waht we wait for best changes to mesmer at 2020.12.14 (summary what we wait ater 2020)

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Tot agree! So tired of **other** players who totally destroyed this unique class because they are to lazy to actually learn their class and this game!

>While other players playing ...

first way to be elitare and uniq - don't look to they and others, and start look inside. It that line mesmer changes a good good way make that class uniq.

 

> Right now it feels like we mesmers are the only ones who really needs to learn this game and our class and get very creative in order to somehow be good at this game.

You prove my words and just now accept whta I say and my suggestions I see,

 

> Its really unfair as it already is, and more nerf posts like this are so tiresome. Just stop destroying the game for us.

This is not nerf. This is optimal suggested balance changes to make more for Mesmer, make class more elitare and specific, brign to only some non standart animation, but breath of freedom and sockety respect.

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Tot agree! So tired of **other** players who totally destroyed this unique class because they are to lazy to actually learn their class and this game!

> >While other players playing ...

> first way to be elitare and uniq - don't look to they and others, and start look inside. It that line mesmer changes a good good way make that class uniq.

>

> > Right now it feels like we mesmers are the only ones who really needs to learn this game and our class and get very creative in order to somehow be good at this game.

> You prove my words and just now accept whta I say and my suggestions I see,

>

> > Its really unfair as it already is, and more nerf posts like this are so tiresome. Just stop destroying the game for us.

> This is not nerf. This is optimal suggested balance changes to make more for Mesmer, make class more elitare and specific, brign to only some non standart animation, but breath of freedom and sockety respect.

>

 

So if I understand you right, you want them to change mesmers so it even gets more obvious who the player mesmer is when he/she has a bunch of clones active (referring to your suggestions in your original post), and also make clones weaker in terms of HP (as we arent already struggling with keeping them alive)? That way we mesmer players need to get even more creative to even stay alive in this game? That somehow makes the class more unique to you?

 

if thats the case... Nope... Never! Its already so hard staying alive as a Mirage as it is. Its not fun to PvP or WvW anymore, and I used to WvW alot before. Those modes are kind of dead to me since they nerfed mirage so bad last time!

 

Do you play mesmer yourself? Really curious...

 

 

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> you want them to change mesmers so it even gets more obvious who the player mesmer is when he/she has a bunch of clones active (referring to your suggestions in your original post), and also make clones weaker in terms of HP (as we arent already struggling to keep them alive)?

yes, I need clone, but one mulitbot account mode.

 

>That way we mesmer players need to get even more creative to even stay alive in this game?

Ofc. mesmer is one of finest and uniq class. And make this class elitare is a good way.

We need give skilled players good class to play and mesmer a good choose after few changes.

 

> if thats the case... Nope... Never! Its already so hard staying alive as a Mirage as it is.

yes, and should be more hard. We need attract skilled players to that class. True skilled players. And one of best way to attract - nerf or change class and make unplay for low level skilled players.

 

> Its not fun to PvP or WvW anymore, and I used to WvW alot before.

it not depend from build it depend only from vision.

 

> Do you play mesmer yourself? Really curious...

ofc yes.

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > you want them to change mesmers so it even gets more obvious who the player mesmer is when he/she has a bunch of clones active (referring to your suggestions in your original post), and also make clones weaker in terms of HP (as we arent already struggling to keep them alive)?

> yes, I need clone, but one mulitbot account mode.

>

> >That way we mesmer players need to get even more creative to even stay alive in this game?

> Ofc. mesmer is one of finest and uniq class. And make this class elitare is a good way.

> We need give skilled players good class to play and mesmer a good choose after few changes.

>

> > if thats the case... Nope... Never! Its already so hard staying alive as a Mirage as it is.

> yes, and should be more hard. We need attract skilled players to that class. True skilled players. And one of best way to attract - nerf or change class and make unplay for low level skilled players.

>

> > Its not fun to PvP or WvW anymore, and I used to WvW alot before.

> it not depend from build it depend only from vision.

>

> > Do you play mesmer yourself? Really curious...

> ofc yes.

>

 

The problem is that its not even close to being fair to begin with when you compare mesmers to other classes. So making it even harder for mesmer players, just makes the class more tedious to play, specially when other classes has alot easier.

 

The only fair thing is to nerf the other classes, so they need to get as skilled as we are today. Nerf their mechanics to complete destruction, destroy their traits and skills. Only then we'll be on the same level.

