Remove Sniff and finish downed players from Warclaw

[Anomander.6791]

While novel, these abilities have the power to greatly change the outcome of a fight. Especially when you are outnumber and can't rally your team mates because they were instantly finished. Both abilities need to be removed and replaced with something with less impact.

 

Bonus complaint: watchtower also screws over small groups trying to ninja cap towers.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Remove the finish AND the damage. As the dismounted player cannot damage or CC a mounted player, it just means they get a free 2-4k+ hit...or even worse, forces the dismounted player to burn a dodge. Mounts in PvE have a damage or CC on dismount, and that's great for that game mode, but in WvW, it shouldn't be used to inflict damage or defeat players while simultaneously giving the mounted player immunity to damage and CC.

 

As for sniff...I don't think it's overpowered at all. Players who know how/when to use it will benefit, while those who don't will not. Yes it can spoil the tactic of stacking tightly in a tower to pounce on a group once the wall goes down, but then that also adds an element of risk to such a tactic: maybe the enemy team isn't comprised of potatoes, used sniff to pinpoint your location, and baited you into a trap / stealth bomb. I've been on all sides of that equation: the group who waited and pounced, the group that pounced and got stealth bombed, and the reverse of both...and in none of those circumstances did I ever think "damn, sniff is OP".

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Remove Down State, then remove the finish from battle maul.

[Susy.7529]

Yea lol, let's nerf warclaw even more since it's not enough useless yet.

First leap distance, then speed, last the dismount skill, THAT'S ENOUGH!

[ArchonWing.9480]

Sniff is really only good for sweeping keeps and checking past doors. Mount stomp sucks but then again so does downstate. I would just nerf the damage on it.

 

Most tactivators should have never been in the game to begin with.

[kash.9213]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> None of this. Sniff is virtually useless except to count dots outside a wall your behind not like it ever leads to catching a invisible dude. Watchtowers are hardly ever up like 20 towers maybe 2 have the balloon in any match-up and finish is great to thin guild groups as pugs but yeah sucks when it happens to you

 

It doesn't even suck when it happens to me, it sucks when my stomp gets jacked. But also, a second or two of skill delay in a large fight can down a handful of players and one clown on a mount can yolo into that then bounce. I'd rather have only revive and no class skills on down and then just leave it alone and let people stomp each other or have to work as a team and take an area if they want the bags.

[Clownmug.8357]

Sniff doesn't apply Marked or affect stealthed players in any way, if that's what you're thinking.

[kash.9213]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > > None of this. Sniff is virtually useless except to count dots outside a wall your behind not like it ever leads to catching a invisible dude. Watchtowers are hardly ever up like 20 towers maybe 2 have the balloon in any match-up and finish is great to thin guild groups as pugs but yeah sucks when it happens to you

> >

> > It doesn't even suck when it happens to me, it sucks when my stomp gets jacked. But also, a second or two of skill delay in a large fight can down a handful of players and one clown on a mount can yolo into that then bounce. I'd rather have only revive and no class skills on down and then just leave it alone and let people stomp each other or have to work as a team and take an area if they want the bags.

>

> You mean you trying to finish a dude and I warclaw him bothers you? I def am the dude that will see flux and their 30 vs our 30-40 pugs and know they will just live forever w/o warclaw. It's also no fun downing 4 or 5 and they get revived instantly over and over so I am that clown that will snipe 3 downed double dodge out and eventually they leave keep by attrition. No way you stomping anyone in that situation. Sure downed skills and insta rez downed skills could use an adjustment as well just don't want the posters ideas implemented

 

I mean friendlies taking your stomp. Guilds and squads like that live forever because regardless of numbers people will crash into them over and over instead of snatching bodies and finishing them. That warclaw isn't bringing any balance, it's just letting you get yours while your side still gets cleaned up.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Your poll is missing options. And Sniff needs bolstered.

[Justine.6351]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> Your poll is missing options. And Sniff needs bolstered.

 

His poll is perfectly fine and concise.

[Mil.3562]

Please remove the Warclaw from WvW instead. Why? Because over the past year, ANet has already nerfed the mount countless time; shortened leap distance, nerfed killing targeted enemies from 5 to 3, nerfed power, nerfed size of hit box, nerfed speed, nerfed hp, dropped from 3 leaps to 2, imposed icd for mounting, added the skill to dismount players with just one shot from long range and now I still see players asking for more nerfs to the mount.

