Azazel.7536 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 > Yesterday, a group of about 10 of us were killing one ranger. He got away. He was THAT tanky and elusive and he just permahealed. And i'm not talking about a noob group, those were some WvW veterans, and the team composition was kinda half half support/dps. 10 of us couldn't get one ranger. How is that Ok? He wasn't even "good" or something, he just shrugged off damage like it was nothing, and no matter how "good" you are, when 10 people focus you - you die. > > After that, sometime later, there was this daredevil. No one could touch him. Just permaevade, shadowstep, portal, evade, evade, shadowstep, evade, evade, evade... In this case, i admit the player was good, but the point is - Mirage lost a dodge because it "evaded too much" or whatever. Then what's this kitten with daredevls then? Not only that but, he did good damage. If a mesmer want's to do something so well, you can forget about other aspects. Classes like this can have it all and sacrifice nothing. > > But hey, at least we're kinda ok at boonstrips and we still have a pull... > > Torture is the right word, i fully agree. Definitely. That is the aspect I hate about being a mesmer - other professions literally require lesser effort to pull off an effective combo using several keybinds while I need to have Continuum Split ready for every single encounter to be relevant :D and that is the most irritating thing. In PVE I am literally the slowest particle when it comes to dealing with stuff, because, not only does the mesmer have a very limited field range (basically focuses the damage onto the target where the clones spawn), it also happens they very often fail to deliver hit, miss, or disappear before you shatter them. It is like playing a profession with half the potential. You need to think way too much in the process, and it does not even pay off really, while certain professions just keep smashin one key and spin-win the hell out of it. I would love to say that I am proud of choosing the class because I can honestly say I have put a LOT of time understanding its mechanics since I am mostly mesmer-exclusive player, but seeing that it would take 1/4 the time to achieve the same output with a ranger or a thief with much more efficiency in return makes me kinda frustrated. And yea lol, mirage...People could come back and throw a shame at us that "Are you stupid or what? Mirage is annoying as hell and you keep saying mesmer is bad? F--- off" or so...but daaaayum, mirage was out for like 3 months before severe nerfs happened to it and even worse happened later to both chrono and mirage, ever since then they have been reduced to crap :D You would expect at least an equivalent of compensation for such nerf but nope, they take 5 things away and replace them with one useless addition. As a chrono, I basically cannot really put together a trio of traitlines to make it as effective as I would, because for me, Domi (for GS) is necesarry and Duel (for the sake of crit rate) is a MUST if I want to be at least a little bit dps-relevant. But then, I would also love to have Illusions since they offer pretty badass bonuses for clones, but as I said, I wanna be a chrono so that does not somehow fit the maths :D Mesmer would literally have to use all the traitlines at once to be on par with other professions :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 > @"Azazel.7536" said: > > Yesterday, a group of about 10 of us were killing one ranger. He got away. He was THAT tanky and elusive and he just permahealed. And i'm not talking about a noob group, those were some WvW veterans, and the team composition was kinda half half support/dps. 10 of us couldn't get one ranger. How is that Ok? He wasn't even "good" or something, he just shrugged off damage like it was nothing, and no matter how "good" you are, when 10 people focus you - you die. > > > > After that, sometime later, there was this daredevil. No one could touch him. Just permaevade, shadowstep, portal, evade, evade, shadowstep, evade, evade, evade... In this case, i admit the player was good, but the point is - Mirage lost a dodge because it "evaded too much" or whatever. Then what's this kitten with daredevls then? Not only that but, he did good damage. If a mesmer want's to do something so well, you can forget about other aspects. Classes like this can have it all and sacrifice nothing. > > > > But hey, at least we're kinda ok at boonstrips and we still have a pull... > > > > Torture is the right word, i fully agree. > > Definitely. That is the aspect I hate about being a mesmer - other professions literally require lesser effort to pull off an effective combo using several keybinds while I need to have Continuum Split ready for every single encounter to be relevant :D and that is the most irritating thing. In PVE I am literally the slowest particle when it comes to dealing with stuff, because, not only does the mesmer have a very limited field range (basically focuses the damage onto the target where the clones spawn), it also happens they very often fail to deliver hit, miss, or disappear before you shatter them. It is like playing a profession with half the potential. You need to think way too much in the process, and it does not even pay off really, while certain professions just keep smashin one key and spin-win the hell out of it. I would love to say that I am proud of choosing the class because I can honestly say I have put a LOT of time understanding its mechanics since I am mostly mesmer-exclusive player, but seeing that it would take 1/4 the time to achieve the same output with a ranger or a thief with much more efficiency in return makes me kinda frustrated. > > And yea lol, mirage...People could come back and throw a shame at us that "Are you stupid or what? Mirage is annoying