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> The problem is that its not even close to being fair to begin with when you compare mesmers to other classes.

this is mmo game. So try find any fair is wrong first step. People don't like fair, and this is one of reason why some people play mmo game. So yours argument is opposite yourself.

 

> So making it even harder for mesmer players, just makes the class more tedious to play, specially when other classes has alot easier.

And this is target. How you agreee that the not should have same numbers of eash class in game?

 

> The only fair thing is to nerf the other classes, so they need to get as skilled as we are today.

Again, fair is no argument for mmo games. What fair game ? - play chess.

And about other classes I prefer discus in there class thread line.

 

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > The problem is that its not even close to being fair to begin with when you compare mesmers to other classes.

> this is mmo game. So try find any fair is wrong first step. People don't like fair, and this is one of reason why some people play mmo game. So yours argument is opposite yourself.

>

> > So making it even harder for mesmer players, just makes the class more tedious to play, specially when other classes has alot easier.

> And this is target. How you agreee that the not should have same numbers of eash class in game?

>

> > The only fair thing is to nerf the other classes, so they need to get as skilled as we are today.

> Again, fair is no argument for mmo games. What fair game ? - play chess.

> And about other classes I prefer discus in there class thread line.

>

>

 

Im gonna stop here. We dont agree on this so no point in discussing this any further.

[Curunen.8729]

I've played on a 15" screen the last few years and have no issue with clone number, health, model size etc for opponent mesmers. In wvw without standard character models.

 

In terms of regularity of spawning clones - it's precisely because they're so fragile that things like DE are so pivotal in certain builds. One takes a whole lot of pointless filler traits just to get that single trait that enables the build to function in any decent capacity.

 

I don't get how nerfing axe further would push any kind of "master of illusions" theme.

 

I get that you (the OP) don't want the class to be "too strong" so to be even more niche that even fewer people play it (personally I'm sure most players of a class don't want it to be flavour of the month, but this comes across as excessive bordering on elitist) - but it's not as simple as "this too strong/that too strong" - continuous nerfs have thinned options to necessitating a very limited but vital number of dependencies - and yes this doesn't mean certain dependencies aren't still a problem when looked at in isolation. But rather than taking the nerf hammer to these things further, one should look at how to scaffold the fairly large number of weak/almost pointless filler options (traits, skills etc) to support wider build variety.

 

Hopefully when EoD drops, there will be a deeper and more comprehensive review of all specs in each profession.

[lare.5129]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> I've played on a 15" screen the last few years and have no issue with clone number, health, model size etc for opponent mesmers. In wvw without standard character models.

I am also use notebook screen, and I see that it can be improved.

 

> In terms of regularity of spawning clones - it's precisely because they're so fragile that things like DE are so pivotal in certain builds. One takes a whole lot of pointless filler traits just to get that single trait that enables the build to function in any decent capacity.

Why is should have "decent capacity"?

 

> continuous nerfs have thinned options to necessitating a very limited but vital number of dependencies - and yes this doesn't mean certain dependencies aren't still a problem when looked at in isolation.

this is gw2. There is no any "limited but vital number of dependencies"

 

> Hopefully when EoD drops, there will be a deeper and more comprehensive review of all specs in each profession.

don't why you hope. You will not get after hot, dont get is after pof, why eod should change it ?? I think best way - don't do any global spec review.

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > I've played on a 15" screen the last few years and have no issue with clone number, health, model size etc for opponent mesmers. In wvw without standard character models.

> I am also use notebook screen, and I see that it can be improved.

Well I think it is fine. Maybe you could have improvements to the standard character model option instead of the regular view, which should remain full size, same appearance as player and no less health.

> > In terms of regularity of spawning clones - it's precisely because they're so fragile that things like DE are so pivotal in certain builds. One takes a whole lot of pointless filler traits just to get that single trait that enables the build to function in any decent capacity.

> Why is should have "decent capacity"?

I don't understand - decent capacity means "ok".

> > continuous nerfs have thinned options to necessitating a very limited but vital number of dependencies - and yes this doesn't mean certain dependencies aren't still a problem when looked at in isolation.

> this is gw2. There is no any "limited but vital number of dependencies"

Disagree with this - how many trait/skill/weapon combinations there are, but how many are actually on par with each other when eg considering a mirror match. Too much filler, not enough equal variety.

> > Hopefully when EoD drops, there will be a deeper and more comprehensive review of all specs in each profession.