 

The purpose and benefits of having the mount is going to be totally gone soon, so might as well remove it. Oh, ANet don't forget to refund us all those gems that we spent on the Warclaw skins since the company always choose to listen to those mount haters instead of players who spend real money in support of having the mount in WvW.

 

edit: I vote for a 6th option : Remove The Mount From WvW.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

I like the fact i don't have to trait a run skill compromising my damage or survive ability so keep the Warclaw, thanks.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Remove downstate and the issue of the finish is negated entirely. Keep sniff, like all it does is help to pick engagements and allows the user to know somewhat the amount of people nearby which can make or break your chances of survival if you're roaming or doing small man, Also helps hunt down those pesky stealth freaks who decide to portal people into your owned stuff

[Doug.4930]

Sniff is fine.

 

Mount stomp is cheesy and really shouldn't be a thing, but sometimes its the only way to deal with the vastly overpowered downstate. In a 3v5 fight its sometimes just impossible for 3 players to cleave a 4 man rez. It takes all their skill and cooldowns to not only survive the 5 attacking them, but to also outplay and down one of them, only for downstate to swoop in and ensure the better players can't win because 4 players rezing an ally is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations. Sometimes in situations like this when one of our enemies who outnumber us greatly gets low, one of us gets out of combat and mounts up, so that we can instantly double down one of our opponents before they can abuse downstate. Because as stated above in a 3v5 thats quite often the only way you're going to get a double down.

 

Sure I get burned by mount stomp too from time to time, but If I'm already in downstate then I've already messed up and died. My frustration of being mount stomped by players circling fights is far outstripped by revive speed of a single player being excessively quicker than stomp animations

 

Nerf downstate to the point that its no longer a crutch for larger groups, then remove mount stomp.

 

TL;DR

Downstate bad. Mount stomp skips downstate, = mount stomp good sometimes.

[Virdo.1540]

imo sniff could need a buff. Like sniffing invisible enemies.

 

Or do they have deodorant in they smokebombs?

[Aspen Tie.5084]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> imo sniff could need a buff. Like sniffing invisible enemies.

>

> Or do they have deodorant in they smokebombs?

 

I also think it should reveal enemies in stealth but, I also realize that this might be a little over kill. However, it would be cool if it revealed traps.

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > Your poll is missing options. And Sniff needs bolstered.

>

> His poll is perfectly fine and concise.

 

But where's the option to give sniff a noticeable animation, have dismounting rally nearby downed enemies and support taco tuesday by having 5% of all gem store proceeds go to to local hot sauce manufacturers in the greater Seattle area? We need more obscure options to skew the results to make them more subjective therefore increasing disagreement in the thread.

 

~ Kovu

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Doug.4930" said:

> Mount stomp is cheesy and really shouldn't be a thing, but sometimes its the only way to deal with the vastly overpowered downstate. In a 3v5 fight its sometimes just impossible for 3 players to cleave a 4 man rez. It takes all their skill and cooldowns to not only survive the 5 attacking them, but to also outplay and down one of them, only for downstate to swoop in and ensure the better players can't win because 4 players rezing an ally is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations. Sometimes in situations like this when one of our enemies who outnumber us greatly gets low, one of us gets out of combat and mounts up, so that we can instantly double down one of our opponents before they can abuse downstate. Because as stated above in a 3v5 thats quite often the only way you're going to get a double down.

>

 

That's an interesting perspective, since from what I usually see, it is the larger group that has the people to spare to ride into a fight and stomp those in downed state. And since the Warclaw has 9k health and is CC immune, a warclaw mounted player going for the stomp, as you say "is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations".

 

So from my perspective, downed state + warclaw stomp BOTH favour the larger group, and regardless of whatever dreams you have of either downed state or the warclaw ever being removed from the game (hint: highly unlikely to ever happen), let's instead talk about what we have now, and how to make the best of it..and by removing the stomp, we remove one additional advantage the larger group (or the group whose reinforcements show up first) receives.

 

And it isn't about downed state being a 'crutch'. I hardly ever get revived or rally - if I go into downed state, 9/10 times I'm defeated. My issue is that short of another mounted player using a lance, there is nothing to stop a player from riding into the lords room, and leaping into a sea of red circles to finish off 3 downed players, and then likely dodge roll out to safety. Stomps should be worked for or cleaved down. You want to come stomp my team mate, you better load up on stability, blocks or invis, and at least we can try to intercept and prevent it. The warclaw circumvents all that.

