kharmin.7683 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animism.7530 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animism.7530 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? > > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? The only person "avoiding" anything here is you, many people told you already that they don't see anything wrong with current way of gw2 monetization and yet... here you are with comments like this. You can be as persistent as you want, it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't "get too expensive", that complaining about skins -mount or not- in the gemshop is just hilarious and nothing about that is p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 @"Animism.7530" Still didn't answer these... "Think it would be good for you to gain a better understanding of “pay to win”... And if you think you do understand already, then I want you to explain, in detail, what are the cash only items offered on the gemstore that provide a statistical advantage over another player? What items give players a statistical advantage over other players in wvw, spvp, open world pve, raids, and fractals... that are only available to folks that fork over real money? You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. > Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. But you are saying that it shouldn't be the current model because of 'expensive' to addicts right? I mean, maybe you need to elaborate what you DO support because if your argument is that we should abolish the current model for that reason ... it sure would be pretty nonsensical to replace it with one that is expensive for a larger, more responsible segment of the players don't you think? Honestly, I think it's just a big ruse to justify the way you want things to work without actually thinking about how "reducing expenses for players" justification would be even MORE relevant with ANY other model. I'm borrowing this ... because anyone that claims a game you can play for COMPLETELY FREE is being very unfair about labeling Anet's OPTIONAL gem store purchases with IRL currency predatory. There is NO substitute for people being responsible and no responsible organization should have to rework their whole business model around people that are irresponsible. That's nonsense. > @"Swagger.1459" said: > You, like the op, accused Anet of being “predatory”... So I want you to explain to the community exactly how a game that doesn’t charge a monthly sub and allows players to exchange gold for gems to get anything off the gemstore for $0 “predatory”?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animism.7530 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > > To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. > > Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. > > But you are saying that it shouldn't be the current model because of 'expensive' to addicts right? I mean, maybe you need to elaborate what you DO support because if your argument is that we should abolish the current model for that reason ... it sure would be pretty nonsensical to replace it with one that is expensive for a larger, more responsible segment of the players don't you think? Honestly, I think it's just a big ruse to justify the way you want things to work without actually thinking about how "reducing expenses for players" justification would be even MORE relevant with any other model. > > I mentioned that I don't think gambling and loot boxes should be allowed in its current form. Not only because I think it's unethical in some examples, but also because it may be counterproductive in some other cases. I also mentioned that more items should be made to be obtainable separate from the gemstore. I really don't think I need to be making a case for a perfect system here, my criticism of what we have should be perfectly acceptable. Besides which - see my last comment. I'm not going to answer your comments suggesting it is a ruse or that it would be solely for my benefit - please try be more considerate of what you are suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > > > > To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. > > > Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. > > > > But you are saying that it shouldn't be the current model because of 'expensive' to addicts right? I mean, maybe you need to elaborate what you DO support because if your argument is that we should abolish the current model for that reason ... it sure would be pretty nonsensical to replace it with one that is expensive for a larger, more responsible segment of the players don't you think? Honestly, I think it's just a big ruse to justify the way you want things to work without actually thinking about how "reducing expenses for players" justification would be even MORE relevant with any other model. > > > > > > I mentioned that I don't think gambling and loot boxes should be allowed in its current form. Not only because I think it's unethical in some examples, but also because it may be counterproductive in some other cases. Right ... and that has NOTHING to do with how expensive the game is. It is NOT unethical just because you think Anet should have built their business model around financially irresponsible players. Suggesting the game is predatory or expensive is not recognizing how Anet HAS ALREADY created a business model where people can play for FREE; it is in fact, completely misleading. There is NO substitute for people being responsible. It's not Anet's moral obligation to filter these people out at the expense of the vast majority of responsible players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animism.7530 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > > > > > > To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. > > > > Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. > > > > > > But you are saying that it shouldn't be the current model because of 'expensive' to addicts right? I mean, maybe you need to elaborate what you DO support because if your argument is that we should abolish the current model for that reason ... it sure would be pretty nonsensical to replace it with one that is expensive for a larger, more responsible segment of the players don't you think? Honestly, I think it's just a big ruse to justify the way you want things to work without actually thinking about how "reducing expenses for players" justification would be even MORE relevant with any other model. > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned that I don't think gambling and loot boxes should be allowed in its current form. Not only because I think it's unethical in some examples, but also because it may be counterproductive in some other cases. > > Right ... and that has NOTHING to do with how expensive the game is. It is NOT unethical just because you think Anet should have built their business model around financially irresponsible players. Suggesting the game is predatory is is not recognizing how Anet HAS ALREADY created a business model where people can play for FREE. I'm sorry - but your response does not make sense and is incredibly defamatory. 