as hell and you keep saying mesmer is bad? F--- off" or so...but daaaayum, mirage was out for like 3 months before severe nerfs happened to it and even worse happened later to both chrono and mirage, ever since then they have been reduced to kitten :D You would expect at least an equivalent of compensation for such nerf but nope, they take 5 things away and replace them with one useless addition. As a chrono, I basically cannot really put together a trio of traitlines to make it as effective as I would, because for me, Domi (for GS) is necesarry and Duel (for the sake of crit rate) is a MUST if I want to be at least a little bit dps-relevant. But then, I would also love to have Illusions since they offer pretty kitten bonuses for clones, but as I said, I wanna be a chrono so that does not somehow fit the maths :D Mesmer would literally have to use all the traitlines at once to be on par with other professions :D :D Well said. They took away too much and left us with nothing to choose from. And indeed, it always feels like you're one trait line too short to be on par with other classes. I play Chrono, full Minstrel's support in WvW. It's tanky enough and so far i like it. But most of the skills take WAY too long to cast for minimal gains, AND they can miss on top of that, so i have to do way too much math in my head on what and where to do in order to be effective. Like chrono Wells for example. You can make them heal but ONLY when they end. WHY? Why isn't healing on the first pulse, and the well's own mechanic on the third? That would make them infinitely more usable as a Chrono mechanic. Mantras can heal, but they heal for almost nothing AND take 3 seconds to cast. After that, the fully powered mantra effect doesn't heal. It can boonstrip, but as i'm hitting people with it (the daze mantra coupled with the boonstrip trait in domination), they always seem to be immune, yet the mantra is supposed to affect up to 5 people. It doesn't! It's a bug! Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. Why not on first, then max heal on first, and subsequent lesser healings on 2nd and 3rd? It's just so unnecesarily contrived. Shatters can also heal and clense conditions as well as boonstrip but you'll never have any clones active in WvW fights because they die as soon as they're summoned. And i won't even go into the DPS aspects of the class and how even worse that part is. Meanwhile, other classes can achieve the same result and never miss with their abilities by just spamming 3 buttons. Yet Mesmers are OP. And this all because anet only listened to whiners when doing balance patches it seems because the way Mesmer is now, i think they never looked at Mesmers as a whole, and their trait lines and skills, because if they did, they'd see that most of them are either too big of a tradeoff between them, or too highly situational to be consistent. And i do have fun playing the class still, but there's only so much you can take until it feels like you're being punished for playing a certain class over others. Naturally, after a while, it gets old and i can see why people quit or change mains or whatever. Hopefully Anet will right the wrongs they did to Mesmers, but i'm not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing. > > I'm sorry but as much as i read this sentance, i can't figure out what you wanted to say. Can you rephrase it? Or explain more? I don't know what you mean just from that or what you're referring to. > you say that this is problem. The water is water is wet problem too? no, this is from start and as should. > One more example: now start play wiht warrior, per 10 fights how much mesmers I kill ? Answer: 0 And on 1: 1 Wiht in total sumary have have win rate 50% aprox > It is absoliutly anticlass for my biuld. Should I make new discussion on forum and cry about that ? NO. I proud our pvp system. > so what you are saying that mesmer hard-counters you. and despite that you have 50% winrate against mesmers. and due to that you consider fine? do you know how many mesmers I kill per fight? 0, since nobody fucking plays mesmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 > @"Kirrund.2654" said: > Here's the most recent one I saw that someone posted on reddit. > This legit pissed me off big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 > @"Yoci.2481" said: > Good bye GW2. I gave them over two years to fix Mesmer. Turns out it was two years too many. See you in a different game maybe. I understand how you feel. I considered doing the same and still really don't plan on buying the expac if they don't address one dodge before hand, not to mention fix missing traits and such. That said, I still manage to have some fun playing even if I am often frustrated/pissed about the present state of things Mesmer. Anyway, I hope you take a nice break and come back when you are ready. Either way, have a good life. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazel.7536 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > Well said. They took away too much and left us with nothing to choose from. And indeed, it always feels like you're one trait line too short to be on par with other classes. I play Chrono, full Minstrel's support in WvW. It's tanky enough and so far i like it. But most of the skills take WAY too long to cast for minimal gains, AND they can miss on top of that, so i have to do way too much math in my head on what and where to do in order to be effective. Like chrono Wells for example. You can make them heal but ONLY when they end. WHY? Why isn't healing on the first pulse, and the well's own mechanic on the third? That would make them infinitely more usable as a Chrono mechanic. Mantras can heal, but they heal for almost nothing AND take 3 seconds to cast. After that, the fully powered mantra effect doesn't heal. It can boonstrip, but as i'm hitting people with it (the daze mantra coupled with the boonstrip trait in domination), they always seem to be immune, yet the mantra is supposed to affect up to 5 people. It doesn't! It's a bug! Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. Why not on first, then max heal on first, and subsequent lesser healings on 2nd and 3rd? It's just so unnecesarily contrived. Shatters can also heal and clense conditions as well as boonstrip but you'll never have any clones active in WvW fights because they die as soon as they're summoned. And i won't even go into the DPS aspects of the class and how even worse that part is. > > Meanwhile, other classes can achieve the same result and never miss with their abilities by just spamming 3 buttons. Yet Mesmers are OP. And this all because anet only listened to whiners when doing balance patches it seems because the way Mesmer is now, i think they never looked at Mesmers as a whole, and their trait lines and skills, because if they did, they'd see that most of them are either too big of a tradeoff between them, or too highly situational to be consistent. > > And i do have fun playing the class still, but there's only so much you can take until it feels like you're being punished for playing a certain class over others. Naturally, after a while, it gets old and i can see why people quit or change mains or whatever. Hopefully Anet will right the wrongs they did to Mesmers, but i'm not holding my breath. Yea, totally agree. ANet feels like a company where each member plays a profession but none of them really plays mesmer, so they are like "people are complaining about mesmer elite spec, let's nerf it" without even testing it. I can honestly say, like..RIGHT NOW, that whatever the new spec in End of Dragons will be, playerbase will scream 20 seconds before the release of the expansion to "NERF MESMER"... it's these people who do not want to have their profession screwed up, so bunch of nerfs are all accumulated into mesmer who is getting hate for no reason. People do not realize that mesmer, when it comes to difficulty, is among the hardest ones to manage and only really good people can pull off efficient results. I have been playing it for 5 years and still feel as a newb because I still tend to miss something due to its shi.tt.y mechanics. The speed of my fingers searching for the right combo in the keyboard has got to be literally twice as quick as any other class, because I also have 3 fragile summons to keep in mind, shattering them in the right moment, because otherwise I would be screwed. I am not denying that other professions require sufficient amount of time to be learnt properly, but mesmer feels like the challenge you are willing to take for satisfactory rewards but it eventually turns out to be the worst sh1t of them all. It is like climbing the Chalice of Tears for the first time, expecting exclusive rewards and eventually you get the same cr.ap as any other chest in the game. Nevertheless, I still enjoy mesmer for its uniqueness, and I do not care what will be the role of the new elite spec, whether supportive or offensive, I will take it, unless they do the same bull**** with it as what they did with previous ones. At this point, they should really focus on the role of clones in the gameplay because they are totally undermined when it comes to survivability. They are totally weak themselves, so having them explode at least for a little damage when your enemy destroys them would be a nice bonus. And I hope they will finally take into account other professions too because they have taken half the potential from mesmer and put it in other professions (alacrity, portals, etc...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazel.7536 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... I am not sure but I think they are leaning toward some heavy tank elite with mesmer in the following expac, cause why would have they screwed the chrono tankiness that much otherwise? Also, mesmer has been given one-handed weapons so far in both elite specs, so this time they will probably unlock a two-handed weapon, and if it were so, I believe it would be hammer (to fit the tank even better) :D . Cause going for rifle would be kinda wild idea for mesmer :D although, a sneaking sniper with illusions does not sound bad at all :D I have heard people saying the next elite should be a bard - a natural buffer, but I believe that spot is taken by Ranger, since its first elite was healer, next one was offense, this time could possibly be some kind of boon support. Also majority of games actually provides Ranger-types of classes with Bard specs, so...Dunno, but I am truly wondering what the revelations will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heika.5403 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"Azazel.7536" said: > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > I am not sure but I think they are leaning toward some heavy tank elite with mesmer in the following expac, cause why would have they screwed the chrono tankiness that much otherwise? Also, mesmer has been given one-handed weapons so far in both elite specs, so this time they will probably unlock a two-handed weapon, and if it were so, I believe it would be hammer (to fit the tank even better) :D . Cause going for rifle would be kinda wild idea for mesmer :D although, a sneaking sniper with illusions does not sound bad at all :D I have heard people saying the next elite should be a bard - a natural buffer, but I believe that spot is taken by Ranger, since its first elite was healer, next one was offense, this time could possibly be some kind of boon support. Also majority of games actually provides Ranger-types of classes with Bard specs, so...Dunno, but I am truly wondering what the revelations will be > Mesmer + support or