I have got enough!

[Woltarion.6829]

lol the rotation is even taking into account the possible bug. Don't forget that this rotation reach maximum damage if ennemy is slowed.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> lol the rotation is even taking into account the possible bug. Don't forget that this rotation reach maximum damage if ennemy is slowed.

 

Yeah, haha, you have to literally cheat the system to actually pull this off or you might get bugged lol. :tongue:

What a joke. And people still think mesmers are OP.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > > @"Jables.4659" said:

> > > > > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > > > Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To be fair, Chrono can output a ridiculous amount of damage on a glass build and it is fairly effective if you aren't being targeted. Against bad teams or teams that don't take the Chrono seriously you can literally destroy the opposing team. The issue is that when you're up against people who know what they're doing and hard target you Chrono falls apart very quickly. It needs distortion for spvp.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's not forget what they need to do for that damage in PvE.

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > In other words... This is how you get arthritis and carpal tunner syndrome!

> > > > > Not even elementalists have such long rotations!

> > > > >

> > > > > Meanwhile in other classes land:

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...

> > > >

> > > > my favourite is reaper, 3-4 skills then hold mouse 1

> > >

> > > And i'm betting it does more damage than the entire mesmer's rotation, am i right? :smile:

> >

> > nah, its not too hot, but then again. when stars dont align reaper will have more dps due to the fact that there is nothing to kitten up and nothing that can go wrong

> > I remember doing one of the strike missions and noticed that one of the bosses had aoe that kept 1shoting phantasms... yea others dont have to deal with this kind of kitten :D

>

> Haha, try summoning clones in WvW, see what happens!

> Even phantasms can get one shotted there, let alone some big PvE boss. :tongue:

>

> But yeah, other classes don't have to do anything to be good, while mesmers have to break their fingers and still be mediocre.

> It's sad...

 

thats the bug tho, clones/phantasms take HEAVY reductions in pve damage from aoe attacks to prevent them from dying to them, but some aoe just doesnt give a fuck and 1shots them anyways. Or just aoe CC that is easy to dodge but phantasms get interrupted and just die lol

[draxynnic.3719]

I think another part of the distinction between mesmer damage in raids and mesmer damage in PvP is the assumption of boons. Mesmers in raids can assume that they have all the boons, while a mesmer on their own in a PvP scenario where they need defensive utilities usually won't have that many. It's kind of the opposite of the situation that Reaper is in, where Reapers have among the highest damage output in PvP scenarios because they self-buff so much, but because they already have the assumption of high Might, Quickness, and crit chance in their power budget, adding raid buffs doesn't help them as much.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > > > @"Jables.4659" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > > > > Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To be fair, Chrono can output a ridiculous amount of damage on a glass build and it is fairly effective if you aren't being targeted. Against bad teams or teams that don't take the Chrono seriously you can literally destroy the opposing team. The issue is that when you're up against people who know what they're doing and hard target you Chrono falls apart very quickly. It needs distortion for spvp.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let's not forget what they need to do for that damage in PvE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In other words... This is how you get arthritis and carpal tunner syndrome!

> > > > > > Not even elementalists have such long rotations!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meanwhile in other classes land:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...

> > > > >

> > > > > my favourite is reaper, 3-4 skills then hold mouse 1

> > > >

> > > > And i'm betting it does more damage than the entire mesmer's rotation, am i right? :smile:

> > >

> > > nah, its not too hot, but then again. when stars dont align reaper will have more dps due to the fact that there is nothing to kitten up and nothing that can go wrong

> > > I remember doing one of the strike missions and noticed that one of the bosses had aoe that kept 1shoting phantasms... yea others dont have to deal with this kind of kitten :D

> >

> > Haha, try summoning clones in WvW, see what happens!

> > Even phantasms can get one shotted there, let alone some big PvE boss. :tongue:

> >

> > But yeah, other classes don't have to do anything to be good, while mesmers have to break their fingers and still be mediocre.

> > It's sad...

>

> thats the bug tho, clones/phantasms take HEAVY reductions in pve damage from aoe attacks to prevent them from dying to them, but some aoe just doesnt give a kitten and 1shots them anyways. Or just aoe CC that is easy to dodge but phantasms get interrupted and just die lol

 

Yeah, makes sense they'd have dmg reduction when in AOE, too bad it doesn't work lol. Would be sometimes useful if i could summon them in big WvW fights without them dying instantly. But oh well, no clone shatters still have their uses so i'm not too bothered by that.

