Obtena.7952 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ovark.2514" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe what 'you' want, but you still haven't dismissed, answered, reasoned or disproved my post. The OP is clearly directing his focus towards Lightning Rod, not so much that he's stun locked. So why don't you tell the OP what you really mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play." since that's just super vague of a comment, give us some examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > Examples of strategy to beat stunlock? Sure ... don't run around solo. > > > > > > > > > > :lol: I said examples, as in more than one, but that's the sort of response I expected tbh since it seems like you're blowing smoke up people's chimney . What's to say you won't get stunlocked in a teamfight, then what other strategy do you have? :# > > > > > > > > If you get stunlocked in a team fight, you are less likely to die than 1 vs. 1. Look, I'm not selling you a guarenteed way to not be killed from stunlock here. I don't know what examples you want to see ... I've PVPed plenty of times in teams where I got stunlocked and didn't die. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've PVPed solo where I got stunlocked and it was a done deal for me. Draw your own conclusions; if you don't think grouping discourages stunlocks ... then don't. My experience suggests otherwise. > > > > > > Then know what the heck you're spewing/typing before posting if you can't even give 'good' examples of what you mean. > > > > I do know what I'm typing ... dying from being stunlocked is significantly reduced when you don't run around solo. My examples are the same as anyone elses ... not running around solo. > > > > Apparently not if you can't even go in depth with your initial post's claim ... That doesn't make sense ... my experience in this has nothing to do with the 'depth' of my post. What I'm saying isn't any more or less true because of the 'depth' ... But hey, do or don't believe me. No skin off my back if someone stubbornly flat our refuses advice because the 'depth of the post' doesn't satisfy them. If the 'depth' of the original complaint is any indication, mine should be more than satisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ovark.2514" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe what 'you' want, but you still haven't dismissed, answered, reasoned or disproved my post. The OP is clearly directing his focus towards Lightning Rod, not so much that he's stun locked. So why don't you tell the OP what you really mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play." since that's just super vague of a comment, give us some examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Examples of strategy to beat stunlock? Sure ... don't run around solo. > > > > > > > > > > > > :lol: I said examples, as in more than one, but that's the sort of response I expected tbh since it seems like you're blowing smoke up people's chimney . What's to say you won't get stunlocked in a teamfight, then what other strategy do you have? :# > > > > > > > > > > If you get stunlocked in a team fight, you are less likely to die than 1 vs. 1. Look, I'm not selling you a guarenteed way to not be killed from stunlock here. I don't know what examples you want to see ... I've PVPed plenty of times in teams where I got stunlocked and didn't die. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've PVPed solo where I got stunlocked and it was a done deal for me. Draw your own conclusions; if you don't think grouping discourages stunlocks ... then don't. My experience suggests otherwise. > > > > > > > > Then know what the heck you're spewing/typing before posting if you can't even give 'good' examples of what you mean. > > > > > > I do know what I'm typing ... dying from being stunlocked is significantly reduced when you don't run around solo. My examples are the same as anyone elses ... not running around solo. > > > > > > > Apparently not if you can't even go in depth with your initial post's claim ... > > That doesn't make sense ... my experience in this has nothing to do with the 'depth' of my post. But hey, do or don't believe it. No skin off my back if someone stubbornly flat our refuses advice because the 'depth of the post' doesn't satisfy them. That's why I said know what the heck you're talking about before you post. Not my fault you can't comprehend your own text and blowing smoke up people's chimney, Asked you to give examples of what you mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play". Your response "Don't run solo because stunlocked 1v1 gets me killed in my experience". I Respond applying that same logic to teamfights . Your response is believe what you want to believe, i die less in teamfights when i get stunlocked compared to 1v1s ,I don't know what examples to give you. You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge :4head:" I never wanted your advice, I asked for your reasoning/going deeper to better elaborate your post . The other thing is you know the original topic at hand is about traits like Lightning Rod, lightning rod is the source of the complaint, and again goes against Anet's new balance philosophy. Otherwise this thread probably wouldn't have existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used. > > > > I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing. > > Best moments I recall playing GW2 were in 2013 playing D/D thief into hammer warriors. > Absolutely everything was telegraphed with clear visibility and almost no studying effects bars for random auras/abilities/minor trait passives/etc. such that **the wins felt like you properly outplayed your opponent.