1. I did not say that they **should** have built their business model around financially irresponsible players. 2. I have already mentioned previously in this thread about how funding from microtransactions tends to come from a minority of players. 3. My opinion over whether it is unethical is my own, thanks. 4. Being able to play the game for free in a limited capacity isn't even related to what we're discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with the current game business model because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > > > > > > > > To be fair, I didn't originally suggest or state the change had to be to a subscription based model - that's all your misunderstanding. > > > > > Also... It is certainly not a **"different thread"**. > > > > > > > > But you are saying that it shouldn't be the current model because of 'expensive' to addicts right? I mean, maybe you need to elaborate what you DO support because if your argument is that we should abolish the current model for that reason ... it sure would be pretty nonsensical to replace it with one that is expensive for a larger, more responsible segment of the players don't you think? Honestly, I think it's just a big ruse to justify the way you want things to work without actually thinking about how "reducing expenses for players" justification would be even MORE relevant with any other model. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned that I don't think gambling and loot boxes should be allowed in its current form. Not only because I think it's unethical in some examples, but also because it may be counterproductive in some other cases. > > > > Right ... and that has NOTHING to do with how expensive the game is. It is NOT unethical just because you think Anet should have built their business model around financially irresponsible players. Suggesting the game is predatory is is not recognizing how Anet HAS ALREADY created a business model where people can play for FREE. > > > 1. I did not say that they **should** have built their business model around financially irresponsible players. You ARE suggesting it because it's part of the reason you have given for why you think the business model should change ... so let's not quibble about language here. > 2. I have already mentioned previously in this thread about how funding from microtransactions tends to come from a minority of players. OK ... how is that relevant here? Some kind of speculation that these minority are addicted to buying Keys so GS is 'predatory'? So your opinion is based completely on your own speculations? > 3. My opinion over whether it is unethical is my own, thanks. You have to get unhung on this ... there is no debate here about if this is your opinion, at least not from me. > 4. Being able to play the game for free in a limited capacity isn't even related to what we're discussing. Well, it is, because the whole topic here is if the game is expensive to play ... and it's not because it can be played for FREE, including buying ANYTHING from the GS. It's you that attempt to make this a discussion about the business model changing because of 'addicts'. I mean, I will say it again. Something is 'expensive' is based on the circumstance of the buyer. There is NO reason for Anet to reconsider their business because of how irresponsible customers patronize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 @"Animism.7530" “Being able to play the game for free in a limited capacity isn't even related to what we're discussing.” Box fee. No monthly sub. 0 items on the gem store that provide a power advantage over other players. Players can buy anything off the gem store for $0. Yeah... real “unethical”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? It might do better, but that's a moot point as it's completely speculative and likely not worth the risk to player retention for Anet to try to implement it anyways. > > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? Actually, personally would be thrilled to explore this topic because as a Casual gamer, I'm MORE willing to spend my leisure money on individual items from a store that I can CHOOSE based on how I find value in those items as opposed to being constantly pinged with a constant monthly sub where the value of my TIME is variable from month to month. In fact, I find I spend MORE money with this GS model because I get more value from buying things I want as opposed to paying constant access to a service I might not be able to use consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > > > > > > > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only person "avoiding" anything here is you, many people told you already that they don't see anything wrong with current way of gw2 monetization and yet... here you are with comments like this. You can be as persistent as you want, it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't "get too expensive", that complaining about skins -mount or not- in the gemshop is just hilarious and nothing about that is p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You realise you are telling me to not have an opinion over the matter, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, I'm telling you you're a bit in a denial about most things people write/answer to you if it means they disprove your opinion; when you have nothing to answer you simply drop the points without giving it a second thought aaaand then have some audacity to suggest it's someone else who's "avoiding the topic". That's a little different from disallowing you to have an opinion or w/e you're suggesting I did here. > > > > > > > > > > Disprove my opinion? That's not how that works. > > > > > Again... In fairness I mentioned all of the answers to peoples questions earlier in the thread. I'm not going to keep repeating it or answering people who attempt to derail or fail to distinguish things. > > > > > > > > Ah yes, this again. :D > > > > It absolutely is how that works despite some people trying to frame their false statements as "opinions" and