WvW Scourge nerf

[Josiah.2967]

I just had to laugh. Surely this hotfix was an error that will get hotfixed.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"aaron.7850" said:

> > Necros have been topping the damage meters in wvw for years. In many cases, by 300% to 400% the amount, dwarfing all other classes considerably with their god-tier Scourge build.

> >

> > Welcome to being balanced, enjoy your stay.

>

> Did you play the game for the last year? Cause that's not the case. Eles and revs were doing much more damage than scourges.

>

> If a rev was below the damage of a scourge in a zergfight, you could tell, that he either resetted or is a bad player.

 

Did you played staff elem last year ? Cast-time/delay and roots everywhere. Meteor shower deals 6k at very best per hit. Won't talk about lava font, or pyroclastic blast, plasma blast, lightning surge and others, reflected most the time. In an open field with mobile zergs, you're pretty useless

The only reason it is top DPS, sometimes, it's becaue you hit a lot of random targets in a period but you don't (you shouldn't) have the same ease, the same "precision", than scourge.

 

But we can also ask : Did you see a lot of weaver staff dps lasts months ? May be one for 21 scourges and 7 heralds ?

It's the worst DPS spec for WvW ; no sustain, no buff for allies, roots and cast-time everywhere and in final random DPS.

[Anchoku.8142]

We could also stop playing the game. Honestly, I am more ticked off by the way they described a haircut and gave a decapitation. If I did that to a customer, I would be looking for a job the next day.

 

How could the early patch notes and release notes be so far from their intent if they were not lying?

[Crazy.6029]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> We could also stop playing the game. Honestly, I am more ticked off by the way they described a haircut and gave a decapitation. If I did that to a customer, I would be looking for a job the next day.

>

> How could the early patch notes and release notes be so far from their intent if they were not lying?

 

I can tell you how, they caved to the whiners. That's about it.

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

Yeah, it goes to show how badly the balance team is managing balance for the different game modes. The original change was for PVE, now they overcompensated for the shade buff that happened to basically make a GM trait and shades worthless.

 

Sand savant is worthless right now, maybe it was a mistake or not. maybe 3 for small shades and 4 for Sand Savant would not totally make Shade skills pointless too, since you take that or Feed from Corruption in GM. Small shades should be at least 3 targets and the other shade skills without Sand Savant.

 

At least Wells aren't useless, even though they are back to their usual Cooldowns. I'll be looking forward to their WvW stream tommorow night.

 

> @"aaron.7850" said:

> Necros have been topping the damage meters in wvw for years. In many cases, by 300% to 400% the amount, dwarfing all other classes considerably with their god-tier Scourge build.

>

> Welcome to being balanced, enjoy your stay.

 

Except Herald, Weaver's or even DPS scrappers can do much more damage if played correctly.

[RisenHowl.2419]

Scourge isn't worth using in wvw anymore, you'd be better off on a core necro or reaper that can still hit 5 targets lol

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Nice bait and switch with the wells. Wow.

[gavyne.6847]

Lower targets per shade also mean less corrupts going out, less barriers going out to friendlies, it's not just dps where scourges are hit. They shaved too much and unfortunately scourges will lose out on that meta spot. Scourges were not meta because they topped dps, they were meta because they provided barriers, topped corrupts, and they had a good spike damage. Top of the meters belonged to weavers, bomb kit scrappers, burnguards, and heralds. Now they provide less barriers, less corrupts, and less damage in just 1 day.

 

I'm ok with shaking things up, but I'm not a fan of making a class unwanted in just 1 day just because Anet made a boo boo and overtuned the class that no one asked them to touch. Shows you Anet devs do not test things in WvW, and clearly shows you some of the posters that just had to respond don't really know what they're talking about.

[scerevisiae.1972]

As a necro main i think the changes are pretty fair, though i think sand savant should be 3 targets, not 2.

 

Base radius around the necro IMO should be 210 or 240 not 180.

 

Otherwise i'm ok with the changes.

[scerevisiae.1972]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

 

scourges have been the #1 played class in WVW ever since POF released. Do you even see rangers in zergs?

 

note: i play scourge and i'm totally ok with these changes, though IMHO sand savant should be 3 targets not 2. Well CD revert is totally reasonable as well, though i would have preferred to keep a CD reduction trait.

[Bright Oblivion.2856]

So, here's what really frustrates me:

 

When they wrote the patch notes, someone at least thought about the wells in WvW and PvP enough to make separate reductions for their cooldowns. A day later, these reductions, which they specifically made in WvW and PvP, are removed. Additionally, they remove the well trait in the name of it generally not being competitive enough to be chosen, and then they do _this_ to Sand Savant a day later. Now it has double the normal shade cooldown of normal shade and hits a maximum of four targets (two at the shade and two around you), as opposed to the maximum of 8 (3 shades at 2 targets each, plus 2 around you) of normal shade. The trait is not just not-super-competitive - It's actively detrimental.

 

I mean, I know "Arenanet not communicating with their players" is kind of a meme at this point. But this makes it seem almost like they don't even communicate with each other, and gives their players whiplash as a result. It's really not a pleasant feeling.

[Vegeta.2563]

> @"aaron.7850" said:

> Necros have been topping the damage meters in wvw for years. In many cases, by 300% to 400% the amount, dwarfing all other classes considerably with their god-tier Scourge build.

>

> Welcome to being balanced, enjoy your stay.

 

Hammer Herald????????

[Mil.3562]

1. Wells CD reductions (bait in disguise)

2. Two Shades trigger (bait in disguise)

3. Replace Vampiric Rituals with Blood Bank (intended nerf)

4. Non-Necro community whines and cries (baits are working)

5. Revert back Wells CD time (gotcha!)

6. Nerf Shades targets to worse than before patch (intended nerf)

 

Nerf Team : High Fives !!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> This patch just shows so much ignorance.

