Let's talk about Staff Weaver in WvW..

[solemn.9608]

I see that a significant amount of players on the Ele and WvW sub-forums seem to have given up on staff elementalist in WvW. The general attitude is that it isn't worth playing or isn't very effective. I would really like to know why anyone would think this when it still outperforms every other DPS build in WvW, and has been for several years now, _and_ just got a huge sustain buff via the retaliation damage nerf, since 70-80% of the damage you will take as a Staff Weaver is _retaliation_ alone, if you're doing it right and not out of position.

 

The recent changes to the fire trait-line are also discrete buffs - if your group comp can provide you with even a reasonable amount of might you will still out-dps everyone by taking Persisting Flames. Yes we've seen a few nerfs here and there over the years and the usual doom-and-gloomers come to the forums to say how Weaver has been ruined, and yet, it still tops the charts nearly every time. Competitive guilds give me a run for my money, I reallllly have to watch my meteor placements if I want that top dps with & vs those groups, but it's still easy enough to do with a little patience and prediction / commander-sense.

 

There is nothing more unforgiving or rewarding than staff weaver. This isn't mere bias. Any group I've run staff weaver for consistently learns to appreciate what it brings to the table, and quickly. There is no ego stroking in that statement. I am promoting the build, not myself. Few builds compare to it's raw AOE damage and any that do are still outperformed by it.

 

...But "DPS isn't the only thing that matters, it's also about group support etc ..."

Staff Weaver has several very good multi-target CC skills which are extremely easy to fit into the DPS rotation. As for group support, this isn't a group support build, never has been, never will be, and it never needed or will need to be. This build generates downs and then kills them. BETTER than ANY OTHER build in WvW does. If you're willing to argue that staff weaver isn't useful because all it does is DPS, then you may as well forget about ever using a dragon banner again in the future - and next time you're cleaved down by a dragon banner, just remember that """"dps is useless"""".

 

Now realize that Staff Weaver is basically just a permanent dragon banner. And if it isn't, you're using the wrong build or the wrong rotation.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZlFw8YUsI2JO8KbvNA-zVRYBRV5tYoQFSTFRghQFZitXgA2AvFrOjA-w

[Vrath.1754]

> @"solemn.9608" said:

> I see that a significant amount of players on the Ele and WvW sub-forums seem to have given up on staff elementalist in WvW. The general attitude is that it isn't worth playing or isn't very effective. I would really like to know why anyone would think this when it still outperforms every other DPS build in WvW, and has been for several years now, _and_ just got a huge sustain buff via the retaliation damage nerf, since 70-80% of the damage you will take as a Staff Weaver is _retaliation_ alone, if you're doing it right and not out of position.

>

> The recent changes to the fire trait-line are also discrete buffs - if your group comp can provide you with even a reasonable amount of might you will still out-dps everyone by taking Persisting Flames. Yes we've seen a few nerfs here and there over the years and the usual doom-and-gloomers come to the forums to say how Weaver has been ruined, and yet, it still tops the charts nearly every time. Competitive guilds give me a run for my money, I reallllly have to watch my meteor placements if I want that top dps with & vs those groups, but it's still easy enough to do with a little patience and prediction / commander-sense.

>

> There is nothing more unforgiving or rewarding than staff weaver. This isn't mere bias. Any group I've run staff weaver for consistently learns to appreciate what it brings to the table, and quickly. There **is no ego stroking in that statement**. I am promoting the build, not myself. Few builds compare to it's raw AOE damage and any that do are still outperformed by it.

>

> ...But "DPS isn't the only thing that matters, it's also about group support etc ..."

> Staff Weaver has several very good multi-target CC skills which are extremely easy to fit into the DPS rotation. As for group support, this isn't a group support build, never has been, never will be, and it never needed or will need to be. This build generates downs and then kills them. BETTER than ANY OTHER build in WvW does. If you're willing to argue that staff weaver isn't useful because all it does is DPS, then you may as well forget about ever using a dragon banner again in the future - and next time you're cleaved down by a dragon banner, just remember that """"dps is useless"""".

>

> Now realize that Staff Weaver is basically just a permanent dragon banner. And if it isn't, you're using the wrong build or the wrong rotation.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZlFw8YUsI2JO8KbvNA-zVRYBRV5tYoQFSTFRghQFZitXgA2AvFrOjA-w

 

Isnt that what your entire post is? Similar to the discussion in the WvW forums about staff weaver, where someone posted their 100% crit build its devolved a bit into that as well.

