AshkyLicious.4729 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"Lucio.4190" said: > All games have the same problem. There is a small group that hate losing, starting to whine at forums and being loud in general. Shouting for nerf. > The problem with nerfing is that it starts a neverending loop behaviour, because that's when the game is really becoming unbalanced. Other races or classes needs to be nerfed too. > The Mesmer has been very versatile through the years and when one build was nerfed, another popped up. Until the Mesmer wasn't that much versatile anymore, like out of options. Cut of the fingers one by one and the artist will no longer be able to paint. Still, no build was really op but all builds had a high level and could compete with other classes. > > There is another thread here, asking for a role defining of the different classes. I think that would be a great idea before starting to work on a balance. > Should the different classes have different modifiers depending on race? Or will they all be open for everyone to select, without any race bonus/penalties? > Should there be a total balance between the builds? Or is it okay if some are slightly better than others or may require some extra skill to maneuver through the battlefield? > > I know some game developers that say "A game for everyone is a game for no one" and there is some truth in that. If we had total balance and all builds were equally good at everything, it wouldn't matter what you choose or how you play. > There's a lot to think about before balancing all the builds, I don't envy ANet. But when keep punishing a certain class like they've done here, that's not fair at all. > I've loved the Mesmer since Guild Wars, always played it. It's really sad to see what have been done these past years. But I still have hope and we will survive these dark ages. > After the rain, there's always sun. And then we nerf the Ranger! > (sorry, couldn't help my self. Really, I actually have nothing against the Ranger and don't think it should be nerfed.) Missed your post! But have to say thank you for the explanation and the point of view you provided in the post! I agree with everything you say! I still want to believe in that we as mesmer community can try to do more to change this somehow (I hope atleast). And start to look at the things you mention in your post is a good way to start doing that! Hahahahahahahaha rangers should def get the nerf indeed xD just for fun atleast! Btw thank you for all the fun posts you made, gave me a good laugh :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio.4190 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > @"Lucio.4190" said: > > All games have the same problem. There is a small group that hate losing, starting to whine at forums and being loud in general. Shouting for nerf. > > The problem with nerfing is that it starts a neverending loop behaviour, because that's when the game is really becoming unbalanced. Other races or classes needs to be nerfed too. > > The Mesmer has been very versatile through the years and when one build was nerfed, another popped up. Until the Mesmer wasn't that much versatile anymore, like out of options. Cut of the fingers one by one and the artist will no longer be able to paint. Still, no build was really op but all builds had a high level and could compete with other classes. > > > > There is another thread here, asking for a role defining of the different classes. I think that would be a great idea before starting to work on a balance. > > Should the different classes have different modifiers depending on race? Or will they all be open for everyone to select, without any race bonus/penalties? > > Should there be a total balance between the builds? Or is it okay if some are slightly better than others or may require some extra skill to maneuver through the battlefield? > > > > I know some game developers that say "A game for everyone is a game for no one" and there is some truth in that. If we had total balance and all builds were equally good at everything, it wouldn't matter what you choose or how you play. > > There's a lot to think about before balancing all the builds, I don't envy ANet. But when keep punishing a certain class like they've done here, that's not fair at all. > > I've loved the Mesmer since Guild Wars, always played it. It's really sad to see what have been done these past years. But I still have hope and we will survive these dark ages. > > After the rain, there's always sun. And then we nerf the Ranger! > > (sorry, couldn't help my self. Really, I actually have nothing against the Ranger and don't think it should be nerfed.) > > Missed your post! But have to say thank you for the explanation and the point of view you provided in the post! I agree with everything you say! > > I still want to believe in that we as mesmer community can try to do more to change this somehow (I hope atleast). And start to look at the things you mention in your post is a good way to start doing that! > > Hahahahahahahaha rangers should def get the nerf indeed xD just for fun atleast! > Btw thank you for all the fun posts you made, gave me a good laugh :D I agree totally. We can do a lot. