waht we wait for best changes to mesmer at 2020.12.14 (summary what we wait ater 2020)

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> This is a troll thread, it's obvious now... :tired_face:

 

The english is just as bad as the legendary "All is vain" post.

This one is really low tier though.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > and does something stupid like take full trailblazer without Domination then of course it is a bad build. Sure, sufficiently good players with a worse build should be able to beat sufficiently weak players with good build - on a continuous scale depending on both variables

> so you accept my suggestion, but understand yet that you accept it

Of course, yet you have ignored the main point that I stated afterwards - which puts that small subset of scenarios into the whole picture - and that big picture is not good enough when it comes to variety/options. You can't just simplify into "x combination of traits/skills => good/bad build". There is a range but the peak of "good" builds is very narrow, and too many combinations fall below what is possible for any player to do well with - when faced with the best combinations and sufficiently decent players. Eg, what if someone wanted to take scepter/focus+staff and chaotic interruption/ineptitude, mantra of distraction etc for some kind of old school condirupt. Not optimal, no, but a fair number of synergies which ought to work better than they do - it falls completely flat against any form of IH+DE mirage, or well played power shatter for example. There's too many (potentially workable) build combinations like that which should be better than they are, if Anet were to review other possibilities, rather than pigeonholing us further onto the very narrow path we have now.

> > Ok, so I suppose they should just remove IP (self-shatter) from Chrono again, for the sake of making a change?

> if roll back same thing from 0 to 1 I don't see fesh wave in it. So remove F12345 keys at all more beeter. I don't say that this is good, I say it better that remove self-shatter and back again, and remove again

So then some changes are bad and some changes are good - in this way surely Anet should be more careful what they change rather than either doing something for the sake of it, or (as in the past) crude "50%" nerfs?

 

I believe you are genuine in this thread, hence open to have a discussion - though I doubt many people here are going to agree with your perspective, as is being seen. However while we may have slight agreement on one small part of this topic, I don't think we are going to change each other's minds in general.

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

 

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Cant the moderators just delete posts like these...? mind numbing...

> let him/her also have opinion. Don't produce democratic one opinion pattern to our friendly community. Ok, some person not agree. And say "obvious now." is easy. You should try it too sometimes, to put off stress after office work. Opposite - press Like, and feel what you know properly way.

>

 

I still stand behind every post I made in your thread (even the last one). I tried to even discuss this with you but from my point of view you failed in our discussion. Your best reply to me was that mmos arent ment to be fair and if Im looking for a fair play I should play chess instead of gw2? No thank you, and you lost me there...

 

You chose the wrong class to get reactions from, cuz you need to realize that mesmer is already a class thats been kicked to death because of people like yourself had the need to just complain about it all the time. many mesmer players are just fed up with the constant complaining and nerfing, so I understand that players strongly oppose when threads like these comes up again, and the only reason is to prevent future nerfing.

Next time, choose another class to get reactions from.

 

And I kind of get where you come from when you say that all changes is better than no changes at all. But most of the mesmer players (including myself) gets very salty when the suggestions for changes is bad ones. You say that you want more "skilled" players to play as mesmers? I say that the other classes (Elementalists, Necros, Thiefs, Rangers, Engineers, Warriors, Revenants and Guardians) are the ones who need to get more skilled at this game since many of them dont need to put as much effort to be able to play their class in a good way, as we do. You should ask what mesmer players think before you decide who is "skilled" enough, and for who the mesmer class shall be designed for. This is a game, and games should first of all always be FUN. Everybody should have a chance to play this very fun and unique class, just like the other classes in the game.

 

And...

 

LEAVE MESMERS ALONE! THEY ARE HUMAN, SYLVARI, CHARR, ASURA AND NORN! LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!

inspired by Chris Crocker's "Leave Britney alone" - youtube clip ;D

[Leonidrex.5649]

I mean, guy wants to nerf clones hp, and all his reasoning is -> change is good so fuck it lets nerf it lol.

And worst of all he is probably not even trolling, just sitting alone in his chair and thinking to himself that it is perfectly logical.