 

Are you looking for discussion or just to tickle your pickle? ;)

[solemn.9608]

> @"Vrath.1754" said:

> Isnt that what your entire post is? Similar to the discussion in the WvW forums about staff weaver, where someone posted their 100% crit build its devolved a bit into that as well.

>

> Are you looking for discussion or just to tickle your pickle? ;)

 

I've been interpreted as doing that before, so I can't blame you for wondering, but no I sincerely want to either:

 

1) bring light to the incredible utility of having a staff DPS weaver in your WvW group comps and encourage more elementalists to try it

or

2) have someone attempt to change my mind about it DEFINITELY being part of the WvW meta, even though it is not often recognized as such

 

edit: but I don't see how my entire post is ego-stroking. I think posts like these can comes off as ego-stroking because some builds genuinely require a lot of practice to be efficient with and even talking about it tends to trigger people for some reason. No ego here my dude. Genuinely trying to help people realize that this build is verrrry effective. I wish I saw more folks playing it. I apologize if my post rubbed you the wrong way, I seriously just want to see more staff weavers in WvW.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"solemn.9608" said:

> > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > Isnt that what your entire post is? Similar to the discussion in the WvW forums about staff weaver, where someone posted their 100% crit build its devolved a bit into that as well.

> >

> > Are you looking for discussion or just to tickle your pickle? ;)

>

> I've been interpreted as doing that before, so I can't blame you for wondering, but no I sincerely want to either:

>

> 1) bring light to the incredible utility of having a staff DPS weaver in your WvW group comps and encourage more elementalists to try it

> or

> 2) have someone attempt to change my mind about it DEFINITELY being part of the WvW meta, even though it is not often recognized as such

>

> edit: but I don't see how my entire post is ego-stroking. I think posts like these can comes off as ego-stroking because some builds genuinely require a lot of practice to be efficient with and even talking about it tends to trigger people for some reason. No ego here my dude. Genuinely trying to help people realize that this build is verrrry effective. I wish I saw more folks playing it. I apologize if my post rubbed you the wrong way, I seriously just want to see more staff weavers in WvW.

 

I am simply tired of putting effort into a game where people are free to play professions/builds that require little to none brain activity; furthermore the "retaliation spam" was hardly the issue.....it's the absurd **barrier spam** that led me to fully realize the pointlessness of playing ele in this game. Some people have fun by putting huge effort for same or lower reward...I don't anymore, my shortest answer

[MarzAttakz.9608]

Still playing mine but built a little more defensively in stats (200+ ping here). I'm usually one of no more than 3 - 5 elementalists in a full squad which is kinda sad. Still the number one target for gank thieves, still die tremendously fast if I over-push, get focused or am caught out of position. Still loving it though, it's the class that comes most naturally to me.

 

Do we have issues?

 

Yes, overall we do. Does staff need to be brought into 2020, for sure. Do our utilities need a rework? Absolutely! Does FGS need a cooldown reduction? Hell yeah. But I'm okay with the extra effort, can't bring myself to dump the class.

 

That said I do find myself switching to Tempest quite frequently in smaller adhoc type groups, extra support vs the extra dps makes a big difference, just wish our shouts could get the Firebrand mantra treatment rather, and Weaver lost the extra attunement swap time (test Weaver with Arcane and the flow is so much more natural if you're an old skool ele).

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

I've been playing my newly created staff weaver in large wvw groups and pve. I love playing it and seeing all th be numbers pop without having to be in melee range. I'm having fun with it! Tho i die super easily and i haven't even switched my soldiers trinkets to marauder yet. But so still fun. I personally would like to see either one of 2 things to help:

1) adjust most staff skills to be 1500 range. So it's even with DE rifle and slightly further than all other classes

OR

2) increase the effectiveness of its utility skills. Make the offensive ones a little more powerful and the defensive ones last longer (longer blocks, evades, apply vigor, etc)

 

Id also like to see more access to might. Maybe make fire skill 2 give 2 attacks of might for 6 seconds, stuff like that. Nothing crazy though.

[Auburner.6945]

The February patch was the nail in the coffin for me. Yeah, the class can outdps if played well, but I can really just roll a Herald/Scourge; deal meta damage too and bring in utility on demand (which could be a fraction of a second from winning) any Weaver dreams of while still being a DPS, top dps is just a number, especially when it's mostly an overkill. Before we had a squad with like 10 Weavers and annihilated other zergs, now that number of Weavers is a meme if rolled. The class as a DPS is even more intolerable for small scales.