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a computer and will not be able to play for half a year. Otherwise, I would volunteer and gladly participate in a campagn of in game protest actions. I really like what @"Veprovina.4876" suggested, that we should protest in some way. To make our voices heard, it may need some planning and streaming. Lots of viewers on a series of live streams should be able to reach the dev team and at least we'll get their attention. I don't think it matters what we do, but the key will be numbers. If we manage to gather lots of Mesmers for the cause, it should have the expected effect. Maybe using the LFG will be one of the tools to find people? What happens when we have their attention? What do we want to tell them? Do we have any idea on what will fix the Mesmer and also keep a balance in the game? Or will we be satsified with "Please, fix the Mesmer"? A plan and some well balanced ideas on changes, that will be received as reasonable, could give them push on the right path or at least make them understand that "we don't ask for op, just be able to compete on the same level and be useful in battles different builds" etc. We can do a lot and there are lots of options on how we can make us heard, hopefully we can also include all classes in our plan to balance the whole game? What if that is the spark needed to get old retired players to return, some tired players may get their inspiration back and GW2 will once again be alive like old times? A beautiful dream. ;) Would like to add, except for the Rangers and their beasts! No, just kidding. But really, that Barrage is hell in battle. :s It was fun and I will probably be around trolling some more, if I find a thread deserving it. I don't have anything else to do, being without my computer... I miss my Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > > > > > > > Ok jokes aside... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think all of us mesmer players compeletly agree on that we oppose on all OPs suggestions in this thread? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We tried to discuss this seriously with him/her, didnt work... we even tried to bring it down to OPs level, that didnt neither work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You OP, have proven two thing in this thread: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - First of all you're trolling, and you're not good at it. You can say "its easy to say your trolling" but its a fact that you are a troll proven by your own posts. > > > > > > > > > - I think you genuinely want mesmers to stay garbage in this game. This is either because you have a hard time facing them in pvp and wvw, or its because of you having a hard time playing and understanding the mesmer class. That maybe makes you salty towards this class? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New ideas and suggestions are always welcome for me, but when you try to deliberately ruin a class like this because of some strange reason, thats not ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you play with your ranger instead and keep enjoying the game in your way, and let other players enjoy their classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why i stopped responding like, a page ago... > > > > > > > > The suggestions, if serious, would kill the class and not even anet with how they like to torture mesmers are dumb enough to actually consider those as suggestions because they know that they are imbalanced and would not contribute to anyone "playing mesmers good" or being good at the class. > > > > > > > > Anf if OP is a troll, then it's pointless to respond anyway, they'll just spam their own contrarian stance for the sake of it. Which, from what i have seen in the thread is the case. Any good arguments are just flat out ignored in favor of spamming their own "opinion", and the opinion is taliored to anger people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Idk if this needs a report, but i'm inclined to believe it does due to how OP responds to anyone's argument with an "argument" that doesn't make sense, and is literally just "no, more nerfs for the sake of it". That smells like trolling and intentional antagonising to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tot agree with everything you say. Im not a usual poster on the gw2 forum (I read it alot though). but this time I just felt I have to say something, since I've seen how our class just gets destroyed for every released balance update thats been until now. Just tired of all complainers, and Anet nerfing us all the time to make them happy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hope we mesmers can get a really good balance update that we deserve some day. Restoring mesmers to their formal glory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the end of the day Mesmer is the class thats unique for gw2 as an mmo. Anet should be smart and use it as the USP it is, and nurture the class even more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup! It's time for Anet to look at mesmers as a whole and bring them in line with every other class in terms of power, support and usability. Everyone else has got so much more to offer with way less effort. Nerfing has got to stop, and threads like theese aren't helping anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, this guy is asking for nerfs on the only class that lost a core mechanic that was present since launch. Mirage lost a dodge in WvW, and it SUCKS to play it like that. It's not even funny how bad that "change" was. > > > > > > > > > > > > And i agree, anet should stop listening to complainers and give some love to the unique class they came up with. > > > > > > > > > > Great minds think alike! Maybe Anet should hire us for mesmer balancing instead! I'll promise our fellow mesmers would love the changes :) > > > > > > > > > > And for the other players who play the other classes... Get some skills and start using your brains and fingers hahahaha ;D thats what we've done until now! > > > > > > > > Ha! Indeed! :smile: > > > > I totally know what i'd do for changes (mostly), that wouldn't make it op, but would make it more streamlined and less cumbersome to play. > > > > > > > > Yet, whenever i suggest something or point that something is obviously wrong with the way some skills work (especially