JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"lodjur.1284" said: > You're right why would anyone pick up crappy skills like Earth Overload and Rebound on their tempest builds, clearly tempest is meant to be played without "Singularity" trained. Last time i checked you never played zerg/gvg you said you were 100% roamer so you clearly don't know much about zerg and gvg skills. In small scale and roaming, you'll encounter a WET Tempest, but in zerg/gvg all those skills are considered training wheels (with the exception of Rebound) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > You're right why would anyone pick up crappy skills like Earth Overload and Rebound on their tempest builds, clearly tempest is meant to be played without "Singularity" trained. > > Last time i checked you never played zerg/gvg you said you were 100% roamer so you clearly don't know much about zerg and gvg skills. In small scale and roaming, you'll encounter a WET Tempest, but in zerg/gvg all those skills are considered training wheels (with the exception of Rebound) > I don't even know you.... Anyway gvg/zerging is pretty simple, there's a reason I avoid it... How do you get rebound without having overload earth btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 You guys are funny, it's like you consider a Tempest as a real elite spec for Ele. It was created like 1 week before beta tests for HoT. In all honesty, it should always be capped at max 5 ppl for either support or damage, but a-net had to meme with it because of some stupid raids for casuals. I wait for the real changes, like complete redesign of this last minute elite specialization. Numbers won't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurosy.1384 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"lodjur.1284" said: > Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... Well.. if you start off with this line, you're unqualifying yourself already xD Too many things taken for granted. Also, you're being exagerately fussy while the guy was just pointing out some utility skills which are not used at a certain level because you want to prefer group-oriented skills instead of selfish life savers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 The trait change is fine. No big deal. Tempest still playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Yes, those traits and utilities are training wheels. Which he clearly needs if he's dying on a support tempest during melee pushes. Or, as i've said already, he could just git gud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just go middle (vigor grants endurance (no CD)), bottom (auras give vigor) and bottom (auras heal) instead and you should be fine. Like 10 man shouts were busted but this setup will give your party easily ton of endurance and vigor/regen upkeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibicia.8315 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Tempest was nerfed into the dirt, years ago. My tempest is a crafter, now-a-days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadtwo.9347 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 tempetuous aria nerfed with this patch is enough to discourage me to play my tempest on big scale zerg n gvg, even pugfollowing commander. if they do nerfed this, may aswell nerfed scrapper boon converter skill into something like, cleanse all condi into one boon..that will balance it. if this nerfed stay, no one need ele anymore. bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. After shock has a cast time and a delay. You cant use it during a channel. Yet you can use arcain roots at a ranged and during a channel. The logic if super flawed that 10 targets where too much for the cost of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzyp.6295 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I don't play tempest much, so perhaps I'm under-reacting here, but really this is not a terrible nerf... at all? Its also a buff for Tempest in PvE which is probably a good thing making it a more competitive choice for raids/fractals. Honestly, having five tempests being able to cover 50 people in shocking or magentic auras always felt a bit weird to me. I've always thought that Tempets's niche was suppose to be in a small parties (5 man) which is what set them apart from other support classes. It brought more of a dynamic utility to the group instead of just raw healing/damage mitigations, which kind of felt lost in zergs. When it was buffed to 10 players, I mean that was great but, I will hardly miss it. I think the other classes got hit a lot harder than Ele did this round... _for once ahem._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"fuzzyp.6295" said: > I don't play tempest much, so perhaps I'm under-reacting here, but really this is not a terrible nerf... at all? You're not underreacting. You're just completely wrong. It's nothing but one of the biggest nerfs for Elementalist supports for WvW...probably in the history of it's time in WvW since core maybe... >Its also a buff for Tempest in PvE which is probably a good thing Yes it was buffed for PVE. >making it a more competitive choice for raids/fractals. The change has no effect on fractals...but for raids and strike missions yes...epic win for raids and strikes. >Honestly, having five tempests being able to cover 50 people... ~~huh....now here you are overreacting. 50 people is not how that worked.