 

The utility is meh, the pace of the weapon was rewarded before such patch, too many projectiles, too many animations, the nerf to Twist of Fate was a big KEKW (was done because of sword weaver, for which an entire spec suffers for such build). Playing too much AuraTempest didn't even do it; it doesn't have the same pace that of a Staff Weaver.

 

Is the class/build playable? yes, it clearly is... but at least for me, it no longer feels like putting in any time for what it has to offer except its pace.

 

That's a brief view of what's been stripped off the class the past year, it's fun and won't really tell anyone that this build doesn't exist in WvW because as a Support babysitting a Weaver defending SM, I can tell the DPS it dishes out, but that's just it.

 

However, it still is great to know that someone is enjoying/to enjoy such fun build.

[solemn.9608]

> @"Auburner.6945" said:

> The February patch was the nail in the coffin for me. Yeah, the class can outdps if played well, but I can really just roll a Herald/Scourge; deal meta damage too and bring in utility on demand (which could be a fraction of a second from winning) any Weaver dreams of while still being a DPS, top dps is just a number, especially when it's mostly an overkill. Before we had a squad with like 10 Weavers and annihilated other zergs, now that number of Weavers is a meme if rolled. The class as a DPS is even more intolerable for small scales.

>

> The utility is meh, the pace of the weapon was rewarded before such patch, too many projectiles, too many animations, the nerf to Twist of Fate was a big KEKW (was done because of sword weaver, for which an entire spec suffers for such build). Playing too much AuraTempest didn't even do it; it doesn't have the same pace that of a Staff Weaver.

>

> Is the class/build playable? yes, it clearly is... but at least for me, it no longer feels like putting in any time for what it has to offer except its pace.

>

> That's a brief view of what's been stripped off the class the past year, it's fun and won't really tell anyone that this build doesn't exist in WvW because as a Support babysitting a Weaver defending SM, I can tell the DPS it dishes out, but that's just it.

>

> However, it still is great to know that someone is enjoying/to enjoy such fun build.

 

I understand what you're getting at but "top dps is just a number" is just unbelievable. Play staff weaver right now man, seriously you'll see what I mean, I have been altering the outcomes of entire 30v30 fights just by dropping my bomb in a strategic place at a strategic time. In pug groups I'm getting over 30% DPS, even more if they're bad pugs (yesterday I was 48% in one long fight). Right now if you get that bomb off perfectly you can double-down people ridiculously fast because a single ele's bomb is so much stacked damage in one AOE that without utility revives anyone inside it is not getting res'd and they're down within seconds.

 

Twist of fate feels fine, this is what I refer to when I talk about "the usual doom-and-gloomers on ele forum". Something gets changed and suddenly there is "no reason to play weaver anymore" etc ... ToF feels VERY strong on every build I've used it. In all respect, I have no idea what people are talking about.

 

I know how you feel about babysitting staff weavers lol :'D but an experienced one should be able to self-sustain and use the 2 dodges + burning speed + lightning flash + ToF to survive, it's really not even that hard anymore after the retal nerf.

 

god it's really hard to talk about staff weaver without me sounding like an arrogant neckbeard, I'm sorry. I just think it's really good. That extra DPS it does compared to say herald or scourge is not just a little extra DPS, it's actually quite a lot and it makes a huge difference in the right hands

 

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I am simply tired of putting effort into a game where people are free to play professions/builds that require little to none brain activity; furthermore the "retaliation spam" was hardly the issue.....it's the absurd **barrier spam** that led me to fully realize the pointlessness of playing ele in this game. Some people have fun by putting huge effort for same or lower reward...I don't anymore, my shortest answer

 

Ya fair enough, the barrier spam can be pretty bad, but if you can't damage them through their barrier spam, no one else can either. You have to soften them up with a meteor first and hope that the engage continues for another 20s or so, let everyone else do their DPS too, then on your second meteor drop FGS and do a good burst in air and drop glyph of storms, make sure you have max dmg buffs, then watch them all crumble hopefully.

