RedAvenged.5217 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Not only is our meta so tanky that no one can kill a support but they seriously thought there was power creep. Now tell is there an actually functional game with maps and game play on this wide scale that has supports as the hard carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollbirtan.2915 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. Was about to say the same thing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAvenged.5217 Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. I call bs. Support holding a node by itself is insanely common and it can often even 1v2 forever by its self bringing huge value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. > > I call bs. Support holding a node by itself is insanely common and it can often even 1v2 forever by its self bringing huge value. My experience are when support is solo it has no value, if support is 2vs1 it dies Tho if the player knows how To Kill it dies in 1vs1 too, just takes a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen.1483 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I guess you mean a "bunker" class, not a "support", because it is bunkers (even if they are supports) that camp a node and try to kite on node as long as possible. It is actually their role to do it. It depends on situations but it isn't a class issue. I would say don't fight them 1v1 if they are just idling there, go help your team win somewhere else force them to get off the node and decap it, if he is still not moving out, it is even better, because you can outnumber your enemies elsewhere and win a teamfight, then potentially come zerg him when their whole team is dead. But if you are asking for the lolz and want to troll some games with 1v1ing a tank, any dps class will do if you play inteligently, but it will take a long time. Try revenant, they have good ways of forcing enemies out of nodes with spirits and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. > > I call bs. Support holding a node by itself is insanely common and it can often even 1v2 forever by its self bringing huge value. Current Weaver bruh. No idea why it isn't being complained about in forum tbh. It really is insanely and obnoxiously strong on side nodes in this patching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcore.5621 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Who play pvp in this game anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. > > I call bs. Support holding a node by itself is insanely common and** it can often even 1v2 forever by its self bringing huge value.** The only problem with this is having team mates who think they need to engage into them. Honestly. A side noder in the enemy team camping a node solo is almost a free win if everybody ignores it. If one dude is camping a node the entire match it means that you gain a 5v4 advantage over the other 2 nodes - simple as that. Use it! You only need to hold 2 nodes to win the match, don't be stupid and waste your time against a bunker. Not only limited to bunker camping a node but rather in general.. through playing in every skill group from silver 1 to plat 3 I've noticed that in lower elo people tend to be super greedy.. Like.. If you aren't rotating IMMEDIATELY! after the enemy team capped far and decap it, someone else will.. Most of the time this means that they leave their team in mid in a disadvantage, lose the team fight and guess what happens next? They sit on far alone and get zerged by 2 or 3 guys while your mates respawn.. Needless to say they lose map control completely. I've lost countless matches because of exactly 1 guy constantly forcing the third node we haven't capped. If they just stood with their team most of those matches would've been easy wins.. On another note: Even tho I'm playing as a roamer I've experienced way better success if I support my team in winning the team fights instead of going for the decap immediately. Even if I'm bound in mid or close most of the time because this may allow another team mate to go straight for a decap after respawning for example while equalizing a team fight and not lose map control. I know I've focused a lot on far in this example but same is true for close. It's a bit harder to hold far due to shorter respawn paths but you can also just play mid+far and let them hold close. Of course punish it asap if the support actually supports the team and leaves the node. But having map control is way more important than having a tripple cap or a neutral third node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Zerk guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I mean, this right here is why PvP was always doomed to failure. The basic concept of _"don't waste time into a bunker on an owned node, and instead go and gain a 5v4 on the other 2 nodes"_ is simply too much for 90% of the people who try the game. Should've designed a game where there is 1 class with only 1 button, and you spawn directly next to an enemy where you can both press your 1 button. Fastest button pressing wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 An MM Scourge. MM Scourge walks over supports by corrupting their boons and killing them with Minion chip damage, Condi and Death Nova spam. If the Scourge is using Feed from Corruption, they can even Steal those boons they have corrupted or removed for their own use. > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > Should've designed a game where there is 1 class with only 1 button, and you spawn directly next to an enemy where you can both press your 1 button. Fastest button pressing wins. We were there with burst meta. We moved away from it after the damage nerfs. We are now moving toward a meta of just staring at each other waiting for them to DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 only issue Ive come across is: bunker remains on node and the enemy is outnumbered mid, but they focus well enough against our team and the guy we sent to get the first point goes to battle the bunker, making mid equal and when some people don't cooperate in your team, everyone dies. Once the enemy has the point advantage it's very difficult to turn it around with 2 nodes (mid being a warzone etc.) Just wanted to share my stuff. Last year I was a lot into pvp. this year im more addicted to wvw so my opinion doesn't rly matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Well, a "support" is supposed to be good at either boon, healing or both. Anything with a good rate of boon removal and a bit of poison should be able to take down a true bonafid "support". Necromancer is probably the most qualified to counter "supports". Revenant and thief have the option to build for it. In a more limited way, Spellbreaker and mesmer's design place them as a semi counter for "support" specs. Now, players have to be willing to build for it in order to counter "support" and that's the hardest part, because while you'll be able to counter them, it doesn't mean you'll