Thief desperately needs looking at

[LaFurion.3167]

There are a few issues that "need looking at", but as I have recently spent a lot of time on my thief I feel that it needs some love, in all game modes.

 

 

1) pvp - thief, an "assassin class", supposedly meant for 1v1 has been forced into a mobility and +1 role for years. We cant fight toe to toe with other classes (some of which have decent mobility themselves) in a PVP GAME MODE without being a considerable disadvantage for our team. I feel this needs to change. Especially dead eye rifle, where you have to give up mobility to use the weapon mechanic where it means certain death vs any player that knows how to avoid the hugely telegraphed stealth attack.

 

 

 

2) wvw thief desperately needs love. The pongo stick dd build is the only one that is decent to run in zerg groups. Venomshare theif? What is that?? Roaming? Oh wait holo or soulbeast are tankier does more damage has more boons, survivability, range, etc. Atm all we can do is cheese with one shot deadeye

 

 

3) pve thief damage desperately needs bluffs. Our damage is so lacking. Sword in pve is a joke and we have ZERO viable condi options for pve that is actually decent. Other specs push numbers that we cant even come close to. We are supposed to be an assassin class, yet my backstab crits for 20k maaaaaaybe in a perfect scenario while a warrior axe 5 does 70k damage.

 

 

It's just my own opinion, but I would love it it thief got some love to have a proper "place" in the game modes

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> There are a few issues that "need looking at", but as I have recently spent a lot of time on my thief I feel that it needs some love, in all game modes.

>

>

> 1) pvp - thief, an "assassin class", supposedly meant for 1v1 has been forced into a mobility and +1 role for years. We cant fight toe to toe with other classes (some of which have decent mobility themselves) in a PVP GAME MODE without being a considerable disadvantage for our team. I feel this needs to change. Especially dead eye rifle, where you have to give up mobility to use the weapon mechanic where it means certain death vs any player that knows how to avoid the hugely telegraphed stealth attack.

>

>

>

> 2) wvw thief desperately needs love. The pongo stick dd build is the only one that is decent to run in zerg groups. Venomshare theif? What is that?? Roaming? Oh wait holo or soulbeast are tankier does more damage has more boons, survivability, range, etc. Atm all we can do is cheese with one shot deadeye

>

>

> 3) pve thief damage desperately needs bluffs. Our damage is so lacking. Sword in pve is a joke and we have ZERO viable condi options for pve that is actually decent. Other specs push numbers that we cant even come close to. We are supposed to be an assassin class, yet my backstab crits for 20k maaaaaaybe in a perfect scenario while a warrior axe 5 does 70k damage.

>

>

> It's just my own opinion, but I would love it it thief got some love to have a proper "place" in the game modes

 

Lol the devs can't balance a basic class like warrior properly, u think they could balance thief? Cmon man we all know they'd end up making thief worse in the end.

[Crab Fear.1624]

NERF TEEF MOARER!!!

[Taril.8619]

Given that the last patch showed that ANet's response to underperforming things is to nerf them, it's probably best to keep the attention **AWAY** from Thief...

 

 

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

Yea i really wish they made rifle thief pvp competetive :-(

[Fueki.4753]

If you want substantially more damage on Thief, they need to looks an equally substantial part of their runaway potential.

Having a profession that deals damage equal to the currently heavy-hitting sitting ducks, while also being able to safely run away (like Thieves do now) should not be allowed to exist.

But then again, it sounds like a thing Arenanet would like to implement.

[kash.9213]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> If you want substantially more damage on Thief, they need to looks an equally substantial part of their runaway potential.

> Having a profession that deals damage equal to the currently heavy-hitting sitting ducks, while also being able to safely run away (like Thieves do now) should not be allowed to exist.

> **But then again, it sounds like a thing Arenanet would like to implement.**

 

Except they haven't and have moved more towards the opposite of what you're claming, so it doesn't sound like something Arenanet would like to implement. You're also intentionally or not overselling thief's mobility compared to thief damage and you don't even take into account the cost compared to the output.

[Sylari.9814]

>

> Having a profession that deals damage equal to the currently heavy-hitting sitting ducks, while also being able to safely run away (like Thieves do now) should not be allowed to exist.

> But then again, it sounds like a thing Arenanet would like to implement.

 

There's something weird about reading a post like this from someone who has a Mesmer icon. I remember some of my first experiences in WvW were just getting downed from full health only to have a mesmer appear nearby and use a finisher.

 

[KidRoleplay.3615]

For PvE only, revert the dagger nerfs that happened way back when, buff sword damage, and revert Deadly Ambition to its previous functionality (and non-reduced poison stacks). ... Problem solved.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> If you want substantially more damage on Thief, they need to looks an equally substantial part of their runaway potential.

> Having a profession that deals damage equal to the currently heavy-hitting sitting ducks, while also being able to safely run away (like Thieves do now) should not be allowed to exist.

> But then again, it sounds like a thing Arenanet would like to implement.