 

 

[God.2708]

The power of weaver has always lain in the 'concentration' aspect of offensive characteristics. Ultimately DPS is irrelevant, what's important is getting people down, and finishing them (as you've pointed out, albeit with a lot of fluff). Weaver is, still, completely unmatched at this albeit it is locked behind a bit of RNG. There's simply nothing that can compare to two meteors hitting at the same spot with a lava font + fireball + some other AoE tick. It lets a single player put a group's worth of bomb into a single spot on their own.

 

The caveats to this of course are

1. The weaver doing this has to know how to do it, it isn't a necro where you put red circles all over the place with your red circle placing necro or rev friends and carpet downs. It's a (slightly RNG) spike.

2. Since it is a spike that a single player can do, there really is no reason to have more than 1 or 2 per squad. It has its job it does very well, and stacking them sees quickly decreasing efficiency. Lots of weavers in squad results in sitting there fighting each other over downstates to climb the meter, and this combined with

3. They provide little defensive support or sustain, and generally have little qualms about being off tag to take advantage of positioning. So it is not a very good build to 'recommend' to pugs which makes it seem dead even though it's not.

 

The above means that there's little reason to advertise for weavers, but they are indeed still very much a force.

[solemn.9608]

> @"God.2708" said:

>snip

Well, a pug need only run tanky food and a few tanky trinkets to get started, and even then they will still do significantly more DPS than most other builds.

 

One issue may be that I am always seeing first-hand how it disproportionately affects the outcome of a fight compared to other classes/builds, most of the people who would disagree with me are not. It's harder to explain it in words than it is to just know intuitively that it's insanely effective and objectively more valuable.

 

I agree that stacking Weavers in a squad decreases the efficiency (which you pointed out, albeit with quite a bit of fluff [swirls wine in a glass with pinky raised]), because they will all fight for the same territory to create aoe damage, so a maximum of 4 in a hard-carry-pugs scenario or a maximum of 3 in a gvg/hardcore wvw guild scenario seems good IMO but it's arbitrary.

 

I don't mean to bother you with a trivial question but could you explain why DPS is irrelevant? I see people saying this and it makes no sense to me because if DPS was irrelevant we would all play full minstrel. You can't get downs without DPS. DPS is burst damage too, not just damage over time (DoT).

 

I also don't think there is very much RNG to it. The only RNG aspect is crit chance and with group fury + self-fury it's easy to stay around 75-80%. Otherwise I get very consistent results, the only time I don't is when I've made a huge error and I know exactly what I did wrong anyway.

[God.2708]

> @"solemn.9608" said:

> I don't mean to bother you with a trivial question but could you explain why DPS is irrelevant? I see people saying this and it makes no sense to me because if DPS was irrelevant we would all play full minstrel. You can't get downs without DPS. DPS is burst damage too, not just damage over time (DoT).

 

Yes. A good Cabernet Sauvignon. Ahem.

 

Let's see how short I can make this... DPS is irrelevant in the sense that the optimal DPS for a fight is in fact the lowest damage your group can achieve whilst still killing the enemy. Time is technically a irrelevant factor.

 

Since that's a bit loaded. You could achieve a really high DPS if your fight is very short, but generally because of how WvW works some random 1 or 2 people run off and leave you in combat for a while and deteriorate the burst numbers. For a power composition (which weaver belongs in, it has a much tougher time playing in a condi tank comp) the burst periods are much more important, and everyone's burst period happening at a similar time.

 

Weaver is good at topping charts with DPS, but a lot of that is simply from sheer volume of AoEs (and targeting discrepancies since Meteor Shower is one of the only skills that hits more than 5 targets). The STRENGTH of weaver comes from the fact it can concentrate those AoEs into a singular spot and create a burst spike that will devastate a location all by themselves (preferably in combination with some boonstrips or corrupts, but whatever works!).

 

That is to say I'm hesitant to just pass off weaver to any player because they may chill high up there on the DPS meters, but they will on average have lower and more spread 'spikes' on a DoT graph. And the spikes are what win or lose fights. A weaver doing that requires Positioning, Class knowledge, and Timing. A necro or rev has the positioning and timing aspect handled by the commander (usually) so it's simply easier to get into for someone who's inexperienced with how the fight flows.

 

Be interested in seeing a squad formulated around multiple weavers and positioning with them, but I imagine it'd be a return to frontline parties + backline parties as opposed to the general all-in-one ball that gets run right now.