~~ it was 10...maximum. Edit: Read that line incorrectly wierd...my bad. >... in shocking or magentic auras always felt a bit weird to me. I've always thought that Tempets's niche was suppose to be in a small parties (5 man) which is what set them apart from other support classes. It brought more of a dynamic utility to the group instead of just raw healing/damage mitigations, which kind of felt lost in zergs. When it was buffed to 10 players, I mean that was great but, I will hardly miss it. And this niche you think tempest fulfils only exists in your own world... not in the world of the game... Tempest had to compete with other classes like Scrapper and Guardian for the spot in the zerg, and those spots are not changed so long as guardian provides stability, and scrapper provides the most cleansing and exceptional healing...so Ele needed SOMETHING to deserve a spot in the group... The idea was to have it's aura's, which are Ele's unique mechanic, to be applied to 10 people instead of 5 people, justifying the removal of one scrapper for an ele in a group of 10. It was also justified by the fact that Ele could heal and do cleansing in competition with Scrapper, and this made it useful and actually "almost" meta for a while in WvW. Once February came, it received huge nerfs to it's healing and cleansing capabilities...putting it now at parity with the those other classes. How it became meta to me after that is a mystery...but from what i know, due to the overall shift in the meta, WFT Tempest became favored for it's usefulness in condition based comps...so it still had it's place in the group...this time more as a condition cleanser and buffer than so a straight healer. Now with today's patch, the healing and cleansing again received a heavy tax from this singular change (another half of it's condition cleanse output...gone.) So it's condition cleanse capability and it's 10 man target capabilities are gone...there's no longer a reason to justify it's position in a squad when guardian and scrapper are needed in the party. Not to mention that Ele just sucks now in comparison...forget about looking for a tempest...it's just not good anymore. Everything that made it useful and wanted in WvW has been taken away...and that's it for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Even in PvE it's just "okai", but not really noticeable. Look at major master traits The shouts traits , mights and weakness, no longer to 10 allies. The overload trait; something like 3sec 1 stack of stab for yourself The aura trait : regen and vigor (common boons) on auras (shared to 5 players if you play Powerful aura, not 10 like shouts) For support tempest now you can exchange Mights on shouts with REGEN ... WOW what a buff. Edit, I just want to remind : you still don't want to OVERLOAD in water, in a tempest HEALER build in pve ... because it just lengthens the CD and handicap your group for 16-20 secondes. Yeah, really great support the tempest in pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme.3164 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? This is more personal bias than factual analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis > > I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... > > All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. > > Core ele is not viable at any thing atm lol. It may of been easy vs random groups of players but in the "meta" set up of root ele vs other "meta" groups it was very hard and offten would cause more harm then good for your group. What you can do or other one player can do is not what we are talking about here as we are talking about the high number game play where one player skill dose not mader as much. An ele needs 10 targets to make the effect worth running in to land a root or your just better off running arcain wave and do it from far and over all much more harder to deal with. If all dmg skills hit just 5 targets and these dmg skills are mostly ranged what the point of ruining into a group to land a 10 target root? Your coming from a very bad mind set of 1v1 balancing and that not the game and never will be. Its a point of view that lets you be ok with any thing that dose not effect the 1v1 fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > > > > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > > > > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > > > > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis > > > > I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... > > > > All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. > > > > > > Core ele is not viable at any thing atm lol. > > It may of been easy vs random groups of players but in the "meta" set up of root ele vs other "meta" groups it was very hard and offten would cause more harm then good for your group. > > What you can do or other one player can do is not what we are talking about here as we are talking about the high number game play where one player skill dose not mader as much. An ele needs 10 targets to make the effect worth running in to land a root or your just better off running arcain wave and do it from far and over all much more harder to deal with. If all dmg skills hit just 5 targets and these dmg skills are mostly ranged what the point of ruining into a group to land a 10 target root? > > Your coming from a very bad mind set of 1v1 balancing and that not the game and never will be. Its a point of view that lets you be ok with any thing that dose not effect the 1v1 fights. Again, I haven't said anything about 1v1s. My experience is mostly in large zerg fights recently, which ele still does just fine in as a dps or support unless you can't play ele. Core ele picks up arcane over weaver, giving you access to similar damage with more immob. It's not ideal, but it can certainly still top the meter. Please enlighten me, how is ele doing more harm than good to your group? Aftershock still has 3x the immob duration of arcane and doesn't require a whole trait line to use. It still shares mag aura and protection, it's still a very strong utility to take. That you can't use it effectively speaks more to your lack of skill than a lack of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBrave.5638 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 All I can add is my real world situation. Tempest has now been removed from any comp in any wvw guild I see. People can "say" it's viable, but I guess everything is viable if you enjoy being run over in wvw and wondering "what did we do wrong there?" just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > > > > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > > > > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > > > > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > > > > > > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > > > > > > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > > > > > > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis > > > > > > I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... > > > > > > All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. > > > > > > > > > > Core ele is not viable at any thing atm lol. > > > > It may of been easy vs random groups of players but in the "meta" set up of root ele vs other "meta" groups it was very hard and offten would cause more harm then good for your group. > > > > What you can do or other one player can do is not what we are talking about here as we are talking about the high number game play where one player skill dose not mader as much. An ele needs 10 targets to make the effect worth running in to land a root or your just better off running arcain wave and do it from far and over all much more harder to deal with. If all dmg skills hit just 5 targets and these dmg skills are mostly ranged what the point of ruining into a group to land a 10 target root? > > > > Your coming from a very bad mind set of 1v1 balancing and that not the game and never will be. Its a point of view that lets you be ok with any thing that dose not effect the 1v1 fights. > > Again, I haven't said anything about 1v1s. My experience is mostly in large zerg fights recently, which ele still does just fine in as a dps or support unless you can't play ele. > > Core ele picks up arcane over weaver, giving you access to similar damage with more immob. It's not ideal, but it can certainly still top the meter. Please enlighten me, how is ele doing more harm than good to your group? > > Aftershock still has 3x the immob duration of arcane and doesn't require a whole trait line to use. It still shares mag aura and protection, it's still a very strong utility to take. That you can't use it effectively speaks more to your lack of skill than a lack of balance. So... the thing is core ele only has a hand full of major dmg effect most of them are weeker because of swaping to earth to land the root. That and now the might on fire skills removes your might when you swap out of fire might generation on the fire line is nothing so you NEED to be a tempest or weaver to pull off good dmg. Core ele is in the worst shape its ever been. You realy should understand why duration dose not mean any thing in big groups but i will enplane. The point of root and any other soft cc is to land a burst dmg hit. Due to the high clear and counter soft cc in this game you cant count on a soft cc lasting any longer then in that movement of use (less then 1 sec maybe less then .1 sec). The longer duration is meaningless and if that is being put into account of the balancing of the skill aftershock then there is a massving miss understanding of balancing in gw2 from anet. 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Jski.6180 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Ele is a dead class in wvw out side of a "fun" play and this discussion being moved from the wvw forms to ele forms (to die) is a massive point that anet wants to hide the ele class and the ele players from any view of new players of gw2. Ele is the sham of anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > Core ele picks up arcane over weaver, giving you access to similar damage with more immob. It's not ideal, but it can certainly still top the meter. Please enlighten me, how is ele doing more harm than good to your group? > > Aftershock still has 3x the immob duration of arcane and doesn't require a whole trait line to use. It still shares mag aura and protection, it's still a very strong utility to take. That you can't use it effectively speaks more to your lack of skill than a lack of balance. Eles can top the meter yes, but the majority of it's damage is mitigated by Barrier, Aegis, Protection let alone the enemy having to stand in the massive AoE field while a rev can oneshot you from out of nowhere (Not saying rev hammer is unbalanced in anyway just that Eles damage on staff is not good enough) Aftershock was fine as it was, Protection it gives is nothing compared to what Firebrand and Scrapper give, Magnetic aura is nice but there are so many other reflects in this game it hardly matters, only good thing it had was the immobilise which is irrelavent now since scrapper will just turn it into easy boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzyp.6295 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > And this niche you think tempest fulfils only exists in your own world... not in the world of the game... Tempest had to compete with other classes like Scrapper and Guardian for the spot in the zerg, and those spots are not changed so long as guardian provides stability, and scrapper provides the most cleansing and exceptional healing...so Ele needed SOMETHING to deserve a spot in the group... > > The idea was to have it's aura's, which are Ele's unique mechanic, to be applied to 10 people instead of 5 people, justifying the removal of one scrapper for an ele in a group of 10. It was also justified by the fact that Ele could heal and do cleansing in competition with Scrapper, and this made it useful and actually "almost" meta for a while in WvW. > > Once February came, it received huge nerfs to it's healing and cleansing capabilities...putting it now at parity with the those other classes. How it became meta to me after that is a mystery...but from what i know, due to the overall shift in the meta, WFT Tempest became favored for it's usefulness in condition based comps...so it still had it's place in the group...this time more as a condition cleanser and buffer than so a straight healer. > > Now with today's patch, the healing and cleansing again received a heavy tax from this singular change (another half of it's condition cleanse output...gone.) So it's condition cleanse capability and it's 10 man target capabilities are gone...there's no longer a reason to justify it's position in a squad when guardian and scrapper are needed in the party. Not to mention that Ele just sucks now in comparison...forget about looking for a tempest...it's just not good anymore. Everything that made it useful and