Necro deserves a solid nerf; especially Reaper. In PvP and especially WvW.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"kybraga.7103" said:

> Main thing I'll say Necromancer needs reconsidered in Life Force generation, it never got considered in instances where damage was gutted across the board. Skills like Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor, Grasp, Reaper's Touch, etc. The numbers could be toned down a _little bit_.

 

I'm sorry to have to say that you're wrong here.

 

The issue is not LF generation, LF gen is high simply because the necromancer need LF for both damage and defense. To work properly, the necromancer need a relatively high LF gen just like the warrior need a relatively high rage gen.

 

If you consider that the increase of survivability is due to damage being gutted, what the necromancer need is a reduction to it's LF pool, not it's LF gen. Because reducing the LF pool effectively reduce the number of hit he can take while in shroud. While reducing the LF gen effectively impair the necromancer's ability to go through it's skill rotation.

 

The focus of what you suggest is equivalent to focusing on elementalist's attunment CD to balance it's survivability. Yes, by increasing it's attunment CD you'll end up reducing it's survivability but you'll also hurt it's whole gameplay dynamic.

[kybraga.7103]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"kybraga.7103" said:

> > Main thing I'll say Necromancer needs reconsidered in Life Force generation, it never got considered in instances where damage was gutted across the board. Skills like Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor, Grasp, Reaper's Touch, etc. The numbers could be toned down a _little bit_.

>

> I'm sorry to have to say that you're wrong here.

>

> The issue is not LF generation, LF gen is high simply because the necromancer need LF for both damage and defense. To work properly, the necromancer need a relatively high LF gen just like the warrior need a relatively high rage gen.

>

> If you consider that the increase of survivability is due to damage being gutted, what the necromancer need is a reduction to it's LF pool, not it's LF gen. Because reducing the LF pool effectively reduce the number of hit he can take while in shroud. While reducing the LF gen effectively impair the necromancer's ability to go through it's skill rotation.

>

> The focus of what you suggest is equivalent to focusing on elementalist's attunment CD to balance it's survivability. Yes, by increasing it's attunment CD you'll end up reducing it's survivability but you'll also hurt it's whole gameplay dynamic.

 

In many ways I agree, but it's more likely that what I had said would happen than the actual thing of 'scaling down the LF pool.' My suggestion is the more realistic end-goal although I would love to see the pool scaled down a little bit instead.

 

~~Also bully barrier on things like Weaver because that gets kinda old especially with upcoming MAT using it.~~

[Gogdarth.6741]

It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

 

To the grave... and beyond!

 

Well objectively the thread was enlivened by Arheundel, it would have died out without him.

[silent killer.5732]

To all of yous who wants necro nerfs even though the necro is not even in the top tier conversations in the eyes of the good players. In behalf of all necros I would like to say we are willing and ready to lose our shroud. But we want aegis and stealth in return. And we want telepot so we can run away when things went south.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"silent killer.5732" said:

> To all of yous who wants necro nerfs even though the necro is not even in the top tier conversations in the eyes of the good players. In behalf of all necros I would like to say we are willing and ready to lose our shroud. But we want aegis and stealth in return. And we want telepot so we can run away when things went south.

 

We already gave up the shroud with scourge and got barrier to act as an aegis. Just need a set of _traps_ on top of that and, with the help of runes of the trapper, we will be close.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> > It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

>

> To the grave... and beyond!

>

> Well objectively the thread was enlivened by Arheundel...

...who roams with boonbeast, immob druild, and longbow/GS hit and run sic em sniper (all 3 builds hardcounter necro and 2 of them are overpowered in general) excessively in wvw and therefore disqualifies himself for any criticsim on the necro class.

 

I did showcase to him how shitty any non-speed rune + speed of shadows reaper build is against any ranger build he brings to the table for one evening in wvw and he is still on his agenda. I guess it's hopeless. He just wants a free-win against players that are clearly on a higher skill level than him.

 

95% of the nerf cries in this forum are delusional players. I've seen so many of them ingame and what skill level they truely are. And the loudest nerf crying players are usually the ones playing the broken fotm builds at the same time.

 

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> > > It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

> >

> > To the grave... and beyond!

> >

> > Well objectively the thread was enlivened by Arheundel...

