Supreme.3164 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to your rules , other people are trying to enjoy the game just as much as you , **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against. Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their, if it's not fun for you to be stunlocked/feared chained/insta killed or whatever why would you think it'd be different for other people? Less ego and more self-reflection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Follow your own advice then. The whole point about a game is to be fun. "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their," This is exactly why people complain about stuff being broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme.3164 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > Follow your own advice then. The whole point about a game is to be fun. > "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their," > This is exactly why people complain about stuff being broken. There is the possibility also that your opponent is simply more skilled than you are, not to say that professions or build cannot be broken from time to time because certainly they can be but.....sometimes the opponent is simply better than you and some people hate to admit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > Follow your own advice then. The whole point about a game is to be fun. > > "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their," > > This is exactly why people complain about stuff being broken. > > There is the possibility also that your opponent is simply more skilled than you are, not to say that professions or build cannot be broken from time to time because certainly they can be but.....sometimes the opponent is simply better than you and some people hate to admit it Or he is carried by the build like Scourge for a year where it could put out 1,4 million damage per game with just conditions, while the average was 300k to AoE builds before its release. Or the immortal crono, people had allot of fun then, or last year when scrapper was immovable side noder or even bunker necro last patch. Felt so much skill trying it man no one could kill me, probably the most boring crap i have played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to your rules , other people are trying to enjoy the game just as much as you , **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against. Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their, if it's not fun for you to be stunlocked/feared chained/insta killed or whatever why would you think it'd be different for other people? no, I don't see any problem if someone "cry". It fun. Also, I hope, that this "crying" is "whisper in ocean" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > Follow your own advice then. The whole point about a game is to be fun. > "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their," no, they should not. In many game one top build can kill 10 non meta tops. This is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > Follow your own advice then. The whole point about a game is to be fun. > > "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their," > no, they should not. In many game one top build can kill 10 non meta tops. This is ok. > > Did you read the whole thing or just didn't bother to notice that i point out he is contradicting himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to your rules , other people are trying to enjoy the game just as much as you , **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against. Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their, if it's not fun for you to be stunlocked/feared chained/insta killed or whatever why would you think it'd be different for other people? > > Less ego and more self-reflection.... So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay? Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story. You're kinda going against your own words in that post... You say " **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 its too late lol. the ship is going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme.3164 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to your rules , other people are trying to enjoy the game just as much as you , **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against. Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their, if it's not fun for you to be stunlocked/feared chained/insta killed or whatever why would you think it'd be different for other people? > > > > Less ego and more self-reflection.... > > So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay? > Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story. > You're kinda going against your own words in that post... > You say " **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. > I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme.3164 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > its too late lol. the ship is going down. It's never too late for anybody to change the way they look at things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 yea there were some pretty cool traits that got oblilerated. IP must have been fun to use. I wouldn't mind if they reimplement some of them, but adapted to current meta. Pretty much the same reason why I don't wanna go back to pure glass-only scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to your rules , other people are trying to enjoy the game just as much as you , **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against. Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their, if it's not fun for you to be stunlocked/feared chained/insta killed or whatever why would you think it'd be different for other people? > > > > > > Less ego and more self-reflection.... > > > > So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay? > > Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story. > > You're kinda going against your own words in that post... > > You say " **nobody** has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. > > > > I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example... It's gonna be difficult to write everything that was broken, so I'll just put few examples of pre-nerfed state builds: Condi Mirage(all versions, iframe spam says hi), Condi Thief(even currently is kitten, condi spam says hi), Druid(side-noder, ancient seed spam says hi), Warrior(all versions, overstacked Full-counter/rampage says hi), Chronomancer(bunker and phantasm says hi), Fireweaver(condi/evasion spam says hi), Hambow(stunlock says hi), Turret Engi(AI says hi), Minionmancer(AI says hi) and many more that made people quit since 2012. Don't know