somewhere deep in a thread of discussion, he said

[Mitsen.3247]

> @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> None of that would "fix" GW2. That would just add to the problems of the game.

>

> The only way to **fix** GW2, is get a new engine. GW2 is running off a modified version of the GW1 engine. Needless to say, the engine can't handle GW2.

 

I totally agree with this proposal.

when the news mmos will be out there with the strong engines, arenanet must be to have taken care of it...

But if not interested themselves (ncsoft) about that, or they do it skillfully very sparse updates .... and let the game dying slowly because they want release a new mmo for pc out there(tl project maybe??)

or they want any profits and they dont care about gw2?

or they want stay at mobile games ??

......its their problem!

Βut the big heads has been left(from arenanet), after that i dont know if the next period for the gw2 , will be great like 2-3 years before, until today.

But stay behind young people-programmers with eager to work.

If this eager didnt stop on fashionwars2 and continue in pure programming, maybe the game have many years life.

And if they ll making something good, personally maybe support it.

[Dawdler.8521]

What new MMOs with "strong engines"?

[xWiroo.3841]

give up, this wont happen. Its way more likely that we see a gw3 than gw2 being ported to a new engine, if they were working on a new engine it would be for gw3 i think.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

So you’re saying that it’s feasible to take one game built on an old engine with all its programming designed for and around that engine’s limitations and coding interactions and put it in a new engine?

[Headhunter.4796]

At work, my colleagues are recoding a product we had for 4 years now. They have been working on the recode for 2 years now. You don’t want to know how MUCH work it is to redo something from scratch that you’ve been patching/ updating in the old form for months, let alone YEARS.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Headhunter.4796" said:

> At work, my colleagues are recoding a product we had for 4 years now. They have been working on the recode for 2 years now. You don’t want to know how MUCH work it is to redo something from scratch that you’ve been patching/ updating in the old form for months, let alone YEARS.

 

I dont think anyone seriously thinks that upgrading an engine substantially to fix systemic issues with it or make it flat out better is easy or not time consuming. Im sure your colleagues knew that going in yet they still went ahead with it indicating that the pros as worth the effort required.

 

I think the pros of future proofing gw2 are worth the effort.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Same post as OP's years ago after Colin left. Same post years ago after anything of note happens, or doesn't happen.

Always, the game is dying, or the game will die if 'x' doesn't happen, or because 'x' did happen.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> So you’re saying that it’s feasible to take one game built on an old engine with all its programming designed for and around that engine’s limitations and coding interactions and put it in a new engine?

 

I mean, yeah. It is. It takes time (A LOT of time), but it is completely possible. Plenty of companies have done it before, and still do it. In order to get with the times, you got to upgrade.

 

@OP, why turn my quote into a new thread when you posted the same exact response in the other thread already? Not necessary when we already have an existing discussion going on.

[Mitsen.3247]

> @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > So you’re saying that it’s feasible to take one game built on an old engine with all its programming designed for and around that engine’s limitations and coding interactions and put it in a new engine?

>

> I mean, yeah. It is. It takes time (A LOT of time), but it is completely possible. Plenty of companies have done it before, and still do it. In order to get with the times, you got to upgrade.

>

> @OP, why turn my quote into a new thread when you posted the same exact response in the other thread already? Not necessary when we already have an existing discussion going on.

 

Your suggestion was good, so that a new thread can be started.

I personally think that everything can get a remarkable upgrade and i mean the engine of guild wars2 .

But if they remain, in the same recipe (fashion and bla bla)cultural time is lost and all this time this was happening, they did not know that they would reach this point?

Τhey deliberately abandoned them.

Αnd if they continue with this logic, the results will not be as expected( or they will be?).

Μy thought what is?

The linux never abandoned, but it was always upgradeable in newer versions

Same the windows, ios...

what do i mean by that?

Τhe manufacturers of computer operations, they did not abandon their acquisition, but continues and works on the same basis(but the windows are building on closed code, and we don't know exactly how they worκ), and they creating a newer on the same old base.

Τhat's why they had an impact, over time.

Ιf you offer love and time, you will receive a specific price in depth of time but it wants the proportional patience.

If you give transient solutions, you will receive evanescent acceptance.

Make the dessert great again..

Or leave it , and we will do the same !