compared to comparable skills from other professions), there's people like OP that just troll or at the worst cases people insulting me. Doesn't happen a lot but there is a "trend" there when mesmer players are fine with how skills work and including this thread, i've run into other mesmer players that instulted me for suggesting that wells need a rework because they're not ok. Because that would somehow lower the skill level and that would somehow be bad when in reality - no amount of skill excuses a bad mechanic, especially if it plainly doesn't work in some situations. > > > > > > > > I think that's the problem, mesmer players don't seem to stick together like other classes do. > > > > > > > > I mean, why did no one protest mirage dodge loss? That is something that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. To strip a core mechanic to silence complainers. > > > > Why is this still a thing? Why can people suggest a change for the better for a mesmer and get laughed at by other mesmers? > > > > I mean, it's late and i'm explaining myself poorly but i hope you get what i mean... > > > > > > > > We need a revolution and a public in game protest lol. But to do that, people actually need to realize that there's a big disconnect between mesmers and other classes and actually want to improve how mesmers play, not spew "elitism" and "ooh you have to be good and an elite player to play mesmer" when in reality, elite players who eat mesmer knowledge and rotations and WvW skills for breakfast aren't even half as effective as other classes pressing 1234567890 in sucecession so there's that argument down the drain. Elite players should be better than everyone else and have an impact that shows how good they are. "Elite mesmers" meanwhile are barely half the impact of other classes for 10x more effort... > > > > > > > > I'm just salty from all the nerfs, especially because i remember how good mesmers used to be. NOT OP - just good and comfortable to play with a high skill - high reward type of style while being "ok" was exactly that - ok. Now it's more like extreme skill - mediocre reward because over the years, there was nothing seriously balanced in mesmers, just poorly though out nerfs that make no sense, and most of them brought on by complainers that don't even play mesmers. > > > > > > > > I don't think any class can claim they were nerfed as much as we can lol. And it's unfair and it bothers me. > > > > > > I actually agree with you and I think we mesmers need to gather up and seriously try to make a change together. I mean complainers got together and managed to get through the nerfs, so we should be able to revert this. We kind of gave up instead and just accepted this nerfs. > > > > > > Both cronos and mirages changes are awful and I cant even understand how we could let these changes happen without protesting. > > > > > > Enough is enough! Anet should first of all learn to stand firmly behind what they created and not give after and changing things because people complain cuz they are too lazy to learn the mechanics of the game. > > > > How do you think people should go about this? Cause i don't really have a clue, i mean, i had the idea to gather mesmers for a protest, but it's anyone's guess if that would work or if someone would even show up or whatever... Or do we just complain on the forums? Does Anet even read those? Or maybe make a comprehensive comparison to comparable situations between mesmer skills and traits, to other classes to kinda "scientifically prove" that mesmers got nerfed too badly? > > > > But changes to the better are definitely needed. Just don't know how to get Anet to listen. > > My thought is to use the forums. Maybe like creating new threads on different parts of the forum so chances gets bigger for Anet to see them. Its important that we all try to participate in this since we'll face other players that never wants this change to happen. > > But I really like the idea of protesting in game aswell! > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"AshkyLicious.4729" > @"Veprovina.4876" > huge list of suggestions was compiled and given to CMC by mesmer community, after SUPPOSEDLY reading it, 0 of its ideas were implemented > @"Lucio.4190" said: > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > @"Lucio.4190" said: > > > All games have the same problem. There is a small group that hate losing, starting to whine at forums and being loud in general. Shouting for nerf. > > > The problem with nerfing is that it starts a neverending loop behaviour, because that's when the game is really becoming unbalanced. Other races or classes needs to be nerfed too. > > > The Mesmer has been very versatile through the years and when one build was nerfed, another popped up. Until the Mesmer wasn't that much versatile anymore, like out of options. Cut of the fingers one by one and the artist will no longer be able to paint. Still, no build was really op but all builds had a high level and could compete with other classes. > > > > > > There is another thread here, asking for a role defining of the different classes. I think that would be a great idea before starting to work on a balance. > > > Should the different classes have different modifiers depending on race? Or will they all be open for everyone to select, without any race bonus/penalties? > > > Should there be a total balance between the builds? Or is it okay if some are slightly better than others or may require some extra skill to maneuver through the battlefield? > > > > > > I know some game developers that say "A game for everyone is a game for no one" and there is some truth in that. If we had total balance and all builds were equally good at everything, it wouldn't matter what you choose or how you play. > > > There's a lot to think