 

Arguments can be made about revives being too quick, etc etc, that's a different topic. We're talking about the mount stomp, and all it does is give more power to those with larger numbers, and promotes a cheesy tactic of players waiting in the corridor on their mounts..unlike the clutch tactic you described which at least demonstrates some strategic thinking.

 

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> Your poll is missing options. And Sniff needs bolstered.

 

Agreed, Sniff should detect stealthed players and show them as a faded orange on the map to imply they are stealthed.

Also Sniff should either show hostiles for a longer duration or have a shorter CD as well.

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

>You want to come stomp my team mate, you better load up on stability, blocks or invis, and at least we can try to intercept and prevent it. The warclaw circumvents all that.

>

 

Your failure to intercept it is largely your own to be fair, Warclaws are big, fragile and lack the ability to be stealthed (unless your hacking) buffed or sped up.

If you see a Warclaw coming to stomp your mates you can dismount the rider and prevent it.

Rangers are good for that, though I'll admit some range weapons do need some serious upgrades in damage, burst and range.. some of them are absolutely pitiful compared to Rangers Longbow which isn't perfect either but Rapid Fire does get the job done on Warclaws a lot of the time.

 

As far as Warclaw changes go there is one I think would be good for counterplay to the mount.

 

Change: Evades to Blocks.

Warclaws evade should be changed from an evade to a short block that activates at the start of the dash and ends at the end of it.

 

Reason: Unblockable Vulnerability.

Self explanitory really, this makes Warclaws easier to dismount and vulnerable to unblockable attacks even when dashing, adding great value to builds and playstyles that focus on Ranged play and unblockable attacks.

Now you can have dedicated Warclaw dismounters in your squad and Warclaws will have a little harder time getting away from you and a lot harder time using cheese stomping tactics.

 

Likewise we also need a moderate duration, unblockable anti mount trap, something that deals 9k dmg to warclaws and 1 damage to players, instantly dismounting them and trapping them in combat so they can't mount up again.

This alone would be a boon to both small and large groups that can use it to bottleneck corridors, gates and bridges, set up defensive anti warclaw lines to stop stomping attempts and stage ambushes among other tactics.

 

Those two changes combined I think would be great counterplay to the Warclaw and would probably even justify a few small buffs to the Mount.. like improving Sniff as I said in my post above.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

undo the warclaw nerfs. kthxbye.

 

Only Xv1 gankers complain about warclaw, because it makes it a bit harder for them to catch an isolated player.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> undo the warclaw nerfs. kthxbye.

>

> Only Xv1 gankers complain about warclaw, because it makes it a bit harder for them to catch an isolated player.

 

1000000% this. Warclaw was amazing fun.it has been severely overnerfed due to forum QQers who either could not or refused to adapt to the new meta.

[Sovereign.1093]

I want char cycle model. God tier looking :3

[Doug.4930]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Doug.4930" said:

> > Mount stomp is cheesy and really shouldn't be a thing, but sometimes its the only way to deal with the vastly overpowered downstate. In a 3v5 fight its sometimes just impossible for 3 players to cleave a 4 man rez. It takes all their skill and cooldowns to not only survive the 5 attacking them, but to also outplay and down one of them, only for downstate to swoop in and ensure the better players can't win because 4 players rezing an ally is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations. Sometimes in situations like this when one of our enemies who outnumber us greatly gets low, one of us gets out of combat and mounts up, so that we can instantly double down one of our opponents before they can abuse downstate. Because as stated above in a 3v5 thats quite often the only way you're going to get a double down.

> >

>

> That's an interesting perspective, since from what I usually see, it is the larger group that has the people to spare to ride into a fight and stomp those in downed state. And since the Warclaw has 9k health and is CC immune, a warclaw mounted player going for the stomp, as you say "is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations".

>

> So from my perspective, downed state + warclaw stomp BOTH favour the larger group, and regardless of whatever dreams you have of either downed state or the warclaw ever being removed from the game (hint: highly unlikely to ever happen), let's instead talk about what we have now, and how to make the best of it..and by removing the stomp, we remove one additional advantage the larger group (or the group whose reinforcements show up first) receives.