Imagine if other games were like this, imagine devs off CS-GO went ahead and nerfed ak-47 dmg by 50%, fuck it change is good. Whoops everyone buys galil now, it has more damage, better recoil, more ammo and is also cheaper. Doesnt matter cuz " good " players can make it work right, RIGHT?

And funnily enough he doesnt even decided to "change" something that is a choice but something that is integral part of every mesmer, it doesnt even target anything specific but makes any and all mesmer builds suffer equally, making shitty builds shitter and OK builds shit lol

lets vote this guy for president, he will make his country gr8 again, untill he bombs something cuz change is good and a crater instead of a city is a change lulW

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Your best reply to me was that mmos arent ment to be fair and if Im looking for a fair play I should play chess instead of gw2?

I play mmo games log time. More than 20 years/ This is one of hobby, that I not change per very long term. And I see that gw2 one of best mmo implementation. But try find balance in any build/class combination is wrong way. More easy(or proper) from start say "ok, some absolutely fair is not possible" Find approximately ? yes, ma be. But not fair. Yes, here we not see that one class/biuld versus 20 other in one fight. And this is not mean that way find fair is valid.

 

> and the only reason is to prevent future nerfing.

I don't suggest nerf. Some things should be nerfed? yes. But current wells mechanic is obsolete for most pve things. My suggestion rethink it is a boost is not nerf anyway.

 

> You say that you want more "skilled" players to play as mesmers?

more % of sum. So now 6 is non skilled. 4 skilled. Sum 10. We do changes. Non skilled2, skilled 3. Sum 5. Result is more "skilled" players to play as mesmers. Why? Because "this is a game, and games should first of all always be FUN. Everybody should have a chance to play this very fun and unique class, just like the other classes in the game.

any changes not cut way choose any class and play." Cut is mathematical sum of % class population. No one like when we have more than 1 mesmer in spvp. Mesmers don't like too

 

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> I mean, guy wants to nerf clones hp, and all his reasoning is -> change is good so kitten it lets nerf it lol.

> And worst of all he is probably not even trolling, just sitting alone in his chair and thinking to himself that it is perfectly logical.

> Imagine if other games were like this, imagine devs off CS-GO went ahead and nerfed ak-47 dmg by 50%, kitten it change is good. Whoops everyone buys galil now, it has more damage, better recoil, more ammo and is also cheaper. Doesnt matter cuz " good " players can make it work right, RIGHT?

> And funnily enough he doesnt even decided to "change" something that is a choice but something that is integral part of every mesmer, it doesnt even target anything specific but makes any and all mesmer builds suffer equally, making kitten builds kitten and OK builds kitten lol

> lets vote this guy for president, he will make his country gr8 again, untill he bombs something cuz change is good and a crater instead of a city is a change lulW

 

Hahahahahahahhahaha thank you, you made my morning xD

OP will probably not get it though since "aaaaall changes are gooood" :P He/she sounds like my therapist seriously...

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Your best reply to me was that mmos arent ment to be fair and if Im looking for a fair play I should play chess instead of gw2?

> I play mmo games log time. More than 20 years/ This is one of hobby, that I not change per very long term. And I see that gw2 one of best mmo implementation. But try find balance in any build/class combination is wrong way. More easy(or proper) from start say "ok, some absolutely fair is not possible" Find approximately ? yes, ma be. But not fair. Yes, here we not see that one class/biuld versus 20 other in one fight. And this is not mean that way find fair is valid.

>

> > and the only reason is to prevent future nerfing.

> I don't suggest nerf. Some things should be nerfed? yes. But current wells mechanic is obsolete for most pve things. My suggestion rethink it is a boost is not nerf anyway.

>

> > You say that you want more "skilled" players to play as mesmers?

> more % of sum. So now 6 is non skilled. 4 skilled. Sum 10. We do changes. Non skilled2, skilled 3. Sum 5. Result is more "skilled" players to play as mesmers. Why? Because "this is a game, and games should first of all always be FUN. Everybody should have a chance to play this very fun and unique class, just like the other classes in the game.