** > > We have so much ability bloat and combat effect obfuscation today it's just crazy. Tack on the insane armor/infusion particle effects disco and it's hard to tell sometimes whether or not people are casting skills at all. Exactly. Imagine what the game would feel like today if only these classes/builds were permissible and in play: 1. Warrior Berserker Spellbreaker 2. Guardian DH - Power variants only, with burns as small attrition 3. Herald Power Shiro only 4. Scrapper & Holos with no Flashbang - Power variants only 5. Thief Daredevil Deadeye - Power variants only 6. Ranger Druid Soulbeast - Power variants only 7. Mesmer Chrono Mirage - Power variants only 8. Ele Tempest Weaver - Condi amulets can be allowed here, but Shocking Aura Share and Lightning Rod need to go or be seriously nerfed 9. Necro Reaper Scourge - Condi is of course fine here because that's what the class mainly revolves around ^ When you really consider that, and look over that list. It's apparent that the problems of why the game feels bad right now is almost entirely inside of 2x things: 1) Too much passive CC. 2) The way condi was implemented in this game, condi dominant metas ALWAYS make for terrible play dynamic in any patching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrownyClown.8402 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 There are abilities that provide your team with stability that are not run because of the CD and the ability to get it ripped or corrupted. Countering stability is much easier than countering cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ovark.2514" said: > > > I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet? > > > > Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception. > > Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all, what you're looking for is player awareness, because it's the same sort of gameplay people complained about when Full Counter actually did damage or eating any sort of cc. Since people want to stick to the whole new Anet Balance philosophy why is CC allowed to do damage via Lightning Rod? Lightning Rod should be gutted to apply a big stack of vuln and weakness, and do double digit damage since everything else does. Even though the better fix here would be to just rework shocking aura to apply stacks of vulnerability, do a small hit of damage when it procs( On a 1s ICD per unique target) and remove the stun since that's a problematic part of Lightning Rod interaction. So make it garbage. You described fire aura for Eles. An aura that gives meaningless amount of might and burn to a class that has the lowest base health. The only reason fire aura is even considered is because of the cleanses from a good trait. If you take the stun away, then they are just gonna bake it into a trait that says something like: when you swap into air attune gain shock aura and when it is active it stuns for x seconds with an x Cooldown. Is that what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ovark.2514" said: > > > > I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet? > > > > > > Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception. > > > > Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all, what you're looking for is player awareness, because it's the same sort of gameplay people complained about when Full Counter actually did damage or eating any sort of cc. Since people want to stick to the whole new Anet Balance philosophy why is CC allowed to do damage via Lightning Rod? Lightning Rod should be gutted to apply a big stack of vuln and weakness, and do double digit damage since everything else does. Even though the better fix here would be to just rework shocking aura to apply stacks of vulnerability, do a small hit of damage when it procs( On a 1s ICD per unique target) and remove the stun since that's a problematic part of Lightning Rod interaction. > > So make it garbage. You described fire aura for Eles. An aura that gives meaningless amount of might and burn to a class that has the lowest base health. The only reason fire aura is even considered is because of the cleanses from a good trait. If you take the stun away, then they are just gonna bake it into a trait that says something like: when you swap into air attune gain shock aura and when it is active it stuns for x seconds with an x Cooldown. > > Is that what you want? It's a pick your poison scenario. It hasn't stopped anet from making everything garbage for everyone else? You either touch Lightning Rod, or you touch shocking aura, since the interaction between those two is a big part of what makes it so problematic. The other option would be to undo or actually change that dumb update to their balance mindset that cc is for cc and nothing else, and let other classes with CC abilities have their damage back. Which is what we should all want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn.6593 