[Arkaile.5604]

> @"solemn.9608" said:

> **I understand what you're getting at but "top dps is just a number" is just unbelievable.** Play staff weaver right now man, seriously you'll see what I mean, I have been altering the outcomes of entire 30v30 fights just by dropping my bomb in a strategic place at a strategic time. In pug groups I'm getting over 30% DPS, even more if they're bad pugs (yesterday I was 48% in one long fight). Right now if you get that bomb off perfectly you can double-down people ridiculously fast because a single ele's bomb is so much stacked damage in one AOE that without utility revives anyone inside it is not getting res'd and they're down within seconds.

>

 

If you can say what I've edited into bold font there, you do not understand what Auburner is getting at, though you do say that barrier can be a problem. The core of this matter is that dps does not matter if those big numbers aren't downing people. A couple days ago a zerg I was part of ran into another group comprised almost entirely of fbs, scourges, and revs, and they simply clumped up and sat in one place, killing anyone who got too close and eating all our aoes without a single one of them getting downed over the course of a few minutes. That blob essentially became a dps golem for anyone who had a ranged weapon and it did no good as the ludicrous amount of barrier and other defenses just ate up the damage, with any damage to hp being healed up.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about with 30v30 fights and being able to turn them as an ele, I did that myself now and then before anet started going extra nuts with the nerfs to staff, but that just isn't possible anymore unless the group you're dealing with has already run out of defensive abilities or they're just that bad and have too many people running full zerker stats. The key skill in doing this is meteor shower, but the changes it has received have enormously front-loaded its damage; if a group can prot, aegis, RotG through the first few meteors, they'll be just fine standing in the middle of it to be pelted with the now weaker hits. Even though the first damaging component of the skill was reduced or outright negated, you'll still see your dps increase just because of all the additional impacts following that, but it won't have any meaningful impact on the outcome of the exchange.

 

Moreover, while staff weaver has a lot of ranged aoes at its disposal, they are all small and don't deal all that much damage unless you stand in them for their full duration. This makes them good for hitting siege and finishing downed targets (this also inflates your dps), but doesn't do much for zerg vs zerg battles when people are constantly moving.

 

All that said, it's good that you love playing the class and, more importantly, you probably play it really well, but it's simply in a bad spot right now and we can't justify that by saying its dps is great under ideal scenarios. It's actually good to require people to be more strategic with their abilities and where/when they're used as opposed to just bursting people on open fields like a scourge, but at the very least it would be nice if ele could bring some unique utility to groups. I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.

[solemn.9608]

> @"God.2708" said:

>snip

 

Interesting take on it. Yes, I appreciate that your criticism is coming from a point of knowledge/experience and you're correct about necro/rev being easier/more reliable to manage across many players, some of which will be better/worse than others etc.

 

In my experience lately weaver has more than enough "off-rotation" (meteor on cooldown, etc) damage though, many people forget that ice spike/eruption/lava font/Lahar (all ground targeting aoes) can rack up significant damage if chained together, and are hard to avoid, in addition to air 2 which is another aoe and won't be reflected, and that fire/water dual attack is actually not bad either although it's slow and can be reflected.

 

Yeah meteor/glyph of storms/FGS 5-3/LF to safety/air 2/fire chain is the best DPS rotation but you got plenty to work with at any other time, and glyph of storms (fire) is a pretty low cooldown.

 

I just can't agree. From personal experience, it's just too good. It's just way too good at what it does and I see it all the time first-hand. The off-burst dps is very good and the burst/focused dps is unparalleled. Yeah you need boonstrips to really capitalize on it but you should have those with any decent group comp.

 

> @"Arkaile.5604" said:

>snip

 

I think I sort of answered this with my reply above ^ but yeah, I understand that having DPS on a meter doesn't mean you're having the largest impact. However, would you agree that at least ~70% (estimate) of the time, it does? I think so. You can even turn off any displayed damage for siege/NPCs etc to be completely sure, even then the issue you described about a zerg turning into a DPS golem exists but nobody should be wasting their bomb in that scenario, everyone should be withholding it anyway, and when they become vulnerable those who were DPS golem'ing will suffer most on the dps meter.

 

I dunno man I've fought enough competent groups as the sole staff weaver in a squad and seen the impact it has even vs competitive groups. I'm obviously biased to believe staff weaver is valuable but yeah, I think it's incredibly useful.