 

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> I think another part of the distinction between mesmer damage in raids and mesmer damage in PvP is the assumption of boons. Mesmers in raids can assume that they have all the boons, while a mesmer on their own in a PvP scenario where they need defensive utilities usually won't have that many. It's kind of the opposite of the situation that Reaper is in, where Reapers have among the highest damage output in PvP scenarios because they self-buff so much, but because they already have the assumption of high Might, Quickness, and crit chance in their power budget, adding raid buffs doesn't help them as much.

 

Not only that but you usually aren't running glass cannon berserker's gear in WvW because if you did, you'd get one shot by everything. And since you then run something like Wanderer's that only has power, precision and ferocity are lacking and you do no damage because everyone else also has tons of armor and vitality, BUT they do tons of damage as well.

 

And boonstrips and stuff in WvW is even more pronounced than in PvP since you can get boonstripped by 20 people at once as opposed to just a few like in PvP.

So yeah, in neither of those modes can you really rely on boons.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> I think another part of the distinction between mesmer damage in raids and mesmer damage in PvP is the assumption of boons. Mesmers in raids can assume that they have all the boons, while a mesmer on their own in a PvP scenario where they need defensive utilities usually won't have that many. It's kind of the opposite of the situation that Reaper is in, where Reapers have among the highest damage output in PvP scenarios because they self-buff so much, but because they already have the assumption of high Might, Quickness, and crit chance in their power budget, adding raid buffs doesn't help them as much.

 

that, and specific buffs that others get also get shafted, for example. In pve egoism is 10% dmg buff that is always up since you always have more % HP then the mob.

Meanwhile in pvp its not only on average 50% up, but also nerfed from 10% to 5%. Meanwhile necro buffs remain super easy to proc and at its 10% value

[Zoser.7245]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> Good bye GW2. I gave them over two years to fix Mesmer. Turns out it was two years too many. See you in a different game maybe.

 

It's impossible to find a mesmer build without compromises and some flaws. The traits are a mess today. They ruined many of them and now we have few that worth to choose. You also need to do too many things without a proper reward. Imagine build might with a mesmer now.... It's never there when you need it or in a ridiculous amount and that even building for try to get it, lol. Then you play something else and by choosing a single trait and using a single skill.... WoW it's there, a lot stacks available in the right moment. We also lost a lot usefull CC. For a proper cleaning condition through traits or a good synergy you also have to sacrifice vital things. That doesn't happen in other professions and specializations with a lot better synergy between traits and skills. Better utilities, etc.

 

But that is. My solution was simple. Now i play Renegade mainly and updating the builds of other professions as alternatives. Problem solved. My Mirage is now relegated to being a craftsman and the personal-living story. Imagine that, now, i also have started to do dailies with Renegade, equip the tools with it and forget that the Mirage is there. Depending on the game mode i also have other alts. But basically that is. The solution was not to play it more than for trivial content. Why play a profession that can't do things as good as others? Why complicate all that much? No thanks. No more headaches with mesmer builds. I also refused to give ideas for the next specializacion. Overall, these developers always end up nerfing and messing the mesmer profession/specializations against the whining pressure from PvP mainly, but in general too as Chronomancer changes and mess showed, it was affected by all raid/PvE whining and PvP/WvW whining. Too much damage was done to mesmers before starting to split game modes in a more serious way, even some of the lastest skills rework did more damage than help. Too late to be happy as a mesmer, that is understandable.

 

Now i'm having fun, yes... but with the Renagade, that thing works, and works well, it's effective and efficient if you know how to manage your energy, a machine. It has the sustain that mesmer lacks without sacrifice things.... the burst when needed, good CC without you be forced to center the build on it, or sacrifice something... Etc. It is a lot better designed today. I like the skills/traits it has, the synergy with core Revenant and how all seems to work together. A long time has passed since i felt something similar playing mesmer. Necromancer is also nice to play after finish its build, is a different beast. My next focus will be on holo or scrapper probably. I don't know if with the next expansion they'll do a general rebalance for all professions that could give some hope for future mesmer changes... But, for now, playing something else it is the best decision, no doubt. No more keywarrior to try to help, that age when someone was interacting with us in a constructive way to improve mesmers has gone. It's time to turn the page and look away.

