Why are we forced to play a mode if we dont like it?

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"thepenmonster.3621" said:

> "Forced" is Anet locking Almora's story behind a strike. Vanity items are chosen.

It's only a "strike" in name. It's nothing at all like the "real" strikes. It's easier to solo than some personal story instances.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I didn't even know it was a strike mission; thought it was open world lol. But I do get the point.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"thepenmonster.3621" said:

> > "Forced" is Anet locking Almora's story behind a strike. Vanity items are chosen.

> It's only a "strike" in name. It's nothing at all like the "real" strikes.

It depends on how you look at it, it gives strike specific currencies, it advances strike specific achievements and it counts for the weekly chest. And while you technically can't fail it it's also easier to turn into a mess than some of the other SMs if people don't do the mechanics.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > @"thepenmonster.3621" said:

> > > "Forced" is Anet locking Almora's story behind a strike. Vanity items are chosen.

> > It's only a "strike" in name. It's nothing at all like the "real" strikes.

> It depends on how you look at it, it **gives strike specific currencies**, it **advances strike specific achievements** and it **counts for the weekly chest**. And while you technically can't fail it it's also easier to turn into a mess than some of the other SMs if people don't to the mechanics.

Yep, but consider this: in the context of the post I responded to, the things I bolded are actually a good thing for someone not wanting to do strikes. None of the strike drawbacks, yet some of the rewards.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

>

> But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

This, of course, is entitlement.

[Ryou.2398]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> >

> > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> This, of course, is entitlement.

 

No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> > >

> > > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> > This, of course, is entitlement.

>

> No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

No. It's not like saying that at all.

[Astralporing.1957]

Overusing the word "entitlement", throwing it left and right and bringing it up any form of desire/want is even suggested caused it to lose all real meaning long ago. By now, anyone that has even the least sort of expectations for this game can be called entitled.

[kharmin.7683]

Every type of player should be able to get any legendary? I thought that was possible already?

[lokh.2695]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> Every type of player should be able to get any legendary? I thought that was possible already?

 

It is, but they still have to play the game and for some that's too much to ask for. That's why we get these "Where's muh free stuffz!?!? Thought I could play how I like!!?!?!?" threads once every two weeks.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > To get a Legendary should include all aspects of the game.

>

> That used to be true but not anymore. You don't really need to enter Raids to get any Legendary item except for Envoy Armor. You don't need to do any form of PVE to get the PVP or WVW Legendary armors (although it will help with certain materials). Then there is the WVW and PVP exclusive Legendary items, and so on. Obviously no Legendary item requires -anything- released during the Icebrood Saga either. The "all aspects of the game" phrase flew away some time ago, now Legendary items are acquired by playing more specific content.

 

You are conflating Legendary Armor with Trinkets + Legendary Weapons. They are obtained in different manners.

 

Legendary Armor: you either Raid, PvP or WvW for the currency, and only the WvW armor requires a Gift of Battle. Both the Raid and PvP set requires items earned in their respective game modes.

 

Trinkets:

Aurora, Vision - both require a Gift of Battle , PvE currency and PvE achievements - **requires WvW + PvE**

Coalescence: doesn't require a Gift of Battle, requires raid currency achievements and PvE currency + Gift of Desert Mastery. **requires Raiding + PvE**

Conflux + Transcendence: both require Gift of Battle, currencies earned in their respective game modes, as well as achievements in those game modes.

 

Then you have the Weapons

 

Gen 1:

Requires a Gift of Battle **requires WvW**

Requires a Gift of Exploration **requires PvE**

Requires participation in Fractals if precursor is to be crafted.

 

Gen 2:

Requires a Gift of Battle **requires WvW**

Requires PvE collections + Gift of Maguuma Mastery **requires PvE**

Requires participation in Fractals

 

Gen 2.5:

Requires a Gift of Battle **requires WvW**

Requires a Gift of Maguuma Mastery / Desert Mastery **requires PvE**

 

**So to sum up:**

Legendary Armor is acquired in its own sphere: raiding, WvW or PvP. All other material requirements are obtained via the TP.

Legendary Trinkets are acquired via a mixture of WvW/PvP/PvE, with the exception being Conflux, as that is the only legendary accessory that can be obtained solely by playing within its own game mode. Coalescence requires Gift of Desert Mastery, so a Raider still has to do OW PvE

Legendary Weapons require a mixture of WvW and PvE to complete.

