Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > "jUsT kIlL tHe PeT" > > > "jUsT dOdGe F2" > > > "L2P" > > > > > > Except this ignores the sustain, dps and CC provided by a ranger with LB/GS ... > > > And it ignores the actual point of the post - no one is saying there aren't counters (most things have counters), but instead that it is unhealthy for the game irrespective of whether or not it can be countered. Getting hit for 9-10k from one ability is contrary to the entire direction of the recent balance update. > > > > But why is it ok for other specs like Power Shiro to hit a 10k strike, but not a Ranger? > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > During the 2v2, I had Noir surprise me with a Power Shiro use over Condi Mallyx. The guy Phase Traversed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s. Power Shiro deals like Triple the damage output of a Core Ranger, in half the amount of time. Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. enchanted daggers - phase traversal - sword 2 that combo easily does 8k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > **Furious Pounce** > Damage: 1,108 (4.168) > > :o > > Can i have this on my Warrior? > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Tiger power - 1524 ferocity - 0 theres a reason pets have high coefficients, not defending them, just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor.3720 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > > "jUsT kIlL tHe PeT" > > > > "jUsT dOdGe F2" > > > > "L2P" > > > > > > > > Except this ignores the sustain, dps and CC provided by a ranger with LB/GS ... > > > > And it ignores the actual point of the post - no one is saying there aren't counters (most things have counters), but instead that it is unhealthy for the game irrespective of whether or not it can be countered. Getting hit for 9-10k from one ability is contrary to the entire direction of the recent balance update. > > > > > > But why is it ok for other specs like Power Shiro to hit a 10k strike, but not a Ranger? > > > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > > > > > During the 2v2, I had Noir surprise me with a Power Shiro use over Condi Mallyx. The guy Phase Traversed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s. Power Shiro deals like Triple the damage output of a Core Ranger, in half the amount of time. > > Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. This one time, a core ele lightning flashed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s with water autoattack. Core ele deals like Triple the damage output of a Power Shiro, in half the amount of time. Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. Anecdotes are great. And what may or may not have happened to your necro in 2v2 from a rev is a super relevant point about the state of ranger pets, AI and damage modifiers from ranger traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krypto.2069 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Leave FLUFFY and his pals alone. They just wanna snuggle up with you! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution.5409 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Neil.3825" said: > Don't nerf pets. Give rangers the same mecanic of ventari's tablet for pet, it would be hilarious to see them micromanaging. :'D > Then all rangers "No, pls nerf dmg but give us back our good old passive pet". To write such a stupid thing means that you have no idea how complicated it can be to manage a class mechanic that you cannot entirely control. Any type of active mechanic would make this profession much better and Ventari's tablet cannot be killed would be an added bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > **Furious Pounce** > > Damage: 1,108 (4.168) > > > > :o > > > > Can i have this on my Warrior? > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Tiger > power - 1524 > ferocity - 0 > theres a reason pets have high coefficients, not defending them, just sayin. Even when you do the math to scale this ability down it is still about as strong as eviscerate lv3. I don't think it should be this strong. Do i want it to be weak, no..just not where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethekey.8314 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > > @"bethekey.8314" said: > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > > There is a difference between something being busted at all levels of play and something only good at low tiers. > > > > At what point do you sit back, realize you're a vocal minority, and consider your class is actually over-performing in some aspects? > > I prefer to balance around the top tier and have people learn to play, as that's what I believe it means to balance around competitive modes. > > Something bad at high tier but good at low tier is a learn to play problem. > > Something good at high tier and good at low tier needs nerfs. > > Something bad at high tier and bad at low tier needs buffs. I don't browse the forums that often, so forgive me if this has already been stated multiple times. What is high and low tier? Where do you draw the lines? To be clear, you are doing pretty well with this build this season yes? Yet you've been labeling this as a "something bad at high tier but good at low tier" problem. Are you saying you're not playing at a high tier or are exceptionally skilled yourself? If you're not going to call plat 2+ players high tier, then I'm sorry, but your vision for high tier isn't reasonable for the current state of the game (e.g. low population, knowledge gap between vets and new players). If you're going to call yourself exceptionally skilled, then you should realize that your viewpoint--as an exception--likely isn't feasible for the normies out there. Also, it seems to me that the more productive discussion is to find an agreeable tradeoff for nerfs to pet / maul damage. No one likes fighting or controlling AI; even the best player will sometimes get hit by the "tiger 8k". Why not concede that pet damage should be toned down in exchange for more consistent, active damage / utility on the player's side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > > > "jUsT kIlL tHe PeT" > > > > > "jUsT dOdGe F2" > > > > > "L2P" > > > > > > > > > > Except this ignores the sustain, dps and CC provided by a ranger with LB/GS ... > > > > > And it ignores the actual point of the post - no one is saying there aren't counters (most things have counters), but instead that it is unhealthy for the game irrespective of whether or not it can be countered. Getting hit for 9-10k from one ability is contrary to the entire direction of the recent balance update. > > > > > > > > But why is it ok for other specs like Power Shiro to hit a 10k strike, but not a Ranger? > > > > > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > > > > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > > > > > > > > > During the 2v2, I had Noir surprise me with a Power