mastery points should be available in the gemstore

[knite.1542]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> Or player buy progression see no reason to play and quit so good for investor pocket bad for players.

> Dev make it even harder to get stuff so people buy it for cash good for investor pocket bad for players.

> Too many players leave bad for devs, investor shrugh and invest in another game bad for players.

 

I don't really think that's how it would go lol. You are hypothetically skipping a grind, not buying the endgame rewards or gear.

I couldn't imagine thinking to myself, "I have all the mastery points now. There is no more reason to play the game."

I think it is more likely that I would think, "I have these mastery points done. Now I can play the content that was locked behind them."

So if anything, it would be even more reason to play the game.

[Donari.5237]

> @"Chichimec.9364" said:

> Hmm, just got my underwater skimmer earlier this week. Needed 6 more mastery points to train it and got those in one afternoon spent on PoF maps. Now I'm working on the experience to able to use those mp and that's taking a bit longer. Can I buy experience on the Trading Post? (That was a sarcastic question, folks. Yes I know about exp boosters. :) )

 

You can get mastery experience from nomming casino coins, I believe -- I didn't even think of this when I was working on skimmer diving, despite having a plethora of them available, and I face-palmed rather hard. Also some of the heart vendors sell mount-specific treats you can consume daily for a burst of xp; get on the correct mount, eat the relevant treat, rejoice.

 

As to buying MP ... I'm firmly on the no side. I was also against the WP unlocks, and I feel that perhaps an 80 boost should not be usable on an account that has not gotten at least one alt to 80 by actually playing through the levels, though I understand that this might make it harder to sell expansions to new players who want to dive into the newest stuff despite the lack of context for the story or time to learn what all the shiny buttons do. Paying to remove tedium is one thing, that's what QoL things like unbreakable tools and shared slots are for. Paying to remove needing to actually play the game ... meh! There are parts of the game I don't do. Raids, pvp, wvw other than special occasions like unlocking new skins. So there are achievements I'm not going to get in those areas. Legendary armor I'm not going to make. That's on me. I wouldn't pay gold to someone to carry me through raids, I won't pay ANet real cash monies to shortcut me to the end point. I've been playing this game for over 8 years, I have max masteries to this point, 27 alts each with at least one elite spec unlocked, and while some MP and HP were a grind to get, I certainly learned to play a lot better thanks to actually having to play my way to success.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Sorry but that is the biggest nonsense in this thread so far. Intelligent business is not based on only what one can make revenue on short term, especially in something which might affect in huge part the perception of the game both to existing players as well as potential new players.

>

> Well, it's not and I'm not saying that Anet only considered the business aspect when they decided to sell progression ... but whatever all those factors were they considered ... clearly the total of all those factor considerations led to Anet deciding they would do it. I mean, you are saying you provided other reasons for why Anet shouldn't sell MPs ...but how do those reasons relate to already-being-sold progression elements? **I suspect not much different right**? Yet Anet did it ... but they shouldn't for MP's? Sounds to me there is something missing in any conclusion that results in opposing the idea.

>

 

That is a very foolish assumption. You suspecting that something has no effect without actually considering the effect of the item is on you.

 

I gave an example which I have witnessed first hand multiple times: players leaving the game after achieving maximum exotic gear (another area where a player can max out rather fast, itemization. Which again likely contributed to both players being happy as well as unhappy with this game). I could point to the often seen question of:"I am level 80, what should I do now?", often paired with the information that the player boosted. I could point to the occasionally appearing demand threads for gear progression or the fact that ascended gear was added shortly after the games launch or even the mere implementation of masteries as sort of PvE progression system. Even the recent increase in grind for PvE elements would be something to consider.

 

All those parts of the mosaic hint at very simple logical conclusion:

**Players without goals quit the game.**

 

How this is affected by each of the already available items or with implementation of new items, that we can only speculate at, but at the core here is: game content skipping items in general will accomplish a reduction in reason to play this game by simple logic that they remove part of the games goals. How this relates to each individual might differ.