>

> Before this patch, you actually had a good balance of classes in zergs:

>

> Eles were hard to play but did 2-3times more damage than a necro

> Revs were kinda easy to play and did 1,3-1,5times more damage than necro.

>

> Then they nerfed scourge, less targets but lower well cooldowns. and now it's only half the number of targets with also higher wells cooldowns?

>

> This might lead to 2 changes in wvw meta:

> 1. Stack even more scourges because there's still a kitten ton of boonspam and you have to counter that

> 2. Remove necro's from squads and take only revs. They do a lot more (spike)damage and give a lot of valuable boons.

>

> There's some other scenarios, bit I think those two are the likeliest.

>

> Can we finally get a patch that makes scourge pure support?

 

You do realize that you cant stack revs and eles and getting away with it?

 

Revs dont have range pressure, they cant hold an enemy zerg at bay after the first CoR Wave.

 

Literally wait for the Cor Wave and run it.

 

And whats ele going to do? They dont have instant cast dmg on staff. = Just run in and kill them.

 

If the use any other weapon, just outrange them.

 

Scourge can be stacked without problem into high heaven and they only get stonger.

 

 

Also your dmg numbers are a bit over exaggerated.

 

Because both ele and rev need to use berserker gear for the high numbers and they can only do that inside a zerg full of meatshields(scourge).

 

Good scourges will continue to play it but the gigantic number of bad ones will play the next OP class.

 

Wait... there is no class as OP as Scourge was.

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"aaron.7850" said:

> > > Necros have been topping the damage meters in wvw for years. In many cases, by 300% to 400% the amount, dwarfing all other classes considerably with their god-tier Scourge build.

> > >

> > > Welcome to being balanced, enjoy your stay.

> >

> > Did you play the game for the last year? Cause that's not the case. Eles and revs were doing much more damage than scourges.

> >

> > If a rev was below the damage of a scourge in a zergfight, you could tell, that he either resetted or is a bad player.

>

> Did you played staff elem last year ? Cast-time/delay and roots everywhere. Meteor shower deals 6k at very best per hit. Won't talk about lava font, or pyroclastic blast, plasma blast, lightning surge and others, reflected most the time. In an open field with mobile zergs, you're pretty useless

> The only reason it is top DPS, sometimes, it's becaue you hit a lot of random targets in a period but you don't (you shouldn't) have the same ease, the same "precision", than scourge.

>

> But we can also ask : Did you see a lot of weaver staff dps lasts months ? May be one for 21 scourges and 7 heralds ?

> It's the worst DPS spec for WvW ; no sustain, no buff for allies, roots and cast-time everywhere and in final random DPS.

 

Yes I agree. There's not a lot of staff weavers, and most of them aren't very good, but there's some very good weavers I met that were constantly top damage in literally every fight so...

[Dami.5046]

sick and tried of them 'listening' to the few.

lol I necro main in wvw and still can't believe 'mains' are happy with any class nerf.

 

lies.

 

[anduriell.6280]

Well i don't know why to add the Pbaoe shade (self aoe) and then do this... Necro was good before this patch.

Still the dominant class in WvW.

[nullixin.9462]

Okay, real question; did Meteor Shower back then have ever been scaled down/split out damage-wise depending on how many enemies were hit? For example, 1 enemy 100%, 2 enemies 66%, 3 enemies 50%, and so forth?

If that had ever happened (or if that was ever coded correctly), what do you all think if shades work like that? I know conditions might be tricky, or maybe guardian's Scepter 2 where it's RNG single target?

[PeLi.5498]

The "hotfix" and them are ridiculous. Thats all

[anduriell.6280]

That's the problem when your devs do not know or like the game. Everything seems to push the game to play it as an semi-afk farming bot in PvE.

And there is the explanation of why there is so very little chat activity or decreasing earnings each FQ.

[lare.5129]

this is only "Well"'s nerf. Some people on necro not use them at all. So it nerft some necro biuld. Don't see any point to be happy or sad.

[Black Storm.6974]

I hope they will at least add 1 target increase to Sand Savant and remove from it the 100% cooldown increase on Manifest Sand Shade.

Right now Sand Savant (grandmaster trait) seems like one of those gambits we can put on a character when playing in the Queen’s Gauntlet.

[Giotto.2607]

let me tell you a joke, an aoe skill hit 2. A single target skill hit 3.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"nullixin.9462" said:

> Okay, real question; did Meteor Shower back then have ever been scaled down/split out damage-wise depending on how many enemies were hit? For example, 1 enemy 100%, 2 enemies 66%, 3 enemies 50%, and so forth?

> If that had ever happened (or if that was ever coded correctly), what do you all think if shades work like that? I know conditions might be tricky, or maybe guardian's Scepter 2 where it's RNG single target?

 

It's outright bad and won't help, MS was balanced around PvE with no regard to PvP or WvW

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"nullixin.9462" said:

> Okay, real question; did Meteor Shower back then have ever been scaled down/split out damage-wise depending on how many enemies were hit? For example, 1 enemy 100%, 2 enemies 66%, 3 enemies 50%, and so forth?

> If that had ever happened (or if that was ever coded correctly), what do you all think if shades work like that? I know conditions might be tricky, or maybe guardian's Scepter 2 where it's RNG single target?

 

Sounds good to me: split number of corruptions and damage between targets. However, from Arenanet's perspective, that is a new mechanic for Scourge and, therefore, harder than changing the number of targets. Easy way wins.