> any changes not cut way choose any class and play." Cut is mathematical sum of % class population. No one like when we have more than 1 mesmer in spvp. Mesmers don't like too

>

>

 

And you ignored everything else I wrote aswell. It seem like you dont want to get what we other try to say, it's only your oppinions that matters. That makes it impossible to hold a discussion with you.

 

I've played mmos for a while aswell, specially guild wars. Played both GW and GW2 from beta and release. An guess what... Mesmer has been and is still my main in both games, so I think I know what Im talking about aswell when it comes to this game and the class I love to play as.

 

We dont agree me and you, but I'll not stay silent so Anet can destroy this class even more just because people suggest weird negative changes for mesmers. Just stop with that.

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> I've played mmos for a while aswell, specially guild wars. Played both GW and GW2 from beta and release. An guess what... Mesmer has been and is still my main in both games, so I think I know what Im talking about aswell when it comes to this game and the class I love to play as.

thats a prove my word. Mesmer is a still main? we need cut and cut it, and add new content, that already exist for that people. To many player use mesmer as main class long time.

Do we can lose someone? yes. But anyway if not do it we will lose more for people who paly one class and say "I don't have new content". Prevent switch classes is a great source of new already exist content. So do it! They changes push from mesmer role, someone come try new setup. The move is a live.

 

[Lucio.4190]

@"lare.5129" No opinion on my suggestions? I think those changes would make the game a lot better. What do you say?

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"Lucio.4190" said:

> @"lare.5129" No opinion on my suggestions? I think those changes would make the game a lot better. What do you say?

 

Dont think OP cares for your suggestions at all! OP basically just said he/she completly want mesmer removed from the game hahahaha

 

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > I've played mmos for a while aswell, specially guild wars. Played both GW and GW2 from beta and release. An guess what... Mesmer has been and is still my main in both games, so I think I know what Im talking about aswell when it comes to this game and the class I love to play as.

> thats a prove my word. Mesmer is a still main? we need cut and cut it, and add new content, that already exist for that people. To many player use mesmer as main class long time.

> Do we can lose someone? yes. But anyway if not do it we will lose more for people who paly one class and say "I don't have new content". Prevent switch classes is a great source of new already exist content. So do it! They changes push from mesmer role, someone come try new setup. The move is a live.

>

 

Believe it or not but YES mesmer is still my main and will always be! Other classes just doesnt work for me.

I know plenty who still has mesmer as main and will probably leave the game if Anet would dare removing mesmer from the game. And that wouldnt be good for the game at all.

 

Your suggestions falls short, sorry. Your just like the others who dont want mesmer in game since they are too OP for you to face, and you have yet proven me wrong in this either.

 

[lare.5129]

> @"Lucio.4190" said:

> @"lare.5129" No opinion on my suggestions? I think those changes would make the game a lot better. What do you say?

I am think direction remove all clones at all is more proper way.. Ot left them 1hp ..

But ofc make incresed clone hp is good ide too. On this way we need give mesmer very very low base hp, 5-6k aprox.. Or 2k hp ? And make all gameplay dependably from clones. But in this way we break many things and do low of works. This is can be for EoD new spec. Cut mesmer hp 10x, and make clones magical. Good idea.

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> I know plenty who still has mesmer as main and will probably leave the game if Anet would dare removing mesmer from the game.

no any point remove, enough nerf and rework.

 

> Your suggestions falls short, sorry. Your just like the others who dont want mesmer in game since they are too OP for you to face, and you have yet proven me wrong in this either.

no let then stay. But they must be eatable and useless for mass

 

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > I know plenty who still has mesmer as main and will probably leave the game if Anet would dare removing mesmer from the game.

> no any point remove, enough nerf and rework.

>

> > Your suggestions falls short, sorry. Your just like the others who dont want mesmer in game since they are too OP for you to face, and you have yet proven me wrong in this either.