 

I hope you find your own way to have fun wherever you are playing now. Stay strong and safe.

 

Regards.

[Leonidrex.5649]

when you think of gs2 you have several game modses.

solo pve, raids,fractals,pvp and wvw

mesmer is

pvp -> worst class in the game

wvw -> worst class in the game

fractals -> one of the worst if not the worst classes in the game

solo pve -> fine/bad

raids -> good/one of the best

thats it

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> when you think of gs2 you have several game modses.

> solo pve, raids,fractals,pvp and wvw

> mesmer is

> pvp -> worst class in the game

> wvw -> worst class in the game

> fractals -> one of the worst if not the worst classes in the game

> solo pve -> fine/bad

> raids -> good/one of the best

> thats it

 

Lul this list.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > when you think of gs2 you have several game modses.

> > solo pve, raids,fractals,pvp and wvw

> > mesmer is

> > pvp -> worst class in the game

> > wvw -> worst class in the game

> > fractals -> one of the worst if not the worst classes in the game

> > solo pve -> fine/bad

> > raids -> good/one of the best

> > thats it

>

> Lul this list.

 

Accurate though...

[hammu.1752]

IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still.

 

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> wvw -> worst class in the game

 

AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

[Heika.5403]

> @"hammu.1752" said:

> IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still.

>

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > wvw -> worst class in the game

>

> AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>

>

 

Nice behavior. From a single limping dodge....

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"hammu.1752" said:

> IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still.

>

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > wvw -> worst class in the game

>

> AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>

>

 

name a worse class then mesmer for wvw then?

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"hammu.1752" said:

> > IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still.

> >

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > wvw -> worst class in the game

> >

> > AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

> >

> >

>

> name a worse class then mesmer for wvw then?

 

To Metabattle!

 

*looks over which professions are represented in the WvW section*

 

Ranger, _maybe_? Both have a similar paucity of builds, with two builds apiece that are roamers and one build apiece for zergs. The mesmer zerg build, however, is considered meta, while the ranger zerg build is not.

 

Possibly warrior. They're also a bit lacking in build options, with three suitable for zergs, and one suitable for roaming (and that's only 'Good', and last time I was WvWing, I don't recall seeing many roaming warriors).

 

Those are the only possibilities I could rationally see even being in contention, though.

[hammu.1752]

> @"Heika.5403" said:

> > @"hammu.1752" said:

> > IF this means one annoying mirage less in wvw roaming scene then i wish you the best luck and good time & life who ever you are! And if not, still.

> >

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > wvw -> worst class in the game

> >

> > AAAAHHAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

> >

> >

>

> Nice behavior. From a single limping dodge. I hope you are rewarded in such a way that we do not see you for a reasonable time, and if it is never better.

 

Ok, sorry. I didn't mean to be nasty. I wished all the best for the guy who's leaving in any case and I just wanted to express my frustration to endless clones spamming mirages in wvw roaming. And I really got a nice honest laugh from the "worst class" claim.

[lare.5129]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> Good bye GW2.

great choose ! I always try other games time to time. Have a good time!

Play one game all time bad choose, you can't compare and understand current state. Bye !! :+1:

 

 

[lare.5129]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> The problem with clones in WvW large scale fights is that they have health and they just don't survive the AOE spam.

> The problem i have with how mesmers are handled is that whatever mesmers

this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing.

 

 

[Kirrund.2654]

So I played when the game came out, and I quit for 7 years, and I came back. I've been playing WvW every night with a fun guild and been having a blast. I've played PvP games and FPS games most of my life, and I've played on a competitive level in a few games (not this one). I'm older now and certainly not a master of this game or anything, and I'm learning new things each day, but analytical wise of what's good and powerful in competitive settings, I'm competent. I kept trying different Mesmer builds and wondering why every class I go up against seems to take practically no real damage despite blowing all of my CDs to burst, unless they just flat out weren't paying attention, were generally terrible, or didn't use any defenses. On my current build I'm playing pretty much Vallun's power mirage build for the additional distortions and leaps on sword 1, I use food for energy, I'm in full berserker. I don't mind being more glass canon and susceptible to dying if it means I can do more DPS.