 

Also we have no idea how the developers stand on past implemented items. They might as well regret adding those items. There might be a reason we have not see the ability to purchase mastery points or other PvE progression by now. As mentioned by someone earlier, these items have existed for a while yet we have not seen further items in this field be offered or at best fringe items (which provide quality of life different teleports etc.). The lack of more such items is just as much proof that they are undesired as the existing items being proof that these provide only a benefit to the game.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Frankly, if selling progression keeps players interested in the game and not quitting ... what's the problem? You would rather they just leave because of hitting a wall because of of some hangup people have about 'P2W' or whatever other reason? I mean, if I play a character I boosted to 80 or leveled legit ... how does that affect you? Why would you care? How would you know? It's the same with MP's. It's COMPLETELY transparent to players what someone else purchases for progression element. The ACTUAL impact to all of us it ... the game makes money AND players stick around. That sounds GOOD to me ... I certainly want this game to prosper.

>

> I think people are starting to forget why this game was successful when it was released ... and it wasn't because players encountered progression barriers all over the place.

 

No, I am arguing that the net negative to this game of players leaving, even in some cases not knowing that a purchase of something might cause them to leave down the road, can just as much be higher than now resulting in a short term gain and a long term loss.

 

This is applicable to already existing items, even in other areas, as well as future items. I guarantee you there will be players who have quit this game due to the amount of cosmetic items in the gem store by now because to them, cosmetic progress might have become meaningless.

 

That is all without considering the effect on perception of the game. Which one can see is very important given how the developers:

- felt the need to announce an expansion years off to encourage players to stick with the game

- gave a near immediate clarification to a recent issue with perception of the latest PvE living story release (explaining that there is more to come)

- announced things like the legendary armor which at that point were basically on the drawing board (likely again to encourage longer commitment with the game)

 

Suffice to say, I'm quite sure perception of the game is important.

[Fang Wolfika.6820]

How is this even a discussion? The answer should be no as this game already has too few things that actually feel rewarding. Unlocking the waypoints use to feel somewhat rewarding as it meant you were unlocking new areas or "content" with that character you are playing. It gave a sign of progressing in the game, but now we can buy all the core waypoints in the gem store so that rewarding feeling is now gone.

 

The same goes for the Gen 1 legendaries as they don't feel legendary or rewarding as anyone can just buy them on the tp. Mastery points should only be unlocked by actually playing the game as it shows accomplishment of the time you put in the game. It gives players something to work towards in the long run and can give that rewarding feeling for doing something you normally wouldn't do or for playing content that you normally wouldn't play as it shows that you as the player are willing to go above and beyond to accomplish that goal.

 

Do you need to get every mastery point to unlock everything? No, just look at the ones you are willing to do and go for those ones instead. Let me end this with a question, when does the quality of life systems or items make the game no longer fun or rewarding? How long would a game or the community stay together if things that are supposed to be rewarding can simply be bought with money? Anet has already stated years ago that the gen 1 legendaries being tradeable was an oversight and that all legendaries, starting with the gen 2 legendaries would be account bound upon creation to give the sense of a reward after a long journey.

 

Do you need legendaries? no. Do you need all masteries? no. the same goes for the griffon mount and the skyscale mount, as they are the rewards for the players that go out of their way and invest their time into accomplishing a specific goal. By allowing these things to be bought with money would be a slap in the face to those that put in the effort of actually playing the game to get them.

 

I would like somethings to be easier since I only play one character really, but I also know that if really want a particular item or whatever that I am going to have to work towards it, even if it means creating another character, redoing map completion, or playing content that I am not a fan of. Because in the end, I know my time invested will be well rewarded.

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

People in this suggestion are not seeing the bigger picture. I do play this game , and want to continue. To me mastery points are no different than tomes of knowledge which without wvw I have in my bank over 1000 of them. I play the game for the story and exploring areas, not to search for achievements. If I do an achievement playing how I play that's fine I put 13, 500 hours over 3,018 days. so I do play this game. I also have all characters at different stages of the game and LS with each having all elite specs. I ended up having a stroke about a year or so back which made my left side weak and partially useless. So I play with my right hand mostly while adding a bit with my right. I wat to bring my other characters through the LS and expansions over time as I play, but doing the achievements to get them slows the process down.

