keep playing but it's just not fun.

 

The meta has become too tanky and stale, Condi builds are the go to meta, and a few condi builds are burstier then power builds were prior, without having to sacrifice toughness/vitality to reach such damage.

 

Reviving has become a bigger problem then it's been in a long time if ever, tbh they should just make any damage taken stop the revive, currently there are too many ways to secure a revive without a worry, and it's super fast, especially compared to power damage of current build, some condi damage can handle is somewhat but most struggle too, basically what I'm saying, lets say you have a downed enemy, and you have 2 power builds trying to finnish the 1 downed, then you have a single half support build or few other special builds reviving with a few defensives up, you can't CC the helper, if you both just damage the downed played the healing is greater compared to the two even, if one attack and one try to stomp you still won't get it in time or an incomming CC might stop your stomp, and this is already after a hard fought fight to down a single person.

 

Roaming has become super boring on all my characters, been changing my builds to match the new balance and to counter the meta to a degree but it's just not working out, I'm no pvp / roaming god or anything, slightly above average I guess, in other MMO's like wow I'v been multi season gladiator so not bad in general, and played this game since release, usually I'v won 70-80% of roaming fights with all of my characters in general, but since this patch it feels like I'm just running around feeding the enemy rather then taking valuable points and reporting on enemy blobs, I'm not realy interesting in playing condition builds it's as far from what I like as possible, but thats whats beeing forced down my throat if I wanna roam it feels like, I usually try to make my own builds rather then rely on Meta builds, more fun that way, but right now I feel there are fewer viable builds then ever before, partially thanx to the tankier meta making fight more prolonged and small advantages thanx to that more noticble over time.

 

so yeah.. I'm thinking of taking a break or quitting, and yeah I guess some of you will just post "bye" or "WvW is for Blobbing", and I do participate in guild squad play too, when it's going, but thats a limited time a few times a week at most, but roaming or just running across to map to get to your squad and all other situations where you end up away from the blob is still important too, but yeah, just wanted to type what I felt about this patch, I like that conditions feel more viable now, but not that it's topped power completly, except a select few power builds.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Sorry man but roaming has never been good with condi metas, Dire/TB are busted stat combos that exist solely to make WvW worse (they have no value in PvE and were deemed OP for sPvP when released, so it's literally WvW) and mounts heavily damage the scene since it removes the purpose of splitting away to do other stuff when the zerg will be across the map to respond in under a minute with no need for coordinating swiftness etc.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Ramjam.4507" said:

> And it's making me wanna take a break from the game, I wanna enjoy and keep playing but it's just not fun.

>

> The meta has become too tanky and stale, Condi builds are the go to meta, and a few condi builds are burstier then power builds were prior, without having to sacrifice toughness/vitality to reach such damage.

>

> Reviving has become a bigger problem then it's been in a long time if ever, tbh they should just make any damage taken stop the revive, currently there are too many ways to secure a revive without a worry, and it's super fast, especially compared to power damage of current build, some condi damage can handle is somewhat but most struggle too, basically what I'm saying, lets say you have a downed enemy, and you have 2 power builds trying to finnish the 1 downed, then you have a single half support build or few other special builds reviving with a few defensives up, you can't CC the helper, if you both just damage the downed played the healing is greater compared to the two even, if one attack and one try to stomp you still won't get it in time or an incomming CC might stop your stomp, and this is already after a hard fought fight to down a single person.

>

> Roaming has become super boring on all my characters, been changing my builds to match the new balance and to counter the meta to a degree but it's just not working out, I'm no pvp / roaming god or anything, slightly above average I guess, in other MMO's like wow I'v been multi season gladiator so not bad in general, and played this game since release, usually I'v won 70-80% of roaming fights with all of my characters in general, but since this patch it feels like I'm just running around feeding the enemy rather then taking valuable points and reporting on enemy blobs, I'm not realy interesting in playing condition builds it's as far from what I like as possible, but thats whats beeing forced down my throat if I wanna roam it feels like, I usually try to make my own builds rather then rely on Meta builds, more fun that way, but right now I feel there are fewer viable builds then ever before, partially thanx to the tankier meta making fight more prolonged and small advantages thanx to that more noticble over time.

>

> so yeah.. I'm thinking of taking a break or quitting, and yeah I guess some of you will just post "bye" or "WvW is for Blobbing", and I do participate in guild squad play too, when it's going, but thats a limited time a few times a week at most, but roaming or just running across to map to get to your squad and all other situations where you end up away from the blob is still important too, but yeah, just wanted to type what I felt about this patch, I like that conditions feel more viable now, but not that it's topped power completly, except a select few power builds.