Are not mathematics

 

 

 

 

 

[Algreg.3629]

You do not get it apparently, no matter how many threads you open on the same topic. This game runs on a very old, handcrafted engine. It is not as easy as updating from an established standard engine to the next version, but probably a complete re-write. And the costs and difficulties of that will probably outweigh any expected income projected for the rest of the game's lifespan. Your rambling pretty much reveals you have little knowledge of what you are talking about, now stop opening new threads about it. PS: Linux is mostly a community driven project. And Windows' very business model is creating new versions and selling them.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Not only that, but the Devs are often commenting on how they are adding new tech to the engine; allowing them to do things they weren't able to do before.

Thus, the engine is being updated.

[Mitsen.3247]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> You do not get it apparently, no matter how many threads you open on the same topic. This game runs on a very old, handcrafted engine. It is not as easy as updating from an established standard engine to the next version, but probably a complete re-write. And the costs and difficulties of that will probably outweigh any expected income projected for the rest of the game's lifespan. Your rambling pretty much reveals you have little knowledge of what you are talking about, now stop opening new threads about it.

 

Windows start up from windows nt and today they evolved to win 10.

Linux and ios the same.

But gw2 engine cant evolved, because is your opinion?

instead of washing the dishes...dont stay like that :)

 

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Mitsen.3247" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > You do not get it apparently, no matter how many threads you open on the same topic. This game runs on a very old, handcrafted engine. It is not as easy as updating from an established standard engine to the next version, but probably a complete re-write. And the costs and difficulties of that will probably outweigh any expected income projected for the rest of the game's lifespan. Your rambling pretty much reveals you have little knowledge of what you are talking about, now stop opening new threads about it.

>

> Windows start up from windows nt and today they evolved to win 10.

> Linux and ios the same.

> But gw2 engine cant evolved, because is your opinion?

> instead of washing the dishes...dont stay like that :)

>

 

No. Windows has evolved, but it's been constantly reworked from the same base. Going from this engine to (insert other engine here) would involve completely redoing the whole game. At that point, it becomes cheaper to just develop a new game, instead of turning an existing game into a new game. Then there's the cost of licensing a new engine. EA has it made, they can use their "in house" engine across the board, it's how DA Inquisition got access to it's engine. EA owns both the company that develops the engine, and BioWare, so "in house". NCSoft/ANet don't have that luxury.

[Mitsen.3247]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Mitsen.3247" said:

> > > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > > You do not get it apparently, no matter how many threads you open on the same topic. This game runs on a very old, handcrafted engine. It is not as easy as updating from an established standard engine to the next version, but probably a complete re-write. And the costs and difficulties of that will probably outweigh any expected income projected for the rest of the game's lifespan. Your rambling pretty much reveals you have little knowledge of what you are talking about, now stop opening new threads about it.

> >

> > Windows start up from windows nt and today they evolved to win 10.

> > Linux and ios the same.

> > But gw2 engine cant evolved, because is your opinion?

> > instead of washing the dishes...dont stay like that :)

> >

>

> No. Windows has evolved, but it's been constantly reworked from the same base. Going from this engine to (insert other engine here) would involve completely redoing the whole game. At that point, it becomes cheaper to just develop a new game, instead of turning an existing game into a new game. Then there's the cost of licensing a new engine. EA has it made, they can use their "in house" engine across the board, it's how DA Inquisition got access to it's engine. EA owns both the company that develops the engine, and BioWare, so "in house". NCSoft/ANet don't have that luxury.

 

If they evovle the old engine, will be better!

Without cost, but needs time.

With slowly steps, they can upgrade it, but i dont know if they are available

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > So you’re saying that it’s feasible to take one game built on an old engine with all its programming designed for and around that engine’s limitations and coding interactions and put it in a new engine?

>

> I mean, yeah. It is. It takes time (A LOT of time), but it is completely possible. Plenty of companies have done it before, and still do it. In order to get with the times, you got to upgrade.

So, i guess you would be perfectly fine with them dropping most of the work they still do for GW2 for 2-4 years, so they could work on that new engine?

[Daria Morgendorffer.7049]

This game frankly looks really good and performs very well compared to other MMOs. I'm surprised it takes a 50+, dense, AoE-spamming stack at Tequatl to slow down frames and add slight skill delays, and the overloaded particle and special effects in costumes (while not my style) constantly surprise me. I think I've even seen skins that have legit mirror effects?