> ...who roams with boonbeast, immob druild, and longbow/GS hit and run sic em sniper (all 3 builds hardcounter necro and 2 of them are overpowered in general) excessively in wvw and therefore disqualifies himself for any criticsim on the necro class.

>

> I did showcase to him how kitten any non-speed rune + speed of shadows reaper build is against any ranger build he brings to the table for one evening in wvw and he is still on his agenda. I guess it's hopeless. He just wants a free-win against players that are clearly on a higher skill level than him.

>

> 95% of the nerf cries in this forum are delusional players. I've seen so many of them ingame and what skill level they truely are. And the loudest nerf crying players are usually the ones playing the broken fotm builds at the same time.

>

>

>

 

Because they think their opponents should always be as easy as the non-FotM offmeta or downright incompatible/bad PvE builds that get brought in by other inexperienced players, and struggle into those enough to think it's a fair fight. So when they lose to someone playing something FotM on another class, they lose their minds about how what they got beaten by is "clearly massively OP" rather than their low skill being carried by an OP build relative to most others.

 

One of the perks of playing and learning off-meta with the occasional dabble in FotM is that every win you get is mostly deserved, and you can be more objective about what's definitely OP.

[jpsssss.7530]

Why are people still looking for necro nerfs? Necro has too few viable builds as it has lost too many good skills and traits. Like i dropped necro entirely because i play wvw and the like 2 strong buids for small scale arent very fun, and necro gets kited to easily...

How's about we as a community start looking for Anet to buff classes that are under performing and promote more build diversity. Necro has almost a whole elite spec (RIP scourge) because of the "waaaaaah nerf this because owwwy" mentality.

[YaminoNakani.7083]

I couldn't even get through this thread. It gave me such a headache reading it.

 

Just let it die.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> That's been a trend for almost every class for the last 8 years. Dude playing class X can't kill class Y ... there is a rant post about it in class Y subforum.

 

Real fact here.

 

BTW - for anyone who DOES do this - my advice is if you get beaten by a class and don't understand why (because ultimately, this mentality stems from ignorance of the game outside of your class). . .play the class. Then you'll understand its pitfalls.

 

If you have played a necromancer (or really any class) and find yourself just stomping 24/7 - you may just be a really good player. Because I'm fairly certain only the best players (of any class) have that experience.

 

And if you are stomping 24/7 - I fully expect your name on the top 30 or you are probably BSing everyone.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > That's been a trend for almost every class for the last 8 years. Dude playing class X can't kill class Y ... there is a rant post about it in class Y subforum.

>

> Real fact here.

>

> BTW - for anyone who DOES do this - my advice is if you get beaten by a class and don't understand why (because ultimately, this mentality stems from ignorance of the game outside of your class). . .play the class. Then you'll understand its pitfalls.

>

> If you have played a necromancer (or really any class) and find yourself just stomping 24/7 - you may just be a really good player. Because I'm fairly certain only the best players (of any class) have that experience.

>

> And if you are stomping 24/7 - I fully expect your name on the top 30 or you are probably BSing everyone.

 

Not everyone plays the worst gamemodes of the game being spvp ;)

I hate that o have to play it for legy amulet

[Aplethoraof.2643]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > >

> > > That's been a trend for almost every class for the last 8 years. Dude playing class X can't kill class Y ... there is a rant post about it in class Y subforum.

> >

> > Real fact here.

> >

> > BTW - for anyone who DOES do this - my advice is if you get beaten by a class and don't understand why (because ultimately, this mentality stems from ignorance of the game outside of your class). . .play the class. Then you'll understand its pitfalls.

> >

> > If you have played a necromancer (or really any class) and find yourself just stomping 24/7 - you may just be a really good player. Because I'm fairly certain only the best players (of any class) have that experience.

> >

> > And if you are stomping 24/7 - I fully expect your name on the top 30 or you are probably BSing everyone.

>

> Not everyone plays the worst gamemodes of the game being spvp ;)

> I hate that o have to play it for legy amulet

 

Considering the main thing I play is ranked and I consistently get matches - that can't be true?

 

I do understand that people have gripes with PvP and I don't want to trivialize that - but at the same time, there is a lot of "wishful thinking" and a general lack of flexibility around the people who do complain endlessly. I generally take them with a heavy dose of salt. They just seem like they are unadjusted to the reality of the game and are stuck in some fantasy land of "what they think the game ought to be".

