Will we ever get respect from Anet? Or Thief just doesnt deserve it?

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> >

> > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all?

>

> Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up.

> Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true.

>

 

Except this has nothing to do with mesmer?

Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility.

 

Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast.

 

If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring the thief.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > >

> > > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all?

> >

> > Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up.

> > Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true.

> >

>

> Except this has nothing to do with mesmer?

> Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility.

>

> Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast.

>

> If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring

This^ man its like if u chose mesmer u have to constantly complain about about thief on the forums like its a right of passage lol.

[Salt Mode.3780]

the fact that you said thieves are less dominant in WvW + "they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad" is all I need to read. A good mesmer vs a thief in the same skill cap mesmers should never win. In terms of reapers thieves cc locking + kite reapers / necros really dont have much left for them as they have NO access to stab besides elite + reaper 3.

The point of it wasn't to complain about thieves, for once mesmers don't get the oh they need a nerf and now going on thieves yet thief mains are defending how much they need buffs etc etc saying they arent that good blah blah blah. Honestly finding it to be hilarious.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> the fact that you said thieves are less dominant in WvW + "they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad" is all I need to read. A good mesmer vs a thief in the same skill cap mesmers should never win. In terms of reapers thieves cc locking + kite reapers / necros really dont have much left for them as they have NO access to stab besides elite + reaper 3.

> The point of it wasn't to complain about thieves, for once mesmers don't get the oh they need a nerf and now going on thieves yet thief mains are defending how much they need buffs etc etc saying they arent that good blah blah blah. Honestly finding it to be hilarious.

 

They're not dominant because they don't really win. They can disengage, but it doesn't really mean anything if their opponent gets to do the same and can match the re-engage. I call it Scaredevil because most of the time the class solely runs away rather than actually **doing** anything into a decently-skilled opponent. It's safe, but it's not actually effective. Safety is way more influential in sPvP where a decap beast without combat is totally viable to carry a team. This isn't the case in WvW.

 

The problem is that the strength of the profession is extremely volatile and entirely upheld by a few bad design choices, which have been the same forever. The thief outside of a very specific play style and build is atrocious. In my opinion, about equal to core mesmer, with its lows being a bit lower in my opinion.

 

The mirage suffered from a similar problem in that it was strong because of objectively bad design in a few areas that made all other options pointless and impossible to balance, and thus had to get changed (they should have just deleted MC and EM and reworked Mirage like Deadeye, but they didn't rather than hitting the dodge acces), and with the damage nerfs from February, made mesmer - a class literally designed to burst - like many thief builds, weak and purposeless.

 

Thief's problem is the same as pre-nerf Mirage, but ANet has let the problem mechanics linger for close to a decade rather than doing anything at all to open up the other builds because said problem mechanics are entirely what has kept the class historically good. Across every meta. Ever. The offmeta choices continue to get nerfed and can't feasibly be buffed while the problem-design exists.

 

So outside of the best build, the thief itself is in a really bad spot, so generic nerfs and statements like "thief is OP" are neither good ideas nor really correct.

[Sarpan.9074]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought I'd stumbled into the Mesmer forum for a minute.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

imagine the forum out cries if thief had poison stacks that burst like burn does and they applied it passively like guards, wierd guards not being immediately adjusted as thief surely would lol.

[TheThief.8475]

> @"Sarpan.9074" said:

> When I saw the title of this thread I thought I'd stumbled into the Mesmer forum for a minute.

 

Thief and mesmer may be in the same position so, people hate them because it's hard to play agains them, asks for nerfs, Anet nerf them forever, and you can play 1-2 build and only a role (roamer for thief) ggwp balance team :D

[TheThief.8475]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> imagine the forum out cries if thief had poison stacks that burst like burn does and they applied it passively like guards, wierd guards not being immediately adjusted as thief surely would lol.

 

Let's not talk about dh traps oneshotting you while they afk? ok?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > >

> > > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all?

> >

> > Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up.

> > Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true.

> >

>

> Except this has nothing to do with mesmer?

> Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility.

>

> Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast.

>

> If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, **thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile**, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring the thief.

 

This is my bone with the past months' thief treatment. The "issue" most players have is clearly D/P thief, yet the nerfs hurt other thief builds far more than stealth ones. IDK about you, but the combined nerfs to IA and Signet of Agility in PvP are VERY noticeable for a sword main hand.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > >

> > > > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all?

> > >

> > > Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up.

> > > Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true.

> > >

> >

> > Except this has nothing to do with mesmer?

> > Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility.

> >

> > Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast.

> >

> > If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, **thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile**, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring the thief.

>

> This is my bone with the past months' thief treatment. **The "issue" most players have is clearly D/P thief,** yet the nerfs hurt other thief builds far more than stealth ones. IDK about you, but the combined nerfs to IA and Signet of Agility in PvP are VERY noticeable for a sword main hand.