 

edit: I will have a staff dps video soon which may or may not change some of your minds IDK we'll see.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

A build i've been experimenting too for zergs / small group.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAsilFwoYQMP2JOeKqvMA-zVRYBhJGN4yIiEoiCw2DSYUCA-w

The point is to select a target, use dual attacks, fresh air etc, then use unravel + fire + 4 + 3 + 5

You can't play it alone, as you're mid-melee and you need at least >8 mights, quickness is also very useful here and sustain. You won't be top* DPS but you have an insane burst: you find the ennemie commander, dual attacks for example earth/air + fire/earth+ unravel.

I've already done 22k in <2sec with simple rotation against a ministrel FB

Con : it's a bit useless for big zergs: no real aoe, no real dps outside burst, you need to train with scepter, etc. It's better for small squads where you can easily focus one guy with your mates.

Staff is, easier, and certainly more useful in most of situations, but if you want to try something else, and not support tempest; it can be fun.

[Zeesh.7286]

I main staff weaver since I came back in march. I completely agree to the top DPS part.

 

But the thing is, you DON'T need more 2-3 weavers in a full zerg of 50. I'm almost always the only staff weaver in zergs in my squad and sometimes maybe one of 2 in a full squad of 50. Our meteor does nothing in large blob fights until and unless there is significant boonrip/winds popping up. I can deal over a million damage in SMC blobs and not kill anything. IMHO the problem is that weaver staff will never be META even with top DPS. You'll never needs more of them. As someone said, a full comp of necros will sit and eat your damage with barriers and rip apart anything that comes close. It's got little to do with staff and more to do with the way WvW meta is revolving around boons and boonrips.

 

I also feel that its lacklustre in terms of the rewards. Top damage is good but other DPS meta classes can also deal a significant amount of damage while running a easy to play builds which just needs to follow a tag and drop damage when asked. Meanwhile I have to predict enemy blob movements without a commander's help because my meteor and positioning work differently than a blob attacks. Portal bombs are a hit or miss. Lightning flash/burning retreat is a must have and a single fuck up means you're dead way too far from the main squad. I want more reward for pulling off those numbers which require so so so much more skill to play then other DPS classes. I do have impact I always will. If I'm dealing twice or even thrice the damage numbers as the second highest DPS in a zerg, I'm sure as heck doing a dent in the enemy numbers. The issue is that my impact will never be appreciated because it's not meta. Comms and tags will never say "oh hey great job with the meteor". Its always a collective effort and in that effort I'm putting in so so much more than any other dps classes.

[katniss.6735]

The problem with staff weaver is simply that the damage is a lot slower than other rDPS classes. Keeping people in a static, chill field, or earth wall to hit them hard with a meteor shower is extremely unreliable.

[solemn.9608]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> A build i've been experimenting too for zergs / small group.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAsilFwoYQMP2JOeKqvMA-zVRYBhJGN4yIiEoiCw2DSYUCA-w

> The point is to select a target, use dual attacks, fresh air etc, then use unravel + fire + 4 + 3 + 5

> You can't play it alone, as you're mid-melee and you need at least >8 mights, quickness is also very useful here and sustain. You won't be top* DPS but you have an insane burst: you find the ennemie commander, dual attacks for example earth/air + fire/earth+ unravel.

> I've already done 22k in <2sec with simple rotation against a ministrel FB

> Con : it's a bit useless for big zergs: no real aoe, no real dps outside burst, you need to train with scepter, etc. It's better for small squads where you can easily focus one guy with your mates.

> Staff is, easier, and certainly more useful in most of situations, but if you want to try something else, and not support tempest; it can be fun.

 

Interesting, I mess around with an air/water/weaver fresh-air build for mostly just autoattacking folks with air 1 until they die, but that's really neat. Reminds me of a Make Roaming Great Again submission/crazy scepter gank montage I watched last month.

 

> @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> I main staff weaver since I came back in march. I completely agree to the top DPS part.

>

> But the thing is, you DON'T need more 2-3 weavers in a full zerg of 50. I'm almost always the only staff weaver in zergs in my squad and sometimes maybe one of 2 in a full squad of 50. Our meteor does nothing in large blob fights until and unless there is significant boonrip/winds popping up. I can deal over a million damage in SMC blobs and not kill anything. IMHO the problem is that weaver staff will never be META even with top DPS. You'll never needs more of them. As someone said, a full comp of necros will sit and eat your damage with barriers and rip apart anything that comes close. It's got little to do with staff and more to do with the way WvW meta is revolving around boons and boonrips.