> don't why you hope. You will not get after hot, dont get is after pof, why eod should change it ?? I think best way - don't do any global spec review.

In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

One of the only unique things mesmer-wise is how uniquely garbage they are.

Whats the point of nerfing clones they have 2400 HP on light target, most DPS builds can kill them with 1 basic attacks, and they die to most aoe, fuck even phantasms with their "whooping" 3400 HP die to most aoe from 1 hit ( dont you just love it when corona burst 1shots all your clones/phantasms? )

I really dont get the reasoning? yo want good players to play mesmer? guess what, they wont. Class is shit and they will move to play the good classes like rev, and it punishes dedicated mesmer players that still stick with this heap pile of garbage called mesmer. I was dueling mesmer vs mesmer, after switching to holo ( I have never played engi before and didnt even know what half the skills did, to top it off I was forgetting that I had elite and F skills and just spamming dodge -> attack ) and I got better results, know why ? cuz holo used to do triple the mesmers damage so I could afford to miss almost everything, not use half the skills and win anyways cuz random 1 hit that I land on accident took 1/2 hp from oponent, And guess what, he is mesmer so he cant heal PepeLaugh.

This is the reality of the situation

[AshkyLicious.4729]

I seriously think OP hasnt any clue of what mesmer is and dont know what challenges players faces with the class since the nerfs... He/she has just faced them in PvP or WvW, probably gets killed by them and thinks they are waaay too owerpowered and wants that changed...

 

You (OP) talk about mmos arent ment to be fair and because of this mesmers should get even more nerfed?

Why dont we nerf all other classes instead to total garbage and restore mesmer back to when it was really good with crono and mirage aswell?

 

You should be totally ok with this since mmos arent about being fair in your oppinion, if you look for fairness you can go play chess instead as you said yourself?

 

Stop this nonsense already...

[Veprovina.4876]

This thread is pointless and has been for a while.

OP either doesn't play mesmers or whatever, but if OP is serious, then the suggestions to "make the class more skilled to play" request is ridiculous, and further nerfing the class so that "it takes skill" will not have the result you think it will. It will just kill the class.

Us mesmers already need to be way more skilled at playing than any other class to achieve mediocre results, while other classes need to just spam auto attack basically and a few skills to achieve the same. That's not balanced. That's not fun, and that's not what MMO's should strive for. Life is not fair. MMO's should be because they're just games. If OP wants obstacles, find those in real life and leave entertainment alone.

[Yasai.3549]

I rather clones have no health but cannot be targeted and is invulnerable.

As it always should have been.

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I rather clones have no health but cannot be targeted and is invulnerable.

> As it always should have been.

 

Agree 100%! Specially phantasms, since they are the main source of damage.

[lare.5129]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> I don't understand - decent capacity means "ok".

why is shoudl be "ok" ?? no. This is not properly way.

 

> Disagree with this - how many trait/skill/weapon combinations there are, but how many are actually on par with each other when eg considering a mirror match. Too much filler, not enough equal variety.

we talk about pvp ? we have mmr system. So be sure that it have good balance. On wvw size matter, this is great. So mesmer can any traits and be happy, or unhappy,. but it depend from person, but not from class.

 

> In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is.

people need some changes, no matter, good or bad.

 

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

 

> > In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is.

> people need some changes, no matter, good or bad.

>

>

 

Are you for real? Then I vote for really good changes for mesmer that doesnt change them for the worse as you are suggesting. Instead restore them back to when mesmer, chrono and mirage were really good. That should make you happy aswell since you only want a change, doenst matter if its good or bad. Maybe we can change other classes in a bad way for a change instead!

[Lucio.4190]

So... "I will beat the crap out of you every day, just beause I love you and to make you stronger..."

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > I don't understand - decent capacity means "ok".

> why is shoudl be "ok" ?? no. This is not properly way.

I'm failing to understand what you're trying to say.

> > Disagree with this - how many trait/skill/weapon combinations there are, but how many are actually on par with each other when eg considering a mirror match. Too much filler, not enough equal variety.

> we talk about pvp ? we have mmr system. So be sure that it have good balance. On wvw size matter, this is great. So mesmer can any traits and be happy, or unhappy,. but it depend from person, but not from class.

