memausz.7264 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. It needs to go, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opopanax.1803 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 now even Rabid is too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Im next complaining about menders. P.S its rev thats broken not rabid but im fine with it being removed since its boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > now even Rabid is too much? _____yep_____  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 *laughs in Carrion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Why is there still amulets in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Because it's a 3 stats amulet Low hp classes can't use it It's very very situational in most cases And that precision is useless for most classes And like you said there are 2 builds using it atm, and i guess they have to run 2 condi cleanses to not die to any condi build in 10 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Scourge with rabid is also a meta contender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Should you remember that conditions are damage overtime, if people can't even keep themselves going for 2 seconds against Power DPS, what's the point of playing any at all. I play Rabid on Core Revenant, used to be Destroyer and Carrion, two amulets that proven themselves to not be as useful because I have no use for power/precision/ferocity even if I play properly with my hard hitting skills along the way as Mallyx utility does almost nothing in term of Power Damage. Vitality is further more useless because never I'll have myself fully healed in a fight with so little to begin with, Herald can though. Most Condition builds that play on Rabid have no use for precision which makes it quite close to being a 2 stats amulet, way more balanced than what Wanderer was at Precision, Condition, Toughness and Expertise. People have complained about condition damage being too easy build on damage and now here we are complaining about it on 900+, not even it's highest number because it has 900+ Toughness to help it survive for the wait it has to deal with as damage overtime? I think it's time to accept some builds counter yours. Also it's not illegal to survive 1v2's, some other builds do it without Rabid and with better means to do damage. If you have problems fighting Herald Revenant in it's current state, clearly someone is feeding it damage, ironically having Toughness prevents Infuse Light from being as efficient as it normally would be without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > It needs to go, in my opinion. You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 If this goes on, there won't be any amulets left by the end of 2021. I don't think Rabid is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovark.2514 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Khalisto.5780" said: > Because it's a 3 stats amulet > They normalized the stats from 3 and 4 stat amulets. Now there is no statistical advantage to having a 4 stat over 3 stat in sPvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Fueki.4753" said: > If this goes on, there won't be any amulets left by the end of 2021. > > I don't think Rabid is strong. It isnt This is one of those cases you have 4 power builds and a core necro that will mostly spend his time in mid fights in the other team, so you can run rabid to side node Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. Barbarian had only vitality, so the hypothesis doesn't hold much value. Besides we still have Valkyrie and Carrion. Look carefully, we have the option to delete traits and multipliers from a class or delete what causes any class to be OP with those traits. Let's keep damage in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. Still ignores the real reason; primary verses secondary stats, as well as the other stats that come with the amulet. i.e healing power with vitality is fine but healing power with toughness isnt. There's nothing inconsistent when you look at what had actually been removed. The three that got removed main stat defensive. Paladin got nerfed since it had both defensive stats and cele got removed since it had all 3. Removing rabid for its toughness means you would need to remove valk and carrion for their vit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. > > Barbarian had only vitality, so the hypothesis doesn't hold much value. Besides we still have Valkyrie and Carrion. > > Look carefully, we have the option to delete traits and multipliers from a class or delete what causes any class to be OP with those traits. Let's keep damage in. They can just play Wizard's or Carrion. I shouldn't adjust because the game is rewarding such lazy builds. And yeah the theory holds up because that was still the reasoning behind it - super high sustain builds. With Barbarian, you could legit have a 35K base HP Necro. Think of shroud with that - that's an addition -50% incoming direct dmg and condi dmg - a permanent Spectrum Shield. Add to that all the sources of protection.... and for a little less HP, also having access to Eternal Life... and you've got yourself a trait tank that's unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. > > Still ignores the real reason; primary verses secondary stats, as well as the other stats that come with the amulet. i.e healing power with vitality is fine but healing power with toughness isnt. > > There's nothing inconsistent when you look at what had actually been removed. > > The three that got removed main stat defensive. Paladin got nerfed since it had both defensive stats and cele got removed since it had all 3. > > Removing rabid for its toughness means you would need to remove valk for its vit. > > Yeah and there's an argument to be