healer? Meh, it'll be hated equally. Besides not being considered what a mesmer should represent. I doubt it would be an offensive support with lots of CC and a buffer with decent damage. Anyways, it'd be "tweaked" in the following patches, hit less than a fly and no one would play it after that. More of the same. Cursed. Time to time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazel.7536 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > Mesmer + support or healer? Meh, it'll be hated equally. Besides not being considered what a mesmer should represent. I doubt it would be an offensive support with lots of CC and a buffer with decent damage. Anyways, it'd be "tweaked" in the following patches, hit less than a fly and no one would play it after that. More of the same. Cursed. > > Time to time... Well I would not like another support mesmer either, if it were for me, I would wanna go a pure Power DPS this time :D Gimme a hammer so I can spin-win and bump into everything around :D :D would be a nice twist for power-based builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 > @"Azazel.7536" said: > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > I am not sure but I think they are leaning toward some heavy tank elite with mesmer in the following expac, cause why would have they screwed the chrono tankiness that much otherwise? Also, mesmer has been given one-handed weapons so far in both elite specs, so this time they will probably unlock a two-handed weapon, and if it were so, I believe it would be hammer (to fit the tank even better) :D . Cause going for rifle would be kinda wild idea for mesmer :D although, a sneaking sniper with illusions does not sound bad at all :D I have heard people saying the next elite should be a bard - a natural buffer, but I believe that spot is taken by Ranger, since its first elite was healer, next one was offense, this time could possibly be some kind of boon support. Also majority of games actually provides Ranger-types of classes with Bard specs, so...Dunno, but I am truly wondering what the revelations will be > I'd much rather they return Chrono to it's support capabilites like it used to, with additional boonstrip and condi clense, but lower its power. Mirage should be condi DPS and *freaking return the dodge*, and i'd like the new elite to be some kind of power DPS. Rifle sounds nice! :smile: But that doesn't even address the core traits that are in dire need of a rework because any elite that comes up as well as exisiting ones are still going to have to deal with way underpowered core trait lines as well as utilites and weapon skills. They need to look at the Mesmer as a whole, then start deciding on an action and for god's sake, no more nerfs, i don't think i can take more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... I think there's two elements in play here: First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 "_The game doesn't work how I think it should ... I'm leaving_" Yup, you shouldn't play ANY game that doesn't work how you want. GL finding a game unless you pay someone to make you one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. > > PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. Well they already have the tools available, i mean, they can set each skill to behave differently per game mode. They just need to put in the work. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"hammu.1752" said: > > IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still. > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > wvw -> worst class in the game > > > > AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > > > > > > name a worse class then mesmer for wvw then? Thief. It has no real purpose outside of harassing roamers. Its ability to zoom around the map taking camps is matched by any condi build with a warclaw.. Its damage is easily countered in zergs by stacking. Scrapper provides better stealth. Ranger has better immobs. Etc... I guess it can hide indefinitely in keeps better than Mesmer because it has perma stealth, and it can also portal 5 people in. So fun waiting for people to come help take the keep so you dont have dps an iron hided mob by yourself. They are welcome to take that role from us. edit: forgot to mention sentries/target painters/target painter traps revealing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > > > > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > > > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > > > > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > > > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > > > > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > > > > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. > > > > PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. > > Well they already have the tools available, i mean, they can set each skill to behave differently per game mode. They just need to put in the work. :smile: They only change the numbers, not the base functionality, though. They're not going to make a skill front-loaded in WvW and back-loaded in other modes. I think there's a degree to which chronomancer wells just aren't really designed for supporting zergs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > > > > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > > > > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > > > > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > > > > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > > > > > > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > > > > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > > > > > > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > > > > > > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. > > > > > > PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. > > > > Well