>

> And it isn't about downed state being a 'crutch'. I hardly ever get revived or rally - if I go into downed state, 9/10 times I'm defeated. My issue is that short of another mounted player using a lance, there is nothing to stop a player from riding into the lords room, and leaping into a sea of red circles to finish off 3 downed players, and then likely dodge roll out to safety. Stomps should be worked for or cleaved down. You want to come stomp my team mate, you better load up on stability, blocks or invis, and at least we can try to intercept and prevent it. The warclaw circumvents all that.

>

> Arguments can be made about revives being too quick, etc etc, that's a different topic. We're talking about the mount stomp, and all it does is give more power to those with larger numbers, and promotes a cheesy tactic of players waiting in the corridor on their mounts..unlike the clutch tactic you described which at least demonstrates some strategic thinking.

>

>

You bring up some good points, but I would add that unlike downstate mount stomp has the potential to be used in a way that can on some occasions benefit the smaller group. Sure you're right more often than not the larger groups gets more out of mount stomp, but the potential for small groups to take advantage of it in some instances is there. Downstate however will always be a hindrance when fighting outnumbered. In no situation does the smaller force gain a tactical advantage from downstate being balanced the way it is now.

 

> That's an interesting perspective, since from what I usually see, it is the larger group that has the people to spare to ride into a fight and stomp those in downed state. And since the Warclaw has 9k health and is CC immune, a warclaw mounted player going for the stomp, as you say "is basically a tactic with no thought, no counter and extremely little risk in 99% of situations".

 

The thing you need to consider in situations like this however is are these players circling on mounts doing more good or harm to a fight? For instance If Im duo roaming and fighting 4 people, I'd prefer it if 2 players turning up to the fight stayed on their mounts looking for a cheesey mount stomp instead of dismounting and turning a 2v4 into a 2v6. If one of us goes down in a 2v4 its usually gg anyway. One player can't out revive a 4 person cleave. So the 2 players circling on the mounts are a moot point. They simply bring about the inevitable double down a bit more quickly than they would have regardless. So quite often if you're fighting outnumbered going into downstate is usually a death sentence anyway, sure the mount stomp makes it even easier, but in my experience the only time mount stomp has screwed me is when an ally is already down in an even numbered fight and they happen to rock up at the most inopportune moment.

 

> So from my perspective, downed state + warclaw stomp BOTH favour the larger group, and regardless of whatever dreams you have of either downed state or the warclaw ever being removed from the game (hint: highly unlikely to ever happen), let's instead talk about what we have now, and how to make the best of it..and by removing the stomp, we remove one additional advantage the larger group (or the group whose reinforcements show up first) receives.

 

I still hold out hope hahaha. I don't think removing downstate is possible (that dream is dead), however I still hold out hope that Anet will finally balance downstate. And like I explained above I am able to find situations where having mount stomp has enabled me to win fighting outnumbered that, because of downstate would have been impossible otherwise. As also mentioned above, I find when fighting outnumbered going into downstate is gg anyway, and the mount stomp doesn't really change the outcome.

 

> Arguments can be made about revives being too quick, etc etc, that's a different topic. We're talking about the mount stomp, and all it does is give more power to those with larger numbers, and promotes a cheesy tactic of players waiting in the corridor on their mounts..unlike the clutch tactic you described which at least demonstrates some strategic thinking.

 

The topics are interrelated. The only reason mount stomp benefits me on occasions is because of downstate. You can't dismiss the broken state (heh) of downstate when discussing a mechanic that can be used to completely nullify it, and whether it has a place in the game or not.

 

 

I completely agree mount stomp is cheesey, has no counter and is extremely low risk. I would just really enjoy its removal being coincided with a rework of downstate, because removing a mechanic no matter how brain dead that has the ability to counter downstate will only further exacerbate how broken downstate is, and takes away strategies in which smaller groups are able to outplay AND win outnumbered fights. As it stands In 99% of instances, the smaller group can consistently outplay the larger by continuously downing their opponents, but due to downstate's balance they will never achieve the victory they deserve.

 

TL;DR

Yea its super long and too much to summarize, so you're probably just better off not reading my garbage.

[Xenash.1245]

Rather just have the warclaw removed from WvW since it's only aided in making the zerging problem we have with the game mode even worse.