JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > Edit: This is also only possible because Thief is forever jailed to Trickery. If we were trying to run with only 12 ini again, then LOL have fun never being able to cast anything. You mean 10 Ini...but ya basically. We're only allowed to play one build...that is the build that anet wants us to play....do as you are told! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen.1483 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Great change. Now all the "pro" thieves with 0 knowledge will go play necro or smth else and actually good thieves will gain some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > Edit: This is also only possible because Thief is forever jailed to Trickery. If we were trying to run with only 12 ini again, then LOL have fun never being able to cast anything. > > You mean 10 Ini...but ya basically. We're only allowed to play one build...that is the build that anet wants us to play....do as you are told! you make a point but imo most skills these days should be designed closer to p/p #3 Use a skill with high cost > get some cost refunded if your hits land That would help offset the cost increases anet is doing around the board. Wile you cant do that in examples of skills like IA Many of the point cost increases on some skills are due to the play style of push x button to win or avoid. When the skills were not in check the play style of just button mashing was effective enough to annoy players at just about any skill level. Unload might not be the best example cause it requires all your hits to land to get a refund but in the case of many skills that only have one strike it would have made more sense to rebalance the cost with a on hit return system. You do bring up a very good point though that they are only further locking down the idea that you must run trickery which is not exactly a good thing. At the same time the moment something gets out of line people just default to press x button for reward. Thief is in a tough spot. Keep in mind what im saying applies to general thief skills not specifically IA I have mixed feelings about the cost increase on IA. But from what i can read so far alot of people want mobility lowered so... ehhh i cant really say too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 The inf nerf will certainly hurt thieves, but I don't see it actually changing anything in the way of what builds thieves run or what class is preferred for roaming for the most part. There's still no class that has mobility like thief, even with less inf arrow casts. There's still no better weapon swap for the best builds because the mobility is still amazing. It's also still a very strong weapon for its other skills. I can't say that I entirely agree with this nerf, but I think it's one of those nerfs that people will forget about for the most part in a few months since it's not likely to shift the meta much. It just gives non-thieves a bit more chance to stay in line with rotations or prevent decaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren.1064 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > The inf nerf will certainly hurt thieves, but I don't see it actually changing anything in the way of what builds thieves run or what class is preferred for roaming for the most part. > > There's still no class that has mobility like thief, even with less inf arrow casts. There's still no better weapon swap for the best builds because the mobility is still amazing. It's also still a very strong weapon for its other skills. > > I can't say that I entirely agree with this nerf, but I think it's one of those nerfs that people will forget about for the most part in a few months since it's not likely to shift the meta much. It just gives non-thieves a bit more chance to stay in line with rotations or prevent decaps. Combine infiltrator's nerf with the signet of agility, and thief is a free kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghos.1326 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 These thief tears are so yummy. LEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Just nerf the ini on all the other weapons and shortbow will be good again. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"darren.1064" said: > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > The inf nerf will certainly hurt thieves, but I don't see it actually changing anything in the way of what builds thieves run or what class is preferred for roaming for the most part. > > > > There's still no class that has mobility like thief, even with less inf arrow casts. There's still no better weapon swap for the best builds because the mobility is still amazing. It's also still a very strong weapon for its other skills. > > > > I can't say that I entirely agree with this nerf, but I think it's one of those nerfs that people will forget about for the most part in a few months since it's not likely to shift the meta much. It just gives non-thieves a bit more chance to stay in line with rotations or prevent decaps. > > Combine infiltrator's nerf with the signet of agility, and thief is a free kill. Only against players who don't know how to adapt. It doesn't take much for a thief to disengage from a fight if they get focused, so at most this will mean they need to dip out a bit sooner if they are relying on those skills for an escape. Outside of that, it just means that they travel from one point to another just a bit slower. Doesn't actually make them any easier to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiwk.2760 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeqkOneStylez.8047 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Yo remove the port back on shadowstep real quick? lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Armen.1483" said: > Great change. Now all the "pro" thieves with 0 knowledge will go play necro or smth else and actually good thieves will gain some respect. which is actually scary cuz i hate fighting good teefs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Vavume.8065" said: > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. A lot of people are of the mindset that thief should stick in place and take a punch like a heavy armor class tank. Doesn't really do good for their image, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollbirtan.2915 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 The only thing this patch did, is just make playing certain builds less enjoyable. No changes to meta whatsoever, Big IQ balance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiwk.2760 