 

I'm tellin' ya, I gotta WORK to hit people for 1.5 to 2.5k. Sometimes if I'm lucky 3k. Chunking people's HP down just doesn't happen, even on the glassiest of canon builds in WvW.

 

I've 1v1'd a few different classes like renegade and herald and after going through all of my shatters twice and utility cooldowns 2-3 times, I still didn't manage to get them past 50% HP, meanwhile it seems like they can just keep up pressure with minimal effort while I'm having to distort key attacks or risk taking half my HP in one hit, then when I'm out of defensive cooldowns I instantly die. That's in 1v1 situations. Daredevil who's competent? No contest. But that's fine, maybe that's just Daredevil/thieves' shtick, maybe they're just a hardcounter. But then I go and watch videos posted of revenants and see how casually they put out 4-8k damage hits with each, and cooldowns that are the same or shorter, and utility cooldowns that are not only functionally better, but 1/3rd the cooldown length. Like what? How is this balanced?

 

Here's the most recent one I saw that someone posted on reddit.

 

I'm not going to talk about his skill or anything, he's obviously competent, maybe he's amazing, I don't know, but that doesn't matter here because no amount of being skilled can change those damage numbers or how short those cooldowns are. Just look at the damage that he does, look at how much shorter the cooldowns are! Look at how many extra evades he seems to have. A lot of his damage avoidance comes from being slippery with so many targetted (and untargetted?) mobility options, that also hit really hard and seem to have pretty low cooldowns. You can't do that on Mesmer. Look at how tanky he is, his hp total, and he's still managing to do that many non targetted cone and ground AOEs that are hitting people for 2k easily, and then using some abilities that hit for 8k+. He permanently floats between 15-24 stacks of Might. Everything this class does hits way harder than anything Mesmer does, without even a fourth of the resource investment. How does this make any sense? Please, someone explain it to me. I'll admit, I haven't made this class yet, but I'm staring at his button presses, and I was already going to make one of these soon after watching some other videos. It just seems absurd to me that I'm playing in this Mesmer world and wondering what I'm doing wrong, when it seems like the reality is that Mesmer just does no real damage pressure in any remotely sustainable way compared to where the game is now in WvW. What is this class balanced around? Intangible strength items things like portal? If portal is holding it back from having any real other strength...I don't know, I don't think its worth it.

 

This cannot be even remotely approached on the current iteration of Mesmer.

 

P.S. It also showcases another problem with Mesmer, where you can see towards the back half of the video while he's 1v4ing, the Chrono shatters and he just kites the clones with two mobility skills and they never do anything. I'm sure other classes would complain if they built up resources above their bar only to have those randomly empty out and do nothing.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

 

> Accurate though...

 

Mesmer is still very very strong in PvE.

Especially content which can be comped for like Fractals and Raids.

Anyone is good in Openworld, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Only the competitive split Mesmer is horrible.

And by horrible, I actually mean horrible against the meta builds.

 

They can function decently well against the myriad of non-meta builds out there, but when they face down a meta build with a decent player behind it, they lose almost everytime.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > The problem with clones in WvW large scale fights is that they have health and they just don't survive the AOE spam.

> > The problem i have with how mesmers are handled is that whatever mesmers

> this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing.

>

>

 

I'm sorry but as much as i read this sentance, i can't figure out what you wanted to say. Can you rephrase it? Or explain more? I don't know what you mean just from that or what you're referring to.

 

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

>

> > Accurate though...

>

> Mesmer is still very very strong in PvE.

> Especially content which can be comped for like Fractals and Raids.

> Anyone is good in Openworld, so it doesn't really matter.

>

> Only the competitive split Mesmer is horrible.

> And by horrible, I actually mean horrible against the meta builds.

>

> They can function decently well against the myriad of non-meta builds out there, but when they face down a meta build with a decent player behind it, they lose almost everytime.