about before balancing all the builds, I don't envy ANet. But when keep punishing a certain class like they've done here, that's not fair at all. > > > I've loved the Mesmer since Guild Wars, always played it. It's really sad to see what have been done these past years. But I still have hope and we will survive these dark ages. > > > After the rain, there's always sun. And then we nerf the Ranger! > > > (sorry, couldn't help my self. Really, I actually have nothing against the Ranger and don't think it should be nerfed.) > > > > Missed your post! But have to say thank you for the explanation and the point of view you provided in the post! I agree with everything you say! > > > > I still want to believe in that we as mesmer community can try to do more to change this somehow (I hope atleast). And start to look at the things you mention in your post is a good way to start doing that! > > > > Hahahahahahahaha rangers should def get the nerf indeed xD just for fun atleast! > > Btw thank you for all the fun posts you made, gave me a good laugh :D > > I agree totally. We can do a lot. > Unfortunately, I don't have access to a computer and will not be able to play for half a year. Otherwise, I would volunteer and gladly participate in a campagn of in game protest actions. I really like what @"Veprovina.4876" suggested, that we should protest in some way. To make our voices heard, it may need some planning and streaming. Lots of viewers on a series of live streams should be able to reach the dev team and at least we'll get their attention. > I don't think it matters what we do, but the key will be numbers. If we manage to gather lots of Mesmers for the cause, it should have the expected effect. Maybe using the LFG will be one of the tools to find people? > > What happens when we have their attention? What do we want to tell them? > Do we have any idea on what will fix the Mesmer and also keep a balance in the game? > Or will we be satsified with "Please, fix the Mesmer"? > A plan and some well balanced ideas on changes, that will be received as reasonable, could give them push on the right path or at least make them understand that "we don't ask for op, just be able to compete on the same level and be useful in battles different builds" etc. > > We can do a lot and there are lots of options on how we can make us heard, hopefully we can also include all classes in our plan to balance the whole game? What if that is the spark needed to get old retired players to return, some tired players may get their inspiration back and GW2 will once again be alive like old times? > A beautiful dream. ;) > > Would like to add, except for the Rangers and their beasts! No, just kidding. But really, that Barrage is hell in battle. :s > It was fun and I will probably be around trolling some more, if I find a thread deserving it. I don't have anything else to do, being without my computer... I miss my Mesmer. How about this then. Like @"Lucio.4190" said, what will we tell them if we protest? We need to have some suggestions compiled (even if they didn't read the previous ones). So before organisin any form of display, we make another list but this time with science! Make a new thread - something like "An objective look at mesmer" or whatever. The goal is to objectively compare the mesmer skills, traits and "feel" to other professions in the game that have overlapping simmilar skills. It's not news that most professions have simmilar skills and can - with different builds - do simmilar things. That's ok. What the aim of the thread would be is to kinda objectively see where mesmer is good, and where it lacks. Like for example - compare DPS mesmer to other DPS builds. Compare support mesmer to other support builds. For instance, Chronomancer, *the master of time*, has one of the longest cooldowns and cast times i've seen in game compared to the effects they do. Other professions, if they have a long cast time, then the effect is usually very strong or has a huge AOE or something. It would require a lot of research, everyone should pitch in, especially people who main mesmer and have alts to compare the experience to. The goal is not to make suggestions that would make mesmer good at everything, but first to identify what mesmers should be according to the community, what they are good at, and what still needs improvement and how they compare to professions that do the same thing as us. Then, with a comprehensive list, do some display to get anet's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 @"Veprovina.4876" one could make several A4 pages list of whats wrong with mesmer and it would still be missing loads of stuff just go down the list of weapons and every single weapon skill has something fucked with it 90% off the time let me give you an example mesmers GS 1 GS auto is good at long range, bad at close range which is fair, problem is that people can just hug you model and then you cant even fucking use it making it unusable in melee. 2 GS 2, while having same problem as gs1, when enemy hugs your model the skill won even hit, it also is RNG machine that randomly bounces, and while its fine for 1v1 scenarios, in teamfights when you throw it at enemy you cant expect to land more then 1 hit, and you end up with a heavy telegraphed skill, with long cast time and travel time, that ends up doing 1,5k dmg on glass builds. 3 GS 3 is fine, I find nothing wrong with it, its a throw away skill that is quick to cast, easy to land and deals alright damage, plenty other classes have similar skills. 