>

> I also feel that its lacklustre in terms of the rewards. Top damage is good but other DPS meta classes can also deal a significant amount of damage while running a easy to play builds which just needs to follow a tag and drop damage when asked. Meanwhile I have to predict enemy blob movements without a commander's help because my meteor and positioning work differently than a blob attacks. Portal bombs are a hit or miss. Lightning flash/burning retreat is a must have and a single kitten up means you're dead way too far from the main squad. I want more reward for pulling off those numbers which require so so so much more skill to play then other DPS classes. I do have impact I always will. If I'm dealing twice or even thrice the damage numbers as the second highest DPS in a zerg, I'm sure as heck doing a dent in the enemy numbers. The issue is that my impact will never be appreciated because it's not meta. Comms and tags will never say "oh hey great job with the meteor". Its always a collective effort and in that effort I'm putting in so so much more than any other dps classes.

 

Personally, Staff Weaver feels good because it just feels good - I don't really need recognition, knowing how much weight I'm pulling is enough.

 

I suppose you're right about not needing any more than 3, but I think you could get away with 4 if they coordinated and didn't all blow their bomb at the same time as each-other.

 

What I think a lot of people don't/aren't considering is that every "insignificant dent" you make as a staff weaver is less aegis, more heal skill cooldowns, more stability cooldowns, reflect cooldowns etc on a zerg ... I mean it's no different than standing under heavy arrowcart fire for more than a minute - yeah for the first minute they might be alright, once their healers de-synchronize on cooldowns they start to choke a little bit, at which point the big bomb from the rest of the zerg comes. Weaver is really good for softening up the enemy. I don't think its wasting damage on barrier, I think it's just ... removing barrier. And Weaver can put out some really consistent damage, about 1/4 of their full bomb potential is able to be kept up consistently, which is more than what most classes can do.

 

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Guilds dont run staff weaver. Engi and rev can do the almost same amount of damage and push boons like there is no tomorrow(or stealth) Necros do massive damage AND strips AND corruptions. Ele only has damage - and the difference is too small to matter.

 

Simple as that.

 

In publics some people still do staff weaver. Because there noone really cares.

 

You want staff weaver matter? Nerf engi, rev and necro damage into the ground or buff ele damage by at least 30%. Then you might see it come back.

[Tom Hsiao.9705]

try to roam in wvw with your staff weaver if you think you're so OP lol!

you will melt so fast before you know it and you'll realize why people are complaining

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> Guilds dont run staff weaver. Engi and rev can do the almost same amount of damage and push boons like there is no tomorrow(or stealth) Necros do massive damage AND strips AND corruptions. Ele only has damage - and the difference is too small to matter.

>

> Simple as that.

>

> In publics some people still do staff weaver. Because there noone really cares.

>

> You want staff weaver matter? Nerf engi, rev and necro damage into the ground or buff ele damage by at least 30%. Then you might see it come back.

 

I would also add to that list: reversing some dumb changes like Sprinkle Shower -10%dmg on every hit per target or changes to Persisting Flames/Pyromancer's Puissance or whatever. The 30% buff won't do much if enemy can cough aegis or protection or jalis elite every few seconds...

[Zeesh.7286]

> Personally, Staff Weaver feels good because it just feels good - I don't really need recognition, knowing how much weight I'm pulling is enough.

>

> I suppose you're right about not needing any more than 3, but I think you could get away with 4 if they coordinated and didn't all blow their bomb at the same time as each-other.

>

> What I think a lot of people don't/aren't considering is that every "insignificant dent" you make as a staff weaver is less aegis, more heal skill cooldowns, more stability cooldowns, reflect cooldowns etc on a zerg ... I mean it's no different than standing under heavy arrowcart fire for more than a minute - yeah for the first minute they might be alright, once their healers de-synchronize on cooldowns they start to choke a little bit, at which point the big bomb from the rest of the zerg comes. Weaver is really good for softening up the enemy. I don't think its wasting damage on barrier, I think it's just ... removing barrier. And Weaver can put out some really consistent damage, about 1/4 of their full bomb potential is able to be kept up consistently, which is more than what most classes can do.