then claim "opinions can't be wrong" and whatnot. Not to dig too deep (as you most probably won't accept the facts anyways based on what I've seen from your past posts in this thread), you straight up made claims about mount skins and outfits being p2w model. I'm sure you say it's just your opinion. And yes, it is simply wrong. > > > > And addressing exactly what you said isn't "derailing" any more than the posts those answers refer to whether or not you agree with their contents. > > > > > > You've ignored lots of what I have mentioned in this thread, and cherrypicked at a few items whilst refusing me my own opinion, claiming it is all false claims and proven wrong. > > > > > > Ok, good luck. > > > > What did I "ignore" and "cherrypicked"? What are you talking about? I've listed multiple points before that first you've dropped half of and then the rest of them simply from lack of anything to answer. Don't turn this around now claiming it's me who's avoiding something here, lmao. > > The forums are for constructive feedback and discussion. > Leave it at your last comment. Thanks. Yes and I (alongside other forum users) constructively gave you quite a few useful tips in this thread: 1. New players can pretty easly farm up for needed account upgrades as they go by using popular and accessible farms and then exchanging gold to gems. They can even make it more efficient by using biannual sales. **-for some reason, apparently, sales don't count.** Ok. It doesn't make sense not to take advantage of the sales we know are regularly comming, but we don't even need sales to pretty easly farm out these upgrades. **at which point you've said "this just outlines the problem"(???) and dropped the point entirely**. 2. Why build templates are FAR from "needed", let alone from being p2w. 3. Why your *opinion* about mount skins and outfits representing p2w model is wrong, to which you answered... "opinions can't be wrong". Constructive feedback indeed. 4. Why your claim about dressing false statements as opinions suddenly making them "unable to be wrong" is... yeah, wrong. I think it will be useful for you in general if you intend having any discussions in the future, seems pretty constructive to me so you can stop repeating false statements in place of actual arguments. Actually I'm not sure relisting everything makes sense. I think it's easier for you to re-read the second page of this thread and see how fast you've dropped multiple points you've made without a proper answer to understand you're not the one to make claims about someone "avoiding the topic". Anyways, I've told you what you've avoided. Now feel free to tell me what I've ignored so I can stop being a cherrypicker and answer to whatever you want answered. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > or happened to log in at the right time. The time period is advertised and known months in advance and lasts for months. You don't, "happen to log in at the right time," you log in during the advertised window covering a period of as much as a third of a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? I am not an expert in this field and I doubt that anyone else in this thread is either. Anet has decided upon the existing model using metrics and information that none of us have. Also, who determines what is a "worthy" price? I play GW2 because there is no subscription fee. That is a worthy price to me. > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? I don't understand how you believe that I am avoiding anything related to the gemstore. I am probably the epitome of a GW2 casual player. The gemstore looks fine to me as it contains NOTHING that I need to play GW2 or progress in the game. I can choose to purchase cosmetics or other QoL items as I see fit. This allows me to spend what I want when I want to spend it. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? > > It might do better, but that's a moot point as it's completely speculative and likely not worth the risk to player retention for Anet to try to implement it anyways. > > > > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? > > Actually, personally would be thrilled to explore this topic because as a Casual gamer, I'm MORE willing to spend my leisure money on individual items from a store that I can CHOOSE based on how I find value in those items as opposed to being constantly pinged with a constant monthly sub where the value of my TIME is variable from month to month. In fact, I find I spend MORE money with this GS model because I get more value from buying things I want as opposed to paying constant access to a service I might not be able to use consistently. Exactly my point, Obtena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > I understand that you believe you are the epitome of a casual player (with 5.5k posts on a game forum, might I kindly add?). > I'm not trying to say that some people are happy with the system, I'm pointing out that lots more prospective players are not. And you have data to support that more prospective players are not pleased with this system than those already playing GW2? How can prospective players be displeased with a game system that they haven't even played? > Also, you are now admitting that you spend more money with this GS model but are wholly against a subscription model as if it would be terrible for the 'casual' player? Like many other casual players that I know, time is valuable. I don't play games with subscription fees because I cannot consistently commit enough time to them every month to justify the price. > ... But you just said you are the epitome, and are completely happy with this? I said that I was probably the epitome and yes, I am quite content with the existing model. I thought that I was clear about that in my last post? > > So would you like to list all the other potential reasons why GW2 does not have as high of a playerbase as a much older game? All of them? Get serious. Not even you could do this, so it's a dead point. >Or will you admit with me that the gemstore plays a part in the presentation of this game and that there may be many others who do not like the model? I don't know why you continue to need people to admit things or completely agree with you. Of course there are people who do not like the current model. Anet's statistics and marketing data probably gives them the information that they need to continue with the model as originally instituted. They are much more involved in the gaming industry than I am and presumably you are, too. They know what will bring them the most profit in return for their shareholders. If a