be able to fare well against other kind of builds. It almost feel like there is a kind of "balance" shenanigan involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 There are builds that can kill support tempest 1v1. And that is a large part of why tempest has been phased out of the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > I mean, this right here is why PvP was always doomed to failure. > > The basic concept of _"don't waste time into a bunker on an owned node, and instead go and gain a 5v4 on the other 2 nodes"_ is simply too much for 90% of the people who try the game. > > Should've designed a game where there is 1 class with only 1 button, and you spawn directly next to an enemy where you can both press your 1 button. Fastest button pressing wins. You'd still find people who would claim that their base respawn time takes too long or something similar ......to explain their defeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave.6819 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 U guys still pvp in this game? Dang.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > An MM Scourge. > MM Scourge walks over supports by corrupting their boons and killing them with Minion chip damage, Condi and Death Nova spam. > > If the Scourge is using Feed from Corruption, they can even Steal those boons they have corrupted or removed for their own use. > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > Should've designed a game where there is 1 class with only 1 button, and you spawn directly next to an enemy where you can both press your 1 button. Fastest button pressing wins. > > We were there with burst meta. > We moved away from it after the damage nerfs. > We are now moving toward a meta of just staring at each other waiting for them to DC. -People were crying where we had burst meta : they were crying that specs like **FA weaver, hammer burst DH, variants of thief, Power mirage mantra...etc etc etc etc** -Now the same people are crying that specs like **insert meta or so bunker/tank** is too tanky blah blah blah I realize now that no matter what...people will cry and everything except their chosen class, can't be allowed to burst or tank. I just don't get it...I can take guardian as example.....people were crying wolf tears when players were using hammer burst.....unfair build.......then guardian players started to play mender dh/core....people were crying wolf tears....unfair build...now guardian players play burning builds......people are crying wolf tears once again. I can make a similar example for every single class.....what do you want hear about? ele? -Players use FA weaver.....people were crying wolf tears...unfair build...QQ...insta dmg..QQ -Players use LR weaver.....people were crying wolf tears......unfair build...QQ....too much CC...QQ -Players use Mender weaver/tempest.......people were crying wolf tears......unfair build..QQ....too much sustain....QQ No matter what.....**this playerbase only cries wolf** and it's not about asking to tone down overachieving builds, something reasonable individuals do....NO.....this playerbase will keep crying for nerfs till the object of their hatred is completely and utterly out of the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. A support sitting alone on node gets the same value as a dedicated side noder. Difference being if the fight scales up as players rotate in, support gains way more value by not being a selfish tank spec (aka side noder). So the point is is that supports simply have much more value than any sort of dueling focused sidenoder currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. > > A support sitting alone on node gets the same value as a dedicated side noder. Difference being if the fight scales up as players rotate in, support gains way more value by not being a selfish tank spec (aka side noder). So the point is is that supports simply have much more value than any sort of dueling focused sidenoder currently. That's only true if the 'support' already owns the node. They can hold a node they already own, but there's no way they can take a node from an enemy if its contested. Whereas a dedicated side-noder can actually take nodes. And, moreover, a dedicated duelist can pressure an opponent, force cooldowns, and leave the opponent vulnerable to a +1, whereas a support will apply zero pressure. Claiming that supports have the exact same side-noding capability as actual side-noders is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrownyClown.8402 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Boon rip Unblockable Hybrid damage Out-rotate The real question is why a team with a support vs a team without one almost always wins the match. They prob arent doing the above solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchme.1097 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I think it's safe to say that presenting an argument over a 1vs1 comparison is not valid because there are no pvp modes where you are limited to face only 1 opponent. The game wouldn't be balanced if you could play a 1 Meta build who beats everything else because everyone would play it. It's still possible to burst a support in PvP, including bunkers. You can doublecheck yourself by watching streamers like Phantaram or Cellofrag who play self sustain builds, they are not immortal at all. These builds don't excel at anything in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > Boon rip > Unblockable > Hybrid damage > Out-rotate > > The real question is why a team with a support vs a team without one almost always wins the match. They prob arent doing the above solutions. The vast majority plays a single profession **and not even to its full extent** ......such an outcome would be expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Salazar.5430 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Support insted of doing dmg, focus on boon your team, condi clease, and heal Schold you able to kill support 1vs1? -> Definitly not!, and if yes definitly you need put more effore Killing support count much more then killing dps, as killing support, enemy dps will do less dmg, you will do more dmg to him, and easly burn him with condi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 IMO killing support 1v1 shouldnt be a thing unless they suck, but side-noders should be able to force the supports to kite away within reasonable time. to top it off such " supports " cant do anything when they get decapped. they sure as hell are not going to kill YOU. if its their node, pressure enought to decap them, or get +1 and fully cap. if the node is yours just sit 1v1 and get a free point advantage for your team since you cant die to support and most if not all roamers at best will be able to push you off. there is a reason why supports dont play sides, and inability to do anything to capped enemy node is mainly the reason. Shit like decap druid/scrapper on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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