 

I suggest you to play core d/p in pvp. You would be amazed (Warning: you might want to destroy your keyboard or monitor, so make sure to secure those). DD or rather P2W formula for pvp is the "issue" but it will never be fixed because company wants quick money.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all?

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up.

> > > > Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except this has nothing to do with mesmer?

> > > Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility.

> > >

> > > Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast.

> > >

> > > If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, **thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile**, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring the thief.

> >

> > This is my bone with the past months' thief treatment. **The "issue" most players have is clearly D/P thief,** yet the nerfs hurt other thief builds far more than stealth ones. IDK about you, but the combined nerfs to IA and Signet of Agility in PvP are VERY noticeable for a sword main hand.

>

> I suggest you to play core d/p in pvp. You would be amazed (Warning: you might want to destroy your keyboard or monitor, so make sure to secure those). DD or rather P2W formula for pvp is the "issue" but it will never be fixed because company wants quick money.

 

Oh, I am well aware, I've been an avid thief player for a while now. Thief in PvP is currently outclassed by mesmer in terms of, well, almost everything, on top of facing an unfavorable meta. In WvW D/P thief is still very good, though, as is DE.

 

In WvW I can confidently 1v3, even 1v5 players below my skill level, and actually kill people - in PvP, it takes quite a while to even kill a support 1v1, lol.

[felix.2386]

how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

[Dave.6819]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

 

Maybe because i've played Thief since 2013 and now comparing it to 2020 and seeing all those nerfs over the years.. dont even wanna play it in pvp/wvw anymore. Comparing how it was and how it is now it's just.. meh.. not the class that i used to love. It's basically a mesmer treatment or even worse. Probably worse.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

 

Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"felix.2386" said:

> > how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> > i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> > even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> > it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

>

> Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

> A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

> Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

> U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

> Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

 

It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so damn sad.

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> > > i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> > > even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> > > it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

> >

> > Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

> > A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

> > Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

> > U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

> > Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

>

> It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so kitten sad.

>

>

 

Yeah I honestly couldn't imagine thief trying to 1v1 these days without stealth lol its been nerfed to the ground, its sad the main burst class gets out burst by tanks nowadays lmao.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> > > > i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> > > > even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> > > > it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

> > >

> > > Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

> > > A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

> > > Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

> > > U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

> > > Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

> >

> > It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so kitten sad.

> >

> >

>

> Yeah I honestly couldn't imagine thief trying to 1v1 these days without stealth lol its been nerfed to the ground, its sad the main burst class gets out burst by tanks nowadays lmao.

 

Rune of Durability + marauder gear > thief. The sad truth.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > > how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> > > > > i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> > > > > even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> > > > > it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

> > > >

> > > > Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

> > > > A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

> > > > Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

> > > > U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

> > > > Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

> > >

> > > It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so kitten sad.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Yeah I honestly couldn't imagine thief trying to 1v1 these days without stealth lol its been nerfed to the ground, its sad the main burst class gets out burst by tanks nowadays lmao.

>

> Rune of Durability + marauder gear > thief. The sad truth.

 

Honestly though its not a huge loss, it will be if the actually start balancing and supporting this games pvp modes but till then its a meme lol just play few matches with thief for a fix than move on, ghost of tsushima and valheim have been helping me from playing gw2 to often which for me leads to frustration lol.

[Turk.5460]

I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

 

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

>

> And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

 

What would you nerf?

[Turk.5460]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

> >

> > And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

>

> What would you nerf?

 

Off the top of my head:

-Damage shave on Shadow shot and remove its blind. This skill has been extremely bloated forever.

-Damage shave on Skirmisher's shot

-%damage per malice reduced on Death's Judgement

-Remove damaging condi application from Steal traits and replace with utility (I am a firm believer that condi builds should NEVER be burst-related since its impossible to balance thanks to Dire/TB)

 

I've probably had a couple more come to mind but those stand out.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

> > >

> > > And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

> >

> > What would you nerf?

>

> Off the top of my head:

> -Damage shave on Shadow shot and remove its blind. This skill has been extremely bloated forever.

> -Damage shave on Skirmisher's shot

> -%damage per malice reduced on Death's Judgement

> -Remove damaging condi application from Steal traits and replace with utility (I am a firm believer that condi builds should NEVER be burst-related since its impossible to balance thanks to Dire/TB)

>

> I've probably had a couple more come to mind but those stand out.

 

I would've agreed with Shadow Shot nerf pre-Feb 2020. Rest seems fine.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

>

> And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

 

wvw yeah damage is good but pvp conquest is a whole different beast entirely and uve got classes that have no right to be bursting anywhere close to a rogue like while having tank stats.