 

The ease with which the game renders these heavy effects and very picturesque environments always stands out to me, but I don't know what we're comparing it to

[lokh.2695]

> @"Mitsen.3247" said:

> Without cost, but needs time.

 

When you run a company, time is money. Shows what you know about it ;)

 

 

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > So you’re saying that it’s feasible to take one game built on an old engine with all its programming designed for and around that engine’s limitations and coding interactions and put it in a new engine?

> >

> > I mean, yeah. It is. It takes time (A LOT of time), but it is completely possible. Plenty of companies have done it before, and still do it. In order to get with the times, you got to upgrade.

> So, i guess you would be perfectly fine with them dropping most of the work they still do for GW2 for 2-4 years, so they could work on that new engine?

 

Anet has already said they have different teams for different things. Not everyone is going to go hands-on for a new engine. The content will still come while another team works on upgrading. This is how all companies work. You assign different groups to different projects.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, is there a team that isn't doing anything right now? Just being paid to wait for a project like creating a new engine?

If not, then something would be lost if a team of Devs started such work, no? I mean, if one watches Guild Chat with any sort of regularity, then one hears about/from the Devs that create new tech for/from the engine quite often.

[Lumikki.1725]

I don't see any issue in current game engine. Game looks just fine and fps isn't that bad even with alot of players.

 

I don't mean that it could not be change in newer one. But if You compare this games to many other mmorpgs, then in my opinion this is pretty good one. Also some newer stuff use like DX12, aren't really good if you have little older system. I'm allways favoring something new and improvements. In my opinion focus should be more improving gameplay and content, than some game engine change. If GW3 will come in someday, then that's totally other situation.

[maddoctor.2738]

Arenanet already has an engine team, so when they work (because they do) on the engine they don't prevent the rest of the game from functioning or cause any delays. After all the engine team isn't responsible for creating assets, maps, story or voice overs. That said, all this talk about needing to re-write the engine from scratch is not true. A game engine consists of many different things what they need to upgrade is a very specific part of the engine, the renderer, the part of the engine that actually renders things. In a lot of the game engines you can even pick and choose the renderer, like choosing between OpenGL or DirectX or DirectX11 and DirectX12 and so on.

 

The game's content is created only once, the textures, music, sounds, voice overs, maps and so on are mostly identical between the two versions, with the only exceptions being the materials, shaders and lights as those can depend on the renderer, but the more advanced renderer can be made to account for older ones. Guild Wars 2 already has two renderering options, perhaps not full complete renderers but still different enough, one for the core game and heart of thorns and another for content after Draconis Mons (if I'm not mistaken that's when they upgraded the visuals) and then used in Path of Fire and onward.

 

So far they've chosen to use clever tricks to mask the inefficiency of the engine, instead of implementing the features needed, and that's probably because the engine team isn't large to begin with. How long can tricks help is anyone's guess

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Arenanet already has an engine team, so when they work (because they do) on the engine they don't prevent the rest of the game from functioning or cause any delays. After all the engine team isn't responsible for creating assets, maps, story or voice overs. That said, all this talk about needing to re-write the engine from scratch is not true. A game engine consists of many different things what they need to upgrade is a very specific part of the engine, the renderer, the part of the engine that actually renders things. In a lot of the game engines you can even pick and choose the renderer, like choosing between OpenGL or DirectX or DirectX11 and DirectX12 and so on.

>

> The game's content is created only once, the textures, music, sounds, voice overs, maps and so on are mostly identical between the two versions, with the only exceptions being the materials, shaders and lights as those can depend on the renderer, but the more advanced renderer can be made to account for older ones. Guild Wars 2 already has two renderering options, perhaps not full complete renderers but still different enough, one for the core game and heart of thorns and another for content after Draconis Mons (if I'm not mistaken that's when they upgraded the visuals) and then used in Path of Fire and onward.

>

> So far they've chosen to use clever tricks to mask the inefficiency of the engine, instead of implementing the features needed, and that's probably because the engine team isn't large to begin with. How long can tricks help is anyone's guess

You are talking about strict dx12 change. I was talking about the changes needed to actually improve performance, and those would go way beyond renderer. It's non-rendering stuff (like dependency on single main thread) that create bottlenecks. Those would need to be rewritten. And since they lie at the core of the engine, yes, it does mean that the engine as a whole would need to be rewritten as well.