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> People in this suggestion are not seeing the bigger picture. I do play this game , and want to continue. To me mastery points are no different than tomes of knowledge which without wvw I have in my bank over 1000 of them. I play the game for the story and exploring areas, not to search for achievements. If I do an achievement playing how I play that's fine I put 13, 500 hours over 3,018 days. so I do play this game. I also have all characters at different stages of the game and LS with each having all elite specs. I ended up having a stroke about a year or so back which made my left side weak and partially useless. So I play with my right hand mostly while adding a bit with my right. I wat to bring my other characters through the LS and expansions over time as I play, but doing the achievements to get them slows the process down.

 

I don't know how social you are in the game or if you have people around you who play it. But for example, I arranged it for the Griffon race so that my boyfriend at the time made the ones for me on my account. Or i have done a lot of jumpingpuzzles and other more difficult achievements for a really good friend I met through GW2.

 

Of course, if you don't have anybody you can trust so far, it's going to be hard xx.

[JekthAvid.1408]

> @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> Make mastery points available for gem store purchase for those that do not want to take the time to do all the cr(stuff)ap to get one point. Sometime an entire list has to be completed for just one point that's just bad, especially if people have to get x amount of experience to use them. I hate taking the time to get them wasting the time i could be getting the exp. to use them.

>

 

This strays too far into p2w for me. I see where you're coming from, but no thanks. =D

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Suffice to say, I'm quite sure perception of the game is important.

 

Sure ... and we have for-sale progression elements. Maybe the important perception is actually one you aren't considering here. Maybe instead of convincing everyone the reality of the situation we have is wrong because of what you believe is a predominant perception, you consider why it exists instead.

 

 

[Chichimec.9364]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> ...You can get mastery experience from nomming casino coins, I believe -- I didn't even think of this when I was working on skimmer diving, despite having a plethora of them available, and I face-palmed rather hard. Also some of the heart vendors sell mount-specific treats you can consume daily for a burst of xp; get on the correct mount, eat the relevant treat, rejoice...

Thanks for the reminders. Though I have to say I didn't mind getting the mastery points or the experience. I did a lot of both with some guildmates and the group chatting away with each other in Discord made it more like a party than a grind. Plus, it was actually playing the game and I like this game. :)

 

 

 

[SweetPotato.7456]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION

my answer to your all cap shouting attention title is NO.

 

I have play this game since guild wars 1, bought everything there is on that gamex4 accounts, all the outfits and never have I have the nerve to ask to buy something that I should be playing the game to be sold on the trading post. A lot of Jumping Puzzle, Dungeons, Fractals' titles that I want should NOT be sold on the TP because I wanted them to come to me easily, FYI I am still working on "Gods Walking Amongst Mere Mortal" title.

[AsPeeXXXVIII.9571]

> @"borgs.6103" said:

> Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement!

 

...I did _not_ just read this.

 

Are you seriously willing to completely throw away any and all sense of accomplishment? They're called achievements for a reason. They're there to reward players for doing things they wouldn't necessarily do normally. Some of the achievements you don't even need to actively work towards - the Slayer achievements, for instance, you get more or less automatically as you play the game. Making them purchaseable on the Gem Store would be letting players off too easy, and it'd be even stupider than in the case of Mastery Points, as was originally discussed.

 

Imagine applying this same concept to Steam/Xbox/PlayStation/whatever-the-hell-else achievements. They're there for the player to (more or less) actively work towards should they wish to do so. They should be rewarded for completing the appropriate challenge, not for paying to unlock them. That's giving the player bragging rights for essentially nothing.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

> @"AsPeeXXXVIII.9571" said:

> > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement!

>

> ...I did _not_ just read this.

>

> Are you seriously willing to completely throw away any and all sense of accomplishment? They're called achievements for a reason. They're there to reward players for doing things they wouldn't necessarily do normally. Some of the achievements you don't even need to actively work towards - the Slayer achievements, for instance, you get more or less automatically as you play the game. Making them purchaseable on the Gem Store would be letting players off too easy, and it'd be even stupider than in the case of Mastery Points, as was originally discussed.