 

Yeah, I'd take a death match mode, a capture the flag mode. But this game doesn't have those - and at the end of the day, I still enjoy ranked point capture. I experiment with builds, I shove myself out of my comfort zone, and I don't follow the meta. I play to have a good time, I don't play to make it to the top 100 (because that involves stress and ultimately I play to de-stress, not to induce more stress).

 

Yes, I'd like it if there were more updates - but I've also played and enjoyed other games that have long since finished updating. I will always love and appreciate and wish for more content, but I've accepted that (at-least for now, maybe this will change post expansion) Anet won't always deliver content consistently. I'm OK with that - or at the very least, I'm at peace with that and I can move on and enjoy my time playing.

 

Though I also play rogue-likes, Nioh, DS. . .so evidently, I don't actually mind dying/losing in games (or I wouldn't enjoy those kinds of genres). So maybe it is different strokes for different people. Though I also think that "enjoying PvP" and "not wanting to lose" and incompatible desires. If you enjoy PvP, you've probably already accepted you won't win all the time and are ready to move on from there and enjoy yourself.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > >

> > > > That's been a trend for almost every class for the last 8 years. Dude playing class X can't kill class Y ... there is a rant post about it in class Y subforum.

> > >

> > > Real fact here.

> > >

> > > BTW - for anyone who DOES do this - my advice is if you get beaten by a class and don't understand why (because ultimately, this mentality stems from ignorance of the game outside of your class). . .play the class. Then you'll understand its pitfalls.

> > >

> > > If you have played a necromancer (or really any class) and find yourself just stomping 24/7 - you may just be a really good player. Because I'm fairly certain only the best players (of any class) have that experience.

> > >

> > > And if you are stomping 24/7 - I fully expect your name on the top 30 or you are probably BSing everyone.

> >

> > Not everyone plays the worst gamemodes of the game being spvp ;)

> > I hate that o have to play it for legy amulet

>

> Considering the main thing I play is ranked and I consistently get matches - that can't be true?

>

> I do understand that people have gripes with PvP and I don't want to trivialize that - but at the same time, there is a lot of "wishful thinking" and a general lack of flexibility around the people who do complain endlessly. I generally take them with a heavy dose of salt. They just seem like they are unadjusted to the reality of the game and are stuck in some fantasy land of "what they think the game ought to be".

>

> Yeah, I'd take a death match mode, a capture the flag mode. But this game doesn't have those - and at the end of the day, I still enjoy ranked point capture. I experiment with builds, I shove myself out of my comfort zone, and I don't follow the meta. I play to have a good time, I don't play to make it to the top 100 (because that involves stress and ultimately I play to de-stress, not to induce more stress).

>

> Yes, I'd like it if there were more updates - but I've also played and enjoyed other games that have long since finished updating. I will always love and appreciate and wish for more content, but I've accepted that (at-least for now, maybe this will change post expansion) Anet won't always deliver content consistently. I'm OK with that - or at the very least, I'm at peace with that and I can move on and enjoy my time playing.

>

> Though I also play rogue-likes, Nioh, DS. . .so evidently, I don't actually mind dying/losing in games (or I wouldn't enjoy those kinds of genres). So maybe it is different strokes for different people. Though I also think that "enjoying PvP" and "not wanting to lose" and incompatible desires. If you enjoy PvP, you've probably already accepted you won't win all the time and are ready to move on from there and enjoy yourself.

 

I didn't say, that it's the worst gamemode (for me) because the gamemode is lacking diversity in gameplay (just having king of the hill).

It's also lacking, because I feel like there's little to no room to build diversity, especially because of the amulet system.

Also i feel like anet completely failed in their attempt to scale damage down. In spvp most builds have even more bursty, than in WvW, or at least people die there a lot faster.

 

Also the matchmaking is horrible.

I got placed in gold 2 after the ranking matches. And every single game is a coin flip.

Theres almost no matches that end with a close score. It's always one team stomps hard.

 

For example one day I was playing, I got up to almost 15k rating, got good teammates and didn't loose many games.

The other day, i got either teams full of bots or with no brain.

Thief's running to team fight, instead of capping/decapping. Decap druids dieing 1v1....

People running into the enemy team 1 by 1, while enemies are all stacked on one point.

 

Theres absolutely no way to win those, and I dropped below 1300 rating really fast.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> > > It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

> >

> > To the grave... and beyond!