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > > > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. > > > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. > > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone > > In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder. they do low numbers but fast.. their damage really isnt bad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > > > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. > > > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. > > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone > > In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder. And thief has to go berserker to have similar damage to what it had using marauders before February....These days a marauder amulet backstab hits maybe 3k tops lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > > > > > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. > > > > > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. > > > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone > > > > In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder. > > they do low numbers but fast.. their damage really isnt bad.. Actually, that 5k is the entire damage of backstab burst. Thats it, after that theyd have to launch another attack. It usually takes a thief a couple seconds just to match the damage a reaper does in one hit. Their damage is *very* bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GewRoo.4172 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? You want more? lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SB is already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief has gotten MANY damage nerfs to the past because of it's 'OP' mobility. THAT is why it's extremely upsetting that all that kitten is just down the drain while they nerf mobility too and give nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > The dmg nerfs to some weapons, dagger in particular, may seen to much now I agree. But I dont think thief needs anything more except for some minor number adjustments here and there, because what truly needs to happen is for the still overperforming classes/specs to be brought down. > > > > > > > > sorry if im honest daredevil still does crazy burst damage.. while having stealth to poof out once he done its burst.. most classes have been nerfed and most people try to go bunker now to survive against annoying stealth daredevil who burst them down out of no where.. if im honest thief is the most cancer build to play against in pvp.. and im kind of sad they did not remove some of the stealth or rework stelth.. i think daredevil damage is actually pretty good.. > > > > a + 1 class with best mobility in game and no cd stealth and so many evades and what not.. shouldnt do damage like a necro or like any other class really.. and yet their damage is still pretty high... thieves just want to kill everyone > > > > > > In what world is 5k on your hardest hitting skill (and a lot less on your regular skills) "Crazy burst damage"? Bloody hell. Thief damage is pathetic. Theyre still incredibly good because theyre so fast they can decap and +1 better than anyone else, and you dont need much damage for that, but to say that their damage is anything other than really low is silly. They dont do nearly as much damage as *any* other class. Necro hits a *lot* harder. > > > > they do low numbers but fast.. their damage really isnt bad.. > > Actually, that 5k is the entire damage of backstab burst. Thats it, after that theyd have to launch another attack. It usually takes a thief a couple seconds just to match the damage a reaper does in one hit. Their damage is *very* bad. Dude this guy wasn't even playing pre feb patch xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggityzog.7389 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Best part about it that it made the cost of the infiltrator arrorw into more of a elite weapon skill status. You should not be able to teleport across half the map in just 3 #5 skill uses. How about take like 500 off the range and we'll talk about giving back the lessened initiative. It was a broken skill since launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GewRoo.4172 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > Best part about it that it made the cost of the infiltrator arrorw into more of a elite weapon skill status. You should not be able to teleport across half the map in just 3 #5 skill uses. How about take like 500 off the range and we'll talk about giving bake the lessened initiative. > > It was a broken skill since launch. Would have been a reasonable idea honestly but they pulled an ANet you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > It was a broken skill since launch. And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggityzog.7389 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > > It was a broken skill since launch. > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? Umm give nothing back? It's a well deserved nerf with no gain like how things with other classes are nerfed with no gain. They could have cut the range in half but but instead they went the the route of making it a elite weapon skill with the cost. Good second idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > > > It was a broken skill since launch. > > > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? > > Umm give nothing back? It's a well deserved nerf with no gain like how things with other classes are nerfed with no gain. > > They could have cut the range in half but but instead they went the the route of making it a elite weapon skill with the cost. Good second idea. Or you could ignore what I wrote. Just another thief QQer mindlessly celebrating lol but what could I expect from a guy with a reaper avatar. Players escaping you are basically breaking the game, they're supposed to stand in my melee/AoE wtf!! /s Here it is so you can read it again (and by again, I mean the first time): > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. which is a huge problem. i hope they start buffing classes (mostly) across the board, but, ya know... its that fingers crossed meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondor.2904 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said: > > It was a broken skill since launch. > > And thief as a class was balanced around having that skill since launch. That means many nerfs to make sure thief is not roaming the map with too much firepower in exchange for that mobility. What do you plan on giving back to thief since they took away the primary reason for many balance changes? Let me guess, nothing? Half of the other specs in the game:  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now