 

So while you are correct in saying _"You don't really need to enter Raids to get any Legendary item except for Envoy Armor. You don't need to do any form of PVE to get the PVP or WVW Legendary armors (although it will help with certain materials)"_ that applies only to Legendary Armor.

 

For Legendary weapons and accessories (with the exception of Conflux), a player must participate in both WvW and PvE (including fractals) to obtain them. "all aspects of the game" may be an exaggeration, but it's close to being accurate, and both WvW and PvE players are required to venture into the opposite game mode. The uncomfortable truth of it all is, it takes less time to get the Gift of Battle for a PvE-only player than it does to get the PvE-sourced components for a WvW-only player.

 

As a PvX player, crafting legendaries is fairly straight forward for me...maybe that's a hint.

 

 

 

[yann.1946]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > > > It doesn’t work against these goals.

> > > Like it or not but if it discourages people to go for them then yes, it does work against these goals.

> > No, it discourages SOME people.

> Meaning it still: "does work against these goals"

>

>

 

Not really, it depends on how much game play is added by adding this requirement vs how much game playtime is lost by discouraging players by this req.

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> Honestly, for those of you reading, I would recommend to spend no more than 15 minutes on the wvw dailies; it's often better just to advance the track a bit and do something else. If you're spending hours or something, just don't if you don't like the content.

 

Solid advice. Crafting a legendary is only painful if you're in a hurry. The pace is set by the player (for the most part), and the hardest part is to manage expectations and delay a sense of gratification while you grind out the mats...and this is most decidedly a grind, and done so on purpose. But to flip 2 camps, kill a sentry and stand in the circle, and spend badges of honor for Big Spender takes very little time, and those three dailies net you 4 potions of WvW reward - do that 20 times and boom, a Gift of Battle (+1 Amalgamated Gem stone + 2 Mystic Clovers), and that doesn't even count any reward track 'ticks' you earn just by spending longer than 5 minutes on the map.

 

Legendaries are the most expensive and laborious cosmetic items in the game, and if players want them, they need to understand what they are undertaking.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> > >

> > > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> > This, of course, is entitlement.

>

> No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

 

The fact is that every type of player IS able to get any legendary; nothing blocks them BUT their own willingness to do what is needed. I mean, they can even BUY one outright if they can't play enough to get the mats/gold to create one. Anet has made every avenue open for people to get a legendary weapon if they really want one.

 

Don't confuse what a player is or isn't willing to do with what they are able to do. Those are two completely different considerations.

[Tails.9372]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > > > > It doesn’t work against these goals.

> > > > Like it or not but if it discourages people to go for them then yes, it does work against these goals.

> > > No, it discourages SOME people.

> > Meaning it still: "does work against these goals"

> Not really, it depends on how much game play is added by adding this requirement vs how much game playtime is lost by discouraging players by this req.

No, the more accurate question would be: how many people are discouraged from going after them by having these requirements vs. how many people would be discouraged from going after them by not having these requirements.

 

And with that in mind I've only seen two valid points against it being brought up which however don't apply fully or can be addressed by other means and don't require universality:

 

1st: "It would bring down the prices which in turn discourages other players from making them."

 

^ which only applies to gen 1 leg weapons which, like I said, I personally wouldn't change.

 

and 2nd: "requiring to go into other game modes adds replay value to these modes"

 

^ issue here is that there are other ways to increase their appeal and I also mentioned that having some legendaries which can only be acquired by going into another game modes wouldn't be an issue as long as there are other alternatives for those who are put off by this.

[yann.1946]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > > > > > It doesn’t work against these goals.

> > > > > Like it or not but if it discourages people to go for them then yes, it does work against these goals.

> > > > No, it discourages SOME people.

> > > Meaning it still: "does work against these goals"

> > Not really, it depends on how much game play is added by adding this requirement vs how much game playtime is lost by discouraging players by this req.

> No, the more accurate question would be: how many people are discouraged from going after them by having these requirements vs how many people would be discouraged from going after them by not having these requirements.

>

> And with that in mind I've only seen two valid points against it being brought up which however don't apply fully or can be addressed by other means and don't require universality:

>

> 1st: "It would bring down the prices which in turn discourages other players from making them."

>

> ^ which only applies to gen 1 legendaries which, like I said, I personally wouldn't change.

>

> and 2nd: "requiring to go into other game modes adds replay value to these modes"

>

> ^ issue here is that there are other ways to increase their appeal and I also mentioned that having some legendaries which can only be acquired by going into another game modes wouldn't be an issue as long as there are other alternatives for those who are put off by this.