4 GS 4 -> holly fucking shit this skill is bad in so many ways, its bad, bugged, unreliable, long cooldown, low damage huge cast time, huge telegraph, huge delay. Quickness doesnt work on it, phantasm itself misses, and even when all hits land the damage is laughable https://imgur.com/gallery/P3qZc8H this is GLASS CANNON chrono damage against GLASS CANNON mirage. TRAITED gs that landed 7/8 hits still deals only 4,2k dmg on absolute glass build vs glass build. To top it off I was stunned and even then I didnt get hit by everything. PS gs 2 did 2,7k dmg too which is uber pathetic for skill with its cast time, barrage + shrapnel would do 4x the damage with less cast time, less tell, in aoe. GS 5 -> this skill is fun but its so fucking bad, its PBS but worse, with low range, anti-synergy with rest of the weapon and long as fuck cooldown, to top it off its the only defense of the weapon so good fucking luck against someone with stab. If you use gs5 -> gs4, CC will be gone before phantasm does the attack and its useless, if you do gs4->gs5, you will knock enemy away as gs4 starts spinning and thus deprive yourself off damage. If you do gs2->gs5 you will knock enemy out of bounce range and clone that you want to shatter, if you gs5->gs2 you knock someone out of melee range to shatter and out off bounce range. Long cooldown, low impact, bugged ( terrain problem ), anty-synergy with rest of the weapon kit. When you compare it to rangers LB, the weapon has LESS range, LESS dmg, LONGER cooldowns and LESS utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshkyLicious.4729 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 @"Veprovina.4876" @"Lucio.4190" @"Leonidrex.5649" We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. This seriously needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > @"Veprovina.4876" > @"Lucio.4190" > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > This seriously needs to happen. This was done earlier this year, though I can't seem to find Jazz's thread. Everyone wrote walls of text. Nothing will come of it sadly - it's a case of accept stuff as it is, or wait for EoD where there may be a final deep profession review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > @"Veprovina.4876" > @"Lucio.4190" > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > This seriously needs to happen. from personal exp I find these things to never work, heck I have made insane long lists of bugs both here and in other games and none of them gets fixed, let alone balance suggestions proof neverwinter online -> https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1243527/oathbound-paladin-bugs-also-others-updated-as-new-bugs-are-found Some of the bugs I knew were so bad I could singlehandedly make my entire team get fully healed every ~0,1s with no cooldown, making them impossible to kill with anything other then dying in 1hit, all the while buffing my team to such extreames that they deal 3x-4x their damage, In fact it was so good that me + one other good player could propably win 2v10 fights against equally geared enemies, I have not shared nor reported those bugs for I knew they would not get fixed and would simply shed light into the issue and make others that would actually abuse those things know about them. btw this post is from 2018 and untill I quit the game they fixed 3 bugs ( all of which were net positive to my class, yes I reported those too. while ignore bugs so bad that for example GF could insta kill any paladin with a bug lol ) gw2 bugs -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103709/mesmer-bug-list-thingy#latest this is like 8 months old already, the only thing that was fixed is jaunt tooltip if I remember right. this sums it all up-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" > > @"Lucio.4190" > > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > > > This seriously needs to happen. > > This was done earlier this year, though I can't seem to find Jazz's thread. Everyone wrote walls of text. > > Nothing will come of it sadly - it's a case of accept stuff as it is, or wait for EoD where there may be a final deep profession review. Yes, but if you're defeated before you even try, or try again and again, then all we can expect is more nerfs and things gettin worse and worse. :confused: I can't just accept that the more i play the worse my profession will get because everyone is staying silent and complainers get a laugh out of our nerfs to stuff that was never OP in the first place. Like, i'm playing a Revenant going through story and stuff, and MAN all the skills and traits are so fluid, do decent damag and compared to mesmer skills have WAY less cooldowns and cast times for greater effect. Same with other professions. Everyone does more with less except for mesmer. Playing any of them feels so effortless compared to playing a mesmer. But if people don't have their voices heard, then there's no chance for anything to ever change, not even in the expansion. It's better to try repeatedly and fail than not try at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio.4190 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 We will probably need to begin with agree on what questions we need to ask. What do we want to know? Is it hard data from battles? Damage from specific weapons, builds and combinations? With or without support from certain allies? Weaknesses? Damage received from specific builds or weapons? Are we interested in result when being buffed by food and other support, or do we care about that? Do we want a cap for how much buffs you can get? If we want to compare and also find out if others need "fixing" too, we'll need the same tests run from them in similar situations. And then we'd need to agree on role definitions for each class, limitations etc. Lots of investigation and loads of data. Are we ready to put this much work before we finally get to the balancing? Just asking people to post all the flaws they found may result in the thread containing lots of whining instead and important information will