>

>

>

 

I loved this video and it made me enter WvW immediately but sadly no zergs were happening lol

 

I still find the "role" that Staff weavers play is not really 'Meta' like it's not going to be the Most efficient tactic available so long as we stay in the boon/boon rip meta with the blob formation tactics which favor certain playstyles and classes. Although I personally think a simple change in Meteor will definitely make having 2-4 staff weavers meta in full 50 squads. The problem is the -10% sort of makes it a bit a lackluster right now even though that one meteor + a winds or boon rip is enough to flatten most blobs. But even then I don't know whether squads and Tags will actually start asking people to switch to staff weavers. Like even now we do SO MUCH damage compared to other classes. Here's a snap I took from someone's stream in which I was running with the DPS meter. The damage numbers are nothing to scoff at. (I don't stream or record and this is the only snap I could take from his stream which isn't up anymore :/ )

View post on imgur.com

 

Sadly you'll most probably need to make a guild vs guild tournament where one guild has 4-5 staff weavers and it ends out winning to change the community mindset and make the class Meta. Until then it will continue to remain a 'good' addition to zergs but not Meta..

 

[steki.1478]

I don't know why people keep bringing "no one runs weaver in gvg hence it's bad" arguments. Gvg and blob metas have nothing to do with each other. Build and skills that work in one can be irrelevant in the other, which is the case with staff ele. It requires lots of enemies in order to be effective since it relies on long channels and big aoes. Fewer people to deal with = less damage done because they can all juke it easily (no one's lagging behind) = ele is less reliable so you don't use it. That's why you could see melee builds like daredevil and berserker or even condi builds like herald (which are usually worthless in blobs) in gvg metas because their damage is reliable when you're in melee range (which you are since every fight starts with stealth, which is a pretty good counter to staff ele since it needs to precast its stuff).

[Arheundel.6451]

Short story short :

 

1- Staff Weaver can deal very good damage

2- The build is extremely squishy

3- It is actually challenging to use

4- There are other builds in game doing nearly as much damage while being easier and way more tanky

 

End result - **There is nothing here to justify how squishy the build is**, we need more bang for the buck , right now there is certainly the buck...not the bang, not nearly enough , why going out running the risk of being killed by a gust of wind...while dealing "just" dmg?

[mikdepadua.8376]

I actually just stopped playing gw2 entirely because 1) roaming is dead and 2) elementalists are not worth using.

 

I only play wizards/mages in MMOs and i find it weird that the wizard class in this game is just a healbot/aurabot.

[solemn.9608]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> Guilds dont run staff weaver. Engi and rev can do the almost same amount of damage and push boons like there is no tomorrow(or stealth) Necros do massive damage AND strips AND corruptions. Ele only has damage - and the difference is too small to matter.

>

> Simple as that.

>

> In publics some people still do staff weaver. Because there noone really cares.

>

> You want staff weaver matter? Nerf engi, rev and necro damage into the ground or buff ele damage by at least 30%. Then you might see it come back.

 

Understandable outlook. Yet...

Anyone who thinks Staff Weaver can't top engi/rev damage by at least a margin of 10-20% in almost every scenario simply isn't paying attention, or just hasn't been around enough competent staff weavers. I can list at least a few players who are worth comparing your damage to, although I'm not sure if they all play these days. Most of the time when you're just barely out-dps'ed or if you actually manage to out-dps a staff weaver in squad it's because they made a serious error.

 

If you think 10-20% isn't a lot of damage, just try taking off your scholar rune + one DPS trait and tell me how that goes... 10-20% more damage is the difference between winning a fight because you can actually down things through barrier/boons with brute force, and losing because of everyone clutching to the "accepted meta/standard"

 

Nothing wrong with just adding one or two staff weavers to your comp of 30-50, no?

 

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> Short story short :

>

> 1- Staff Weaver can deal very good damage

> 2- The build is extremely squishy

> 3- It is actually challenging to use

> 4- There are other builds in game doing nearly as much damage while being easier and way more tanky

>

> End result - **There is nothing here to justify how squishy the build is**, we need more bang for the buck , right now there is certainly the buck...not the bang, not nearly enough , why going out running the risk of being killed by a gust of wind...while dealing "just" dmg?

 

Again, this is an understandable view, because it's a commonplace view, but from personal experience it just doesn't matter. It's justified by the results it gives. It is challenging to use, which is why a lot of people don't know what it looks like when you actually do it correctly and get seriously meta damage out of it.

 

-----

edit: also, what Steki said is extremely relevant. If you're asking if I'd recommend staff weavers for a 20v20 ... the answer is no more than one on each side.