> no let then stay. But they must be eatable and useless for mass

>

>

 

Ok. Why do you want mesmers to be a useless? Im really curious to know. Try to explain as detailed as possible :)

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Ok. Why do you want mesmer to be a useless? Im really curious to know. Try to explain as detailed as possible :)

one of good way be elitare - be useless. We need class for elitare players, and mesmer already for us. And I suggest improve it. It make some fun.

k, here exsample: do you have any video for normal 5x fractal 1000 cms party whrere druid heal, mesmer boons, and 3 dps ? No video from handled elitare, i ask about common wizaland elitare players. I don't see it. So if you already can do it in common 5x setup - you make sence. And it is fine. Se let it be in spvp an wvw the same way.

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Ok. Why do you want mesmer to be a useless? Im really curious to know. Try to explain as detailed as possible :)

> one of good way be elitare - be useless. We need class for elitare players, and mesmer already for us. And I suggest improve it. It make some fun.

> k, here exsample: do you have any video for normal 5x fractal 1000 cms party whrere druid heal, mesmer boons, and 3 dps ? No video from handled elitare, i ask about common wizaland elitare players. I don't see it. So if you already can do it in common 5x setup - you make sence. And it is fine. Se let it be in spvp an wvw the same way.

>

 

But how can a useless class be "elite"?

 

How will people be able to compete with other superior classes in game?

 

Because if mesmer as class is useless, even your own perfect skills might not save you?

 

Just curious :)

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> But how can a useless class be "elitare"?

of if main concept of elitare - is useless. If any one can take it and dominate - this is no elitare. We have trait line Domination is mesmer. This is the way.

 

> How will people be able to compete with other superior classes in game?

> Because if mesmer as class is useless, even your own perfect skills might not save you?

It is not problem. on spvp we have mmr system. On wvw 40 > 1

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > But how can a useless class be "elitare"?

> of if main concept of elitare - is useless. If any one can take it and dominate - this is no elitare. We have trait line Domination is mesmer. This is the way.

>

> > How will people be able to compete with other superior classes in game?

> > Because if mesmer as class is useless, even your own perfect skills might not save you?

> It is not problem. on spvp we have mmr system. On wvw 40 > 1

>

 

Correct me if Im wrong but do you want to make a elite spec called "Useless"?

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Correct me if Im wrong but do you want to make a elite spec called "Useless"?

we can called is as "Master of Solid Dragons". Name can be giant. It not problem for me. And for me word useless is always part of elite and elitare.

As I say you can do powerful class and say it is elite. It is nonse for me.

 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Correct me if Im wrong but do you want to make a elite spec called "Useless"?

> we can called is as "Master of Solid Dragons". Name can be giant. It not problem for me. And for me word useless is always part of elite and elitare.

> As I say you can do powerful class and say it is elite. It is nonse for me.

>

 

Interesting, elaborate more about your elite spec. Want to know more details :)

[Lucio.4190]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Lucio.4190" said:

> > @"lare.5129" No opinion on my suggestions? I think those changes would make the game a lot better. What do you say?

> I am think direction remove all clones at all is more proper way.. Ot left them 1hp ..

> But ofc make incresed clone hp is good ide too. On this way we need give mesmer very very low base hp, 5-6k aprox.. Or 2k hp ? And make all gameplay dependably from clones. But in this way we break many things and do low of works. This is can be for EoD new spec. Cut mesmer hp 10x, and make clones magical. Good idea.

 

But I believe in more HP for both Mesmer and all the clones. That way, the Mesmer will be able to both tank and support. A very valuable member of the team.

More clones and more HP, that is a change I can live with and a solid base to start building up the Mesmer from. I have some more suggestions on how to improve the profession, but I will post them later.

But another change that I would like to suggest is nerfing the Ranger (it's so OP) and give it the title Creator of Gods. Those arrows from Barrage are spread to wide and the beasts shouldn't be allowed at all. And how can you shoot an arrow and then become invisible (Hunter's Shot), shouldn't that arrow expose you instead? But that's another topic.

[lare.5129]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> Interesting, elaborate more about your elite spec.

I have all elites specs. And on Mesmer I am sure we need that changes that I desribe in first post

 

>Want to know more details :)

I don't care detail, we need passionate move forward, but not stuck on some details. Let it some random during implementation.