risk drowning in lots of noise. Or... we could just forget about all flaws, all bugs and everything we think is unfair. Maybe it just doesn't matter, because we could just focus on how we would like it to be? Define the roles, describe situations that may occur etc. And then start to redesign everything from an empty paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" > > > @"Lucio.4190" > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > > > > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > > > > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > > > > > This seriously needs to happen. > > > > This was done earlier this year, though I can't seem to find Jazz's thread. Everyone wrote walls of text. > > > > Nothing will come of it sadly - it's a case of accept stuff as it is, or wait for EoD where there may be a final deep profession review. > > Yes, but if you're defeated before you even try, or try again and again, then all we can expect is more nerfs and things gettin worse and worse. :confused: > I can't just accept that the more i play the worse my profession will get because everyone is staying silent and complainers get a laugh out of our nerfs to stuff that was never OP in the first place. > > Like, i'm playing a Revenant going through story and stuff, and MAN all the skills and traits are so fluid, do decent damag and compared to mesmer skills have WAY less cooldowns and cast times for greater effect. Same with other professions. Everyone does more with less except for mesmer. Playing any of them feels so effortless compared to playing a mesmer. > > But if people don't have their voices heard, then there's no chance for anything to ever change, not even in the expansion. > It's better to try repeatedly and fail than not try at all. That wasn't the first time, not by far. I'd actually say that was the last effort (and even then I'd wager most of us couldn't be kittened at that point). This has been years of process, and countless discussions across both this and the old forum. Clear recent example - 1 year between removal of IP from Chrono and giving it back again. If that had been 1 month testing something like removal of self-shatter from chrono and iterating swiftly on it, then I'd applaud for trying out brave new ideas. Nearly 2 years between slapping Exhaustion on Elusive Mind then deciding to remove it and change the trait. The pace is glacially slow to nonexistant, especially since February (and it was already slow beforehand). I appreciate they're working on EoD elite specs right now, and we've had a difficult year with the pandemic, but it is unlikely for anything significant to change until the expansion. By all means, go for it if you feel enthusiastic enough. Just don't expect any outcome - sorry to not hold much optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepwalker.1398 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"Veprovina.4876" > 3 GS 3 is fine, I find nothing wrong with it, its a throw away skill that is quick to cast, easy to land and deals alright damage, plenty other classes have similar skills. It could be just me with Aussie lag but whenever i cast GS3, i feel like i'm immob in place for 1 second or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" > > > 3 GS 3 is fine, I find nothing wrong with it, its a throw away skill that is quick to cast, easy to land and deals alright damage, plenty other classes have similar skills. > > It could be just me with Aussie lag but whenever i cast GS3, i feel like i'm immob in place for 1 second or something. > > if you are hardcore you can jump and cast it mid air, bonus style points when you turn 180 degrees to do it. but in all seriousness I have no issues with the skill, its reliable, works, easy to land and deals decend dmg for its cast time/cooldown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbe.7630 Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Individual options for Utility skills//weapon skills on "Snap Ground Target to Current Target" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orack.9756 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" > > > 3 GS 3 is fine, I find nothing wrong with it, its a throw away skill that is quick to cast, easy to land and deals alright damage, plenty other classes have similar skills. > > It could be just me with Aussie lag but whenever i cast GS3, i feel like i'm immob in place for 1 second or something. > > I'm in France (EU server so good ping) and have the same feeling with this skill, pretty weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 aslo we should ask remove any aniclass pattern from Mesmer. Currently how I understand any melee ptv (power toughness vitality) class have less chanes to win vs common mesmers. What should be nerfed - I don't know, but current state is very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > aslo we should ask remove any aniclass pattern from Mesmer. Currently how I understand any melee ptv (power toughness vitality) class have less chanes to win vs common mesmers. What should be nerfed - I don't know, but current state is very strange. there is no such thing as common mesmer, common mesmer quit the game or switched a class. what you have are stubborn fools like me dragging a dead horse. and what does even power, thoughness, vitality even mean? From personal exp power mesmer has losing matchup into almost anything that moves, and condi mes at best is 50/50 against things they used to counter. RN mesmer is ballerina, the show is on, you spin and dance and hop and jump and you need to do it right, It doesnt matter how many mistakes you make, 1 is game over. You get it right or die trying. There is no recovery, there is no fall back plan, there is no margin of error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio.4190 