If u can tank a lot of damage than the reason why USUALLY that class does not have high burst is because u can stay in the fight and build ur dps up through sustained dps while a rogue like cannot and has to do its damage entirely through bursts unless of course the rogue is far more skilled than opponent and is able to stay in the fight.

Right now uve got classes that can take continuous long bouts of pressure all while bursting as much or more than the thief, thats so messed up.

Anyway just my opinion, I hardly play these days so matters little.

[Dave.6819]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > > > how can a thief abandon pvp/wvw, where it is the most busted class that destroy the mode for years

> > > > > > i can see thief quit pve, but pvp/wvw? a lot of people play thief only for pvp/wvw too

> > > > > > even when underperforming as 5v5 organized meta comp for tournaments.

> > > > > > it will always be good in ranked, top10 top25 will always have multiple thief mains.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol cmon. In pvp teefs a loss vs every class but war and mesmer, even then a good warrior can definitely out play and destroy a thief, especially if thief misses a couple blinds. It has to +1 most classes to down them, and in this meta that can even take too long when u combine the tanks builds around now with the Feb damage nerfs. Thief has to make good on decapping to pull its weight which just got nerfed with IA cost nerf and jump on already engaged targets to get its downs more times than not, that sound op?

> > > > > A class designed like thief/rogue already produces salt, combine that with +1 playstyle which creates salt on its own is a recipe for hate, but its not thief players fault that they enjoy rogue classes and that this particular one isn't great at 1v1's.

> > > > > Wvw, Teefs excel at roaming, shouldn't they though? They certainly have far less presence in zergs than almost any other class ie warrior. Almost ever class contributes to zerg fights far more than thief if not all so shouldn't it be allowed to be good at roaming.

> > > > > U know its funny u see very very few thiefs complaining about thief short commings in zerg fights yet tons of players who on their own accord chose to play a class/build more suited to zergs complain about thief being strong at roaming compared to their class yet dont consider how and why when their killed on their way to their zerg where they become 2x more useful than a teef could dream of. To add some classes like warrior as a example have both effective zerg builds and roaming builds so its fine if the warrior tho great at roaming isn't as good as a class like teef who specializes in the roaming role.

> > > > > Honestly bias has led this game down the drain but that's on anet in the end.

> > > >

> > > > It's funny, though; thief's traditionally been one of the better roamer classes in WvW, yet is clearly being overtaken by revenant, ranger and engineer. Thief is cleanly out-DPS'd in every game mode even if they choose a non-stealth build with a focus on dueling. Stealth is the sole reason the class is even able to exist at the moment. Sad, so kitten sad.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yeah I honestly couldn't imagine thief trying to 1v1 these days without stealth lol its been nerfed to the ground, its sad the main burst class gets out burst by tanks nowadays lmao.

> >

> > Rune of Durability + marauder gear > thief. The sad truth.

>

> Honestly though its not a huge loss, it will be if the actually start balancing and supporting this games pvp modes but till then its a meme lol just play few matches with thief for a fix than move on, ghost of tsushima and valheim have been helping me from playing gw2 to often which for me leads to frustration lol.

 

I found another mmo "drug/fix" for myself. In a game that i wouldnt ever expect to get hooked on. And omg im so addicted now. It's Albion. Ik ik it seems like some runescape knock-off or somethin.. but omg i'm hooked. It only takes a fair amount of time to give that game a chance and it was so worth it. I'm stuck there probably for even more hours then i was when i started gw2 back in the day. The whole full-loot system is a double-edged sword. Sometimes you hate it sometimes you love it but no matter what you just keep coming back. Full-loot pvp is my new passion haha.

 

So until a new expansion or until devs of gw2 wake up and do something - i'll be stuck there. GW2 is now only for dailies and log out. Even for dailies i have to force myself to login. Just a habit i guess of getting those 10ap.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

> >

> > And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

>

> wvw yeah damage is good but pvp conquest is a whole different beast entirely and uve got classes that have no right to be bursting anywhere close to a rogue like while having tank stats.

> If u can tank a lot of damage than the reason why USUALLY that class does not have high burst is because u can stay in the fight and build ur dps up through sustained dps while a rogue like cannot and has to do its damage entirely through bursts unless of course the rogue is far more skilled than opponent and is able to stay in the fight.

> Right now uve got classes that can take continuous long bouts of pressure all while bursting as much or more than the thief, thats so messed up.

> Anyway just my opinion, I hardly play these days so matters little.

 

Not just that, the entire meta's turned hostile towards thief w/ Rune of the Trapper all over the place. If there's no bunker on the node you can be sure there's at least a sidenode trapper in there.

 

CMC logic: "Let's remove all of thief's burst AND heavily gimp their ability to remain in a fight as a sustained DPS - oh, they've turned to roaming you say? Well then, gimp their mobility WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATIONS. That'll show them what's balance. "

 

Pure genius. Absolute, unadultered, bunker main logic.