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 In general ... I only have a problem if classes don't have the **potential** amount of defences that can match the **potential** amount of offences of another class. But if potentially I can trait stability and stun break and blocks to the equivalent of their CC, but it's at the sacrifice of condi cleanse. Then that tells me I need to avoid enemies with good condi damage and only engage with power/cc because that's what I've built for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used. > > > > > > I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing. > > > > Best moments I recall playing GW2 were in 2013 playing D/D thief into hammer warriors. > > Absolutely everything was telegraphed with clear visibility and almost no studying effects bars for random auras/abilities/minor trait passives/etc. such that **the wins felt like you properly outplayed your opponent.** > > > > We have so much ability bloat and combat effect obfuscation today it's just crazy. Tack on the insane armor/infusion particle effects disco and it's hard to tell sometimes whether or not people are casting skills at all. > > Exactly. > > Imagine what the game would feel like today if only these classes/builds were permissible and in play: > > 1. Warrior Berserker Spellbreaker > 2. Guardian DH - Power variants only, with burns as small attrition > 3. Herald Power Shiro only > 4. Scrapper & Holos with no Flashbang - Power variants only > 5. Thief Daredevil Deadeye - Power variants only > 6. Ranger Druid Soulbeast - Power variants only > 7. Mesmer Chrono Mirage - Power variants only > 8. Ele Tempest Weaver - Condi amulets can be allowed here, but Shocking Aura Share and Lightning Rod need to go or be seriously nerfed > 9. Necro Reaper Scourge - Condi is of course fine here because that's what the class mainly revolves around > > ^ When you really consider that, and look over that list. It's apparent that the problems of why the game feels bad right now is almost entirely inside of 2x things: 1) Too much passive CC. 2) The way condi was implemented in this game, condi dominant metas ALWAYS make for terrible play dynamic in any patching. The main problem of this game is having devs listening to biased players rant and consider them for real game balance....**have you ever played anything else outside ranger?** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Lightning rod is bad game design but CmC likes it so it's going nowhere. Enjoy 0 condi removal lightning rod weaver being the only power spec for elementalist until cantha I guess. > > At the very least, they could remove the weakness from lightning rod. Apparently everything on ele that represent a **hazard** for carebears is "bad game design"...everything that may prove to be a challenge while fighting an ele is considered ...OP They nerfed FA... They nerfed fire weaver They nerfed focus They nerfed healing They nerfed sword They deleted staff They nerfed a low dmg trait not used since launch till now Even Tempest support is considered OP.....and we're talking about the least represented class atm when most games are like 2-3 necros/engis per side ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used. > > > > > > I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing. > > > > Best moments I recall playing GW2 were in 2013 playing D/D thief into hammer warriors. > > Absolutely everything was telegraphed with clear visibility and almost no studying effects bars for random auras/abilities/minor trait passives/etc. such that **the wins felt like you properly outplayed your opponent.** > > > > We have so much ability bloat and combat effect obfuscation today it's just crazy. Tack on the insane armor/infusion particle effects disco and it's hard to tell sometimes whether or not people are casting skills at all. > > Exactly. > > Imagine what the game would feel like today if only these classes/builds were permissible and in play: > > 1. Warrior Berserker Spellbreaker > 2. Guardian DH - Power variants only, with burns as small attrition > 3. Herald Power Shiro only > 4. Scrapper & Holos with no Flashbang - Power variants only > 5. Thief Daredevil Deadeye - Power variants only > 6. Ranger Druid Soulbeast - Power variants only > 7. Mesmer Chrono Mirage - Power variants only > 8. Ele Tempest Weaver - Condi amulets can be allowed here, but Shocking Aura Share and Lightning Rod need to go or be seriously nerfed > 9. Necro Reaper Scourge - Condi is of course fine here because that's what the class mainly revolves around > > ^ When you really consider that, and look over that list. It's apparent that the problems of why the game feels bad right now is almost entirely inside of 2x things: 1) Too much passive CC. 2) The way condi was implemented in this game, condi dominant metas ALWAYS make for terrible play dynamic in any patching. Most of these power builds are just as problematic as other prominent condition builds. Particularly Soulbeast, Engineer, Thief, and historically, Mesmer's elite specs. Most of these issues are in bad design of the entire classes and weapon skills as the game has progressed more than anything specific to conditions. Condition builds themselves were handled poorly, but the weak ones are particularly weak even when carried by their relatively OP gear. Look to S/S warrior for no better example of how an OG condi build can suck when the rest of the game is so massively powercreeped with instantaneous and sustained power and animations are so fast with so little in the way of prioritization of active defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used. > > > > > > > > I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing. > > > > > > Best moments I recall playing GW2 were in 2013 playing D/D thief into hammer warriors. > > > Absolutely everything was telegraphed with clear visibility and almost no studying effects bars for random auras/abilities/minor trait passives/etc. such that **the wins felt like you properly outplayed your opponent.