 

For me the amount of people is not that relevant.for arguments sake If you lose 1 person net to the req. But their are now 2 people who realized they enjoy wvw. And as such they added way more playtime then the game lost to 1 person leaving.

 

On your last point. Adding multiple reasons to a game mode is not a bad thing.

[Blude.6812]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:i have no ideas why one would be so upset over an overpridced skin.

>

> Because skins are the endgame?

>

 

I have always felt that this (bling) is not much of an end game.

 

 

[Ryou.2398]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> > > >

> > > > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> > > This, of course, is entitlement.

> >

> > No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

> No. It's not like saying that at all.

 

Yes it actually is very similar, we spent money on an mmo for certain reasons, they clearly state what the mmo is and the claim from the company how casual of an mmo it can be for many.

[Mortifera.6138]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:i have no ideas why one would be so upset over an overpridced skin.

> >

> > Because skins are the endgame?

> >

>

> I have always felt that this (bling) is not much of an end game.

>

>

 

It is the endgame, but you're right, it's not very meaningful.

[Cuks.8241]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> > > > >

> > > > > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> > > > This, of course, is entitlement.

> > >

> > > No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

> > No. It's not like saying that at all.

>

> Yes it actually is very similar, we spent money on an mmo for certain reasons, they clearly state what the mmo is and the claim from the company how casual of an mmo it can be for many.

 

And you can casually get GoB in WvW so all is as they say.

[Voltekka.2375]

Ok, let's assume someone grinds for a legendary weapon. Gen1 or gen2. 30g/hour, doing nonstop farming.

Bifrost (1400g) or nevermore (2120g) means 46 hours for Bifrost (GoE time not included) and 70 hours for nevermore (Maguuma map explo not included as well as the various events needed).

Juggernaut 1390g, Sharur 2260g. Similar hours needed as above, Sharur needs less time than Nevermore cause it needs just elder wood and mithril (no events).

Similarly, this applies to all gen1 and gen2 weapons. Gen1 need roughly 40+ hours plus GoE time (no GoB calculated) for Gen1, or 60-70 plus Maguuma/desert exploration plus any events needed for gen2.

 

You honestly complain about GoB? About 4-6 hours of a semiafk mode, where you can just cap a camp every 10 mins/escort dollies/ use daily wvw potions? Or does anyone enjoy doing 303 hearts or Maguuma/desert maps THAT much more?

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Let's tell it like it is. What people are really saying is not that they cannot get the Gift of Battle without entering WvW, it's that they can't get it quickly enough to suit them that way.

 

 

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Excursion.9752" said:

> It is just a proverbial hoop that you need to jump through. I don't like spending mats on them so does that mean they should remove that too? My logic does not seem very sound there right? If you make the decision to not have a good time before you go you have basically already made your bed. Go in with an open mind throw fear out the window. Nobody is going to judge you for how good or bad you are or how many times you die. Because trust me we all die. Just some more than others and no body is counting.

 

One could argue that if someone doesn't want to do PvE, PvP, WvW, and crafting, he should be gifted all the legendary gear for free by OP logic.

[Excursion.9752]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > It is just a proverbial hoop that you need to jump through. I don't like spending mats on them so does that mean they should remove that too? My logic does not seem very sound there right? If you make the decision to not have a good time before you go you have basically already made your bed. Go in with an open mind throw fear out the window. Nobody is going to judge you for how good or bad you are or how many times you die. Because trust me we all die. Just some more than others and no body is counting.

>

> One could argue that if someone doesn't want to do PvE, PvP, WvW, and crafting, he should be gifted all the legendary gear for free by OP logic.

LoL Right!

I'm not sure what they would need the GoB for? Bank sitting and map chat perhaps? Trolls gotta Troll in style.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > > > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > > You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

> > > > >

> > > > > But but every type of player should be able to get any legendary

> > > > This, of course, is entitlement.

> > >

> > > No it is not entitlement at all, thats like saying every type of player has entitlement for being able to play any class they like it is part of the game.

> > No. It's not like saying that at all.

>

> Yes it actually is very similar, we spent money on an mmo for certain reasons, they clearly state what the mmo is and the claim from the company how casual of an mmo it can be for many.

 

You spend money on an MMO but NOT so it could be custom tailored so that every player can decide what they are willing to do to get whatever they want. That is an UNREALISTIC expectation for anyone to have of any MMO. just because there are set paths to obtain certain things does not indicate the game isn't casual friendly. Players would need to pay many orders of magnitude more for a game that does that.