Shiro use over Condi Mallyx. The guy Phase Traversed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s. Power Shiro deals like Triple the damage output of a Core Ranger, in half the amount of time. > > > > Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. > > This one time, a core ele lightning flashed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s with water autoattack. Core ele deals like Triple the damage output of a Power Shiro, in half the amount of time. > > Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. > > Anecdotes are great. And what may or may not have happened to your necro in 2v2 from a rev is a super relevant point about the state of ranger pets, AI and damage modifiers from ranger traits. Except that what you're saying is entirely sarcastic and a strawman response. What I said was actually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > This is a result of taking a glass cannon pet, full Beast Mastery line, all pet buffs, Spotter, max Might stacking, 25 Vulnerability from Opening Strike etc. It also doesn't work if there's too many people near the Ranger because their allies get the buffs instead of the pet. > > (Though the target limit is easier to reach in PvE/WvW than PvP.) > > > > It seems simple when you get hit by it but its extremely sacrificial and hard to pull off, and easy to counter. Pets are extremely easy to disable since most Ranger skills don't directly affect them, (even just a stray Chill or Cripple will usually do), and there's Weakness too. > > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > > I am like 90% certain it is actually bugged and tigers, birds, and a few others are ignoring armor and damage reductions buffs entirely. > > > > > > My dumbdumb warrior build has 3.6k armor(like a lot of armor, seriously.) and -48% damage reduction and those types of pets just hit right through it for numbers similar to these. The ranger might hit like 1-3k with a maul, but the pet is just doing insane damage despite the damage reductions. > > > > > > I've seen some core ranger people too that seem to building to play super evasively and just harassing people with axe or LB while their pet carries the damage. > > > > Moment of Clarity is +50% damage, your defenses are useless if you've been interrupted (and armor has a soft cap of ~3k). > > Spotter in PvP lol > > BTW you don't need 25 might/ 25 vuln to get these hits out of pets, and that's part of the problem... it's not hard to pull off I don't see why its funny, cats and birds are Precision-based pets, they're dependant on critical hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > "jUsT kIlL tHe PeT" > > > "jUsT dOdGe F2" > > > "L2P" > > > > > > Except this ignores the sustain, dps and CC provided by a ranger with LB/GS ... > > > And it ignores the actual point of the post - no one is saying there aren't counters (most things have counters), but instead that it is unhealthy for the game irrespective of whether or not it can be countered. Getting hit for 9-10k from one ability is contrary to the entire direction of the recent balance update. > > > > But why is it ok for other specs like Power Shiro to hit a 10k strike, but not a Ranger? > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > XD > Why you keep bringing "but others are more broken, so my broken is ok to be broken" as an argument in the discussions? Not only you, but a lot of uber biased mains that defend their broken stuff. Get real guys... > Ranger damage should be like 70% player and 30% pet or something between these lines, it's the AI, shouldn't have higher damage than player itself. > Ranger burst hits for 7k, pet should hit max for 3k total 10k. OFC, that should only happen if all stars align and it shouldn't happen all the time. > Once again, don't ask for buffs, there's still a LOT stuff to nerf (waving at you FB especially). But like it already is 70% player based, at least for tiger becuz pounce is only useful during maul+hiltbash combo, which requires a lot of set up and a pet swap cd.> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > > "jUsT kIlL tHe PeT" > > > > "jUsT dOdGe F2" > > > > "L2P" > > > > > > > > Except this ignores the sustain, dps and CC provided by a ranger with LB/GS ... > > > > And it ignores the actual point of the post - no one is saying there aren't counters (most things have counters), but instead that it is unhealthy for the game irrespective of whether or not it can be countered. Getting hit for 9-10k from one ability is contrary to the entire direction of the recent balance update. > > > > > > But why is it ok for other specs like Power Shiro to hit a 10k strike, but not a Ranger? > > > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > > > > > During the 2v2, I had Noir surprise me with a Power Shiro use over Condi Mallyx. The guy Phase Traversed to me from across Asuran Arena and killed my Core Necromancer in like 2s. Power Shiro deals like Triple the damage output of a Core Ranger, in half the amount of time. > > Like really though, I'm not just saying that. That is actually true. That’s a girl but ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > Even when you do the math to scale this ability down it is still about as strong as eviscerate lv3. I don't think it should be this strong. Do i want it to be weak, no..just not where it is. except the animation is akin to killshot with only 400 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > Even when you do the math to scale this ability down it is still about as strong as eviscerate lv3. I don't think it should be this strong. Do i want it to be weak, no..just not where it is. > > except the animation is akin to killshot with only 400 range. Which has the same coeff just slightly higher damage due to rifles having higher weapon power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > enchanted daggers - phase traversal - sword 2 > that combo easily does 8k. > We're talking about single hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > I've been wondering this for a very long time now. > > > > > > In WvW maybe, but in PvP that is extremely unlikely unless you are light armor with 25 Vulnerability. The highest I've seen is 9k and that was only 1 time. > > > > enchanted daggers - phase traversal - sword 2 > > that combo easily does 8k. > > > > We're talking about single hits. maybe you are but i'm not sure trevor is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > Even when you do the math to scale this ability down it is still about as strong as eviscerate lv3. I don't think it should be this strong. Do i want it to be weak, no..just not where it is. > > > > except the animation is akin to killshot with only 400 range. > > Which has the same coeff just slightly higher damage due to rifles having higher weapon power. its an obvious animation you can most likely walk away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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