** > > > > > > We have so much ability bloat and combat effect obfuscation today it's just crazy. Tack on the insane armor/infusion particle effects disco and it's hard to tell sometimes whether or not people are casting skills at all. > > > > Exactly. > > > > Imagine what the game would feel like today if only these classes/builds were permissible and in play: > > > > 1. Warrior Berserker Spellbreaker > > 2. Guardian DH - Power variants only, with burns as small attrition > > 3. Herald Power Shiro only > > 4. Scrapper & Holos with no Flashbang - Power variants only > > 5. Thief Daredevil Deadeye - Power variants only > > 6. Ranger Druid Soulbeast - Power variants only > > 7. Mesmer Chrono Mirage - Power variants only > > 8. Ele Tempest Weaver - Condi amulets can be allowed here, but Shocking Aura Share and Lightning Rod need to go or be seriously nerfed > > 9. Necro Reaper Scourge - Condi is of course fine here because that's what the class mainly revolves around > > > > ^ When you really consider that, and look over that list. It's apparent that the problems of why the game feels bad right now is almost entirely inside of 2x things: 1) Too much passive CC. 2) The way condi was implemented in this game, condi dominant metas ALWAYS make for terrible play dynamic in any patching. > > Most of these power builds are just as problematic as other prominent condition builds. Particularly Soulbeast, Engineer, Thief, and historically, Mesmer's elite specs. Most of these issues are in bad design of the entire classes and weapon skills as the game has progressed more than anything specific to conditions. > > Condition builds themselves were handled poorly, but the weak ones are particularly weak even when carried by their relatively OP gear. Look to S/S warrior for no better example of how an OG condi build can suck when the rest of the game is so massively powercreeped with instantaneous and sustained power and animations are so fast with so little in the way of prioritization of active defenses. No, not at all. Power builds or rather should I say "power based attacks" or even "attack animations" are all based around displaying telegraphs FOR the power based portion of the attack being used. The condition based attacks or condition side of attacks, are always just sort tagged on to it via a trait or utility that was used that makes the next 10 attacks or something deal bleeds. <- THAT is what I'm talking about. So with power based builds or attacks in general, when it comes to dealing only power damage, everything has telegraphs and it makes sense where weaker attacks & CCs have less telegraphs but stronger attacks & CCs have longer telegraphs. But when it comes to conditions, you have garbage going on like Condi Thief spitting massively threatening burst with the same animation frame over and over, a pistol auto. You have various Guardian builds procing high level burn damage with every attack that's used, no special telegraphs. You have a Scourge walking at you doing a small animation of a little wand waving around same animation over and over but you're never really sure what it's doing, while a seemingly never ending cycle of red circles are appearing around it that you're never really sure when it's actually going to use the F skill instants that make those red circles start dealing a lot of damage. ect ect ect. And then upon that, for whatever reason it was that Arenanet did this, condition damage is largely based from weird massively huge AoE attacks & pits that you simply cannot dodge at all because they just don' have tells until after it's cast and then you have to burn through your "oh @#$%" buttons to get out of it. When you stop and think about it and get reasonable while discussing this topic, a few things become clear: 1. Power based attacks have much better designed telegraphs. Playing the game in a power meta makes sense. There is a much finer distinction in power metas between single target strikes and risking using a long telegraph AoE strike. Using large hard hitting AoE attacks like Worldy Impact or Reaper 4 is high risk high reward in a power meta, as it should be. This is why people, all the older veterans, say that power metas definitely feel better to play in. 2. Condis were implemented poorly for all of the reasons I've already described. The telegraphs of condi based attacks are just screwed up and botched man. When playing in a condi heavy meta, everything feels spammy and RNG due to this. There is like little to no distinction on most classes between single strike condi attacks and AoE condi attacks. They all look the same and