>

> Imagine applying this same concept to Steam/Xbox/PlayStation/whatever-the-hell-else achievements. They're there for the player to (more or less) actively work towards should they wish to do so. They should be rewarded for completing the appropriate challenge, not for paying to unlock them. That's giving the player bragging rights for essentially nothing.

 

My dude, I'm, well, reasonably sure that Borgs is being sarcastic.

[AsPeeXXXVIII.9571]

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @"AsPeeXXXVIII.9571" said:

> > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement!

> >

> > ...I did _not_ just read this.

> >

> > Are you seriously willing to completely throw away any and all sense of accomplishment? They're called achievements for a reason. They're there to reward players for doing things they wouldn't necessarily do normally. Some of the achievements you don't even need to actively work towards - the Slayer achievements, for instance, you get more or less automatically as you play the game. Making them purchaseable on the Gem Store would be letting players off too easy, and it'd be even stupider than in the case of Mastery Points, as was originally discussed.

> >

> > Imagine applying this same concept to Steam/Xbox/PlayStation/whatever-the-hell-else achievements. They're there for the player to (more or less) actively work towards should they wish to do so. They should be rewarded for completing the appropriate challenge, not for paying to unlock them. That's giving the player bragging rights for essentially nothing.

>

> My dude, I'm, well, reasonably sure that Borgs is being sarcastic.

 

Yeah, I was pointed to the fact by a friend elsewhere. Problem with sarcasm in text is that it can be hard to recognize - especially for someone like me who isn't neurotypical - and there's more than enough room for misinterpretation in a lot of cases.

[Psykewne.3025]

> @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> Make mastery points available for gem store purchase for those that do not want to take the time to do all the cr(stuff)ap to get one point. Sometime an entire list has to be completed for just one point that's just bad, especially if people have to get x amount of experience to use them. I hate taking the time to get them wasting the time i could be getting the exp. to use them.

>

 

I'm interested in where you feel like you are bottle necked by lack of mastery points. There's a substantial amount of insight ones and plenty from adventures or individual achievements. I know there's a few behind expensive collections but i have all masteries unlocked but certainly not all the expensive mastery points gained.

 

Didn't they add the original tyrian insights due to people complaining it was too hard to get the tyrian masteries completed? Surely the best idea is just to add a few more insights for the areas that this seems to be a problem. The fact that we don't have buyable hero points from the gemstore leads me to believe that this would be unlikely to happen also.

 

GW2 has done well to not gate off too much with masteries but also make them rewarding. The worst offenders were the essence chests i think in strikes.

[Gorani.7205]

I wonder whether people that suggest or want "gemstore MPs" feel the need to buy all types of them, or just the Icebrood Saga ones?

I have my own problem with the Icebrood (blue) ones, because so many are "locked" behind weapon collections and repeating things over and over again (like map meta events or Strike bosses). I completely understand the mind set of not wanted to be forced into those types of achievements. I personally have not maxed out the essence tracks and I am holding onto some of my points, because I have not been able to get masteries that have been "required" to progress in the game, because I don't participate in rather useless and expensive collections and very repetitive and time consuming metas.

I never had the problem with core Tyria masteries, those in HoT or PoF, although we had similar achievements (e.g. Tarir as a repetitive meta).

[Obtena.7952]

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @"AsPeeXXXVIII.9571" said:

> > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement!

> >

> > ...I did _not_ just read this.

> >

> > Are you seriously willing to completely throw away any and all sense of accomplishment? They're called achievements for a reason. They're there to reward players for doing things they wouldn't necessarily do normally. Some of the achievements you don't even need to actively work towards - the Slayer achievements, for instance, you get more or less automatically as you play the game. Making them purchaseable on the Gem Store would be letting players off too easy, and it'd be even stupider than in the case of Mastery Points, as was originally discussed.