It's a broad spectrum, but even within the range of player abilities, there are far too many build combinations that fall way below the few actually solid options. This doesn't mean there shouldn't be bad build combinations - ie sure if someone wants to play GS and does something stupid like take full trailblazer without Domination then of course it is a bad build. Sure, sufficiently good players with a worse build should be able to beat sufficiently weak players with good build - on a continuous scale depending on both variables - however I'm arguing that the number of insufficient/sub par build permutations is significant compared with the player ability gap/range that should otherwise be able to make up for it.

> > In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is.

> people need some changes, no matter, good or bad.

Ok, so I suppose they should just remove IP (self-shatter) from Chrono again, for the sake of making a change?

[lare.5129]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> and does something stupid like take full trailblazer without Domination then of course it is a bad build. Sure, sufficiently good players with a worse build should be able to beat sufficiently weak players with good build - on a continuous scale depending on both variables

so you accept my suggestion, but understand yet that you accept it

 

> Ok, so I suppose they should just remove IP (self-shatter) from Chrono again, for the sake of making a change?

if roll back same thing from 0 to 1 I don't see fesh wave in it. So remove F12345 keys at all more beeter. I don't say that this is good, I say it better that remove self-shatter and back again, and remove again

 

[Veprovina.4876]

This is a troll thread, it's obvious now... :tired_face:

"Any change is good, even the bad ones..."

Like, come on...

[AshkyLicious.4729]

Cant the moderators just delete posts like these...? mind numbing...

[lare.5129]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> This is a troll thread, it's obvious now... :tired_face:

> "Any change is good, even the bad ones..."

> Like, come on...

yes, I am sure any patch should have some troll and sarcastic components. Why ? it produce some reaction and feeling "oh, we have changes!?"

- short bow 5 inciate increase in spvp for theif is good example for mesmers. Do I like that change? No, it kill some understandign of rolen in spvp, ,but on other it give some fun and produce queston "ok .. now what? how?"

So same changes now ideal for mesmer. I summarize many post and have describe it on first post.

 

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Cant the moderators just delete posts like these...? mind numbing...

let him/her also have opinion. Don't produce democratic one opinion pattern to our friendly community. Ok, some person not agree. And say "obvious now." is easy. You should try it too sometimes, to put off stress after office work. Opposite - press Like, and feel what you know properly way.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > This is a troll thread, it's obvious now... :tired_face:

> > "Any change is good, even the bad ones..."

> > Like, come on...

> yes, I am sure any patch should have some troll and sarcastic components. Why ? it produce some reaction and feeling "oh, we have changes!?"

> - short bow 5 inciate increase in spvp for theif is good example for mesmers. Do I like that change? No, it kill some understandign of rolen in spvp, ,but on other it give some fun and produce queston "ok .. now what? how?"

> So same changes now ideal for mesmer. I summarize many post and have describe it on first post.

>

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Cant the moderators just delete posts like these...? mind numbing...

> let him/her also have opinion. Don't produce democratic one opinion pattern to our friendly community. Ok, some person not agree. And say "obvious now." is easy. You should try it too sometimes, to put off stress after office work. Opposite - press Like, and feel what you know properly way.

>

 

So bad changes that cripple the class are "good" because then you can post sarcastic comments on how bad they are and produce a reaction?

 

How about instead, they don't make bad changes anymore, and no one ever needs to react to anything and just be happy playing the game?

 

I'm sorry i'm going to stop responding to you because i can't even understand half the stuff you're saying, and what little i understand (or think i do), is horrible so i'm out.

Stop demanding nerfs for mesmers because "reasons". It's enough.

[lare.5129]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> So bad changes that cripple the class are "good" because then you can post sarcastic comments on how bad they are and produce a reaction?

1)In prev answer I mean other.

2) not sarcastic comments. I mean already applied changes should have sarcastic effect.

3) no changes is bad way. Better have bad changes. Also, my described changes don't look bad for me. And keep mind that I don't say that bad changes is ok. It is fine and very good, only if we compare it whit no changes.

 

> How about instead, they don't make bad changes anymore

not possible not do bad changes. This is sound like ""stop all wars, keep peace, don't kill, and no one ill.

 

>and no one ever needs to react to anything and just be happy playing the game?

second part textsound good to, and reread test start from "not possible not do bad"

 

> I'm sorry i'm going to stop responding to you because i can't even understand half the stuff you're saying, and what little i understand (or think i do), is horrible so i'm out.

good choose. I understand I have non standart mind, and keep it as all object at land can not everyone from one step.. Person should have 20+ year experience of mmo game and passionate vision to take it more easy.