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 As a chrono, sounds weird not being able to come up at 88 mph. Maybe we need a new Flux Capacitor? (Back to Future reference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 > @"Lucio.4190" said: > As a chrono, sounds weird not being able to come up at 88 mph. Maybe we need a new Flux Capacitor? (Back to Future reference) it triggers me chrono has absolutely no access to superspeed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebeard.1746 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Mesmers are crap in PVP, it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. Any AOE damage in play basically removes the mesmer's ability to shatter them or use IH. And mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > Mesmers are kitten in PVP, it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. Any AOE damage in play basically removes the mesmer's ability to shatter them or use IH. And mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. That's kind of the point of us wanting changes. Majority of mesmer skills, even their core ability is unreliable. OP is just made bad suggestion, no one actually wants 1 hp clones, we want the opposite, for them to **not** be the greatest liability and for them to **not** be removed by a single AOE. So "whining about the clones" is wanting to improve them, so that they're not a liablity and function reliably like any other profession mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > there is no such thing as common mesmer yes, ofc not it. To undesrtand that word you need accept cloud vison for classes. In this way - common mesmer exists. > and what does even power, thoughness, vitality even mean? stat combination. Most used. Btw by default it selected after boost. So it is main stat combination for most start players. > From personal exp power mesmer has losing matchup into almost anything that moves, and condi mes at best is 50/50 against things they used to counter. So it is so op ?? We stilll not have opener clasess what have 100% mesmer kill ? This shoudl be fixed. Why ? read about ptv again. > RN mesmer is ballerina, the show is on, you spin and dance and hop and jump and you need to do it right, It doesnt matter how many mistakes you make, 1 is game over. this is ok. I accept is from class description. Good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > Mesmers are kitten in PVP I am think opposite. > it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. As I say it not possible in any normal stat combination. This is works only in zerk/assasin. >mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. why at all Mesmer should have any chance in 1 vs 1 ????? >I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. I also not sure the role in pvp .. as for me it shoud be more support player, and great meat for duel for another ... but not dominate 1 vs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepwalker.1398 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > Mesmers are kitten in PVP > I am think opposite. > > > it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. > As I say it not possible in any normal stat combination. This is works only in zerk/assasin. > > >mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. > why at all Mesmer should have any chance in 1 vs 1 ????? > > >I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. > I also not sure the role in pvp .. as for me it shoud be more support player, and great meat for duel for another ... but not dominate 1 vs 1 > Is this guy for real or trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffrey.5271 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said: > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > Mesmers are kitten in PVP > > I am think opposite. > > > > > it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. > > As I say it not possible in any normal stat combination. This is works only in zerk/assasin. > > > > >mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. > > why at all Mesmer should have any chance in 1 vs 1 ????? > > > > >I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. > > I also not sure the role in pvp .. as for me it shoud be more support player, and great meat for duel for another ... but not dominate 1 vs 1 > > > > Is this guy for real or trolling? I think no one will ever know. The way s/he uses words is so 'unique' and 'complicated', that I'm sure you can tell, there's no way to know for sure if s/he's at all serious. But if you ask me, that's trolling by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 > @"Raffrey.5271" said: > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said: > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > Mesmers are kitten in PVP > > > I am think opposite. > > > > > > > it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. > > > As I say it not possible in any normal stat combination. This is works only in zerk/assasin. > > > > > > >mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. > > > why at all Mesmer should have any chance in 1 vs 1 ????? > > > > > > >I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now. > > > I also not sure the role in pvp .. as for me it shoud be more support player, and great meat for duel for another ... but not dominate 1 vs 1 > > > > > > > Is this guy for real or trolling? > > I think no one will ever know. The way s/he uses words is so 'unique' and 'complicated', that I'm sure you can tell, there's no way to know for sure if s/he's at all serious. > > But if you ask me, that's trolling by definition. there is a thin line between trolling and severe brain damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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