wanted in WvW has been taken away...and that's it for it. > > I dont really see how the niche exists in "my own world" when the only game modes that can require more than 5 people are WvW Zergs and Raids (which this was effectively buffed for). Auras were always limited at 5, the cap of small teams. All of the tempests skills were set to 5 when it was released. The overloads were limited to 5 at release. It was geared to be a small team fighter in small scale and sPvP, which is where Tempest has constantly remained a shining star despite its dips through out the years. I dont get this mindset of some players. Why does every class have to "compete" for spots in a zerg? Why does Tempest need to be 'zerg approved' but specs like Thief and Ranger can't? Can't certain classes just be designed for different sorts of encounters? Tempest was designed as a small scale supportive class, not some massive heal bot like Firebrand. I'm glad ANet is finally putting it back where it belongs. Also were players really relying on Tempest for Condi Cleanse in _zergs_...? What is this 2014 lol.. all Tempest I knew were running Powerful Aura and Monk Runes because Trooper runes only effected five players anyway. But you know who did use Tempest for cleansing? ...Small scale groups! :open_mouth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" Regarding your comment to @"fuzzyp.6295" of "You're just completely wrong."... I play heal tempest. You are completely wrong with this type of reaction... "Tempest officially gutted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"fuzzyp.6295" said: > > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > > > And this niche you think tempest fulfils only exists in your own world... not in the world of the game... Tempest had to compete with other classes like Scrapper and Guardian for the spot in the zerg, and those spots are not changed so long as guardian provides stability, and scrapper provides the most cleansing and exceptional healing...so Ele needed SOMETHING to deserve a spot in the group... > > > > The idea was to have it's aura's, which are Ele's unique mechanic, to be applied to 10 people instead of 5 people, justifying the removal of one scrapper for an ele in a group of 10. It was also justified by the fact that Ele could heal and do cleansing in competition with Scrapper, and this made it useful and actually "almost" meta for a while in WvW. > > > > Once February came, it received huge nerfs to it's healing and cleansing capabilities...putting it now at parity with the those other classes. How it became meta to me after that is a mystery...but from what i know, due to the overall shift in the meta, WFT Tempest became favored for it's usefulness in condition based comps...so it still had it's place in the group...this time more as a condition cleanser and buffer than so a straight healer. > > > > Now with today's patch, the healing and cleansing again received a heavy tax from this singular change (another half of it's condition cleanse output...gone.) So it's condition cleanse capability and it's 10 man target capabilities are gone...there's no longer a reason to justify it's position in a squad when guardian and scrapper are needed in the party. Not to mention that Ele just sucks now in comparison...forget about looking for a tempest...it's just not good anymore. Everything that made it useful and wanted in WvW has been taken away...and that's it for it. > > > > > > I dont really see how the niche exists in "my own world" when the only game modes that can require more than 5 people are WvW Zergs and Raids (which this was effectively buffed for). Auras were always limited at 5, the cap of small teams. All of the tempests skills were set to 5 when it was released. The overloads were limited to 5 at release. It was geared to be a small team fighter in small scale and sPvP, which is where Tempest has constantly remained a shining star despite its dips through out the years. I dont get this mindset of some players. Why does every class have to "compete" for spots in a zerg? Why does Tempest need to be 'zerg approved' but specs like Thief and Ranger can't? Can't certain classes just be designed for different sorts of encounters? **Tempest was designed as a small scale supportive class, not some massive heal bot like Firebrand**. I'm glad ANet is finally putting it back where it belongs. > > Also were players really relying on Tempest for Condi Cleanse in _zergs_...? What is this 2014 lol.. all Tempest I knew were running Powerful Aura and Monk Runes because Trooper runes only effected five players anyway. But you know who did use Tempest for cleansing? ...Small scale groups! :open_mouth: That's actually wrong. Support specs are by design not small scale and they only become seen as such if their core class support abilities limit this support to small scale. Tempest being Ele's support spec, it's definitely focused toward a larger scale, even more with the addition of abilities like 600 radius shouts and warhorn. If you want an example of small scale support look at druid. Basically any support having access to abilities with wide area of effect is more focused toward large scale. People are mad because limiting shouts to 5 people has nothing to do with balance since it couldn't even attain support scrapper's results with 10 targets on shouts. Removing 10 targets support is fine but then Anet must nerf support abilities on scrapper to balance EDIT: FB healing isn't that great in WvW. It was behind every other support before the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzyp.6295 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 EDIT: actually, nevermind I don't really wanna get into a debate much about large scale vs small scale honestly so I just removed my post since it really seems like its just a matter of perspective. All I'll say is that Tempest will continue to thrive in small scale combat and I encourage anyone who loves Tempest to try it out in a 5 man group to see how powerful it can be outside of a zerg setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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