had about Valkyrie, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Don't delete. Put damage back in the game if 900 toughness is too annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > > > > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > > > > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. > > > > Barbarian had only vitality, so the hypothesis doesn't hold much value. Besides we still have Valkyrie and Carrion. > > > > Look carefully, we have the option to delete traits and multipliers from a class or delete what causes any class to be OP with those traits. Let's keep damage in. > > They can just play Wizard's or Carrion. I shouldn't adjust because the game is rewarding such lazy builds. And yeah the theory holds up because that was still the reasoning behind it - super high sustain builds. With Barbarian, you could legit have a 35K base HP Necro. Think of shroud with that - that's an addition -50% incoming direct dmg and condi dmg - a permanent Spectrum Shield. Add to that all the sources of protection.... and for a little less HP, also having access to Eternal Life... and you've got yourself a trait tank that's unkillable. But no damage. Since when is being a tank not allowed? Carrion is arguably better for Necro, those running Rabid clearly don't care, Wizard is if you care to be hybrid. Condition stats deserve to have some Toughness, they're bound to wait for you to die, you aren't waiting with instant damage. Knight was removed because toughness just like condition damage is a two way benefit, makes your starting vitality better and so the same for all that you can heal for, weak to conditions but its nothing if it can be cleared. Condition damage doesn't need 2 extra stats to be well worth, but expertise was removed from the mode, damage isn't instant and can be removed. It's only fair and why power is still meta. We kept Paladins because it balances investments as Vitality makes it so you're tankier but healing doesn't compensate as much and the Toughness makes your vitality much more valuable so healing sorta benefits, it's pretty much a weaker version of Knight. They still had to balance it prior because some professions like Ranger have broken traits of which investing in Toughness was too good. Some would argue Rangers with their pet damage are still whack with current Paladins. Cavalier being removed was a good measure to make sure they wouldn't cheese their way further with Sigil of Intelligence and repeat the same annoying problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The amount of people in this game who primarily try to deal with condi by complaining that amulets need to be removed is quite ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Yes the amulet allows for condi bunker-ish setups... how is that a bad thing? Condi bunker should absolutely be viable playstyle. As long as they have bad sustain and they go for "outlasting" enemies, it's a totally valid concept. Stop removing amulets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Remove carrion and bring cavalier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > I thought we were done with amulets that granted players more than 500+ toughness... seems not to be the case if Rabid amulet is still going to be around. It allows condi revenants and condi rangers to sit and bunk nodes even against two direct dmg dps players for extended periods of time with not much effort. > > > > > > > > > > It needs to go, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > You need to actually think about the amulets that have been removed if "it has more than 500 toughness!1!1!" is your reasoning > > > > > > Well that's literally the reasoning for deleting all the other amulets with lots of toughness or lots of toughness and vitality. Barbarian amulet - gone. Paladin amulet - nerfed. Cavalier's Amulet - deleted. Knight Amulet - deleted. YEah, there's precedent for it. Not this inconsistency of "Oh, let's nerf CC direct dmg to zero... except Lightning Rod, Fear, etc. This inconsistency screws with the balance if there is no consistent design philosophy. > > > > > > So yes, 100% justified in deleting an amulet based on precedent. If you don't like it, petition for knight's amulet to return. > > > > Still ignores the real reason; primary verses secondary stats, as well as the other stats that come with the amulet. i.e healing power with vitality is fine but healing power with toughness isnt. > > > > There's nothing inconsistent when you look at what had actually been removed. > > > > The three that got removed main stat defensive. Paladin got nerfed since it had both defensive stats and cele got removed since it had all 3. > > > > Removing rabid for its toughness means you would need to remove valk for its vit. > > > > > > Yeah and there's an argument to be had about Valkyrie, too. While there is a good argument for removing valkeryie amulet - that would literally kill a few builds which absolutely need it to be viable and keep in mind none of these are too strong except possibly ranger but even then it’s just a budget 1v1er/roamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 > @"Avatar.3568" said: > Remove carrion and bring cavalier It doesn't seem like a good idea, pile this up with a prec rune and a good ferocity uptime you have a very strong demolisher amulet. This would outsustain any other power build and still have a very good dps. In adition you ask to remove the most popular condi amulet making cavalier even more powerful it would faceroll wizards while all other builds would be forced into rabid and sages. And carrion is maybe too good on necros, or in a situation condi builds are dominating meta. The meta as it is rn carrion is properly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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