> >

> > Imagine applying this same concept to Steam/Xbox/PlayStation/whatever-the-hell-else achievements. They're there for the player to (more or less) actively work towards should they wish to do so. They should be rewarded for completing the appropriate challenge, not for paying to unlock them. That's giving the player bragging rights for essentially nothing.

>

> My dude, I'm, well, reasonably sure that Borgs is being sarcastic.

 

Except the sarcasm is lost because Achievements do not prevent progression ... not having MP's does.

[StarPT.7431]

Bro, just no.

[Kevjoe.6172]

No. Plain no.

Mastery points are a one time unlock on your entire account, there isn't a single reason why you should be able to buy them on the gem store.

Mainly because they are rewarded for actually playing the game.

There's no convience factor here at all, this is just skipping content for the sake of skipping it.

 

No.

[borgs.6103]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > > @"AsPeeXXXVIII.9571" said:

> > > > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > > > Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement!

> > >

> > > ...I did _not_ just read this.

> > >

> > > Are you seriously willing to completely throw away any and all sense of accomplishment? They're called achievements for a reason. They're there to reward players for doing things they wouldn't necessarily do normally. Some of the achievements you don't even need to actively work towards - the Slayer achievements, for instance, you get more or less automatically as you play the game. Making them purchaseable on the Gem Store would be letting players off too easy, and it'd be even stupider than in the case of Mastery Points, as was originally discussed.

> > >

> > > Imagine applying this same concept to Steam/Xbox/PlayStation/whatever-the-hell-else achievements. They're there for the player to (more or less) actively work towards should they wish to do so. They should be rewarded for completing the appropriate challenge, not for paying to unlock them. That's giving the player bragging rights for essentially nothing.

> >

> > My dude, I'm, well, reasonably sure that Borgs is being sarcastic.

>

> Except the sarcasm is lost because Achievements do not prevent progression ... not having MP's does.

 

Oh! You just gave me an idea!

 

 

New gemstore item so Anet can triple dip like the templates:

 

 

 

**Achievement with Mastery Points Unlocker**

Randomly completes an Achievement that rewards a Mastery Point!!11!!one!1eleven!! (Costs way more than the MP or Achievement Unlocker). Also comes in bundles of 5, 10 or 25!

 

Surely, you can finally play the game after buying a bunch of these bad boys!

[Obtena.7952]

Hey, there are lots of ideas ... the question is if they are reasonable to implement. Considering Anet has already started selling progression elements of a significantly easier level of obtain, there isn't anything unreasonable if they did so to other progression elements that are harder that could relatively increased potential to impact a player's progression compared to the ones already being sold.

 

The comparison between achievements and progression elements is clever, but irrelevant.

[Kartky.2409]

Unless u can buy them from only REAL MONEY(not bought via gems or anything else) - fine by me. BUT progression should not work further with the money u have in ur pocket. Also it should be very very expensive,, masteries are a permanent "boost" to your account.

[Nilkemia.8507]

No. Please no. I don't even like Masteries (interesting concept, poor execution) and I don't want this.

[Josiah.2967]

Mastery of gold giving. Donate to a city of your choice ___ gold to get a Mastery point. Can only be done once per account. This mastery point can be used for anything.

 

Fair compromise?

[Palador.2170]

In the gemstore? No, I think that's a bad idea.

Some OTHER way to get them when they're behind content you don't enjoy? Sure, if it's set up right.

 

I'd like to see the ability to set your mastery EXP to go towards earning a point. Even if it's just one pass of the bar at normal spirit shard speed for one point, that would still be slower than most MP's normal method of acquisition. That way, playing through the normal stuff for the points would still be the practical way to go, but you'd never be 'locked out' by stuff you don't want to do. AND you'd still be playing the game to get that point. And if the devs wanted it to be harder than that, they could set that EXP bar to 2 or 3 times the amount needed for a spirit shard.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> Mastery of gold giving. Donate to a city of your choice ___ gold to get a Mastery point. Can only be done once per account. This mastery point can be used for anything.

>

> Fair compromise?

 

The time you require to earn that gold can as well be used to get the Mastery Point the traditional way, no? ;)