 

The problem, that i think, is not that mesmers are not good in some instances (and they're only top DPS in raids when buffed to oblivion and i screenshotted the rotation necessary to pull that DPS off). It's that other classes are way better at what mesmers do with not even half the effort while not having to sacrifice anything such as DPS. If mesmers build for one thing, they do that one thing and one thing only, and then another class that's DPS specced does that thing again better.

 

It's not that Mesmers can't be played or are literally unplayable, that's not true, i play one in WvW and i'm having fun. But it bothers me that it feels like i'm being punished for playing a mesmer especially since - when i tried other classes, there's no comparison and no doubt - mesmers compared to ohter classes are the worst in every category.

 

Mirage before the dodge nerf was almost on par with some other classes. Not quite, and you still had to break your keyboard with combinations of buttons to actually do something other classes can do in 2 button presses, but it was doable. And that - because of whiny people like some above poster said (annoying mirages), got nerfed in the most unfair way.

 

That's the problem. Every other class has higher burst, higher evasion, higher stealth, higher boonshare, higher everything than a mesmer available at 2 buttons while also having tons of other stuff they didn't have to sacrifice to get that.

 

I still play and will play a Mesmer, but honestly, it feels like i'm being punished for it because when i play any of my alts, they do everything a mesmer does with no effort at all.

[lare.5129]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing.

> I'm sorry but as much as i read this sentance, i can't figure out what you wanted to say. Can you rephrase it? Or explain more? I don't know what you mean just from that or what you're referring to.

you say that this is problem. The water is water is wet problem too? no, this is from start and as should.

One more example: now start play wiht warrior, per 10 fights how much mesmers I kill ? Answer: 0 And on 1: 1 Wiht in total sumary have have win rate 50% aprox

It is absoliutly anticlass for my biuld. Should I make new discussion on forum and cry about that ? NO. I proud our pvp system.

 

[Kondor.2904]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing.

> > I'm sorry but as much as i read this sentance, i can't figure out what you wanted to say. Can you rephrase it? Or explain more? I don't know what you mean just from that or what you're referring to.

> you say that this is problem. The water is water is wet problem too? no, this is from start and as should.

> One more example: now start play wiht warrior, per 10 fights how much mesmers I kill ? Answer: 0 And on 1: 1 Wiht in total sumary have have win rate 50% aprox

> It is absoliutly anticlass for my biuld. Should I make new discussion on forum and cry about that ? NO. I proud our pvp system.

>

 

The key word is your "build". There can never be a condi class that is a hard counter or is considered an anticlass to something in a game mode where cleansing sigils and antitoxin rune exist. If you build yourself to be competent vs 9/10 power classes and be weak vs 1 condi class (generally speaking), when you can legit be immune to condi, you can't complain. And while your problem can be completely negated by simply switching couple gear elements, mesmer's problems are more sophisticated than that and are mostly due to certain core mechanics and class design decisions.

[Azazel.7536]

Assuming that the OP is outraged about "mesmer not being fixed" obviously expresses his anger toward it being screwed, because I could not imagine anyone complaining about mesmer being too strong in its current state after all the impactful nerfs :D I will agree with anyone who claims that mesmer is being tortured massively so other professions are happy - I play a "hybrid" chrono which focuses mainly on Power DPS and equal distribution of Quickness and alacrity. I have got ascended gear and trinkets, providing me with nearly 80% precision (20% is from Dueling trait) and nearly 200% crit damage. If I trained long enough, I could possibly manage to pull off a really long periods with having quickness and alacrity uptimes, but (as I already mentioned) I am DPS specc. GS / s+s, wearing Knight's armour, which is an incredible compromise where you get more precision in exchange for vitality, but still have that toughness for survivability too.... HOWEVER, despite all these beautiful things which I am thrilled about, the excitement ends as soon as any other profession joins the battle and wipes the floor with their 3-4 skills rotations twice/thrice as fast as I do. You can take basically any profession, whether ranger or warrior (I am not even discussing Berserker who spins everything to death in a fraction of seconds) and guys, this is JUST PVE aspect. Mesmer IS slower that everyone else in any game mode and the effort it takes to make significant difference is huuuge. From long cooldowns to poor damage, only because "we have clones"....jeesus, a set of completely useless mirrors who die quicker than they are summoned with nearly zero damage, while, for instance, ranger has an animal spawn which lasts until its death and can put out more damage than my phantasm. AND the profession itself kills things quicker, so there is like 3:0 in favour of ranger in comparison. And that is just one class. The most ridiculous thing I have experienced was Power Druid in exotics who exterminated waves of mobs quicker than me :D that really did hurt my feelings...