 

good luck with your break then. in comparison to the ez oneshot meta, the current meta is paradise. you have skill rotations that need actually skill to kill an enemy by outplaying him instead of pressing max 2 buttons to one shot someone. and i am seeing way more different builds and classes in roaming then before. but its normal i guess, that every situation has some people that like it, and some that dislike.

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Ramjam.4507" said:

> > And it's making me wanna take a break from the game, I wanna enjoy and keep playing but it's just not fun.

> >

> > The meta has become too tanky and stale, Condi builds are the go to meta, and a few condi builds are burstier then power builds were prior, without having to sacrifice toughness/vitality to reach such damage.

> >

> > Reviving has become a bigger problem then it's been in a long time if ever, tbh they should just make any damage taken stop the revive, currently there are too many ways to secure a revive without a worry, and it's super fast, especially compared to power damage of current build, some condi damage can handle is somewhat but most struggle too, basically what I'm saying, lets say you have a downed enemy, and you have 2 power builds trying to finnish the 1 downed, then you have a single half support build or few other special builds reviving with a few defensives up, you can't CC the helper, if you both just damage the downed played the healing is greater compared to the two even, if one attack and one try to stomp you still won't get it in time or an incomming CC might stop your stomp, and this is already after a hard fought fight to down a single person.

> >

> > Roaming has become super boring on all my characters, been changing my builds to match the new balance and to counter the meta to a degree but it's just not working out, I'm no pvp / roaming god or anything, slightly above average I guess, in other MMO's like wow I'v been multi season gladiator so not bad in general, and played this game since release, usually I'v won 70-80% of roaming fights with all of my characters in general, but since this patch it feels like I'm just running around feeding the enemy rather then taking valuable points and reporting on enemy blobs, I'm not realy interesting in playing condition builds it's as far from what I like as possible, but thats whats beeing forced down my throat if I wanna roam it feels like, I usually try to make my own builds rather then rely on Meta builds, more fun that way, but right now I feel there are fewer viable builds then ever before, partially thanx to the tankier meta making fight more prolonged and small advantages thanx to that more noticble over time.

> >

> > so yeah.. I'm thinking of taking a break or quitting, and yeah I guess some of you will just post "bye" or "WvW is for Blobbing", and I do participate in guild squad play too, when it's going, but thats a limited time a few times a week at most, but roaming or just running across to map to get to your squad and all other situations where you end up away from the blob is still important too, but yeah, just wanted to type what I felt about this patch, I like that conditions feel more viable now, but not that it's topped power completly, except a select few power builds.

>

> good luck with your break then. in comparison to the ez oneshot meta, the current meta is paradise. you have skill rotations that need actually skill to kill an enemy by outplaying him instead of pressing max 2 buttons to one shot someone. and i am seeing way more different builds and classes in roaming then before. but its normal i guess, that every situation has some people that like it, and some that dislike.

>

>

 

+1 shot was part of the problem, everything else remained the same. By the way, speaking of +1 shot....it still exists and very soon will return at full force as their root cause continually remain unscathed

 


 

 

 

 

-have a good day-

[Stand The Wall.6987]

please use periods.

[Ramjam.4507]

> good luck with your break then. in comparison to the ez oneshot meta, the current meta is paradise. you have skill rotations that need actually skill to kill an enemy by outplaying him instead of pressing max 2 buttons to one shot someone. and i am seeing way more different builds and classes in roaming then before. but its normal i guess, that every situation has some people that like it, and some that dislike.

>

>

 

I didn't like how bursty it was prior to this meta either, but now it's swing in the opposit direction completly, become super tanky where no one dies unless they go to deep, if I don't want to die on any of my builds I will not (except against perhaps 3 condi builds that are more bursty now then anything was prior to patch), unless zerged from around a corner or something, fights take 5 minutes very often, way to long tbh. prior to patch, especially even further back before they nerfed a few builds burst from many power builds were insane, and left little room for interesting fights, but it's gone from intense fights that was a bit too bursty to 5 minute fights, part of the problem is condition builds only really have to focus on 1 damaging stat, there's expertise but many builds don't even need that, they really need to make condition damage use 3 offensive stats.