> >

> > Well objectively the thread was enlivened by Arheundel...

> ...who roams with boonbeast, immob druild, and longbow/GS hit and run sic em sniper (all 3 builds hardcounter necro and 2 of them are overpowered in general) excessively in wvw and therefore disqualifies himself for any criticsim on the necro class.

>

> I did showcase to him how kitten any non-speed rune + speed of shadows reaper build is against any ranger build he brings to the table for one evening in wvw and he is still on his agenda. I guess it's hopeless. He just wants a free-win against players that are clearly on a higher skill level than him.

>

> 95% of the nerf cries in this forum are delusional players. I've seen so many of them ingame and what skill level they truely are. And the loudest nerf crying players are usually the ones playing the broken fotm builds at the same time.

>

>

>

 

Really I roam with 4 different professions : ranger - ele - guardian and warrior , but have necro too, just no enough gear for him In WvW for now at least. Really...I never whisper people, never did so.....**because I don't need lol**

 

Where I roam and succeed with a core ele d/d.....others jump on a core necro and talk of "higher skill level".....go figure, imagine needing a specific rune set to accomplish anything....an elite to cover your behind when outplayed...and an **unconditional** trait that alone can turn a tank into a bursting tank, there are no time limitations like they are on an air ele ( needs fury and extra ferocity only last 5s ).

 

I wonder what will happen now...will I be reported again for posting on the necro subforum? receive nasty message in game from unknown individuals?....been there done that I am not worried

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> > > > It's fitting that a necromancer subforum just doesn't let a silly bait thread die peacefully, but still.

> > >

> > > To the grave... and beyond!

> > >

> > > Well objectively the thread was enlivened by Arheundel...

> > ...who roams with boonbeast, immob druild, and longbow/GS hit and run sic em sniper (all 3 builds hardcounter necro and 2 of them are overpowered in general) excessively in wvw and therefore disqualifies himself for any criticsim on the necro class.

> >

> > I did showcase to him how kitten any non-speed rune + speed of shadows reaper build is against any ranger build he brings to the table for one evening in wvw and he is still on his agenda. I guess it's hopeless. He just wants a free-win against players that are clearly on a higher skill level than him.

> >

> > 95% of the nerf cries in this forum are delusional players. I've seen so many of them ingame and what skill level they truely are. And the loudest nerf crying players are usually the ones playing the broken fotm builds at the same time.

> >

> >

> >

>

> an **unconditional** trait that alone can turn a tank into a bursting tank,

 

Which trait does this?

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > an **unconditional** trait that alone can turn a tank into a bursting tank,

>

> Which trait does this?

 

It's probably either _death perception_ or _Reaper's onslaught_.

What's not taken into account is the fact that if it wasn't one of them it would be _dhuumfire_ and somehow for sPvP players it would be worse because it's a condi trait.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > an **unconditional** trait that alone can turn a tank into a bursting tank,

> >

> > Which trait does this?

>

> It's probably either _death perception_ or _Reaper's onslaught_.

> What's not taken into account is the fact that if it wasn't one of them it would be _dhuumfire_ and somehow for sPvP players it would be worse because it's a condi trait.

 

Those two traits are conditional. So it can't be those.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > an **unconditional** trait that alone can turn a tank into a bursting tank,

> > >

> > > Which trait does this?

> >

> > It's probably either _death perception_ or _Reaper's onslaught_.

> > What's not taken into account is the fact that if it wasn't one of them it would be _dhuumfire_ and somehow for sPvP players it would be worse because it's a condi trait.

>

> Those two traits are conditional. So it can't be those.

 

True, I might be wrong, but I think it might be "unconditional" because somehow from his point of view you cannot take any of the other 2, they are not worth it.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

I didnt know there are rangers who use daggers on both hands.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> I didnt know there are rangers who use daggers on both hands.

I've seen D/D + GS rangers a few times in WvW. Quite funny to watch all this leaping and evading and blocking. Even though D/D is a condi weapon combo in the first place, the direct damage modifiers are good enough, that D/D is viable as a direct damage support weapon to the burst of GS.

 

If necro D/D worked like this, that would be great. It's niche but not trash like D/D for necro.