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > this is not problem, this is works not how you predict. This is 2 different thing.

> > I'm sorry but as much as i read this sentance, i can't figure out what you wanted to say. Can you rephrase it? Or explain more? I don't know what you mean just from that or what you're referring to.

> you say that this is problem. The water is water is wet problem too? no, this is from start and as should.

> One more example: now start play wiht warrior, per 10 fights how much mesmers I kill ? Answer: 0 And on 1: 1 Wiht in total sumary have have win rate 50% aprox

> It is absoliutly anticlass for my biuld. Should I make new discussion on forum and cry about that ? NO. I proud our pvp system.

>

 

Ok i think i understood now. But i don't agree. Mesmer's problems are not just "i can't kill one class". Maybe mesmer is the anticlass for your build, and maybe if you tweak your buld, you can beat a mesmer. But mesmers themselves have much bigger problems in that no matter what you build for - someone else will do it better or more efficient. And because of the people that do exactly what you described - cry on forums - mesmers get nerfed. Not because they were too OP, but because people and from what we can tell - developers as well - don't know what to do with them.

 

> @"Azazel.7536" said:

> Assuming that the OP is outraged about "mesmer not being fixed" obviously expresses his anger toward it being screwed, because I could not imagine anyone complaining about mesmer being too strong in its current state after all the impactful nerfs :D I will agree with anyone who claims that mesmer is being tortured massively so other professions are happy - I play a "hybrid" chrono which focuses mainly on Power DPS and equal distribution of Quickness and alacrity. I have got ascended gear and trinkets, providing me with nearly 80% precision (20% is from Dueling trait) and nearly 200% crit damage. If I trained long enough, I could possibly manage to pull off a really long periods with having quickness and alacrity uptimes, but (as I already mentioned) I am DPS specc. GS / s+s, wearing Knight's armour, which is an incredible compromise where you get more precision in exchange for vitality, but still have that toughness for survivability too.... HOWEVER, despite all these beautiful things which I am thrilled about, the excitement ends as soon as any other profession joins the battle and wipes the floor with their 3-4 skills rotations twice/thrice as fast as I do. You can take basically any profession, whether ranger or warrior (I am not even discussing Berserker who spins everything to death in a fraction of seconds) and guys, this is JUST PVE aspect. Mesmer IS slower that everyone else in any game mode and the effort it takes to make significant difference is huuuge. From long cooldowns to poor damage, only because "we have clones"....jeesus, a set of completely useless mirrors who die quicker than they are summoned with nearly zero damage, while, for instance, ranger has an animal spawn which lasts until its death and can put out more damage than my phantasm. AND the profession itself kills things quicker, so there is like 3:0 in favour of ranger in comparison. And that is just one class. The most ridiculous thing I have experienced was Power Druid in exotics who exterminated waves of mobs quicker than me :D that really did hurt my feelings...

 

Yesterday, a group of about 10 of us were killing one ranger. He got away. He was THAT tanky and elusive and he just permahealed. And i'm not talking about a noob group, those were some WvW veterans, and the team composition was kinda half half support/dps. 10 of us couldn't get one ranger. How is that Ok? He wasn't even "good" or something, he just shrugged off damage like it was nothing, and no matter how "good" you are, when 10 people focus you - you die.

 

After that, sometime later, there was this daredevil. No one could touch him. Just permaevade, shadowstep, portal, evade, evade, shadowstep, evade, evade, evade... In this case, i admit the player was good, but the point is - Mirage lost a dodge because it "evaded too much" or whatever. Then what's this crap with daredevls then? Not only that but, he did good damage. If a mesmer want's to do something so well, you can forget about other aspects. Classes like this can have it all and sacrifice nothing.

 

But hey, at least we're kinda ok at boonstrips and we still have a pull...

 

Torture is the right word, i fully agree.