 

> Stop demanding nerfs for mesmers because "reasons". It's enough.

not nerf. we cant be so small. It is not have butterfly colors .. We need demand kill and reborn that. Not possible reborn but still be alive.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

[Lucio.4190]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > This is a troll thread, it's obvious now... :tired_face:

> > "Any change is good, even the bad ones..."

> > Like, come on...

> yes, I am sure any patch should have some troll and sarcastic components. Why ? it produce some reaction and feeling "oh, we have changes!?"

> - short bow 5 inciate increase in spvp for theif is good example for mesmers. Do I like that change? No, it kill some understandign of rolen in spvp, ,but on other it give some fun and produce queston "ok .. now what? how?"

> So same changes now ideal for mesmer. I summarize many post and have describe it on first post.

>

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Cant the moderators just delete posts like these...? mind numbing...

> let him/her also have opinion. Don't produce democratic one opinion pattern to our friendly community. Ok, some person not agree. And say "obvious now." is easy. You should try it too sometimes, to put off stress after office work. Opposite - press Like, and feel what you know properly way.

>

 

Oh. So, you WERE being serious? In that case, I apologize. I'm really sorry for accusing you for being a troll.

You say change is good and I agree. I've had some thoughts about some changes for the Mesmer, I hope you like them.

 

I'm thinking of the Chronos as the time/space manipulation wizard, someone that sees into the future and manipulates time and space. I can't see other professions, except the necro, having a portal. I can accept the argument that the necro uses the underworld as a tunnel, similar to a wormhole.

I believe the Chronos shouldn't have a lot of Vitality or be tanky, but should be very fast and mobile.

I believe the Chronos should be the perfect companion for support and healing, making the team a lot better and giving lots of boons.

I also believe that more Mesmers in the team, up to a certain limit, would add to the boons.

 

With that in mind, I think the Chronos should be able to:

- Use a Signet that prolongs the activation time of all skills with Expertise x 0.03, allies within the vicinity should get their activation time x1.6 instead.

- Alacrity should be doubled and possible to share with allies, they get 65% of the Chronos current Alacrity.

- The Continuum Split should also make the Chronos very hard to hit, giving x3 chance to evade all attacks.

- Tides of Time should randomly steal 1-2 boons from each enemy, then share them randomly to the Chronos and allies.

- Well of Eternity should be restoring all Health to the Chronos and their allies. If the team has three Chronos that throws Well of Eternity together it will make everyone in the team Invulnerable for 10 seconds.

- Well of Precognition should do as the name suggests. All enemies within a certain radius should be Paralyzed for Expertise/300 seconds.

- Gravity Well should also slow down the enemies. The closer they get to the Chronos, the harder it should be to move. It should last for Expertise/200 seconds and the enemies should feel like they're walking through maple syrup.

- Bonus from Time Marches On should be 60%.

 

The Mirage should more of a master illusionist. I can imagine that a couple of traits and skills here could have something similar for the thief and hunter, such as stealth and blink. Other than that, similar skills on other professions than the Mirage should be removed from the game.

With that in mind, I think the Mirage should be able to:

- Have up to 5 clones, instead of being limited to 3.

- The Phantasmal Defender should have 80% HP of Mesmer's original.

- the Mirage should be able to conjure 3 Phantasmal Defenders.

- Resurrect by a Mirage should be instant, but that's an illusion. If the resurrected ally succeeds in healing or surviving 5 seconds without being hit, the illusion will turn real and Health will become 80% of its current value.

- Mirage should be able to dodge 3 times before the cool down starts counting.

- Mirage should have a skill that doubles Vitality and Toughness for 5 seconds. Hard as Stone.

- Stealth should be active for Expertise x 0.03 seconds.

- Mirage should be able to jump/teleport between all clones/illusions/phantasms and switch places with them.

- Skills like Wave of Panic and Chaos Vortex should shock the target and make it flee from the battle in fear, unable to defend itself from additional attacks.

- Clones should have 60% of the caster's Health, but be able to do full damage. Otherwise it's not a clone?

 

Well... (pun, not intended) that's what I've been thinking of as an improvement of the game, which will give another dimension to the fights and make the Mesmer fun to play with, other than pretty accessory that some Warriors may bring to a fight as a trophy.

Any comments on those suggestions? Maybe I forgot some change that might be good for the game?