they already have the tools available, i mean, they can set each skill to behave differently per game mode. They just need to put in the work. :smile: > > They only change the numbers, not the base functionality, though. They're not going to make a skill front-loaded in WvW and back-loaded in other modes. > > I think there's a degree to which chronomancer wells just aren't really designed for supporting zergs. They've already changed how certain skills work several times. Bubble used to follow warriors, now it's static, it used to be charged, now it's instant cast. Mirage had 2 dodges, now it has only 1. Traits had mechanic changes, not just numerical a lot of times. Clearly the tools to change the skills are there but the fact that they're only changing numbers is just showing lazy balancing in form of a band aid. They **can** change the wells if they want, but that would require more work than just changing the numbers on skills. The whole mesmer profession needs a rework, and they **can** do it, but they either don't know what to change and how, or they're lazy or something else, i don't know. I doubt they're lazy, so they probably don't know what to do with mesmers and just leave them nerfed to the ground so no one complains. Which is a big slap on the face to the mesmer community and they should treat us better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"hammu.1752" said: > > > IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still. > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > wvw -> worst class in the game > > > > > > AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > > > > > > > > > > name a worse class then mesmer for wvw then? > > Thief. > It has no real purpose outside of harassing roamers. Its ability to zoom around the map taking camps is matched by any condi build with a warclaw.. Its damage is easily countered in zergs by stacking. Scrapper provides better stealth. Ranger has better immobs. Etc... > > I guess it can hide indefinitely in keeps better than Mesmer because it has perma stealth, and it can also portal 5 people in. So fun waiting for people to come help take the keep so you dont have dps an iron hided mob by yourself. They are welcome to take that role from us. > > edit: forgot to mention sentries/target painters/target painter traps revealing you. exept DE is one of the best roamers, and in zergs mesmer is equally shit to thief, its competition between thiefs stealth stacking + shadow portaling into keeps vs mesmer focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Nicolo.2418" said: > i have to admit - you are absolutly right while you talk about (power mesmer) As revenant you have not only a lot of dodge ..the all in all sustain is pretty high compare to mesmer for example. Sword 4 and 5 are borken... hitting ppl with 9k+ deathstrike is obviously stupid. But every class except power mesmer can play like that... longbow ranger / soulbeast can oneshot you and has a lot of sustain - burn guard , dh , reaper , etc... 50% what you see in this video is movement and outplaying the enemy.. with which class you are doing that is not rly important as long as it has enough dmg and all in all sustain (invul / dodge / cc/ movement skills)| The problem is that the Coefficient nerfs hit how Power Mesmer is played the hardest. It hit alot of Power builds, but Mesmer and Thief are the only two builds which relied on 100 > 0 someone in order to "win" All other Power builds do really great damage, but require some form of aggressive pressure in order to pull off. Mesmer and Thief are the only two which relies on hitting that huge burst, then backing off and waiting on cooldowns and utilities in order to make another attempt. While Thief can "try" infinitely, Mesmer can absolutely not. If they fail their burst, they are essentially stuck running around for a bit, relying on Sword/Torch, Shatter 4 and utilities to buy time and survive before they can make another attempt. If they fail it AGAIN, they are EXTRA screwed because they now have little to no defensives left for them to buy time with before their next attempt. If yu see any Mesmer fail 2 rounds of burst, they are essentially free food because they can't even defend themselves if yu push the aggression. Any Profession that can gap close and stick to the Mesmer will dominate it and it can't fight back. That's the big problem with Power Mesmer right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > > > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > > > > > > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > > > > > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > > > > > > > > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > > > > > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > > > > > > > > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. > > > > > > > > PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. > > > > > > Well they already have the tools available, i mean, they can set each skill to behave differently per game mode. They just need to put in the work. :smile: > > > > They only change the numbers, not the base functionality, though. They're not going to make a skill front-loaded in WvW and back-loaded in other modes. > > > > I think there's a degree to which chronomancer wells just aren't really designed for supporting zergs. > > They've already changed how certain skills work several times. Bubble used to follow warriors, now it's static, it used to be charged, now it's instant cast. Mirage had 2 dodges, now it has only 1. Traits had mechanic changes, not just numerical a lot of times. Clearly the tools to change the skills are there but the fact that they're only changing numbers is just showing lazy balancing in form of a band aid. They **can** change the wells if they want, but that would require more work