are often instant if not near instant or even passive traits that just magically make large condi bursts possible on demand without having a clear telegraph. This is why players always say that condi heavy metas feel bad, and that condi builds are easier to play than power builds. Conditions are simply easier to land than power based damage. And since most condition based attacks are randomly enormous AoE pits or pulses, people hate how it make the game a pixel spam toxic waste zone of area that you can't traverse without taking damage. You can jump into a mid fight of power builds and actually dodge all the stuff happening, but you cannot jump into a mid fight and dodge damage from a Burn Guard + Scourge + Fire Weaver. There is too much damage floating around in that 3v3 that actually has absolutey no telegraph at all. I mean we're talking stacks of 15+ of burns torments bleeds that will hit you that has no telegraph at all. And this isn't to mention how condis make you burn through utility skills faster than power damage, due to how most of the important utility skills are condi clears and stun breaks on the same skill. Condi builds with burst, if it lands on you just right, can force many builds to have to blow through all of their CDS for enough clears & stun breaks to even survive the incoming damage & lock up at all. 3. ^ Due to the points made in 2, it becomes quite clear the THE LEAST Arenanet could do about this problem, is make sure that condition builds are NEVER burst oriented in their nature. Condition build should only ever be attrition based. Under no circumstances should a Condition based build ever be able to SURPRISE! land 40+ condis on you with no telegraph that also has a ton CC tied onto it. This is nothing new. People have been reporting how condi dominant metas have been screwing the game up for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. There were plenty of traits and skills that weren't a issue either and they didn't avoid getting hit. Not to mention LR interaction with shocking aura. The damage needs to come down quite a bit and not able to crit. It does plenty enough already with weakness application, if you want something other than weakness, compensate it with big stacks of vulnerability and cripple,and make it a CC focused trait. If LR is allowed to exist in it's current state then I don't see the point of having all CC abilities do no damage. Some contradictory Anet balancing right there. Like I said if you can't even explain your own post and give at least some decent examples to back up what you mean in your post, and that isn't asking much, but apparently it is if you're thinking I need to be drowning in decently explained examples. You're the one that opened that can of worms, which is why I gave you advice to have the decency to know what you're talking about before you post. Like you said "You believe what you want to believe." Just don't get bent out of shape when people request explanation/examples of the meaning and reasoning behind your words, and you're unable to. :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrOtskY.5927 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > Come on man stop trolling people. Everyone knows current philosophy is to separate damage and CC. This doesn't need to be a deep discussion on what we believe Anets balancing teams' secret motivations regarding this trait. Seriously guys stop engaging with this fella he will never ever change his mind or admit he's out of his depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 > @"TrOtskY.5927" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > > > > > > Everyone knows current philosophy is to separate damage and CC. I'm not sure that's completely accurate is it? Here is the latest change to Lightning Rod according to Wiki: April 28, 2020 Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.95 in PvP and WvW. So if their current philosophy is to separate damage and CC, presumably since ... Feb ... and this change is AFTER that, it's reasonable to think that for whatever reason, it's not a problem for Anet that Lightning Rod doing damage. So what's happening here is ... people imposing their own ideas of what the game should be and claiming it's a paradox with Anet's own philosophy that needs to be fixed. That's a pretty self-serving argument. IF Anet was indeed separating CC and DPS ... why would they make the coefficient 0.95 and not 0? I mean you don't think we should have a deep discussion on what we believe Anets balancing teams' secret motivations regarding this trait? That's funny you direct that at me because I'm not the one making a whole argument on it ... he is. You just don't want to talk about it because you know this 'paradox' is intentional and you got some personal problem with me challenging ideas people have. These philosophies are not rules Anet impose on themselves, they are guidelines and for whatever reason, they decided that at least up to April 2020, it was OK that Lightning Rod did some damage. Also, you need to get over me in a hard way ... it's clouding your judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salogel.1869 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 there's actually a patch missing in the wiki for some reason ... at some point after the damage nerf