 

Conditions already has an ace with bypassing toughness, that in it self is good for the meta too, making someone going too tanky less viable, but that also means conditions can't go as bursty as power builds in general are suppose too (not as bursty like before) because there is less ways to counter such a burst, there are condition removals, but thats hardly a counter to condi burst, the other problem beeing condition builds like mentioned above can go full defense while still staying offensive, and on top of that Arena Net havn't touched the most problematic condi builds either for WVW as the mini balance patches only affected PVP for some reason.

 

Power was too bursty before, but they didn't only turn down the burst potential but the power damage in general, and that I don't understand, they should have just nerfed the potential to stack offensive buffs together with their strongest damage ability, while perhaps buffing more standard attacks keeping the damage over time on par.

 

[Junkpile.7439]

People could have use same lame bunker gear before patch and there wouldn't have been any one shot meta. Now you run full damage spec and enemy lose 20% hp when you try to one hit him. Then he puke some condis and you die. :#

[DemonSeed.3528]

Honestly it's just better for you to take a break for the moment and wait a few patches down - enjoy some other games in the meantime, there's no harm in finding joy in other games and revisit later so things become fresh and the feelings of frustration wane. There's many things that do trouble me in this game, but out of all that frustration I still love it, warts and all.

 

 

Long live Guild Warts 2.

[avey.4201]

Condi bunker was stronger than power glass cannons before the patch, the patch only buffed condi bunker.

Berserk focusing hard to line up combo's couldn't kill a condi bunker mashing buttons pre patch, we had to use marauder to have enough vitality to survive the passive crap while baiting evades etc before we could burst.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Early HoT was when Rev could 1shot full soldier gear guards with CoR.

 

Early HoT was when tempest could be 100% dmg and condi dmg immun at the same time.

Other classes could archiv like 90% dmg immunity.

 

When chill from reaper hits for 1500 per second.

 

When a group of boon share mesmers could give an 80 man zerg all boons basicaly perma and 25 stacks.

 

When resistance was a boon everyone had 24/7 thanks to chrono and anet nerfed it into the ground which cause a condi meta that killed many guilds.

 

I remember the good old stacking of condi shout reaper , when you could get 50 bleed stacks for just getting in the 800 range of a 20 man guild.

 

Stealth abuse, were you could bomb another guild and they did see you 3 seconds later.

 

HoT was a shitshow of balance and the worst WvW we ever had.

[Ramjam.4507]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Early HoT was when Rev could 1shot full soldier gear guards with CoR.

>

> Early HoT was when tempest could be 100% dmg and condi dmg immun at the same time.

> Other classes could archiv like 90% dmg immunity.

>

> When chill from reaper hits for 1500 per second.

>

> When a group of boon share mesmers could give an 80 man zerg all boons basicaly perma and 25 stacks.

>

> When resistance was a boon everyone had 24/7 thanks to chrono and anet nerfed it into the ground which cause a condi meta that killed many guilds.

>

> I remember the good old stacking of condi shout reaper , when you could get 50 bleed stacks for just getting in the 800 range of a 20 man guild.

>

> Stealth abuse, were you could bomb another guild and they did see you 3 seconds later.

>

> HoT was a kitten of balance and the worst WvW we ever had.

 

Yeah it really was bullshit, and I'm not saying this is as bad, but the worst since then.

 

I feel pretty much like avey.4201 said

>@"avey.4201" said:

>Condi bunker was stronger than power glass cannons before the patch, the patch only buffed condi bunker.

>Berserk focusing hard to line up combo's couldn't kill a condi bunker mashing buttons pre patch, we had to use marauder to have enough vitality to survive the >passive kitten while baiting evades etc before we could burst.

 

Condi was already strong prior to patch imo, but wasn't the popular meta, balance prior to patch wasn't good eitehr but I prefered it to this tbh, even while I got blasted to bits in less then a second from a mesmer haha, it was still better then now.. :(

[Ultramex.1506]

Quite impressive for this balance to be the worst considering every balance patches in the past have been deemed "The Worst"

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think no matter which direction there will be a number of which it feels the worst for, but it will be bad if it ends up being the majority who feel that way. I have no idea if we are at that stage or have been, I just try to make do. I just don't want them to remove the fun factor that people enjoy from their classes/builds/skills. Like some of the skills didn't need changes at all, just tweaks to numbers but they went ahead and changed them anyway making it less fun. Well, the only way is forward, and hopefully not to repeat old mistakes, seeing as they still need to work their way up on this balance thing, and then they still have an expac in the distant future.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Early HoT was when Rev could 1shot full soldier gear guards with CoR.