about you, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy being trashed without any kind of counterplay, even if they were trying to tune their build to counter XYZ, some were straight-up uncounterable. Like 1shots from stealth, overspam of condies, unkillable bunkers(current era to a degree). A lot of people quit because of memes like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xWiroo.3841 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > Generally speaking, MMOs are not about playing a game accordingly to **your** rules Exactly, there should be established rules or mindset by arenanet about pvp design and its balance, but there isnt since pvp balances are weak and superficial due to no understandment of pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 There's a lot of unfun things in this game. The big mega """pruning""" patch fixed a lot of it but a lot still exists. Druid is a good example, no one wants to pvp against that garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 It's perfectly reasonable. You die to something in game, 5 minutes later on the forums... If you're lucky, it works sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aihao.5824 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 dont think dat patch fixet something. I like play squishy and high damage builds, but now we have no sustain even on berserk amulet. Lots of tank build do far more damage than u, some condi builds are too not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovark.2514 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Games are about having fun. If something is un-fun to play against, that is code for "At least one of a class's mechanics are not being put into play." This is a design issue and needs to be addressed ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 > @"Ovark.2514" said: > Games are about having fun. If something is un-fun to play against, that is code for "At least one of a class's mechanics are not being put into play." This is a design issue and needs to be addressed ASAP. Why is you think that this is not good? This is part of game. Just take it as rule. If you go andin raid and can't kill raid boss Dhuum solo - should you ask fix it as issue asap ?? So same this some builds on pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Games are about fun. Fun doesn't automatically mean every class should be strong in 1 vs. 1 against each of the other classes. Would even more be unfun since builds diversity would get rare if one class could always win against each other class in 1 vs. 1. (You would have to assume that all builds of that class could win against all of the other builds of each other class. Since builds can't be changed in a conquest match. In deathmatch the other guy might adapt his build as well.) So I think first step is to recognize that this is a team game and that certain builds might counter other builds. (Not classes countering each other. But some classes maybe having access to much more counter-builds against another class.) Personally I like if the team thing gets interesting/important. Also if other stuff than combat (secondary mechanics on conquest) are involved - so you can do more for your team than standing somewhere and fighting. ("Mobile builds" and stuff like that.) That's just pure fun and stupidly only fighting each other and wanting classses balanced for 1 vs. 1 ... is boring. Mabye for the top players playing not for fun but for rating only (while not caring for fun) this is good. But let's face the truth: This game isn't made for such players. And trying to attract those players (and going big for e-sports and stuff) will fail. I mean ... didn't they try already in the past and fail? Same with trying to copy MOBA with Stronghold map. There are already games a lot stronger for players that want such stuff. By developing in that direction you'll compete with those stronger games by not keeping the core fans of GW2 entertained. Better trying the different stuff to attract different customers that don't have (much) other games to play. --- While a lot of people claim they don't want conquest and like "pure" PvP ... I heard a lot of older people that have played GW1 mentioning that Fort Aspenwood was so great. From what I have seen in the wiki (and in game in the mission description - can't play it due to low playerbase) this seems to have PvE stuff involved. Not "pure PvP". And people seem to have liked it a lot. Also not trying hard to copy MOBA. Well seems there is a bit PvE stuff but still lots of different stuff and strategies ... not like the boring Stronghold map. More than 5 playes in a team ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 doesnt matter, there's no skill in this game anyway, just builds, it's just about who pick the next counter first. may as well just play strategy game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollbirtan.2915 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > doesnt matter, there's no skill in this game anyway, just builds, it's just about who pick the next counter first. > may as well just play strategy game. This may come as a surprise to you, but pvp in general involves a lot of strategy. Even in shooters / MOBAs, you need to use your brain and strategize if you want to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 > @"Luthan.5236" said: > But let's face the truth: This game isn't made for such players. And trying to attract those players (and going big for e-sports and stuff) will fail. I mean ... didn't they try already in the past and fail? yes, it was in past. It was aborted. And this is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > doesnt matter, there's no skill in this game anyway, just builds, it's just about who pick the next counter first. yes, the skill choose properly class and build. The skill choose properly duo setup. Why this is bad? In some mmo game all about some skill/weapon ecnhant and improvement. This also ok. Why people at all wait some magic balance in game? > may as well just play strategy game. want balance? - try chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > doesnt matter, there's no skill in this game anyway, just builds, it's just about who pick the next counter first. > yes, the skill choose properly class and build. The skill choose properly duo setup. Why this is bad? In some mmo game all about some skill/weapon ecnhant and improvement. This also ok. Why people at all wait some magic balance in game? > > > may as well just play strategy game. > want balance? - try chess. > chess is unbalanced too :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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