 

Yes, lot of assets could be reused (although that creates its own set of problems - read a bit about FFXIV's problems coming from carrying a "technical debt" coming from reusing stuff from 1.0), but some probably would still need to be recreated (especially if they wanted to introduce some other changes to the engine, beyond simply efficiency improvements, as that would be the best, if not only, moment to fix a lot of design problems with the current engine).

 

All in all, it's still a lot of work for a much bigger team than the one that's probably currently working on small engine tweaks. And while they might be doing it in the background, it would actually extend the time needed a lot, because they'd need to keep checking and verifying how the changes to the main game happening at the time woud impact their work (and vice versa).

 

Remember, how it took them a lot of time to bring back SAB (and Queen's Pavillon), because they needed to adjust this content to the engine changes that took place in that time? The same would happen to the _whole game_ - but to a much bigger degree, because the engine changes would also be much greater.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > Arenanet already has an engine team, so when they work (because they do) on the engine they don't prevent the rest of the game from functioning or cause any delays. After all the engine team isn't responsible for creating assets, maps, story or voice overs. That said, all this talk about needing to re-write the engine from scratch is not true. A game engine consists of many different things what they need to upgrade is a very specific part of the engine, the renderer, the part of the engine that actually renders things. In a lot of the game engines you can even pick and choose the renderer, like choosing between OpenGL or DirectX or DirectX11 and DirectX12 and so on.

> >

> > The game's content is created only once, the textures, music, sounds, voice overs, maps and so on are mostly identical between the two versions, with the only exceptions being the materials, shaders and lights as those can depend on the renderer, but the more advanced renderer can be made to account for older ones. Guild Wars 2 already has two renderering options, perhaps not full complete renderers but still different enough, one for the core game and heart of thorns and another for content after Draconis Mons (if I'm not mistaken that's when they upgraded the visuals) and then used in Path of Fire and onward.

> >

> > So far they've chosen to use clever tricks to mask the inefficiency of the engine, instead of implementing the features needed, and that's probably because the engine team isn't large to begin with. How long can tricks help is anyone's guess

> You are talking about strict dx12 change. I was talking about the changes needed to actually improve performance, and those would go way beyond renderer. It's non-rendering stuff (like dependency on single main thread) that create bottlenecks. Those would need to be rewritten. And since they lie at the core of the engine, yes, it does mean that the engine as a whole would need to be rewritten as well.

 

Yes because the main problem with performance is the main thread which is separate from the renderer. For example dx12pxy allows GW2 to use DirectX12 calls instead of DirectX9 and it does offer some performance improvements. It doesn't solve the main problem with the game's performance, as easily seen in CPU-intensive areas where one of the Cores is pushed to the limit, dx12pxy does almost nothing. But any performance gains should be a desirable goal I think. And it's not that they can't switch their rendering to DirectX 12 but rather they don't want to as that would cause the minimum requirements to sky rocket.

 

They are ALREADY dealing with 2 rendering systems, as the same outfit/dye combination might look slightly different (or in some cases, NOT slightly at all) if you look at a pre Draconis Mons map and a post Draconis Mons map. I'm sure since the armors, outfits, mounts, dyes etc are built to look good on both "systems" it would save Anet time if they implemented the Draconis Mons changes to the rest of the game, and it should be perfectly possible considering there is tons of overlapping assets already. So the reasons they aren't doing that, and reasons for not adding a better more advanced rendering solution, isn't about the manpower or the ability. Perhaps their data shows that a load of players are still using very very old hardware and they don't even want to upset owners of the CORE game (by implementing latest engine changes there) let alone a more advanced system.

 

> Remember, how it took them a lot of time to bring back SAB (and Queen's Pavillon), because they needed to adjust this content to the engine changes that took place in that time? The same would happen to the _whole game_ - but to a much bigger degree, because the engine changes would also be much greater.

 

Which is exactly why at this point I want a better rendering solution, which won't solve the core issue maybe, but at least help in many situations, especially with players that have state of the art machines. Instead of a completely new engine. I really doubt SAB "broke" due to rendering changes, because they made other changes to the game engine too, most notably, how you jump (to include Gliding) and also many mechanics like revamped daily system, guild decorations system, zone reward systems, many things that changed could've affected SAB and required extra work to re-implement/fix, none of which have much to do with actual rendering.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Unless you give a good enough reason to need a new engine, like GW2's reason of wanting vertical movement and traveling, then it won't happen.

[Aeolus.3615]

is this a UNREAL5 engine hype?

 

Wont happen...