>

> Early HoT was when tempest could be 100% dmg and condi dmg immun at the same time.

> Other classes could archiv like 90% dmg immunity.

>

> When chill from reaper hits for 1500 per second.

>

> When a group of boon share mesmers could give an 80 man zerg all boons basicaly perma and 25 stacks.

>

> When resistance was a boon everyone had 24/7 thanks to chrono and anet nerfed it into the ground which cause a condi meta that killed many guilds.

>

> I remember the good old stacking of condi shout reaper , when you could get 50 bleed stacks for just getting in the 800 range of a 20 man guild.

>

> Stealth abuse, were you could bomb another guild and they did see you 3 seconds later.

>

> HoT was a kitten of balance and the worst WvW we ever had.

I also miss my gyro scrapper with 80% uptime on AoE stealth :(

[Ramjam.4507]

> @"Ultramex.1506" said:

> Quite impressive for this balance to be the worst considering every balance patches in the past have been deemed "The Worst"

 

well I guess it depends from who's point of view, and what content you aimed for, more before since the balance was pretty close between it all, now it's started to differenciate betweent he game modes more, but also what you try to do within a game mode, you aiming for Blob fights either Pick up groups or organised guild raids? are you trying to roam? and all inbetween smaller parties, 8-10man squads, I don't really think any of those experiences are more or less valid.

 

50% of the time there are no guild squads up at all, most guilds don't have a squad up constantly either, I recock around 50% of the playerbase on average is fighting in a zerg fight and the other half is somewhere between roaming and very small squad, I do it all myself but right now only thing I feel works and still feel semi fun is squad fighting 15+, but that gets boring pretty quick.

 

I was having quite fun prior to this patch after they had fixed the biggest problems earlier like for example unblockable 40% sick'em rangers, only real problem left was shatter mesmers still beeing able to blow most players in a single opening, and elementalist beeing too survivable prior to the big patch, both was not

[lodjur.1284]

Early HoT meta was good roaming tho, late HoT meta was awful tho. Last patch was much worse

 

Only the point about ressing is really valid. There should be something done about the state of downstate. With dmg/healing being lower downstate is stronger than before and it was already too strong.

[Voltekka.2375]

Are we playing the same game? This meta has more builds than any other meta. You have to actually use your brain to skillfully kill enemies now. And GOOD FRIGGIN riddance to the pirateship meta that has plagued wvw for years. Melee builds are a thing now again. As Confucius once said,

"in a ranged meta, melee has no place. In a melee meta, ranged has a place"

[Hannelore.8153]

Imagine a game in which people think surviving and having a longer TTK is toxic gameplay. Maybe if so many people hadn't built their entire GW2 career on one-shotting, one-upping, ganking and various other actually-toxic behaviors, we wouldn't be here.

 

One good thing about this game is it rains karma down on you. :p

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Are we playing the same game? This meta has more builds than any other meta. You have to actually use your brain to skillfully kill enemies now. And GOOD FRIGGIN riddance to the pirateship meta that has plagued wvw for years. Melee builds are a thing now again. As Confucius once said,

> "in a ranged meta, melee has no place. In a melee meta, ranged has a place"

 

Maybe it’s because you are EU...but here in NA, we’ve had boon push meta ever since Pof came out...which basically just scourge popping shroud bombs in a melle push.

 

The only real pirate ship tactics we ever used is just reverse pushing... where we would pretend to run away and then reverse. Works very poorly in open field gVg so it’s mostly just pushing into melle and just sustaining through it.

 

Right now, this meta imo, is absolute garbage...not because there are less builds, but it’s because the builds you can play that are ACTUALLY viable is very narrow(ie; not some Condi Tempest build a tweenager rolls so he can make some silent twitch stream with 0 viewers and act like it’s viable because he’s still alive after the first push)

 

When we talk about viable builds, we should be talking about builds that actually synergies well.

 

Like as an ele, why should I be running mistform, in a WvW Zerg... do I not know how to dodge? Why am I specced into earth to clear condo from myself? Shouldn’t i be clearing conditions from my allies? Or doing actual damage? Or doing actual support? Am I just in this Zerg because I’m a tweenage twitch streamer?