[Nicolo.2418]

> @"Kirrund.2654" said:

> So I played when the game came out, and I quit for 7 years, and I came back. I've been playing WvW every night with a fun guild and been having a blast. I've played PvP games and FPS games most of my life, and I've played on a competitive level in a few games (not this one). I'm older now and certainly not a master of this game or anything, and I'm learning new things each day, but analytical wise of what's good and powerful in competitive settings, I'm competent. I kept trying different Mesmer builds and wondering why every class I go up against seems to take practically no real damage despite blowing all of my CDs to burst, unless they just flat out weren't paying attention, were generally terrible, or didn't use any defenses. On my current build I'm playing pretty much Vallun's power mirage build for the additional distortions and leaps on sword 1, I use food for energy, I'm in full berserker. I don't mind being more glass canon and susceptible to dying if it means I can do more DPS.

>

> I'm tellin' ya, I gotta WORK to hit people for 1.5 to 2.5k. Sometimes if I'm lucky 3k. Chunking people's HP down just doesn't happen, even on the glassiest of canon builds in WvW.

>

> I've 1v1'd a few different classes like renegade and herald and after going through all of my shatters twice and utility cooldowns 2-3 times, I still didn't manage to get them past 50% HP, meanwhile it seems like they can just keep up pressure with minimal effort while I'm having to distort key attacks or risk taking half my HP in one hit, then when I'm out of defensive cooldowns I instantly die. That's in 1v1 situations. Daredevil who's competent? No contest. But that's fine, maybe that's just Daredevil/thieves' shtick, maybe they're just a hardcounter. But then I go and watch videos posted of revenants and see how casually they put out 4-8k damage hits with each, and cooldowns that are the same or shorter, and utility cooldowns that are not only functionally better, but 1/3rd the cooldown length. Like what? How is this balanced?

>

> Here's the most recent one I saw that someone posted on reddit.

>

>

> I'm not going to talk about his skill or anything, he's obviously competent, maybe he's amazing, I don't know, but that doesn't matter here because no amount of being skilled can change those damage numbers or how short those cooldowns are. Just look at the damage that he does, look at how much shorter the cooldowns are! Look at how many extra evades he seems to have. A lot of his damage avoidance comes from being slippery with so many targetted (and untargetted?) mobility options, that also hit really hard and seem to have pretty low cooldowns. You can't do that on Mesmer. Look at how tanky he is, his hp total, and he's still managing to do that many non targetted cone and ground AOEs that are hitting people for 2k easily, and then using some abilities that hit for 8k+. He permanently floats between 15-24 stacks of Might. Everything this class does hits way harder than anything Mesmer does, without even a fourth of the resource investment. How does this make any sense? Please, someone explain it to me. I'll admit, I haven't made this class yet, but I'm staring at his button presses, and I was already going to make one of these soon after watching some other videos. It just seems absurd to me that I'm playing in this Mesmer world and wondering what I'm doing wrong, when it seems like the reality is that Mesmer just does no real damage pressure in any remotely sustainable way compared to where the game is now in WvW. What is this class balanced around? Intangible strength items things like portal? If portal is holding it back from having any real other strength...I don't know, I don't think its worth it.

>

> This cannot be even remotely approached on the current iteration of Mesmer.

>

> P.S. It also showcases another problem with Mesmer, where you can see towards the back half of the video while he's 1v4ing, the Chrono shatters and he just kites the clones with two mobility skills and they never do anything. I'm sure other classes would complain if they built up resources above their bar only to have those randomly empty out and do nothing.

 

 

i have to admit - you are absolutly right while you talk about (power mesmer) As revenant you have not only a lot of dodge ..the all in all sustain is pretty high compare to mesmer for example. Sword 4 and 5 are borken... hitting ppl with 9k+ deathstrike is obviously stupid. But every class except power mesmer can play like that... longbow ranger / soulbeast can oneshot you and has a lot of sustain - burn guard , dh , reaper , etc... 50% what you see in this video is movement and outplaying the enemy.. with which class you are doing that is not rly important as long as it has enough dmg and all in all sustain (invul / dodge / cc/ movement skills) i mean balance discussions are quite difficult but i hope they will fix it in an bigger balance next months since mesmer is a cool class and it would be nice if its not reduced to stealth-oneshot or condi bunker. JazzXman plays a good pmesmer which isnt oneshot / conditank so if you dont know the yT channel already check it out =)