patch the damaged was reduced from 1.5 to 1.2, which is the original value that I believe that has existed since the trait was added sometime before HoT (September 9, 2014 was when it was changed to trigger on CC rather than on interrupt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > Simple, i've already explained it to you in this thread more than once. Anet's 'new' balance philosophy in regards to this thread is about CC being the purpose of CC only, which is also why they nuked stunbreaks and stability in the same patch. I mean the proof is also right there in game, unless you'd like you'd like to explain and go in depth why every CC skill like, Shield Bash, Deflecting Shot, Backbreaker, Kick, Head butt, Throw Boulder, Bulls Rush, Prime Light Beam, Holographic Shockwave, Surge of the Mists, Skull Crack, Dragon's Maw, etc, does like 7 damage. In any PvP format(The Secret: So they apply strike damage and put the CC user in combat.). Asking why Anet would violate it with LR? Also a simple answer, if you've been here for the past 7-8 years, you'd know how incompetent and consistently inconsistent Anet is when it comes to anything balance related, it is their forte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > > > > > > Anet's 'new' balance philosophy in regards to this thread is about CC being the purpose of CC only. OK ... so now explain why they didn't make the coefficient zero when they changed it in April after they adopted that philosophy. > I mean the proof is also right there in game What proof would that be? The fact they didn't remove the damage from LR when they changed it in April? after they adopted the philosophy? Funny all those examples you mention ... yet they still decided to keep the DPS on LR in the April patch. ... HUM Let's think about that. :pensive: I would be inclined to actually agree with you ... if they would have not changed it at all ... but they did change it ... just not to something insignificant. ... and the best reason you can think of is incompetence? OK :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 It's to the point a pulsing blinding field does f... all, drop smoke screen on a down and a ranger just cc spams u off the down and rezes his teamate lmao, these devs are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > > > > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet's 'new' balance philosophy in regards to this thread is about CC being the purpose of CC only. > > OK ... so now explain why they didn't make the coefficient zero when they changed it in April after they adopted that philosophy. > > I mean the proof is also right there in game > > What proof would that be? The fact they didn't remove the damage from LR when they changed it in April? after they adopted the philosophy? Funny all those examples you mention ... yet they still decided to keep the DPS on LR in the April patch. ... HUM Let's think about that. :pensive: I would be inclined to actually agree with you ... if they would have not changed it at all ... but they did change it ... just not to something insignificant. ... and the best reason you can think of is incompetence? OK :+1: > > > Hey you asked what would make them violate their own balance philosophy with LR, I gave you the answer. Incompetence and consistent inconsistency. Same sort of incompetence that nerfs skills no one uses/ making bad skills worse then buffing strong abilities that were being complained about for whatever reason. Having GM traits/skills that increase your damage by a % but hits for single or double digits. Want to talk about 300 ICD traits? They're still the same after February patch. What about bots, hacking, and wintrading/Match Manipulation which was/is against their ToS, yeah Anet seal of approval. Imagine actually deep diving the intricacy of classes and how they function to appropriately tune them to acceptable levels instead of doing a lazy blanket nerfs in the guise of returning to form and gutting diversity in the process :pepega:. Yet sure, LR april change doesn't at all fit with Anet's inconsistency with how they balance the game as some things are okay, while others are not. :+1: Easier way to bring LR inline instead of nerfing shocking aura or the damage itself would be to make it on interrupt rather than on CC as it's harder to argue if it teeters on the fence of breaking the new balance philosophy or not as interrupts are a different ballpark, even though it's in the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > > > > > > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet's 'new' balance philosophy in regards to this thread is about CC being the purpose of CC only. > > > > OK ... so now explain why they didn't make the coefficient zero when they changed it in April after they adopted that philosophy. > > > I mean the proof is also right there in game > > > > What proof would that be? The fact they didn't remove the damage from LR when they changed it in April? after they adopted the philosophy? Funny all those examples you mention ... yet they still decided to keep the DPS on LR in the April patch. ... HUM Let's think about that. :pensive: I would be inclined to actually agree with you ... if they would have not changed it at all ... but they did change it ... just not to something insignificant. ... and