 

If you are going to touch thief's runaway ability, you better start considering giving them other defenses. Thief's defensive mechanics are evasion and fleeing. Stealth doesn't provide that much defense except for people who have absolutely no clue how to handle it.

[Kolsyrad.2807]

Thief needs buffs in PvE?

 

*Cries in Necromancer :'( *

[KidRoleplay.3615]

> @"Kolsyrad.2807" said:

> Thief needs buffs in PvE?

>

> *Cries in Necromancer :'( *

 

Would un-nerf Epidemic so they could get that niche back.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > If you want substantially more damage on Thief, they need to looks an equally substantial part of their runaway potential.

> > Having a profession that deals damage equal to the currently heavy-hitting sitting ducks, while also being able to safely run away (like Thieves do now) should not be allowed to exist.

> > **But then again, it sounds like a thing Arenanet would like to implement.**

>

> Except they haven't and have moved more towards the opposite of what you're claming, so it doesn't sound like something Arenanet would like to implement. You're also intentionally or not overselling thief's mobility compared to thief damage and you don't even take into account the cost compared to the output.

 

And then you have things like Holosmith with mobility and damage.

If Thief suddenly turned Arenanet's love child, they would increase its damage massive without scratching its runaway potential.

It's just a matter of Arenanet not liking certain professions at this point.

 

[aleron.1438]

I wouldn't advocate for me damage on rifle deadeye in PvP WvW.

 

But I would like a revert on the boon denial nerfs of the Big Balance Patch.

 

Bountiful Theft, Rending Shade, Binding Shadow should all strip/steal respectively one more like they used to.

 

Shadow Gust should also strip one boon with a priority for stability.

[Shiyo.3578]

1) We are scouts, not assassins. However, if you play deadeye and go rifle + sword/dagger you should be able to be a more effective assassin. Shortbow + X = scout. Deadeye + rifle + sword/dagger = assassin. imo.

Basically what I'm saying is deadeye DPS builds should be SLIGHTLY buffed so we can have the assassin role.

 

2) Stealth needs to not stack or be hard nerfed in WvW, then venoms should be buffed to give us party support and daredevil should be a better bruiser with staff only. Staff should be our zerg weapon.

 

3) PvE thief damage not being #1 is unacceptable, agreed. Sword should receive 20% more auto-attack damage and at least 20% more damage on tactical strike, lac strike, flanking strike, and pistol whip. We bring ZERO utility so we should be the top DPS by far in PvE. D/D should always be the top single target DPS in PvE alongside rifle as they both do single target damage only.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Basically what I'm saying is deadeye DPS builds should be SLIGHTLY buffed so we can have the assassin role.

DE already has maximum range.

DE already has the runaway potential base Thieves have.

DE has stronger Stealth potential than base Thieves.

 

And you want them to have decent damage on top of that?

 

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > Basically what I'm saying is deadeye DPS builds should be SLIGHTLY buffed so we can have the assassin role.

> DE already has maximum range.

> DE already has the runaway potential base Thieves have.

> DE has stronger Stealth potential than base Thieves.

>

> And you want them to have decent damage on top of that?

>

 

speaking in terms of PvE atleast, for rifle (as what shiyo is pertaining to for assassin roles), range doesn't mean a thing when the whole raid/party stacks near or at melee range together all because of how buffs and heals work.

 

kneeling in melee range is okay (and a must for group content) but doing mechanics when you self-root yourself is asking for trouble especially for newer DE players.

 

stealth doesn't mean much and is only used for skipping/cheesing things in the environment

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > Basically what I'm saying is deadeye DPS builds should be SLIGHTLY buffed so we can have the assassin role.

> DE already has maximum range.

> DE already has the runaway potential base Thieves have.

> DE has stronger Stealth potential than base Thieves.

>

> And you want them to have decent damage on top of that?

>

Range is only relevant in WvW zergs, as you can just LOS most of the time in SPvP. But projectile reflect counters you in WvW zergs.

If you can play rifle + dagger or sword, you give up short bow 5.

Dagger or sword + SB daredevil/base thief = "Scout" = Trade damage for mobility.

Rifle + sword or dagger Deadeye = "Assassin" = Trade mobility for damage.

Staff + Staff daredevil = "Bralwer" = Trade mobility and damage for sustain. I have no idea how to do this one, though. You'd have to somehow design a trait in staff to force staff + staff and not allow you do use shortbow + staff without gimping your sustain/damage heavily.

Stealth should be globally nerfed.

[Yasai.3549]

Blame Thief's core mechanic.

 

Because they aren't like conventional Professions governed by cooldowns, their individual weaponskills are significantly weaker than other Professions.

They can dish out rapid strikes, but these strikes don't hurt as much as they used to from before the massive nerfs.

 

Thief has ceased to be an assassin anyway for a really long time.

For the longest time they have been all about running their opponents down through extreme mobility and exhausting their opponent's cooldowns before going in for an easy kill.

 

All those cheese 1 shot backstab encounters were long gone since 2 years ago, and anyone still falling prey to that are extremely new to how Thief works.