than just changing the numbers on skills. The whole mesmer profession needs a rework, and they **can** do it, but they either don't know what to change and how, or they're lazy or something else, i don't know. I doubt they're lazy, so they probably don't know what to do with mesmers and just leave them nerfed to the ground so no one complains. Which is a big slap on the face to the mesmer community and they should treat us better. They can change how skills work, but _only_ if they want to go the whole way and change how the skill works in _all_ modes. _They won't have a skill work differently in different modes_ (apart from number changes). This is something they've been clear about, multiple times. They'll change the numbers in a split, but they won't change the functionality, because they want someone moving from one mode to another to be able to know what their skills are going to do (as opposed to GW1, which did have some skill splits where the functionality was completely changed and which caused confusion as a result). So it's either leaving wells as they are, which is having an interesting interaction with Continuum Split at the cost of being a bit awkward in some WvW situations. Or they could toss out the baby with the bathwater and rework the wells for the sake of WvW and break that interaction in _all_ game modes, something which PvE chronomancers and the few sPvP chronomancers still around might well regard as a nerf. They are _not_ going to have wells that have a big effect when the well expires in some modes, while in other modes they have that effect immediately when the well is placed. Skill splits between modes only change the numbers, not the functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"hammu.1752" said: > > > > IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still. > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > wvw -> worst class in the game > > > > > > > > AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name a worse class then mesmer for wvw then? > > > > Thief. > > It has no real purpose outside of harassing roamers. Its ability to zoom around the map taking camps is matched by any condi build with a warclaw.. Its damage is easily countered in zergs by stacking. Scrapper provides better stealth. Ranger has better immobs. Etc... > > > > I guess it can hide indefinitely in keeps better than Mesmer because it has perma stealth, and it can also portal 5 people in. So fun waiting for people to come help take the keep so you dont have dps an iron hided mob by yourself. They are welcome to take that role from us. > > > > edit: forgot to mention sentries/target painters/target painter traps revealing you. > > exept DE is one of the best roamers, and in zergs mesmer is equally kitten to thief, its competition between thiefs stealth stacking + shadow portaling into keeps vs mesmer focus Great, enjoy being "one of the best roamers" and having little purpose in a zerg. Mesmers are used quite often in zergs for ranged cc, boon strip, and illusion of life. And yes, for veil for when you don't have enough scrappers/blasters in each party. There is no competition between thieves and mesmers in a zerg. A thief is probably fighting with rangers to have a spot. And I don't see why you would bring a thief over a ranger. Ranger has better damage, better lockdown, and can also bring a smoke field. Hiding in stealth in structures is not participating in a zerg. It is PvE. And the portal only works on five so you wouldn't be able to use it with a zerg without getting a mesmer in. So the thief gets to enjoy waiting around. While the mesmer gets to play in the zerg. And then build swap to a PvE build to get the entire zerg in and give out 10+ alacrity and quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > > > Healing well too, removes a condition on the 3rd pulse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not how Well of Eternity works. The caster gets a heal initially when they cast the well, then each pulse removes a condition from allies in the area, and when it ends it provides an area heal. Which can still be a little clunky, but I think part of the idea behind wells is to benefit from Continuum Split ending before the well does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah so it removes conditions with each pulse? That's nice. I didn't notice it working like that in WvW much, but it's cool if it's like that. Still, i think the big area heal that's at the end should happen first, then the rest. Kind of reverse. And with All's Well that ends well trait, the heling should happen at the beginning. > > > > > > > > We'll see what Anet has in store for mesmers though so... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there's two elements in play here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, as I mentioned, it's intended to work with Continuum Split. Put a well or two on top of where you're going to return to, end the split before the wells finish, and you get those back-loaded benefits almost for free, and can recast those wells to get them _again_ afterwards. If you front-load the effects, they go away when you end Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, the general principle with the chronomancer is that it's _supposed_ to be able to survive for a few seconds before the well goes off. Losing Distortion certainly hurts in this respect, but there's still shield, Well of Precognition, CC, and blocks on core mesmer available to helps survive for a few seconds before the well completes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's certainly true that making the wells more front-loaded would lower their skill floor, but it might lower their skill ceiling as well by removing their synergy with Continuum Split. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a good argument for why wells work this way, but i think you're considering it more from a PvE perspective. > > > > > > Which is fine, nothing wrong about that, but Anet made more modes than just PvE, and whatever they design has to work in all of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you try predicting where to Continuum split and put well so they can heal your squad sub-party and yourself and give everyone their benefits in a squad of 50 people mid fighting another squad of 50 people. Even if you place them predictively, there's no telling if in a split second your commander will decide to move in another direction in response to whatever the enemy squad is doing. > > > > > > Doesn't work anymore now does it? No other profession has to deal with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, Anet is balancing the skills and traits per game mode now, as they should, and i agree, having front loaded effects on wells would lower the skill floor and ceilling considerably in PvE. But in WvW? It would just make them *work*. But in PvE, they're fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe in WvW if they replace Continuum split with Distortion, or just add distortion it would be better. In WvW you mostly use Continuum split to get an extra cast of 1 thing because you'll never have enough clones to shatter, they die instantly, so you can never use Continuum split's entire duration. In addition to that. Moving to a previous location with Continuum Split is undesirable because you need to stay on tag, that's where all the heals, clenses and boons are. If you even use CS fully powered, you get off tag and you'll probably die. > > > > > > > > > > PvE, sPvP, small-scale WvW even. Large-scale WvW was acknowledged a long time ago as being such an extreme mode that they'd probably never really be able to fully balance it, just hit the things that were serious problems. > > > > > > > > Well they already have the tools available, i mean, they can set each skill to behave differently per game mode. They just need to put in the work. :smile: > > > > > > They only change the numbers, not the base functionality, though. They're not going to make a skill front-loaded in WvW and back-loaded in other modes. > > > > > > I think there's a degree to which chronomancer wells just aren't really designed for supporting zergs. > > > > They've already changed how certain skills work several times. Bubble used to follow warriors, now it's static, it used to be charged, now it's instant cast. Mirage had 2 dodges, now it has only 1. Traits had mechanic changes, not just numerical a lot of times. Clearly the tools to change the skills are there but the fact that they're only changing numbers is just showing lazy balancing in form of a band aid. They **can** change the wells if they want, but that would require more work than just changing the numbers on skills. The whole mesmer profession needs a rework, and they **can** do it, but they either don't know what to change and how, or they're lazy or something else, i don't know. I doubt they're lazy, so they probably don't know what to do with mesmers and just leave them nerfed to the ground so no one complains. Which is a big slap on the face to the mesmer community and they should treat us better. > > They can change how skills work, but _only_ if they want to go the whole way and change how the skill works in _all_ modes. _They won't have a skill work differently in different modes_ (apart from number changes). This is something they've been clear about, multiple times. They'll change the numbers in a split, but they won't change the functionality, because they want someone moving from one mode to another to be able to know what their skills are going to do (as opposed to GW1, which did have some skill splits where the functionality was completely changed and which caused confusion as a result). > > So it's either leaving wells as they are, which is having an interesting interaction with Continuum Split at the cost of being a bit awkward in some WvW situations. Or they could toss out the baby with the bathwater and rework the wells for the sake of WvW and break that interaction in _all_ game modes, something which PvE chronomancers and the few sPvP chronomancers still around might well regard as a nerf. They are _not_ going to have wells that have a big effect when the well expires in some modes, while in other modes they have that effect immediately when the well is placed. Skill splits between modes only change the numbers, not the functionality. Changing wells is literally a number change. PvE 1st 2 hits hit for 5, last hit 10. WvW, first hit hits for 10, last 2 for 5. Totally confusing am I right? Most people wouldnt know the difference because PvE players almost never touch WvW, and those who play WvW use different builds in PvE. Only the numbers need to change, I'm not sure why you're blowing this so out of proportion and defending anet. It's their game. They can do whatever they want to it, theres no real reason that they can't change something. Its only like you said, they dont want to. But it might be needed to balance the profession and get it back in line with how other professions feel and how strong they are. They **can** change a simple mechanic numerically, or even the functionality, which btw, is also just a numerical change as far as engine is concerned, they dont have to write a whole new code just to switch well pulses around. And the skill would feel different in both modes. But that's the point. If something needs changing to get In line with other professions, then no excuse is valid enough to not at least try. But this goes beyond just wells, no need to get stuck on that discussion longer than necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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