the best reason you can think of is incompetence? OK :+1: > > > > > > > > Hey you asked what would make them violate their own balance philosophy with LR, I gave you the answer. Incompetence and consistent inconsistency. Same sort of incompetence that nerfs skills no one uses/ making bad skills worse then buffing strong abilities that were being complained about for whatever reason. Having GM traits/skills that increase your damage by a % but hits for single or double digits. Want to talk about 300 ICD traits? They're still the same after February patch. What about bots, hacking, and wintrading/Match Manipulation which was/is against their ToS, yeah Anet seal of approval. Imagine actually deep diving the intricacy of classes and how they function to appropriately tune them to acceptable levels instead of doing a lazy blanket nerfs in the guise of returning to form and gutting diversity in the process :pepega:. Yet sure, LR april change doesn't at all fit with Anet's inconsistency with how they balance the game as some things are okay, while others are not. :+1: > > Easier way to bring LR inline instead of nerfing shocking aura or the damage itself would be to make it on interrupt rather than on CC as it's harder to argue if it teeters on the fence of breaking the new balance philosophy or not as interrupts are a different ballpark, even though it's in the same area. Staff ele being deleted from PvE because "We want melee to do more damage than ranged"(despite the fact all boons and healing are melee range???) yet deadeye rifle is higher DPS than staff DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > > > > > > > You went through all the trouble to respond multiple times but they're all to akin to the same sort response as "Just dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's because the solution to the problem is as simple as that; no more elaboration required ... unless you are confused by what "not playing solo" means. Whether Lightning Rod exists or not is rather irrelevant .... if you can stunlock someone, you don't need Lightning Rod traits or similar to kill them. Lightning Rod isn't the issue here because it doesn't do anything unless you are disabled in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not the one that has problems getting killed in 1v1s to stunlocked, sounds like a personal skill to iron out. Lightning Rod is a issue and also a very low effort trait, because again it goes against the whole February patch reasoning of why they nuked all the damage on CC abilities to do no damage. It needs to be brought in line , because if this is fine then CC damage changes should be reverted across all classes. Probably nuke the damage component, but compensate it by stacking high amounts of vulnerability, and some cripple, on top of weakness it already gives, or go the lazy way and give it a 5s ICD. > > > > > > > > > > > > LIghtning Rod is actually not the issue here; while it's low effort, it's high cost as a GM trait and does nothing when you don't disable a player. The problem here is the stunlocking ... or whatever you want to call it ... because without that lightning rod is a massive nothing. I mean ... how much disables do you need to lay on someone to make the majority of your DPS come from it? > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime ... the advice to not run around solo if you know this is in the match is perfectly reasonable and it works >>> EVEN if I'm not drowning you in a depth of example to prove it to you. > > > > > > > > > > Lightning Rod is a problem since it doesn't line up with the current balance philosophy Anet set on February. > > > > > > > > What would that balance philosophy be and why do you think Anet would violate it with this trait? Let's explore that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet's 'new' balance philosophy in regards to this thread is about CC being the purpose of CC only. > > > > OK ... so now explain why they didn't make the coefficient zero when they changed it in April after they adopted that philosophy. > > > I mean the proof is also right there in game > > > > What proof would that be? The fact they didn't remove the damage from LR when they changed it in April? after they adopted the philosophy? Funny all those examples you mention ... yet they still decided to keep the DPS on LR in the April patch. ... HUM Let's think about that. :pensive: I would be inclined to actually agree with you ... if they would have not changed it at all ... but they did change it ... just not to something insignificant. ... and the best reason you can think of is incompetence? OK :+1: > > > > > > > > Hey you asked what would make them violate their own balance philosophy with LR, I gave you the answer. Incompetence and consistent inconsistency. That really doesn't make sense considering they competently fixed all those other examples you mentioned and 'accidentally' set the coefficient to 0.95; this was no accident. And it's not hard to see that LR damage isn't a problem here because it triggers on disables. The cause is the disables. I don't really get the reluctance to acknowledge that ... unless you have some reason to not want all those disables looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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