subscription model would increase that, I'm certain that Anet would move to that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > I'm not trying to say that some people are happy with the system, I'm pointing out that lots more prospective players are not. You can't be serious at this point ... why are potential players a MORE important consideration for this game considering it's already ESTABLISHED playerbase sustains the game with the current model? That's nonsensical to throw these players under the bus for whatever potential you think exists. It's completely speculative to think there is a business model out there that will benefit the game more to be attractive for prospective players and completely unreasonable for Anet to experiment with meddling with it at the expense of current players to test if that speculation is true. I mean, again ... this is why I'm claiming this is a ruse on your part ... everything you are saying here is just conjecture simply to establish some false foundation that there is a need for changing the business model. The fact is that you just don't like the current model ... and the best reason you have to change it is 'addicts' and 'maybe potential players'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pareth.3847 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Someone implied that a gem store looks not good for casual players. Excuse me, who gave you the right to speak for all casual players? I am just a "casual", and I have NO issue with a gem store that only has convenience and cosmetic items. 2-3 times a year, I spend some money on the gem store. More often I just use gold and convert it into gems. I like it that way. In other games, you have to pay for a sub AND pay loads of money for the nicest skins in their store. Then are are games like Lotro where the store is actually giving players a proper advantage skill and stats wise if they spend money (or grind out points). I might just be one casual, but before you imply all casual have an issue with a gem store, maybe talk to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"pareth.3847" said: > Someone implied that a gem store looks not good for casual players. Excuse me, who gave you the right to speak for all casual players? I am just a "casual", and I have NO issue with a gem store that only has convenience and cosmetic items. 2-3 times a year, I spend some money on the gem store. More often I just use gold and convert it into gems. I like it that way. In other games, you have to pay for a sub AND pay loads of money for the nicest skins in their store. Then are are games like Lotro where the store is actually giving players a proper advantage skill and stats wise if they spend money (or grind out points). I might just be one casual, but before you imply all casual have an issue with a gem store, maybe talk to some. Oh dont worry they talked to 2 or 3 then speak for them all ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > ...or, not understanding that there's no guarantee the items they want so badly would be given away for free. I can't think of a single MMO that gives away character slots, for example, even if they are sub based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"Animism.7530" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > @"Animism.7530" said: > > > > > > Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please. > > > > > > > > > > Remind yourself, there is no gem store based gear progression in this game. Exotic is plenty for open PvE. Ascended IS needed for upper-tier Fractals and easy to craft. Legendary gear is more decorative (in some cases) but primarily only offers stat swapping at no cost and is earned by participating in top tier content and investing time after you have the personal skill. > > > > > > > > > > Like any good RPG, you earn it by playing the game, not putting down $$$. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can obtain all of that stuff with gem->gold purchases, and save lots of time. > > > > You could in theory, pay for 800 gems, convert to gold, and pay for a team to complete your T4 daily fractals. It could easily be more efficient than actually playing the game. > > > > > > OK ... But none of those things indicates the game is expensive. Whether you can get something with in-game or RL currency is irrelevant to how you can progress; the paths are the same and benefit players ability to make choices based on their RL circumstatnces ... but that's a different thread. > > > > > > You know, I've had some time to think about it .. it's pretty weird that you have a big problem with how the game business structure exists because of how financially irresponsible addicts would spend money in it, making it 'expensive' for them ... but you have absolutely **no problem** with a subscription-based business model that makes the game expensive to a much wider, more responsible segment of players. Sounds like you have an agenda for change ... based on an invalid argument of reducing overall game expense to players. Don't worry, we will point these little discrepancies out as they are made. > > I find that most of these types of threads are veiled attempts to get support to change GW2 to a subscription model so that the players get everything for their monthly fee, not understanding that it would be cheaper in the long run to preserve the model that is currently in place. /smh > > > > Are you trying to infer that Guild Wars 2 would not do well under a subscription model and wouldn't have the potential to fund a greater amount of content if the game was worthy of the price to players? > > Are you also happy to avoid the topic of how a gemstore looks to casual gamers looking to play? Hi, Casual Gamer here: It looks like a valid way for a company that's giving it's main game away for free to make money. Most of the OP's issues would not be resolved by a sub model. Character slots, and cosmetics would still cost money, and hey, can you point me to the game publisher that pays for it's player's PC upgrades if they maintain a sub? Seems like there's a whole lot of thrashing around trying to justify an agenda, than actually trying to make a game cheaper to play. Adding a sub model to a game that's still going to sell cosmetics/character slots etc. does not make it cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokh.2695 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Please check the forums search option to find out more about "GW2 NEEDS A SUB FEE NAO!!!!!!!!!!!". Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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