 

[lare.5129]

> @"Lucio.4190" said:

> But I believe in more HP for both Mesmer and all the clones.

I see more fun if mesmer hp is aproh 2k, and clones more fat than mesmer .. This is one of ways. do strong both bad idea, as I say we need elite nice class, but not easy winner.

 

>That way, the Mesmer will be able to both tank and support.

it already depend from traits, elite spec, and set.

 

>A very valuable member of the team.

for team no any difference what class. Value is mmr level. It reduce any class difference in spvp.

 

> More clones and more HP, that is a change I can live with and a solid base to start building up the Mesmer from.

this is not target. we need puch them from stable and run across all classes. Solid base not good. Mesmers to much and play same class to long.

 

> But another change that I would like to suggest is nerfing the Ranger (it's so OP) and give it the title Creator of Gods.

Op for ranger ok. It not elite class. Ranger can be asked be stronger or only nerf mesmer.

 

 

[Lucio.4190]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > Interesting, elaborate more about your elite spec.

> I have all elites specs. And on Mesmer I am sure we need that changes that I desribe in first post

>

> >Want to know more details :)

> I don't care detail, we need passionate move forward, but not stuck on some details. Let it some random during implementation.

>

 

How about implementing a new skill for the Mesmer?

Fooled You - 80% of Expertise added to Vitality, 90% of Precision is added to Power.

This skill should be active for.. 10 minutes.

 

Think about it. Having that Mesmer on your team would make you shiver with delight. I'm having goosebumps already.

That is a good change.

[Lucio.4190]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Lucio.4190" said:

> > But I believe in more HP for both Mesmer and all the clones.

> I see more fun if mesmer hp is aproh 2k, and clones more fat than mesmer .. This is one of ways. do strong both bad idea, as I say we need elite nice class, but not easy winner.

>

Change is good. A more tanky Mesmer, with lots of Health, could attack from both distance and close combat it would be able to deal lots of damage. That would be different from now. High dps and an evasive play style, hard to hit. That is good.

> >That way, the Mesmer will be able to both tank and support.

> it already depend from traits, elite spec, and set.

Yes! Then Mesmer should have an addition to the Signet of the Ether, adding Expertise/3 to Vitality and Power. That will increase the chances of survivability and deal lots of damage. Awsome!

>

> >A very valuable member of the team.

> for team no any difference what class. Value is mmr level. It reduce any class difference in spvp.

>

Right! Necros has minions, Beastmaster has its beasts and Mesmer has the clones. Then Mesmer should be able to make beasts and minions too! An illusion can look like anything. Thanks, would never have thought of that.

 

> > More clones and more HP, that is a change I can live with and a solid base to start building up the Mesmer from.

> this is not target. we need puch them from stable and run across all classes. Solid base not good. Mesmers to much and play same class to long.

>

You change class, I keep the Mesmer. I'm making the Mesmer a lot better now and want to keep it. With my changes implemented, it will become a new Mesmer and a lot of fun to play with. That is a good change.

> > But another change that I would like to suggest is nerfing the Ranger (it's so OP) and give it the title Creator of Gods.

> Op for ranger ok. It not elite class. Ranger can be asked be stronger or only nerf mesmer.

>

>

But I like nerfing the Ranger. There are too many of them and they need to change class. Maybe they will choose Mesmer if my suggestions will be implemented.

I will need to elaborate this more, see if it can be improved further. Good talk! Thanks!

[lare.5129]

> @"Lucio.4190" said:

> How about implementing a new skill for the Mesmer?

I don't sure how to do better. Exsample: I see that for most pve cases wells obsolete . CS also can be reworked. How implement new - not for us.

 

>80% of Expertise

I am no sure that we need at all keep mesmer as condi class.

 

> This skill should be active for.. 10 minutes.

so in this way skill can removes and added/changed as trait

> Mesmer on your team would make you shiver with delight.

no on in team not change nothing. We already have mmr. So if abstract necro is 5x stronger than abstract warrior, and they both in you team this is mena that thay produce aprox some value and it not depend class. Same and wiht mesmer.