 

Builds nowadays have no synergy, and the only builds that work are builds that haven’t been nerfed yet (like bomb scrapper was never good, it just wasn’t nerfed like every other decent power build that is now effectively dead)

 

And the builds that do have synergy and have always had synergy to this day remains classes like firebrand and scourge. No matter how much they try to remove them from the game, they will be meta...they have been nerfed over and over and over for 2 years and they are still meta.

 

So tell me, if you think pushing numbers up and down a notch is “okay good balance patch” than strap on because you’ll be in for a wild ride when Cantha balance arrives if they don’t figure out how to balance the game before then.

[Yasai.3549]

Condi never changed.

 

What changed was things that preyed on Condi aka. Power builds.

 

I want Anet to balance this but I don't want them to simply buff power.

 

I'm sure this is an exciting challenge for them to balance.

 

In 6 months.

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > Are we playing the same game? This meta has more builds than any other meta. You have to actually use your brain to skillfully kill enemies now. And GOOD FRIGGIN riddance to the pirateship meta that has plagued wvw for years. Melee builds are a thing now again. As Confucius once said,

> > "in a ranged meta, melee has no place. In a melee meta, ranged has a place"

>

> Maybe it’s because you are EU...but here in NA, we’ve had boon push meta ever since Pof came out...which basically just scourge popping shroud bombs in a melle push.

>

> The only real pirate ship tactics we ever used is just reverse pushing... where we would pretend to run away and then reverse. Works very poorly in open field gVg so it’s mostly just pushing into melle and just sustaining through it.

>

> Right now, this meta imo, is absolute garbage...not because there are less builds, but it’s because the builds you can play that are ACTUALLY viable is very narrow(ie; not some Condi Tempest build a tweenager rolls so he can make some silent twitch stream with 0 viewers and act like it’s viable because he’s still alive after the first push)

>

> When we talk about viable builds, we should be talking about builds that actually synergies well.

>

> Like as an ele, why should I be running mistform, in a WvW Zerg... do I not know how to dodge? Why am I specced into earth to clear condo from myself? Shouldn’t i be clearing conditions from my allies? Or doing actual damage? Or doing actual support? Am I just in this Zerg because I’m a tweenage twitch streamer?

>

> Builds nowadays have no synergy, and the only builds that work are builds that haven’t been nerfed yet (like bomb scrapper was never good, it just wasn’t nerfed like every other decent power build that is now effectively dead)

>

> And the builds that do have synergy and have always had synergy to this day remains classes like firebrand and scourge. No matter how much they try to remove them from the game, they will be meta...they have been nerfed over and over and over for 2 years and they are still meta.

>

> So tell me, if you think pushing numbers up and down a notch is “okay good balance patch” than strap on because you’ll be in for a wild ride when Cantha balance arrives if they don’t figure out how to balance the game before then.

 

We are not talking about personal skill. You run mistform? (or any other OHSHI--- utilities?) thats up to your skill. I have seen eles run full dps, I have seen eles run 3 defensive utilities.

 

Please, speak to me more about fb and scourge synergy. Why doesnt fb synergize with scrapper/ele/spellbreaker? Is it only with scourge? No, quite the contrary. Healeles/anticondi eles and healscrappers plus fb complement each other.

 

Personally, I have 4 zerg builds, depending on commander preference/playstyle/what the squad needs. 2 are reaper. 2 are scourge. None are pure condi. All work well, depending on situation.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

This isn't even close to HoT. This is in fact miles better than anything that has happened since then.

 

If you want to see big numbers go full Berserker. But that actually comes with a risk now. That's _new_.

[Doug.4930]

Have to agree that the meta is much better since they've toned down power.

 

Also agree that condi needs toning down too. Downstate is probably the most broken thing at the moment so I agree again with you there. Players should be forced to earn that revive instead of just pressing F.

[phreeak.1023]

Don't see that condi is the to go meta. Every leader wants a dps scrapper because they are rly powerfull since the patch. Easy to burst in a zerg fight hundreds of thousand AOE damage in some seconds.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I disagree. Plus the team at least attempted to take the game in a direction that the majority of players wanted and were successful partially. The were upfront and acknowledged that some issues would be likely after such a large patch. Is pvp balance good right now? I'd say no it's not, its actually really bad and not fun imo as it is. Are fixes to the issues being done fast enough? No imo they are not. Why was last fix solely on ranger, why couldn't necro,rev and fb fixes/slight nerds be part of that patch? Their obvious outliers as it stands so....

That said though the changes made in the last big patch may be the first of many steps to a better pvp experience, can only hope.