 

[Henrik.7560]

reaper is not that bad vulnerable to CC and burst, core condi necro is way worse its just too tanky

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Henrik.7560" said:

> reaper is not that bad vulnerable to CC and burst, core condi necro is way worse its just too tanky

 

I finally decided to entirely dumb elementalist, so transfered legendary armor and such on necro as a 3rd main, I was already familiar with the traits and gameplay but now I get to play with stats and gear and..oh boy..

 

Using : death - Soul reaping and Reaper ; I use cav/knight stats for testing and I am basically a tank with zerker levels of dmg, reaching 2.7k toughness - 2.4k power - 55& crit chance and 230% crit dmg while having mobility(firework runes) + 3 stunbreaks on moderate CD ( wurm - spectral and "You are all weakling") and 22k HP.

 

And people call you names and such for pointing things out...ok then, had to nothing to lose and jumped on the bandwagon....wait for me to come up with a core necro build...I could make a video out of it.

 

Overall the bias here is at insane levels, there is zero objectivity and people should really play other professions before claiming they have it bad on necro.....

[Axl.8924]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Henrik.7560" said:

> > reaper is not that bad vulnerable to CC and burst, core condi necro is way worse its just too tanky

>

> I finally decided to entirely dumb elementalist, so transfered legendary armor and such on necro as a 3rd main, I was already familiar with the traits and gameplay but now I get to play with stats and gear and..oh boy..

>

> Using : death - Soul reaping and Reaper ; I use cav/knight stats for testing and I am basically a tank with zerker levels of dmg, reaching 2.7k toughness - 2.4k power - 55& crit chance and 230% crit dmg while having mobility(firework runes) + 3 stunbreaks on moderate CD ( wurm - spectral and "You are all weakling") and 22k HP.

>

> And people call you names and such for pointing things out...ok then, had to nothing to lose and jumped on the bandwagon....wait for me to come up with a core necro build...I could make a video out of it.

>

> Overall the bias here is at insane levels, there is zero objectivity and people should really play other professions before claiming they have it bad on necro.....

 

Well it depends.

 

If you get called out because you claim a class has no weaknesses and such, then yeah it's false and deserves to be called out.

 

Just because a class that you main is underpowered doesn't mean the other one is overpowered.

 

Nec is quite slow and vulnerable to CC. it might not seem to some, but it is, and thats the reason why folks go with runes to be faster. its also limited evades and such, which is why being tanky is necessary. IF you take that away, then nec becomes a joke and free kill, and since people hate losing can't stand to be outplayed, they cry until a class gets nerfed, even if its deserved, it sometimes gets overnerfed, which is why people are on edge. ele has had its ups and downs in SPVP, but how about buffing ele instead of crying for nerfs to nec?

 

I love me some ele and i'd prefer if ele gets tools improved so it can be fun to play as.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Henrik.7560" said:

> > reaper is not that bad vulnerable to CC and burst, core condi necro is way worse its just too tanky

>

> I finally decided to entirely dumb elementalist, so transfered legendary armor and such on necro as a 3rd main, I was already familiar with the traits and gameplay but now I get to play with stats and gear and..oh boy..

>

> Using : death - Soul reaping and Reaper ; I use cav/knight stats for testing and I am basically a tank with zerker levels of dmg, reaching 2.7k toughness - 2.4k power - 55& crit chance and 230% crit dmg while having mobility(firework runes) + 3 stunbreaks on moderate CD ( wurm - spectral and "You are all weakling") and 22k HP.

>

> And people call you names and such for pointing things out...ok then, had to nothing to lose and jumped on the bandwagon....wait for me to come up with a core necro build...I could make a video out of it.

>

> Overall the bias here is at insane levels, there is zero objectivity and people should really play other professions before claiming they have it bad on necro.....

Please stop it finally. Your boonbeast build (yes the one you played yourself) outperforms this by miles. It has more sustain, more damage and more mobility. Pop your boons, cast axe5 and facetank that necro => shroud gone! That useless number dropping... 230% crit damage, 3 stunbreaks, 22k HP ... which clueless newbie do you want to impress with that?

 

But since you like number dropping:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Spiral

WvW multiplier: 2.7

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

WvW multiplier: 5.28

 

Had a good laugh? I had one!

 

Want another example?:

What do you think how much damage a Spinal Shivers, full marauder gear, that removes 3 boons, deals to a boonbeast in WvW? I can tell you: ~ 3k critical damage! With a 2.6 multiplier!